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Stronger rubber cement?



 
 
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  #91  
Old January 16th 17, 05:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 2017-01-04 22:55, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 11:59:28 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

Try these:

https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Thorn.../dp/B000BMT2TM

I never looked back. Reviews are mixed and sometimes they do have poor
valve attachment. Also, some are thick only towards the running surface
and that is less protecting than thick all around.


Thanks. I should probably get something like that instead of the
cheap tubes that I've been buying. Note that the cheap tubes seem to
leak without any riding. I've built wheels, applied pressure, and
watched the pressure drop slowly over a period of several days. The
leaks are small, difficult to find, tricky to plug without a patch,
and very irritating.


Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept it if you
had to pump up the tires of your car every two weeks? Yet most cyclists
think this is "normal".


Incidentally, I use mostly Presta valves:
https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Thorn-Resistant-Presta-Valve/dp/B000AO9ZX4/


They come in both. Often also long or short stem.


So ask before buying in order to be able to return if not as promised.
As Forest Gump said, "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know
what you gonna get".


I rarely return anything unless its dead on arrival or they shipped me
the wrong stuff.



If something was clearly overpromised I generally return it. It is the
only way for manufacturers to learn to be honest.


... I'll probably just buy one set tubes and see what
happens. $14/ea for 27x1.25. Grumble...


It is so worth it. I can just walk into our garage, pick the most
suitable bike for the ride, hop on, and ride. No pumping up the tires
first. While riding I can be assured that the spare tube and patch kits
will most likely only be needed for other riders.


The thicker a tube the better it usually is.


If it means that I don't have to pump up the tires every time I go for
a ride, I'll pay the price.


Do it. You won't look back. However, you bike will now weigh around two
pounds more and the wheels will have a much higher rotating mass. Your
average speed might also drop by an mph. A small price to pay for the
huge increase in likelihood to arrive on time instead of sitting on the
side of the road in 40F weather fixing a flat.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Ads
  #92  
Old January 16th 17, 06:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 2017-01-05 08:31, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/5/2017 9:59 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-05 07:34, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 8:47:35 PM UTC-8, Phil
Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Wed, 04 Jan
2017
07:38:10 -0800 the perfect time to write:

On 2017-01-04 01:19, Tosspot wrote:
On 04/01/17 01:04, Joerg wrote:
Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber
cement in
the patch kits? Ideally something that won't dry out
so fast
or where multiple cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from
side
wall blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two
tenths of
an inch long. The tubes I use are super thick and,
therefore,
expensive. $15-20 each and that's not something to be
thrown
out lightly. Instead of the li'l REMA patches I need
to use
thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube but this
has to
be vulcanized/cemented really well.

UK, but must be available all over

http://www.tyre-equipment.co.uk/acat...r-Patches.html






Go up to 180mmx95mm and are less than a UKP per patch.


Thanks! Time for a trip to the autoparts store since
there is

http://www.vipal-usa.com/repair_line_e.html

Looks like a Brazilian company.


The 30mm patches are 13 squids per 100! Surely, surely
even
Joerg can't get through that amount that fast!


I hardly get flats but when I do they are hardcore.
Typically
caused by those notorious #%&^!! flimsy side walls of
bicycle
tires. Which is also why I am always on the lookout for
tires
with better side walls. For the MTB I found that Asian
ones do
better in that domain but haven't found any yet for the
road
bike. Will try CST, their Conquistare tires look
promising but I
could not find reviews.

Heavier tires are generally better and finally those
appeared for
29". For 700c it's still slim pickens.

You do know that 29" ARE 700c, both using a bead seat
diameter of
622mm? It's just that one description is used for MTB and
the other
for road use.

I have been told that many times. But my CX bike feels
absolutely
NOTHING like the 29er did. On that the wheels felt massive
and heavy.
On the CX bike they are nothing of the sort.


Phil should try to mount a 29" Intense Trail Taker tire or
similar on a 700c road bike. Then it would quickly sink in
why this will never work :-)


Joerg, don't be ridiculous. Phil Lee was correct.


Tires formally labeled as 29" are simply not available in 25mm. At least
AFAICT.


A 559mm 26x2.3 tire will mount on the rim but can't possibly fit inside
the frame or fork of a Bridgestone CB1. So what? A perfectly common
700-35C touring tire won't clear in your road bike either.

That unsuitably wide tires exist for any given rim diameter in any given
frame doesn't make them different ISO sizes. There are a spectrum of
widths for almost every ISO format, choice is good!


Well, there aren't skinny 29" tires.


p.s. A 700-18 ultralight tire would fit your road bike rim as well. For
you, I'd suggest a wider tire.


