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Stronger rubber cement?



 
 
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  #161  
Old January 18th 17, 02:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Landau
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Posts: 1,424
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 6:10:54 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 5:59:34 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 07:50:19 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-16 19:28, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 4:23:53 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 13:39, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept
it if you :had to pump up the tires of your car every two
weeks? Yet most cyclists :think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface area to
volume than bike tires. They're also run a lower pressure, for
the most part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher. Like my
MTB tires are.

A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race bikes -- or
one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You have peculiar expectations
for bicycles. You're theoretically perfect bike would weigh about
250lbs.

-- Jay Beattie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Joerg's wants in a
bicycle are would be met by a 250cc dirt-motorcycle converted to
pedal power and the engine removed.

I find it astounding that so many others who ride in very harsh
conditions do NOT have the breakages or other problems that Joerg
does.


According to several bicycle shop owners they do. Many said that two
factors allowed them to survive as a business:

1. Mountain bikers breaking stuff all the time.

2. Department store bike buyers who needed help and found that the store
that sold their bikes was less than helpful.

Unlike cars, which never need to be fixed, and that's why there are no auto repair shops. http://tinyurl.com/jba5fgb


Care to compare the number of vehicles plus the miles traveled? Maybe
then it becomes more clear. Cars are way more reliable than bicycles.
Especially if you buy top quality cars like we did. Other than regular
scheduled maintenance there were no breakdowns in the whole two decades
we own them. None, as in zero. Not even one flat tire. Try that with a
bicycle.


You talk about your auto escapades as hauling a half a cord of wood in
your SUV. You describe your bicycle riding as speeding down rocky
hills, leaping over bumps and unexpectedly diving into lakes.

If you drove your car the way that you claim to ride your bike I think
that you would have a very different concept of how bullet proof your
car is.

I've spent considerable time around trucks that haul heavy loads over
unimproved roads and my experience was that they definitely did
require frequent repairs.

I've also been around off the road racing cars and they took even more
maintenance than the trucks.

As usual, you are not comparing apples and apples.


I ride with a guy who races motorcycles. He can go through a set of tires over the course of weekend -- and they cost a mint. Talk about an expensive hobby.

-- Jay Beattie.


Expensive.. hmm... Wasn't Enron crashing Ferraris on weekends right before 9/11 ?
Ads
  #162  
Old January 18th 17, 03:48 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
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Posts: 2,011
Default Stronger rubber cement?

AE6KS

contact surface area contact surface area ....urethane foam ? wow talk about wooden tires ...where's the contact patch ? speculatin ? Look, if urethane foam offered more feel less resistance we'd be riding on urethane foam.

but tubeless.......no rub rub rub tween tube n tire walls . eyehahahhahhah fantastic.

However the surface area for improvement from this advance is limited....more speculation. Or the vastly greater surface area in auto gives much more feel...? over 300 HP ? Prob not but cheaper it is and more cost effective over in repair.

butbutbut weight vs surface area for 'feel'

what's conversion to no rub rub rub cost ? bottom end $500 ? DIY

sheet we cannah get the lawyer/purist to spring for a better tire grade. at $35

where's the market ? fancy techno cyclists in Santa Cruz ? Kansas wheat farmers ? college kids ?

ifn ura gonna market a tubeless tire 10% FASTER than a tubed tire....I buy in...otherwise....give it a 2" for 10 years. very glacial no ? in terms o John Q

so hows the tubeless market in Portland ?

tubeless rain tires feels good ...

begs for an audience.



  #163  
Old January 18th 17, 04:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
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Posts: 2,011
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 10:48:30 PM UTC-5, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
AE6KS

contact surface area contact surface area ....urethane foam ? wow talk about wooden tires ...where's the contact patch ? speculatin ? Look, if urethane foam offered more feel less resistance we'd be riding on urethane foam.

but tubeless.......no rub rub rub tween tube n tire walls . eyehahahhahhah fantastic.

