bike lights question - follow up

Wow, there were a LOT of helpful responses to my original question.
Thank you to everyone.

Some asked what the lights in question would be used for... and others
asked what was most important, brightness, price, weight (pick two).

Use - heavy commuting. But, on a mixture of rail trails and busy
intersections. I am SO fortunate to have a rail trail from my office
to my house, but there are sections where it crosses a lot of
commercial driveways. So, I want to see really well on the rail trail,
where it is pitch black, and people walk there at night - so I really
want to make sure that I dont hurt someone by careening into them.
And, when I get into the commercial areas, I want to SCARE drivers.
Not to scare them for its own sake, but I can't believe how many enter
traffic while only looking in one direction (while chatting on the cell
phone). I want to get their attention and protect myself.

Of course, I may wish to take the lights out on the trail too. So, I
dont mind spending a little more to get a fully versatile light.

So, the second question... brightness, price, weight.... Brightness is
above all important. After that, I guess weight - but more accurately
I'd like a nice system for carrying my power. I LOVE the L&M battery -
as it is small and will fit under my stem. But, I'd like to hear from
some unbiased people who have used the system.

As far as price goes, I have gone through two systems that were $50 and
$100 respectively. Although it would hurt to pay $500 for some lights,
if I need to, I will. Lets face it, you only need to avoid one
accident to make it worth it.

So... thank you for all the suggestions, and if anyone has any other
suggestions or advice, I have certainly benefitted from the 27 postings
yesterday, and I will bet that others have as well.
Any other thoughts?

marco007esq wrote:

So... thank you for all the suggestions, and if anyone has any other
suggestions or advice, I have certainly benefitted from the 27
postings yesterday, and I will bet that others have as well.
Any other thoughts?

http://www.lupine.de/en/home/index.php

I ride with the Lupine Edison 10 (review: http://snipurl.com/c2pq). IMO, I
got the light, the beam pattern, the battery burn time, and the light
weight. I paid through the nose, but for me, it was a no-brainer (I have
really lousy vision).

I don't think twice about riding at night, even on wet asphalt (the black
hole of light), or in crowded urban environments.

Good luck!

marco007esq wrote:

Wow, there were a LOT of helpful responses to my original question.
Thank you to everyone.

Some asked what the lights in question would be used for... and others
asked what was most important, brightness, price, weight (pick two).

Use - heavy commuting. But, on a mixture of rail trails and busy
intersections. I am SO fortunate to have a rail trail from my office
to my house, but there are sections where it crosses a lot of
commercial driveways. So, I want to see really well on the rail
trail, where it is pitch black, and people walk there at night - so I
really want to make sure that I dont hurt someone by careening into
them. And, when I get into the commercial areas, I want to SCARE
drivers. Not to scare them for its own sake, but I can't believe how
many enter traffic while only looking in one direction (while
chatting on the cell phone). I want to get their attention and
protect myself.

Of course, I may wish to take the lights out on the trail too. So, I
dont mind spending a little more to get a fully versatile light.

So, the second question... brightness, price, weight.... Brightness
is above all important. After that, I guess weight - but more
accurately I'd like a nice system for carrying my power. I LOVE the
L&M battery - as it is small and will fit under my stem. But, I'd
like to hear from some unbiased people who have used the system.

As far as price goes, I have gone through two systems that were $50
and $100 respectively. Although it would hurt to pay $500 for some
lights, if I need to, I will. Lets face it, you only need to avoid
one accident to make it worth it.

Which systems have you "gone through," and why? Cheaper lead-acid batteries are
better for occasional users, but regular users who don't shelve their systems
for months at a time can benefit from NiMH.

So... thank you for all the suggestions, and if anyone has any other
suggestions or advice, I have certainly benefitted from the 27
postings yesterday, and I will bet that others have as well.
Any other thoughts?

You certainly don't need a super bright, $400 HID system for rail trails or
roads. Plus you'll make a nuisance of yourself by blinding other people. A HID
bike light is brighter than a car headlight, and not as well controlled.
They're great for rocky, rutted trails, but overkill for most riding, plus
really annoying.