Yes, I had very narrow tires before and found that 25mm is better for
where I now ride. 28mm would theoretically fit but only when the rear is
very well trued which does not hold for long on my routes. I am also not
very talented for trueing a wheel.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #93  
Old January 16th 17, 06:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 2017-01-05 11:27, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/5/2017 10:47 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 8:31:22 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/5/2017 9:59 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-05 07:34,
wrote:
On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 8:47:35 PM UTC-8, Phil
Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Wed, 04 Jan
2017
07:38:10 -0800 the perfect time to write:

On 2017-01-04 01:19, Tosspot wrote:
On 04/01/17 01:04, Joerg wrote:
Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber
cement in
the patch kits? Ideally something that won't dry out
so fast
or where multiple cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from
side
wall blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two
tenths of
an inch long. The tubes I use are super thick and,
therefore,
expensive. $15-20 each and that's not something to be
thrown
out lightly. Instead of the li'l REMA patches I need
to use
thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube but this
has to
be vulcanized/cemented really well.

UK, but must be available all over

http://www.tyre-equipment.co.uk/acat...r-Patches.html






Go up to 180mmx95mm and are less than a UKP per patch.


Thanks! Time for a trip to the autoparts store since
there is

http://www.vipal-usa.com/repair_line_e.html

Looks like a Brazilian company.


The 30mm patches are 13 squids per 100! Surely, surely
even
Joerg can't get through that amount that fast!


I hardly get flats but when I do they are hardcore.
Typically
caused by those notorious #%&^!! flimsy side walls of
bicycle
tires. Which is also why I am always on the lookout for
tires
with better side walls. For the MTB I found that Asian
ones do
better in that domain but haven't found any yet for the
road
bike. Will try CST, their Conquistare tires look
promising but I
could not find reviews.

Heavier tires are generally better and finally those
appeared for
29". For 700c it's still slim pickens.

You do know that 29" ARE 700c, both using a bead seat
diameter of
622mm? It's just that one description is used for MTB and
the other
for road use.

I have been told that many times. But my CX bike feels
absolutely
NOTHING like the 29er did. On that the wheels felt massive
and heavy.
On the CX bike they are nothing of the sort.


Phil should try to mount a 29" Intense Trail Taker tire or
similar on a 700c road bike. Then it would quickly sink in
why this will never work :-)


Joerg, don't be ridiculous. Phil Lee was correct.

A 559mm 26x2.3 tire will mount on the rim but can't possibly
fit inside the frame or fork of a Bridgestone CB1. So what?
A perfectly common 700-35C touring tire won't clear in your
road bike either.

That unsuitably wide tires exist for any given rim diameter
in any given frame doesn't make them different ISO sizes.
There are a spectrum of widths for almost every ISO format,
choice is good!

p.s. A 700-18 ultralight tire would fit your road bike rim
as well. For you, I'd suggest a wider tire.


In order to make this a regular road bike capable of mounting at least
a 32 would be to exchange the crank for a compact and reset the
spacing of the front derailleur.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/5920793876.html

This gives you the best of all possible worlds.


How the hell would a crank change squeeze a 32mm tire between Joerg's
road bike chainstays??


Oh, I could squeeze that tire in there provided I pump it up afterwards.
A minor side effect would be that my bike would then become a stationary
one where the rear wheel won't turn :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #94  
Old January 16th 17, 06:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 2017-01-04 15:55, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 12:05:54 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-03 17:04, Joerg wrote:
Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the patch
kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where multiple
cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall
blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an inch long.
The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore, expensive. $15-20 each
and that's not something to be thrown out lightly. Instead of the li'l
REMA patches I need to use thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube
but this has to be vulcanized/cemented really well.


Thanks to all responders (also Barry and Doug). I'll order Slime Rubber
Cement with my next Amazon shipment because that's what David uses, he
says it works well and it isn't expensive:

https://www.amazon.com/Slime-1050-Ru.../dp/B003V9UU66


--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


That "rubber cement" isn't for gluing rubber. It's an elastic finish if memory serves.


AFAIK it contains Heptane and is meant to partially dissolve the already
vulcanized tube surface so the patch materials kind of partially flows
into tht tube material for a durable bond.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #95  
Old January 16th 17, 06:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 2017-01-05 02:04, Tosspot wrote:
On 04/01/17 20:05, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-03 17:04, Joerg wrote:
Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the patch
kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where multiple
cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall
blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an inch long.
The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore, expensive. $15-20 each
and that's not something to be thrown out lightly. Instead of the li'l
REMA patches I need to use thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube
but this has to be vulcanized/cemented really well.


Thanks to all responders (also Barry and Doug). I'll order Slime Rubber
Cement with my next Amazon shipment because that's what David uses, he
says it works well and it isn't expensive:

https://www.amazon.com/Slime-1050-Ru.../dp/B003V9UU66


Whatwhat!! Are you *seriously* claiming r.b.t has been useful!? What
ever is the world coming to?


Usenet is very useful, I guess that's where the name comes from. A lot
of hints here go into my bicycle files, in the sense of "If ... ever
breaks consider replacing it with ..." or "If it breaks don't ever use ...".

When I mentioned in a post in a newsgroup that I had bonked, want to
avoid it but can't stand the cyclist astronaut food or any sweet stuff
someone responded with a link to a recipe for homemade non-sweet power
bars. My wife bakes them to this day. Yesterday I shared these bars with
another rider who really likes them as well. Can't buy them anywhere.