However the surface area for improvement from this advance is limited....more speculation. Or the vastly greater surface area in auto gives much more feel...? over 300 HP ? Prob not but cheaper it is and more cost effective over in repair.

butbutbut weight vs surface area for 'feel'

what's conversion to no rub rub rub cost ? bottom end $500 ? DIY

sheet we cannah get the lawyer/purist to spring for a better tire grade. at $35

where's the market ? fancy techno cyclists in Santa Cruz ? Kansas wheat farmers ? college kids ?

ifn ura gonna market a tubeless tire 10% FASTER than a tubed tire....I buy in...otherwise....give it a 2" for 10 years. very glacial no ? in terms o John Q

so hows the tubeless market in Portland ?

tubeless rain tires feels good ...

begs for an audience.


https://www.google.com/#q=tubeless+t...04 0027342438

treat treat
  #164  
Old January 18th 17, 04:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 07:43:37 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-16 18:04, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:11:50 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-16 16:50, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 10:16:51 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-05 02:04, Tosspot wrote:
On 04/01/17 20:05, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-03 17:04, Joerg wrote:
Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the patch
kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where multiple
cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall
blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an inch long.
The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore, expensive. $15-20 each
and that's not something to be thrown out lightly. Instead of the li'l
REMA patches I need to use thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube
but this has to be vulcanized/cemented really well.


Thanks to all responders (also Barry and Doug). I'll order Slime Rubber
Cement with my next Amazon shipment because that's what David uses, he
says it works well and it isn't expensive:

https://www.amazon.com/Slime-1050-Ru.../dp/B003V9UU66

Whatwhat!! Are you *seriously* claiming r.b.t has been useful!? What
ever is the world coming to?


Usenet is very useful, I guess that's where the name comes from. A lot
of hints here go into my bicycle files, in the sense of "If ... ever
breaks consider replacing it with ..." or "If it breaks don't ever use ...".

When I mentioned in a post in a newsgroup that I had bonked, want to
avoid it but can't stand the cyclist astronaut food or any sweet stuff
someone responded with a link to a recipe for homemade non-sweet power
bars. My wife bakes them to this day. Yesterday I shared these bars with
another rider who really likes them as well. Can't buy them anywhere.


Out of curiosity, is your wife's recipe actually free of sugar, in any
form, or it just doesn't taste sweet?


It has a pinch of sugar for some reason, not sure if that can be left
out or replaced with something else. You can't taste it though. While
they also mention just a pinch of salt we add several pinches because in
summer one sweats out a lot of salt here.

Got it only in German but if really interested I could translate it:

http://www.chefkoch.de/rezepte/14555...sliriegel.html

It's a little more work than it looks like, with the bacon and all that,
and cutting into bars at the end so they can be packed on a bicycle. My
wife puts all of them into the freezer and then moves as many as needed
to the fridge a couple days before rides.


That looks like a recipe for some sort of Oatmeal cookies with bacon,
rather than the usual "power Bar" concept, which is usually something
that your body can get a quick bunch of energy from to replace what
you have lost.


I make sure I eat them during a scheduled break at some nice and scenic
area, not after I begin to feel a hard bonk coming up. The latter is a
mistake I only made once and don't want to experience that again. These
bar get me through the rides quite nicely. Usually 40-45 miles,
partially under a lot of power.


The difference is usually in how fast your body converts carbohydrates
to energy. Simple carbohydrates, essentially sugars, are converted
rapidly and complex carbohydrates like starches are converted much
slower. Which is, of course, why all the energy drinks contain
dextrose or sucrose or some other simple carbs.

Back when I was running I "bonked" or may better, "crashed and
burned". I reached the point where even after sitting down and resting
for a while I physically could not run any longer. I would sit down
and rest until I felt better and set off again and within 100 yards,
or less, wouldn't be able to run any more.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #165  
Old January 18th 17, 04:29 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 07:55:50 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-16 17:18, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:03:04 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept it if you
:had to pump up the tires of your car every two weeks? Yet most cyclists
:think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface area to volume
than bike tires. They're also run a lower pressure, for the most
part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher. Like my MTB tires
are.


Have you ever tried to pick up a
truck tire"?


Yes.


A typical 45" truck tire, say a B.F. Goodrich 445/65R-22.5, weighs,
according to the manufacturer some 215 lbs. Standard operating
pressure is in the neighborhood of 120 psi.

