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#51
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Small Time Terrorists destroy Parisian Utopian Bike Program
On Nov 13, 2:30 pm, dgk wrote:
snip I think, as things worsen in the USA, you may get to live under real facism. I sincerely hope not. You mean you don't think we are already in a fascist state? The seeds for fascism were sown back in the 19th century in the US when corporations were upgraded to people status, then heavily fertilized when money was given the status of speech in political races in the late 20th century. |
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#52
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Small Time Terrorists destroy Parisian Utopian Bike Program
On Nov 13, 9:30*am, dgk wrote:
Well, you nailed one point. Communism doesn't work because it requires that people work for the benefit of the whole. Most people are far too selfish for that approach to work. Facism however is the extreme end of capitalism with the state controlled by corporations. Ultra-right as opposed to ultra-left. Now, see, that makes perfect sense: under communism, the state as a proxy for the people controls all means of production. Under fascism the state as a proxy for the corp- orations controls all means of production. And since it is illegal for corporations to have human ownership there is created a perfect distinction between the two systems. & since we have defined these two as the extremes, I sup- pose anarcho-socialism, absolute monarchy, & Bread & Circuses Oligarchy are all moderate systems, right? |
#53
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Small Time Terrorists destroy Parisian Utopian Bike Program
Per Opus:
You mean you don't think we are already in a fascist state? The seeds for fascism were sown back in the 19th century in the US when corporations were upgraded to people status, then heavily fertilized when money was given the status of speech in political races in the late 20th century. Seems to me that, in the absence of some countervailing power, it's inevitable. If there's such a thing as natural laws of power, one of them is that power tends to coalesce/concentrate. Kind of the opposite of the universe's tendency towards entropy. Bigger corporations can buy more legislators more easily - and then get them to change the laws to allow yet bigger corporations. Yeah, industry associations can exert influence too.... but it seems to me like getting the best laws that money can buy becomes more efficient the few players there are. -- PeteCresswell |
#54
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Small Time Terrorists destroy Parisian Utopian Bike Program
dgk wrote:
Well, you nailed one point. Communism doesn't work because it requires that people work for the benefit of the whole. Most people are far too selfish for that approach to work. Facism however is the extreme end of capitalism with the state controlled by corporations. Ultra-right as opposed to ultra-left. Norman wrote: Now, see, that makes perfect sense: under communism, the state as a proxy for the people controls all means of production. Under fascism the state as a proxy for the corp- orations controls all means of production. And since it is illegal for corporations to have human ownership there is created a perfect distinction between the two systems. & since we have defined these two as the extremes, I sup- pose anarcho-socialism, absolute monarchy, & Bread & Circuses Oligarchy are all moderate systems, right? From Bert Penn: "Under capitalism, it's man against man. Under communism it's the other way around!" -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#55
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Small Time Terrorists destroy Parisian Utopian Bike Program
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per Opus: You mean you don't think we are already in a fascist state? The seeds for fascism were sown back in the 19th century in the US when corporations were upgraded to people status, then heavily fertilized when money was given the status of speech in political races in the late 20th century. Seems to me that, in the absence of some countervailing power, it's inevitable. If there's such a thing as natural laws of power, one of them is that power tends to coalesce/concentrate. Kind of the opposite of the universe's tendency towards entropy. Bigger corporations can buy more legislators more easily - and then get them to change the laws to allow yet bigger corporations. Yeah, industry associations can exert influence too.... but it seems to me like getting the best laws that money can buy becomes more efficient the few players there are. Since you bring SEIU into it, does Stern ride a bike at all? -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#56
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Small Time Terrorists destroy Parisian Utopian Bike Program
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:10:23 -0800 (PST), Norman
wrote: On Nov 13, 9:30*am, dgk wrote: Well, you nailed one point. Communism doesn't work because it requires that people work for the benefit of the whole. Most people are far too selfish for that approach to work. Facism however is the extreme end of capitalism with the state controlled by corporations. Ultra-right as opposed to ultra-left. Now, see, that makes perfect sense: under communism, the state as a proxy for the people controls all means of production. Under fascism the state as a proxy for the corp- orations controls all means of production. And since it is illegal for corporations to have human ownership there is created a perfect distinction between the two systems. & since we have defined these two as the extremes, I sup- pose anarcho-socialism, absolute monarchy, & Bread & Circuses Oligarchy are all moderate systems, right? It's illegal for corporations to have human ownership? |
#57
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Small Time Terrorists destroy Parisian Utopian Bike Program
On Nov 13, 3:35*pm, dgk wrote:
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:10:23 -0800 (PST), Norman wrote: On Nov 13, 9:30*am, dgk wrote: Well, you nailed one point. Communism doesn't work because it requires that people work for the benefit of the whole. Most people are far too selfish for that approach to work. Facism however is the extreme end of capitalism with the state controlled by corporations. Ultra-right as opposed to ultra-left. Now, see, that makes perfect sense: *under communism, the state as a proxy for the people controls all means of production. *Under fascism the state as a proxy for the corp- orations controls all means of production. *And since it is illegal for corporations to have human ownership there is created a perfect distinction between the two systems. *& since we have defined these two as the extremes, I sup- pose anarcho-socialism, absolute monarchy, & Bread & Circuses Oligarchy are all moderate systems, right? It's illegal for corporations to have human ownership? Yes, & that is why corporations influencing government is nothing at all like people acting in concert influencing government. By the way, my favourite hobby is trying to nail jello to the wall. How about you? |