If you like the L&M systems and have the bucks they're a great choice. I really
like the one with the focusable head. This makes it useful for both road and
mountain biking. You can widen it for trails, or narrow it and aim it further
down the road for faster road riding. I like the small battery strapped to the
stem as well, although a water bottle battery is quicker to throw in a bag for
shopping, etc. Another system you might look at is the Topeak one that mounts
entirely on top of the stem -- battery and lamp, all in once piece. I don't
know why there aren't more like this, especially with today's compact batteries.
The new L&M Vega looks promising too -- a bright 5W LED system, completely
self-contained. It ought to be fine for commuting and rail-trails.

If you want to "scare" drivers, a dual headlight MTB system is great. Just use
the high beam when crossing danger zones. I rode with a Nightsun XC for years
and it was perfect for this. You can plug in a 35W or even 50W high beam,
because you're only using it for a few seconds at a time, and probably less than
a minute total.

Matt O.

marco007esq wrote:

Wow, there were a LOT of helpful responses to my original question.
Thank you to everyone.

Some asked what the lights in question would be used for... and others
asked what was most important, brightness, price, weight (pick two).

Use - heavy commuting. But, on a mixture of rail trails and busy
intersections. I am SO fortunate to have a rail trail from my office
to my house, but there are sections where it crosses a lot of
commercial driveways. So, I want to see really well on the rail trail,
where it is pitch black, and people walk there at night - so I really
want to make sure that I dont hurt someone by careening into them.
And, when I get into the commercial areas, I want to SCARE drivers.
Not to scare them for its own sake, but I can't believe how many enter
traffic while only looking in one direction (while chatting on the cell
phone). I want to get their attention and protect myself.

Of course, I may wish to take the lights out on the trail too. So, I
dont mind spending a little more to get a fully versatile light.

So, the second question... brightness, price, weight.... Brightness is
above all important. After that, I guess weight - but more accurately
I'd like a nice system for carrying my power. I LOVE the L&M battery -
as it is small and will fit under my stem. But, I'd like to hear from
some unbiased people who have used the system.

As far as price goes, I have gone through two systems that were $50 and
$100 respectively. Although it would hurt to pay $500 for some lights,
if I need to, I will. Lets face it, you only need to avoid one
accident to make it worth it.

I'm curious about how you "went through" those $50 and $100 systems.
Did they break down? Or did they simply not meet your needs? What were
they?



So... thank you for all the suggestions, and if anyone has any other
suggestions or advice, I have certainly benefitted from the 27 postings
yesterday, and I will bet that others have as well.
Any other thoughts?



Rail trails that cross commercial driveways are quite dangerous for
cyclists under any circumstances, and _especially_ so for cyclists
riding counterflow. I assume that's the situation you're referring to
when you talk about motorists entering traffic while looking only one
way. (The only other possibility is if you're in the road riding facing
traffic, and _surely_ you're not doing that!)

You'll never change that motorist behavior. And having a light as
bright as the sun won't matter much to a motorist looking away from it.
I'd say, if you choose to use such a path, you've got to prepare to
cede your right of way at any drive it crosses. Even many motorists who
see you will expect that _they_ have the right of way. (Personally, I
almost always prefer the more predictable environment of the road.)


Having said that, a very good exercise is to get with a biking buddy (or
lacking those, an interested family member) and observe your bike and
its lights when it's ridden at night. The first time I did this, I had
my wife and son in a car. They followed me, passed me, drove by from
the opposing direction, sat at stop signs as I passed them, etc. and
took notes evaluating my visibility. Several times since, I've
organized club outings where we took turns riding each others bikes, and
driving past our own bikes as they were ridden by others.

One thing we've verified over and over: Any light that lights the road
sufficiently is _plenty_ visible to motorists. Try it yourself to see.

Other tips: Reflectors or reflective tape, especially on moving
surfaces, are extremely attention getting. But you must keep them clean
and (in the case of the standard plastic types) be sure they are mounted
straight. Of course, a front reflector does NOT replace a headlight.

