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Airless Tires? And How Heavy Is "Heavy"?



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 3rd 06, 08:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.marketplace,rec.bicycles.misc,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
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Default Airless Tires? And How Heavy Is "Heavy"?

Hi, All:

Thanks for turning me onto this latest must-have item! =) So that
Schwalbe Marathon Plus sounds like the thing to get to avoid
punctures...but how heavy is "heavy," really?

And what about airless tires? What are they, how do they work?


TIA!!

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  #2  
Old February 3rd 06, 09:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.marketplace,rec.bicycles.misc,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
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Default Airless Tires? And How Heavy Is "Heavy"?

On 3 Feb 2006 12:22:41 -0800, "NYC XYZ"
wrote:

And what about airless tires? What are they, how do they work?


They are semi-solid constructs, sometimes using a conventional tube
with a foam doughnut in place of the tube, and sometimes made as a
unit with the foam center molded in place within the tire shell.
While they are often regarded as a good thing on wheelchairs and other
low-speed devoces which require a minimal-maintenance service
situation, they have far higher rolling resistance than most
conventional tires (even the puncture-resistant ones fare better from
what I've heard) and they ride very rough; like running a conventional
tire severely over rated pressure.

Some recreational and commuter cyclists like them. No competitive and
few enthusiast cyclists feel that the penalties justify the expense,
inefficiency, and difficulty of installation.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
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  #3  
Old February 3rd 06, 09:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.marketplace,rec.bicycles.misc,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
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Default Airless Tires? And How Heavy Is "Heavy"?

In the past 4 years, I have ridden on average, 2,000 miles per year. I
have had one puncture flat in that time.

What do I ride? Tubulars (aka sew-ups). Half were standard butyl
tubed, the others TUFO vulcanized tublesss tubulars.

"Impossible!" is what I hear all the time. But if you know how to use
tubulars, they are far better in this respect.

Clinchers are prone to flatting. The stiffness of the construction
encourages puncture rather than deformation. The tube is prone to
pinch flats. And no, this is not because of "faulty installation." It
is the "snakebite" phenomenon--which happens to mountainbikers even
more frequently. At some point, you will bottom out to the rim flange,
and when you do, it is snakebite time. Tubulars don't have that sharp
flange, and so bottoming out never damages anything.

Go ahead and ride your airless bricks. See if you have fun.

The great thing about tubulars is that they are less flat-prone and at
the same time the most fun to ride! (Nothing accelerates, corners or
feels like a good tubular).

And you don't have to deal with trying to get that kevar bead over the
flange in the winter, as you do with clinchers. Tubul;ars are easy to
change--just strip one off and pull the new one on.

Mileage:

rear tires, I get 1,000 miles on a lightweight trainer (Conti Giro) or
TUFO performance type. I gert 2,000 rear wheel miles on the heavier
TUFOS.

front tires, I get over 4,000 miles and have to change them due to
drying out, rather than treadwear.

  #4  
Old February 3rd 06, 10:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.marketplace,rec.bicycles.misc,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
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Default Airless Tires? And How Heavy Is "Heavy"?

Maybe if you have constant flats; I tried some back in the 70s and

(a) they're real bait for screwdriver skin punctures trying to get
them on and off

(b) they don't solve the changing tire problem! The tube wears through
in a little longer than it takes normally (because you don't care about
actually wearing through as much) so you still have to change the
sucker, and that's _hard_, going off and going on.

(c) the increased vibration breaks apart the hub flange at the spoke
holes.

Cheng Shin tires last forever, if you want an alternative, though
they have by far the greatest rolling resistance I've ever run into.

--
Ron Hardin


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
  #5  
Old February 3rd 06, 10:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.marketplace,rec.bicycles.misc,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
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Default Airless Tires? And How Heavy Is "Heavy"?

"NYC XYZ" writes:

Hi, All:

Thanks for turning me onto this latest must-have item! =) So that
Schwalbe Marathon Plus sounds like the thing to get to avoid
punctures...but how heavy is "heavy," really?

And what about airless tires? What are they, how do they work?


They ride like they have 200 psi in them, and they roll like they have
40 psi in them. In other words, the worst of both worlds. They won't
go flat but you'll also not enjoy riding your bike...
  #6  
Old February 3rd 06, 10:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.marketplace,rec.bicycles.misc,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
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Default Airless Tires? And How Heavy Is "Heavy"?

"bill" writes:

In the past 4 years, I have ridden on average, 2,000 miles per year.
I have had one puncture flat in that time.


8,000 miles and "one puncture flat." Have you had other types of
flats?

What do I ride? Tubulars (aka sew-ups). Half were standard butyl
tubed, the others TUFO vulcanized tublesss tubulars.

"Impossible!" is what I hear all the time. But if you know how to
use tubulars, they are far better in this respect.

Clinchers are prone to flatting. The stiffness of the construction
encourages puncture rather than deformation.


Malarkey. Pure and simple. Those who have ridden both know that you
are either making this up or thoroughly confused. There are lots of
clinchers available with casings every bit as supple as tubulars.
Hell, most tubulars are nowhere near as supple as the old Setas but
people talk about them like all tubulars are like those old silks.

The tube is prone to pinch flats. And no, this is not because of
"faulty installation." It is the "snakebite" phenomenon--which
happens to mountainbikers even more frequently. At some point, you
will bottom out to the rim flange, and when you do, it is snakebite
time.


Fairly true. Although I can't recall a pinch flat on my clinchers in
quite a while, a couple of years maybe.