#58
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Small Time Terrorists destroy Parisian Utopian Bike Program
Per AMuzi:
Since you bring SEIU into it, does Stern ride a bike at all? That one went right over my head. Service Employees International Union? Howard Stern? Don't think so.... -) But what/who? -- PeteCresswell |
#59
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Small Time Terrorists destroy Parisian Utopian Bike Program
"dgk" wrote in message ... On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:24:05 -0600, "Edward Dolan" wrote: "dgk" wrote in message . .. [...] But, but, let's just say, just suppose. that a commie pinko actually did win a democratic election. Can we then nulify the election because the capitalist lost? What is this animus against capitalism? All that will ever happen to you under capitalism is that you may starve to death. Under most other forms of governance, you will be quashed like a bug if you dissent in the slightest. Yes, I know, capitalism is merely a form of an economic arrangement, but it insures that you will at least be free. Most socialisms will not allow you to be free. They may or may not feed you, but you will either tow the line or you will be killed. Communism simply doesn't work. It has been tried over and over under every imaginable kind of people, and it simply doesn't work. Why? Because of human nature. Alas, if you want communism to work, you will have to redesign the human species from the genes on up. Sorry DGK, but Marx, Lenin and Stalin were all wrong. If I had to choose between fascism and communism, I would choose fascism. But they were both ideologies of the left and straight from the Devil Himself! Well, you nailed one point. Communism doesn't work because it requires that people work for the benefit of the whole. Most people are far too selfish for that approach to work. Facism however is the extreme end of capitalism with the state controlled by corporations. Ultra-right as opposed to ultra-left. As I recall, Communism was to evolve in an industrialized nation like ours, not a backwards agrarian state like Russia. I think, as things worsen in the USA, you may get to live under real facism. I sincerely hope not. Fascism belongs to the left just as surely as does communism. Hitler came to power under the auspices of the Nazis', a form of socialism. Ideologies of the right began with the divine right of kings, not with republican forms of governance. This is best represented by Louis XIV of France, also known as the Sun King. Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Part of the Politics series on Nazism Organizations[show] National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP) Sturmabteilung (SA) Schutzstaffel (SS) Hitler Youth (HJ) NSRL History[show] Early timeline Hitler's rise to power German re-armament Nazi Germany Religion in Nazi Germany Night of the Long Knives Nuremberg Rallies Kristallnacht The Holocaust Nuremberg Trials Ex-Nazis · Neo-Nazism Ideology (non-racial)[show] Heim ins Reich Gleichschaltung Hitler's political beliefs National Socialist Program Third Position Religious aspects Propaganda Architecture Mein Kampf Racial ideology[show] Racial policy of Nazi Germany Blood and soil Nazi eugenics Doctors' Trial Nazi physicians Human experimentation Nuremberg Trials Aryan race People[show] Adolf Hitler Heinrich Himmler Joseph Goebbels Hermann Göring Beyond Germany[show] Canadian National Socialist Unity Party German American Bund American Nazi Party National Socialist Movement (US) Hungarian National Socialist Party Arrow Cross Party (Hungary) Nasjonal Samling (Norway) Nationaal-Socialistische Beweging (Netherlands) National Socialist Bloc (Sweden) National Movement of Switzerland (NBS) National Socialist League (UK) National Socialist Workers' Party of Denmark Ossewabrandwag (South Africa) Ustasa - Croatian Revolutionary Movement (Independent State of Croatia) Lists[show] Nazi Party leaders and officials Nazi Party members Books by or about Adolf Hitler Nazi ideologues Speeches given by Adolf Hitler SS personnel Living Nazis Former Nazis influential after 1945 Related topics[show] Glossary of Nazi Germany National Socialism Neo-Nazism Strasserism Esoteric Nazism Völkisch movement Politics portal v . d . e Nazism, known officially in German as National Socialism[1][2][3][4] (German: Nationalsozialismus), is the totalitarian ideology and practices of the Nazi Party or National Socialist German Workers' Party under Adolf Hitler, and the policies adopted by the dictatorial government of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945.[5][6][7][8] Nazism is often considered by scholars to be a form of fascism. While it incorporated elements from both left and right-wing politics, the Nazis formed most of their alliances on the right.[9] The Nazis were one of several historical groups that used the term National Socialism to describe themselves, and in the 1920s they became the largest such group. The Nazi Party presented its program in the 25 point National Socialist Program in 1920. Among the key elements of Nazism were anti-parliamentarism, Pan-Germanism, racism, collectivism,[10][11] eugenics, antisemitism, anti-communism, totalitarianism and opposition to economic liberalism and political liberalism.[11][12][13] In the 1930s, Nazism was not a monolithic movement, but rather a (mainly German) combination of various ideologies and philosophies which centered around nationalism, anti-communism, traditionalism and the importance of the ethnostate. Groups such as Strasserism and Black Front were part of the early Nazi movement. Their motivations were triggered over anger about the Treaty of Versailles, and what they considered to have been a Jewish/communist conspiracy to humiliate Germany at the end of the World War I. Germany's post-war ills were critical to the formation of the ideology and its criticisms of the post-war Weimar Republic. The Nazi Party came to power in Germany in 1933. In response to the instability created by the Great Depression, the Nazis sought a Third Way managed economy that was neither capitalism nor communism.[14][15] Nazi rule effectively ended on May 7, 1945, V-E Day, when the Nazis unconditionally surrendered to the Allied Powers, who took over Germany's administration until Germany could form its own democratic government. |
#60
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Small Time Terrorists destroy Parisian Utopian Bike Program
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per AMuzi: Since you bring SEIU into it, does Stern ride a bike at all? That one went right over my head. Service Employees International Union? Howard Stern? Don't think so.... -) But what/who? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Stern. -- Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007 I am a vehicular cyclist. |
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