recumbent frustration

In article , says...
I recently purchased my first recumbent - a Lightning Phantom - after
riding a Bianchi upright for several years. I bought it for comfort
and speed. I took this recumbent on a 1600 mile tour of the
Mississippi River from New Orleans to St. Paul. It was a great ride,
but it was frustrating in the sense that I could not keep up with my
friend who owns a Bianchi upright.
Oh my! Where to start?

Theory 1:
I would think that 1600 mi would condition you to recumbents. Maybe it was 1600 miles too soon
and too fast. Your body has to develop the bent muscles to be effective. Maybe 400 miles in a
month with suficient time for rest and recovery in between rides would be enough. So, it could
just be the 1600 miles all at once and at the front of your bent training.

Theory 2:
Does this Phantom have a 16" front wheel? I started my P-38 with a 16" wheel and was
dissappointed since it was not any faster than my then year old LWB RANS Stratus. Still I was
faster on either recumbent than on a DF by about 2 mph. My 16"fork gave me problems. If it had
it tight enough to hold the wheel on, then the fork squeezed the cones and increased friction
on the front wheel. Could that be a problem? How freely does the front wheel spin?
After I switched to a 406 front wheel and fork, my speed improved too.

Theory 3:
What was your cadence? You really have to learn to spin on a recumbent. If you are a 'Masher'
by nature (I am) you will blow the knees quickly. In addition to spinning, you need to fine
tune the seat to pedal distance. a change of 1/4" can make a big difference. What kind of
pedal retention system doe you use? I use Eggbeaters and recommend them Other like Speedplay
frogs. Before the Eggbeaters, I used SPDs. With the SPDs, foot position is critical to a pain
free knee. When I switched to the Eggbeaters, I had two weeks of knee pain. It healed, my knees
adjusted to the new pedals and I have been pain free since (A daily dose of Glucosamine helps
too.)

Theory 4:
Look for wear on the drive side idler Some wear the rubber 'O' ring and notch the inside of
pulley. I have replaced mine 4 times since I got it. Do you have a 'Quick Size kit'
installed? The more convoluted the chain, the less efficient it is.

Theory 5:
Tires. Wider tires don't help. Primos might be OK for rolling resistance but only if they are
narrow. 37mm tires will hurt more than help. City Jets might not be as speedy as Primos.
Something else to consider.

It took me 6 months before I was fast and comfortable on a LWB RANS Stratus. With in the first
month I was fast on the LWB than any DF I had previously. Plus I could ride 40 miles instead of
15 without stopping to rest my butt. My Lightning P-38 took me two years before I was really
fast. That did not happen until I started practicing spinning. Drop a gear down and add 15-20
revs to the cadence.


The first 2 days were fine, but by
about the third day, my knees were killing me. I think I had my seat
to far forward so I moved the seat back. That fixed that problem, but
then I found that my legs tired much quicker on the recumbent than my
friends on the upright. I knew my friend would be faster on the
hills, but towards the end of the ride which was fairly flat, I could
only maintain average speeds of around 15mph while my friend was
maintaining averages of 17-19. When we both had uprights, we easily
maintained averages of 18-19 and if we drafted off one another, we
could maintain 20-21 averages. After this experience, I feel like
going back to an upright. Is what I experienced typical of first-time
recumbent experiences? Will I become as fast on a recumbent as an
upright. I'm thinking of trading in the Phantom for a Strada and
doing one more ride with my upright friend, and if I can't keep up on
the Strada, I think I'll probably return to an upright. Recumbents
seem less efficient to me with longer chain and heavier frames. When
I was able to keep up with my upright friend, I had to work much
harder and could only maintain it for 5-7 miles.

Even with longer chain and heavier bike, recumbents are well established (by me every Saturday)
as being faster than DFs. Remember above 15 mph, (IIRC) over 80% of the energy spent is
overcoming wind resistance. Recently this composite picture was posted. It illustrates quite
well the aerodynamic benefits of a recumbent. Your closed seat position Phantom will fit
somewhere between the Big Wheel bent and the AeroBar DF.

http://www.hostelshoppe.com/images/tech/df_vs_volae.jpg
--

Cletus D. Lee
Bacchetta Giro
Lightning Voyager
http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

Cletus Lee wrote:
In addition to spinning, you need to fine tune the
seat to pedal distance. a change of 1/4" can make a big difference.

This has always bothered me. On my V-Rex seat, my butt slides all over the
place. I'd say there's at least 1", probably more like 2" of travel while
I ride. How can I fine-tune the seat/pedal distance by 1/4" if my "seat"
is moving 1-2" all the time??

Gary

Cletus Lee wrote:
In addition to spinning, you need to fine tune the
seat to pedal distance. a change of 1/4" can make a big difference.

This has always bothered me. On my V-Rex seat, my butt slides all over the
place. I'd say there's at least 1", probably more like 2" of travel while
I ride. How can I fine-tune the seat/pedal distance by 1/4" if my "seat"
is moving 1-2" all the time??

Gary

(johlde) wrote in message . com...
I recently purchased my first recumbent - a Lightning Phantom - after
riding a Bianchi upright for several years. I bought it for comfort
and speed. I took this recumbent on a 1600 mile tour of the
Mississippi River from New Orleans to St. Paul.