Tubulars don't have that sharp flange, and so bottoming out
never damages anything.


Malarkey again.

Go ahead and ride your airless bricks. See if you have fun.

The great thing about tubulars is that they are less flat-prone and
at the same time the most fun to ride! (Nothing accelerates, corners
or feels like a good tubular).


A double dose of you-know-what here.

And you don't have to deal with trying to get that kevar bead over
the flange in the winter, as you do with clinchers. Tubul;ars are
easy to change--just strip one off and pull the new one on.


I can change the tube out of a clincher faster than I can replace a
tubular.

Mileage:

rear tires, I get 1,000 miles on a lightweight trainer (Conti Giro)
or TUFO performance type. I gert 2,000 rear wheel miles on the
heavier TUFOS.


Wow. I'd be really ****ed off if I only got 1000 miles on a rear tire
before it wore out.

front tires, I get over 4,000 miles and have to change them due to
drying out, rather than treadwear.


Rotating your tires correctly prevents this problem. Take the worn
out rear tire off, swap the front tire onto the rear wheel and put the
new tire on the front.
  #7  
Old February 4th 06, 02:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.marketplace,rec.bicycles.misc,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
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Default Airless Tires? And How Heavy Is "Heavy"?

NYC XYZ wrote:

Thanks for turning me onto this latest must-have item! =) So that
Schwalbe Marathon Plus sounds like the thing to get to avoid
punctures...but how heavy is "heavy," really?


I used the 700x38 version of those tires, and they are about twice as
heavy as the lightest tires I have used in that size range.

http://www.schwalbe.com/index.pl?ber...31&details=226

I _love_ Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires, but I have had some problems
with them blowing off my rims at modest amounts over the sidewall
rating. I have also had one sidewall herniate at the rated pressure
with less than 20 miles on the tire.

That's the bad news. The good news is that they not only prevent
punctures, but the tread's "chewy center" offers a cushy ride even when
the casing is inflated very hard. It makes a tremendous positive
difference in ride quality.

I wish my bikes could accomodate the 700x47 size.

Chalo Colina

  #8  
Old February 4th 06, 02:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.marketplace,rec.bicycles.misc,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
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Default Airless Tires? And How Heavy Is "Heavy"?

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 16:30:00 -0600, Tim McNamara
wrote:

"bill" writes:

front tires, I get over 4,000 miles and have to change them due to
drying out, rather than treadwear.


Rotating your tires correctly prevents this problem. Take the worn
out rear tire off, swap the front tire onto the rear wheel and put the
new tire on the front.


Ah, but with tubulars, this isn't practical; only a clincher allows
the tire to be easily and swiftly demounted and remounted for
immediate use on a different wheel. Thus a worn tubular on a front
wheel is likely to remain in service there until it's worn out. The
commonplace clincher safety measure of always putting the best tire
forward isn't a policy that easily adhered to with tubulars.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
  #9  
Old February 4th 06, 04:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.marketplace,rec.bicycles.misc,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
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Default Airless Tires? And How Heavy Is "Heavy"?

I gave up quickly on slime tubes for the reasons stated by others. It's
impossible to repair a puncture when you get one, and worse, difficult to
reinflate the tube. I also gave up after a couple winters on studded tires.
Their rolling resistance is big-time (2+ mph for me), plus they are very
noisy.

Mr. Tuffy liners stop many (not all) punctures, but their sharp edges
themselves cause leaks. That can be cured with thick thorn resistant tubes,
which I do use. But they too have a downside. They are more susceptible to
stem failures than other tires.

I have had success with Bontrager kevlar-lined tires. Like the Mr. Tuffy
liners, they don't stop everything (I've had failures when I hit a 1 1/2
inch screw and a 1 inch nail), but they do stop a lot of small stuff. Plus
they're good for 5000 miles or so on the rear wheel and almost indefinitely
on the front. I assume I'm giving up some speed because they are moderately
heavy. I use them with the thorn resistant tube and sometimes a Mr. Tuffy
liner, though I'm leaning against that right now. On long trips, my spare
tubes are not thorn resistant. They're too bulky.


"NYC XYZ" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi, All:

Thanks for turning me onto this latest must-have item! =) So that
Schwalbe Marathon Plus sounds like the thing to get to avoid
punctures...but how heavy is "heavy," really?

And what about airless tires? What are they, how do they work?


TIA!!



  #10  
Old February 4th 06, 01:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.marketplace,rec.bicycles.misc,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
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Default Airless Tires? And How Heavy Is "Heavy"?

"NYC XYZ" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi, All:

Thanks for turning me onto this latest must-have item! =) So that
Schwalbe Marathon Plus sounds like the thing to get to avoid
punctures...but how heavy is "heavy," really?

And what about airless tires? What are they, how do they work?


TIA!!

there are two types you could use, the entire airless tire/tube unit as one,
or use a tire of your choice with a airless tube.
In either case they are heavier, which makes the wheels feel sluggish and
more hard to pedal (sort of like the rolling resistance is greater).
They ride and feel harder or more harsh. They are very difficult to get on,
you have to be careful to not stab yourself as you have to use real wide
blade screwdrivers to put them on, whcih means thin alumnium rims can be
damaged in the process, but if you have steel stamped rims you are OK.
The sold tire ones may not have a good gripper tire design, you may need to
be f\careful on wet roads or streets in the turns and such.
But if you are getting lots of flats from thorns, glass, sharp rock
splinters and such, they are the way to go in that case.
it is a trade off, lots of flats or lots of riding, so it depends.


 




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