Carbo loading before a race?

curt wrote:
::: Actually, for cycling, going stupid on the carb like a PL will just
::: get you water logged and make you heavier for your ride (assuming
::: you were LCing before hand). IMO, it is better to consume carbs
::: right before and during your ride, you can you burn them as they
::: land and avoid water logging.
::
:: Generally Roger I would agree, from what we have read and maybe your
:: own experiences. I will say, I don't retain water if I eat carbs
:: for a day. I don't go out and eat a whole pizza....well usually
:: not, but I don't seem to have that effect of retaining water. Not
:: sure why.

Well, I generally weight train and do strict low-carb and get all glycogen
depleted...so when I carb up, I go carb stupid...not just eating a pizza,
many many carbs...and when I do, I can gain 10 lbs in at two days...I did
that last weekend...went out for a 41-mile ride, and could tell straight off
that I was carrying extra weight...for bicycling, that's not good. Of
course, those carbs helped me because I didn't have low blood glucose
aftwards (see below).

::
:: I really think carb loading may work for some people and eating
:: carbs while riding works for some and whatever. You really need to
:: do things and find what works for you as an individual. I think
:: most people should eat some carbs if they are going to do a longer
:: ride. I road 45 miles today and am on low carb and did okay today.
:: I was cranky at the end. I could have used a Cliff bar or something.

Well, you can eat carbs or not...but the point about carb loading, and where
it really makes sense, is if you plan to exercise intensely...so, for a
race, carbing up makes sense...for an endurance event like riding 45 miles,
extra carbs MAY not be necessary. In my case, I was experiencing low blood
glucose after my rides, so I've started trying to increase carbs. So, this
morning, I had 40g of carbs before my ride...that seemed to help. I'm going
to try to increase carbs just on the day of the ride and NOT do major
weight-lifting style carb ups for bicycling...

::
:: I tend to eat sushi the night before and eat protein and some carbs
:: for breakfast and I like a banana or a Cliff bar or something while
:: I ride. I don't like to eat too much while riding however.

That sounds very reasonable to me....and if it works for you, I'd certainly
suggest you keep doing it.
I need to see what a Cliff bar is...that might be good for me once I get
over 50-miles.

In article ,
"Roger Zoul" wrote:

Actually, for cycling, going stupid on the carb like a PL will just get you
water logged and make you heavier for your ride (assuming you were LCing
before hand). IMO, it is better to consume carbs right before and during
your ride, you can you burn them as they land and avoid water logging.

Carbo loading works for multi-hour endurance events, there are
studies to back it up:

"It's reasonably clear that a high-fat diet followed by carbohydrate
loading is better than a high-carbohydrate diet for
ultra-endurance.* In a crossover study (#291), seven competitive
cyclists had either 6 d of high fat and 1 d of high carbohydrate or
7 d of high carbohydrate.* On fat with carbo-loading they went 5%
further (equivalent to an 11% increase in mean power) in a 1-h time
trial on a cycle ergometer after 4 h at moderate intensity. The
conditions (breakfast, supplements, exercise intensities) were more
realistic than in previous studies, and a P value of 0.11 for the
effect is equivalent to chances of 94.5% that the true effect was
positive. The mechanism?* Probably glycogen sparing resulting from
fat adaptation, coupled with the extra glycogen from the day of
carbo-loading, because oxidation of fat during the performance test
was still high after fat with carbo-loading (#292)."
-- Athletic Performance at the 2001 ACSM Meeting

--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
In Excelsis Escendo

In article ,
"Roger Zoul" wrote:

Actually, for cycling, going stupid on the carb like a PL will just get you
water logged and make you heavier for your ride (assuming you were LCing
before hand). IMO, it is better to consume carbs right before and during
your ride, you can you burn them as they land and avoid water logging.

Carbo loading works for multi-hour endurance events, there are
studies to back it up:

"It's reasonably clear that a high-fat diet followed by carbohydrate
loading is better than a high-carbohydrate diet for
ultra-endurance.* In a crossover study (#291), seven competitive
cyclists had either 6 d of high fat and 1 d of high carbohydrate or
7 d of high carbohydrate.* On fat with carbo-loading they went 5%
further (equivalent to an 11% increase in mean power) in a 1-h time
trial on a cycle ergometer after 4 h at moderate intensity. The
conditions (breakfast, supplements, exercise intensities) were more
realistic than in previous studies, and a P value of 0.11 for the
effect is equivalent to chances of 94.5% that the true effect was
positive. The mechanism?* Probably glycogen sparing resulting from
fat adaptation, coupled with the extra glycogen from the day of
carbo-loading, because oxidation of fat during the performance test
was still high after fat with carbo-loading (#292)."
-- Athletic Performance at the 2001 ACSM Meeting

--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
In Excelsis Escendo

DRS wrote:
:: "Rick Onanian" wrote in message
::
::: On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:28:55 GMT, "carbo_jim"
::: wrote:
:::: It is a know fact that carbs are poisonous to humans, hence the
:::: atkins revolution.
:::
::: This propaganda is unfortunately foisted on those whose ignorance
::: will allow it.
:::
::: Carbohydrates are a necessary part of a healthy diet.
::
:: Complex carbohydrates are a necesary part of a healthy diet. It's
:: possible to live quite well without simple sugars.
::
::: An unhealthy
::: diet that's missing important parts can cause weight loss, which is
::: why no-carb or no-[protein+fat+whatever] diets can result in lost
::: weight.
::
:: Er, no. Weight loss only occurs when energy out energy in. The
:: reason Atkins and similar diets work is primarily because high
:: protein diets suppress appetite more than other kinds, so even
:: though people are theoretically allowed to eat as much as they want
:: (within reason) they simply end up reducing their calorific intake
:: below their maintenance levels naturally.