Redundancy is good, so a good taillight is a valuable addition to a set
of reflectors. But be aware that, excellent as they are, LED blinkies
are very directional. Don't mount them on floppy fabric; mount them
rigidly to the bike. And keep luggage, etc. from obscuring them.

Finally, you seem set on a super-bright headlight set. That's fine.
But most cyclists who don't _really_ do fast mountain biking at night,
find that much more ordinary bike lights are perfectly fine for commuting.


--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:09:15 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Finally, you seem set on a super-bright headlight set. That's fine.
But most cyclists who don't _really_ do fast mountain biking at night,
find that much more ordinary bike lights are perfectly fine for commuting.

I*agree with the rest of what Frank is saying, but I do think there is a
reason for a very bright headlight. If by "ordinary" you mean lights
powered by a couple of D cells, with maybe a 5-watt halogen bulb, I
disagree. While that might light up the road enough if there are good
streetlights, and an attentive driver might notice you, I find it better
to really be able to light up the road independent of whatever lights the
street has, and I want to get the attention of inattentive drivers.

I had to send my 15-watt nightrider back for repair recently (which they
did for free), and really noticed the difference using just my back-up
light.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Deserves death! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve
_`\(,_ | death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to
(_)/ (_) | them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.
-- J. R. R. Tolkein

Wow, the lupine seems awesome. .. unfortunately the price tag is NOW up
to around $900. Forget that... I was trying to keep it under $500.

But I just want to say thanks to everyone again. What a helpful thread
this has been.

David L. Johnson wrote:

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:09:15 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:


Finally, you seem set on a super-bright headlight set. That's fine.
But most cyclists who don't _really_ do fast mountain biking at night,
find that much more ordinary bike lights are perfectly fine for commuting.


I agree with the rest of what Frank is saying, but I do think there is a
reason for a very bright headlight. If by "ordinary" you mean lights
powered by a couple of D cells, with maybe a 5-watt halogen bulb, I
disagree. While that might light up the road enough if there are good
streetlights, and an attentive driver might notice you, I find it better
to really be able to light up the road independent of whatever lights the
street has, and I want to get the attention of inattentive drivers.

Well, AFAIK most lights powered by flashlight batteries are 1.25 watts.
I, personally, wouldn't be comfortable with just one of those.

OTOH, the most dedicated utility cyclists I know have used only those
for decades, so YMMV. They ride almost exclusively where street
lighting is good, in and around the central city. They set their lights
level, not facing downward - see
http://www.bikexprt.com/streetsmarts/usa/chapter8a.htm

.... and I can vouch that I easily spot them from several blocks away
when driving at night.




--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

I've been using these; very happy with the design and price:

http://www.bicyclelights.com/bikelights.html

--Ed--


On 17 Jan 2005 05:28:56 -0800, "marco007esq"
wrote:

Wow, there were a LOT of helpful responses to my original question.
Thank you to everyone.

Some asked what the lights in question would be used for... and others
asked what was most important, brightness, price, weight (pick two).

Use - heavy commuting. But, on a mixture of rail trails and busy
intersections. I am SO fortunate to have a rail trail from my office
to my house, but there are sections where it crosses a lot of
commercial driveways. So, I want to see really well on the rail trail,
where it is pitch black, and people walk there at night - so I really
want to make sure that I dont hurt someone by careening into them.
And, when I get into the commercial areas, I want to SCARE drivers.
Not to scare them for its own sake, but I can't believe how many enter
traffic while only looking in one direction (while chatting on the cell
phone). I want to get their attention and protect myself.

Of course, I may wish to take the lights out on the trail too. So, I
dont mind spending a little more to get a fully versatile light.

So, the second question... brightness, price, weight.... Brightness is
above all important. After that, I guess weight - but more accurately
I'd like a nice system for carrying my power. I LOVE the L&M battery -
as it is small and will fit under my stem. But, I'd like to hear from
some unbiased people who have used the system.