Another example was a "how to" post I let off in some home improvement
newsgroup about a decade ago, on how to change the bulb in a designer
task light which is quite tricky. You need the manufacturers link to the
drawing to really understand things. Year later the link broke and I
still receive request about it. Luckily I have a local copy of that PDF
file.


Let's get back to chain lubes, that's much more fun :-)


Or talk about bike paths :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #96  
Old January 16th 17, 06:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 2017-01-05 07:59, wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 8:04:38 PM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the
patch kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where
multiple cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall
blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an inch
long. The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore, expensive.
$15-20 each and that's not something to be thrown out lightly.
Instead of the li'l REMA patches I need to use thicker rubber from
an older sacrified tube but this has to be vulcanized/cemented
really well.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

You can use place a second offset patch over an existing Rema patch.
This way you can patch long slits using the F1 (25mm) Rema round
patch. Patch one at a time, then sand the top of the patch in the
direction of the patch center to the end, apply the vulcanizing fluid
and apply the next. Repeat the process until the entire slit is
patched.

Make sure you start and end about 15 mm beyond the slit. You may also
want to cut a small circle around the ends of the slit to stop the
slit from expanding when the tube is inflated.

You have not stated the tube size. This is important because the
patch must fit within the width of the tube when the tube is flat.
I've found I have to use the F0 (16 mm) patch for tube widths less
than 25 mm. I've found the wider F1 (25 mm) patch will work with
tubes with a nominal width of 28 mm and above.


Up to 2.4" for the MTB and up to 25mm for the road bike.


It's important that the patch edges are "glued." I've found the best
way to insure this is to lie the tube on a flat surface and burnish
the patch onto the tube after it's applied. I use a center to outside
burnishing motion. I use the rounded edge of a Rema patch kit as my
burnishing tool.

There are some rubber compounds that won't work with the Rema
vulcanizing fluid.



Oh. That would be a concern. I didn't know things were this finicky.


It also won't work in cold temperatures or when
the tube is wet. However, I've found that most of the time the reason
that patches don't adhere is due to improper application - pilot
error. Sand over a bigger area than you spread the vulcanizing fluid;
spread the vulcanizing fluid over a bigger area than the patch.
Spread a thin layer of the vulcanizing fluid and let it dry before
applying the patch. Don't blow on the vulcanizing fluid to hasten its
drying - the moisture in your breath will neutralize it.

If your tube has a rubber composition that will not work with the
Rema vulcanizing fluid, you may want to reconsider your tube choice.


There is no choice. I need very thick tubes and those are generally only
available from Sunlite. Soemtimes Kenda. One has to watch out for tubes
which are asymmetrical and only thicker towards the running surface.
Those are not as good as tubes that are thick all around.


I assume the reason you opt for a thick tube is to avoid flats.
However, you are paying 3 times what I pay for normal thickness
tubes. At about $0.75 per flat repair, I can make a lot of them to my
inexpensive tube before reaching your $15 threshold.


Doesn't matter to me. I simply do not wish to be delayed in my travels
by yet another flat and then arrive late and with dirty hands.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #97  
Old January 16th 17, 06:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,011
Default Stronger rubber cement?

analog

One has to watch out for tubes
which are asymmetrical and only thicker towards the running surface.
Those are not as good as tubes that are thick all around.


squirrels carry blowguns n wait in the scrub ?

  #98  
Old January 16th 17, 06:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
David Scheidt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,346
Default Stronger rubber cement?

Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept it if you
:had to pump up the tires of your car every two weeks? Yet most cyclists
:think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface area to volume
than bike tires. They're also run a lower pressure, for the most
part. So even if the permiability of the two tires were the same,
car tires would lose pressure slower. Of course, automotive tires are
much more impermiable, because they're heavier and thicker (the
inner liner of a typical car tire weighs as much as a bike tire does,
all by itself.)

--
sig 112
  #99  
Old January 16th 17, 06:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 2017-01-16 10:40, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
analog

One has to watch out for tubes
which are asymmetrical and only thicker towards the running surface.
Those are not as good as tubes that are thick all around.


squirrels carry blowguns n wait in the scrub ?


No, pinch flats that can occur when hitting surprise objects such as
rocks or during "unplanned excursions off of the beaten path". As
happened yesterday on my road bike. Had a runny nose, took both hands
off the bar for a few seconds ... RAT-TAT-TAT

Then there is the debris that gets flipped up when rolling over it and
pierces the side wall.

If bicycle tires had sturdy side walls the chances would be lower. But
they don't.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #100  
Old January 16th 17, 07:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept it if you
:had to pump up the tires of your car every two weeks? Yet most cyclists
:think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface area to volume
than bike tires. They're also run a lower pressure, for the most
part.



Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher. Like my MTB tires
are.


... So even if the permiability of the two tires were the same,
car tires would lose pressure slower.



It's the same on motorcycles which have tires similar in shape to what
we ride, just larger.


... Of course, automotive tires are
much more impermiable, because they're heavier and thicker (the
inner liner of a typical car tire weighs as much as a bike tire does,
all by itself.)


Heavier & thicker = better. That why the first line item I look at in
search of a better tire is the weight. Any weight weenie offerings need
not apply.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




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