Atkins is not a high protein diet...it is a high fat diet. The lack of
carbs is what suppresses appetite, not protein.

Terry Morse wrote:
:: In article ,
:: "Roger Zoul" wrote:
::
::: Actually, for cycling, going stupid on the carb like a PL will just
::: get you water logged and make you heavier for your ride (assuming
::: you were LCing before hand). IMO, it is better to consume carbs
::: right before and during your ride, you can you burn them as they
::: land and avoid water logging.
::
:: Carbo loading works for multi-hour endurance events, there are
:: studies to back it up:

Your study is talking about greater intensity, which is what I'm talking
about. If you're racing or trying to finish faster, then carbs help. If
you're not concerned about time, then you don't necessarily need those
carbs...

::
:: "It's reasonably clear that a high-fat diet followed by carbohydrate
:: loading is better than a high-carbohydrate diet for
:: ultra-endurance. In a crossover study (#291), seven competitive
:: cyclists had either 6 d of high fat and 1 d of high carbohydrate or
:: 7 d of high carbohydrate. On fat with carbo-loading they went 5%
:: further (equivalent to an 11% increase in mean power) in a 1-h time
:: trial on a cycle ergometer after 4 h at moderate intensity. The
:: conditions (breakfast, supplements, exercise intensities) were more
:: realistic than in previous studies, and a P value of 0.11 for the
:: effect is equivalent to chances of 94.5% that the true effect was
:: positive. The mechanism? Probably glycogen sparing resulting from
:: fat adaptation, coupled with the extra glycogen from the day of
:: carbo-loading, because oxidation of fat during the performance test
:: was still high after fat with carbo-loading (#292)."
:: -- Athletic Performance at the 2001 ACSM Meeting
::
:: --
:: terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
:: In Excelsis Escendo

Terry Morse wrote:
:: Rick Onanian wrote:
::
::: Carbohydrates are a necessary part of a healthy diet. An unhealthy
::: diet that's missing important parts can cause weight loss, which is
::: why no-carb or no-[protein+fat+whatever] diets can result in lost
::: weight.
::
:: Actually, the no-carb, etc. diets result in lost weight because they
:: reduce the number of calories a person eats daily. Any weight loss
:: diet is essentially a gimmick to get you to eat fewer calories.

Not a gimmick....also, the diets aren't no-carb...

:: --
:: terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

Roger Zoul wrote:

Your study is talking about greater intensity, which is what I'm talking
about. If you're racing or trying to finish faster, then carbs help. If
you're not concerned about time, then you don't necessarily need those
carbs...

If it's a long duration event, you still should be concerned about
carbs. Muscle glycogen depletion is an issue on any long ride, even
rides done at moderate intensity. Run out of glycogen on a long
ride, and you'll know it.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
In Excelsis Escendo

Roger Zoul wrote:

Terry Morse wrote:
::
:: Actually, the no-carb, etc. diets result in lost weight because they
:: reduce the number of calories a person eats daily. Any weight loss
:: diet is essentially a gimmick to get you to eat fewer calories.

Not a gimmick....also, the diets aren't no-carb...

Yes, a gimmick. All diets are ruses to get people to reduce their
calorie intake. It doesn't matter what the diet is called: no-carb,
low-carb, low-fat, asparagus, Pritiken, Atkins, South Beach. Nor
does it matter what types of food you eat. If you reduce your
calorie intake, you lose weight. Plain and simple, even if the $40
billion diet industry wants you to think otherwise.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
In Excelsis Escendo

Terry Morse wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::
::: Your study is talking about greater intensity, which is what I'm
::: talking about. If you're racing or trying to finish faster, then
::: carbs help. If you're not concerned about time, then you don't
::: necessarily need those carbs...
::
:: If it's a long duration event, you still should be concerned about
:: carbs. Muscle glycogen depletion is an issue on any long ride, even
:: rides done at moderate intensity. Run out of glycogen on a long
:: ride, and you'll know it.

Sure....but if the intensity is not huge, and you take some carbs as you
ride, you can complete. There are people here who do centurys on
LC....we're talking about carb loading...if you're not doing a LC diet,
you'll likely not even need carb loading if you rarely go anerobic during
your ride....if you're doing a LC diet, the chances are greater, of
course...and if you want to finish a long ride with a good time -- a
personal best -- then you might have to push it, then pre-event carb loading
along with carbs while riding would be a very good idea....since your
intensity would have to be greater during the course of a ride.

The bottom line is that the greater intensity you expect, the greater the
impact carb loading will have, especially if you eat a LC diet...

Terry Morse wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::
::: Terry Morse wrote:
:::::
::::: Actually, the no-carb, etc. diets result in lost weight because
::::: they reduce the number of calories a person eats daily. Any
::::: weight loss diet is essentially a gimmick to get you to eat fewer
::::: calories.
:::
::: Not a gimmick....also, the diets aren't no-carb...
::
:: Yes, a gimmick. All diets are ruses to get people to reduce their
:: calorie intake. It doesn't matter what the diet is called: no-carb,
:: low-carb, low-fat, asparagus, Pritiken, Atkins, South Beach. Nor
:: does it matter what types of food you eat. If you reduce your
:: calorie intake, you lose weight. Plain and simple, even if the $40
:: billion diet industry wants you to think otherwise.

How is eating to normalize blood sugar swings a ruse or a gimmick? Do you
know what these words mean?

www.dictionary.com is your friend...


:: --
:: terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
:: In Excelsis Escendo