Sounds like Too Much, Too Soon.

It takes as long to get your "bent" muscles and nerve synapses working
for top performance as it did to get your "unbent" muscles and nerves
working together.

I am just now beginning to approach my times on my Trek 1500 after 2.5
years on the Barcroft Dakota and now a GRR. I am still improving with
each passing week.

160 ten mile rides will probably yield more improvement than one 1600
mile ride.
Nerve/muscle coordination is learned slowly. After a ten mile ride
your brain is still sorting what just happened for hours afterward.
If those rides are 24 to 48 hours apart you have spent about 6 or 7
months internalizing your "bent" nerve/muscle activity and the act of
riding becomes more automatic, just as it was on the DF.

160 sixteen hundred mile rides should make you AWESOME!!!!!! ;-)

Jerry

(johlde) wrote in message . com...
I recently purchased my first recumbent - a Lightning Phantom - after
riding a Bianchi upright for several years. I bought it for comfort
and speed. I took this recumbent on a 1600 mile tour of the
Mississippi River from New Orleans to St. Paul.

Sounds like Too Much, Too Soon.

It takes as long to get your "bent" muscles and nerve synapses working
for top performance as it did to get your "unbent" muscles and nerves
working together.

I am just now beginning to approach my times on my Trek 1500 after 2.5
years on the Barcroft Dakota and now a GRR. I am still improving with
each passing week.

160 ten mile rides will probably yield more improvement than one 1600
mile ride.
Nerve/muscle coordination is learned slowly. After a ten mile ride
your brain is still sorting what just happened for hours afterward.
If those rides are 24 to 48 hours apart you have spent about 6 or 7
months internalizing your "bent" nerve/muscle activity and the act of
riding becomes more automatic, just as it was on the DF.

160 sixteen hundred mile rides should make you AWESOME!!!!!! ;-)

Jerry

Patience pilgrim. How many miles did you have on the Phantom before
you started your tour? Also do a search of crank length. Your crank
needs on the Phantom may be different from the Bianchi. What tires are
you using?

I sense too much impatience. You talk about getting a Strada (yes, it
will be faster than the Phantom) and doing one more ride with your
friend. If you can't keep up then good by bents. It takes a little
longer than that. If you want to suffer go back to DFs. If you want
to make your friend suffer then stick with a good bent long enough to
develop the muscles and technique.

I know it is frustrating when you can not keep up with people you want
to ride with. I know that one very well. But that may indeed be the
case--temporarily. You can work through it.

Don't give up. Good luck,

Don (Does not the butterfly fly with the wind?)

Patience pilgrim. How many miles did you have on the Phantom before
you started your tour? Also do a search of crank length. Your crank
needs on the Phantom may be different from the Bianchi. What tires are
you using?

I sense too much impatience. You talk about getting a Strada (yes, it
will be faster than the Phantom) and doing one more ride with your
friend. If you can't keep up then good by bents. It takes a little
longer than that. If you want to suffer go back to DFs. If you want
to make your friend suffer then stick with a good bent long enough to
develop the muscles and technique.

I know it is frustrating when you can not keep up with people you want
to ride with. I know that one very well. But that may indeed be the
case--temporarily. You can work through it.

Don't give up. Good luck,

Don (Does not the butterfly fly with the wind?)

If you buy that Strada, and give up, I'll take it off your hands... ;-)

"Don" wrote in message
om...
Patience pilgrim. How many miles did you have on the Phantom before
you started your tour? Also do a search of crank length. Your crank
needs on the Phantom may be different from the Bianchi. What tires are
you using?

I sense too much impatience. You talk about getting a Strada (yes, it
will be faster than the Phantom) and doing one more ride with your
friend. If you can't keep up then good by bents. It takes a little
longer than that. If you want to suffer go back to DFs. If you want
to make your friend suffer then stick with a good bent long enough to
develop the muscles and technique.

I know it is frustrating when you can not keep up with people you want
to ride with. I know that one very well. But that may indeed be the
case--temporarily. You can work through it.

Don't give up. Good luck,

Don (Does not the butterfly fly with the wind?)

If you buy that Strada, and give up, I'll take it off your hands... ;-)

"Don" wrote in message
om...
Patience pilgrim. How many miles did you have on the Phantom before
you started your tour? Also do a search of crank length. Your crank
needs on the Phantom may be different from the Bianchi. What tires are
you using?

I sense too much impatience. You talk about getting a Strada (yes, it
will be faster than the Phantom) and doing one more ride with your
friend. If you can't keep up then good by bents. It takes a little
longer than that. If you want to suffer go back to DFs. If you want
to make your friend suffer then stick with a good bent long enough to
develop the muscles and technique.

I know it is frustrating when you can not keep up with people you want
to ride with. I know that one very well. But that may indeed be the
case--temporarily. You can work through it.

Don't give up. Good luck,

Don (Does not the butterfly fly with the wind?)

Victor Kan wrote:
Anyway, here's a long reply
that at least tangentially has something to do with the original post :-).

Oh, and in case it wasn't clear, I was making fun of my own post being
only tangetially related to the original post, not what others have
written, all of which pretty much has been directly related to the
original post.


--
I do not accept unsolicted commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for
legitimate replies.