As far as price goes, I have gone through two systems that were $50 and
$100 respectively. Although it would hurt to pay $500 for some lights,
if I need to, I will. Lets face it, you only need to avoid one
accident to make it worth it.

So... thank you for all the suggestions, and if anyone has any other
suggestions or advice, I have certainly benefitted from the 27 postings
yesterday, and I will bet that others have as well.
Any other thoughts?

Frank Krygowski wrote:

...
One thing we've verified over and over: Any light that lights the road
sufficiently is _plenty_ visible to motorists. Try it yourself to see....

However, if the motorists see a single, not too bright light, many will
think cyclist. Furthermore, they will assume the cyclist is going
slowly, and violate his/her right-of-way.

That is why I would prefer to have enough power to run a really bright
light, so I will be mistaken for a motorcycle moving at automotive
speeds. A light like this should fit the bill [1].

[1]
http://www.hella.com/produktion/HellaPortal/WebSite/Internet_usa/ProductsServices/Images/MicroDEXenon.gif.

--
Tom Sherman - Near Rock Island

I have done some night riding in several different situations and have tried
different lighting schemes. Here are the results as I saw them.

Using a MTN bike on the trail and city streets. This was set up with a
light mounted on the bars that used two 'c' cells for power. Not worth a
darn for attention getting or being able to see.

System using a 6 and 10 watt light on the mtn bike for the same type of
riding. This one lit the trail up ahead of the bike pretty good but one
was still in the tunnel mode. You could see what was going on ahead of you
but the sides were totally dark. And if you were turning you were turning
into a dark patch.

Same 6 and 10 watt system with an additional lamp on the helmet that was
about a 10 watt lamp. This one was real good. The lamps on the bike lit
the trail up in front of the bike good and the head lamp let one look around
and see the area where one was turning. On the street one has to be
conscious of where one is looking because the lamp on the helmet is aimed
where you are looking. It DOES get the attention of drivers at stop signs.

Now admittedly, this one is extreme. One lamp on the front of the bike and
the "Battery Pack" was carried on a BOB trailer. The trailer also carried
another battery for the sound system and the speakers for the sound. BTW,
this was for a Halloween ride on an abandoned railroad trail. It had the
tunnel effect with this light but there was NO way that I was going to over
ride this light. Oh yes, I forgot to mention that the wattage of the lamp
was somewhat extreme. I purchased the lamp from Wal-Marts Auto section. It
was intended to be an off road vehicle lamp. The box made it quite clear
that it was not to be used on road due to the fact that it was over the DOT
limit in wattage.

100 watts is a little bit extreme. :-)

But picture this. Halloween, Pitch black night in the woods, maybe a little
inebriation on the part of the people out there in the woods and a HEADLIGHT
with the sound of a Steam locomotive chugging, squealing on the rails and
blowing its whistle. The trail was clear when I went through the party.

OK back to some serious thoughts on the visibility to the rear of your bike.
At night two of the Vista Lite type flashing LED lights and maybe a white
strobe that would be visible to the sides and rear would be good. Then the
reflector tape on the rims of the bike and reflective strips on the helmet.
Don't forget to wear light colored clothing. I rode away from a group once
at night with three VISTA lights flashing to the rear, the white strobe on
top of a Burley carrying picnic supplies and a lamp inside the Burley that
made the whole thing glow. The people that I spoke to later said that I
looked like a UFO taking off as I left. I had people stopped at stop signs
wait for me to see what was coming at them down the road.

Look in the automotive sections of different stores and see what is
available for driving lights and fog lights. Some of them use the 12 volt
reflector bulbs that one can get for low voltage track lighting. The bulbs
in this size can be obtained in the 20 watt rating as either flood, spot
or narrow spot lamps. They are weather resistant and durable. Batteries
can be obtained from the different battery stores. For switches and such,
use the switches from the automotive section of the stores as they are
rated for DC power.

Sorry this got so long but I like to talk lighting on bicycles.

ka0ies