Comparing bicycle tires with tires for other vehicles is, to say the
least, a bit silly.

Unless, of course you plan on a 600 lb. bicycle :-)


I meant for pickup trucks. You can get regular tires with a limited
pressure range or slightly more expensive commercial grade ones for much
higher pressure. They make a lot of sense if the truck is going to
operated under a lot of load or on rough turf. A neighbor had them on
his Dodge Dakota and IIRC they were rated at 75psi max. The Dakota is
not even a large pickup truck, more the size of a compact car.

[...]


The Dodge is a probably called a 3/4 ton pickup it is rated at 1,700
lbs load.

Over here you can buy larger wheels to fit pickups, and most people
seem to use them. I bought my Isuzu second-hand and it had large
wheels and tires on it when I bought it
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #166  
Old January 18th 17, 04:42 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:47:33 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-17 08:21, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 7:50:18 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 19:28, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 4:23:53 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 13:39, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-5, jbeattie
wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8, Joerg
wrote:
On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would
you accept it if you :had to pump up the tires of your
car every two weeks? Yet most cyclists :think this is
"normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface
area to volume than bike tires. They're also run a
lower pressure, for the most part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher.
Like my MTB tires are.

A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race
bikes -- or one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You have
peculiar expectations for bicycles. You're theoretically
perfect bike would weigh about 250lbs.

-- Jay Beattie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Joerg's wants
in a bicycle are would be met by a 250cc dirt-motorcycle
converted to pedal power and the engine removed.

I find it astounding that so many others who ride in very
harsh conditions do NOT have the breakages or other problems
that Joerg does.


According to several bicycle shop owners they do. Many said
that two factors allowed them to survive as a business:

1. Mountain bikers breaking stuff all the time.

2. Department store bike buyers who needed help and found that
the store that sold their bikes was less than helpful.

Unlike cars, which never need to be fixed, and that's why there
are no auto repair shops. http://tinyurl.com/jba5fgb


Care to compare the number of vehicles plus the miles traveled?
Maybe then it becomes more clear. Cars are way more reliable than
bicycles. Especially if you buy top quality cars like we did. Other
than regular scheduled maintenance there were no breakdowns in the
whole two decades we own them. None, as in zero. Not even one flat
tire. Try that with a bicycle.


I just spent $1,200 on a clutch because my dopey son lives in a city
with 20% grades up to stop lights. That does not include the motel
bill and towing when the clutch went belly-up outside of Baker City.
That was after new rear drums, bearings, etc., etc. I've stupidly
re-bought that car -- not including gas and oil changes.


Get a new son 8-)

I drive a stick-shift and have hauled copious amounts of fuel pellets,
lumber, industrial equipment, plus half-ton loads of firewood over some
really bad dirt roads. We have a very hilly terrain including some steep
roads that can scare people. Nothing ever broke.


You mean like http://tinyurl.com/zzywnde ? Note that the road is in
use.



An F-1 patch costs me $.08. A decent bike is $1K, and I don't pay
insurance, registration, licensing, etc.


You do pay insurance. Bike mishaps are simply covered by other insurance
such as home owner's but you must pay the premiums. Else you might lose
all you've got if you screw up in traffic and cause a serious crash. One
of the many reason for umbrella policies. As a lawyer you should know :-)


What I pay in car insurance annually would buy me an all new bike
every year. Skip cleaning the chain -- just put last year's bike out
with the garbage. Plus, my bikes are reliable. I reliably change the
chain when the wear indicator indicates and change the tires when
they are worn out. I fix a flat now and then and do other routine
maintenance. It's not like some monumental inconvenience, and if
flats were epidemic, then I would switch to a hard-case tire. I
would not agonize over the fact that the 20lb tire on my Subaru goes
flat less often.


My point is that when I say I am going to be there for an important
meeting at 11:30am I don't want to leave half an hour earlier just in
case I get a flat. And good luck getting that Gatorksin tire back onto
one of my rims.


That is not to say that bike tires are not ridiculously expensive. I
do have issues with the cost of certain bike-related things.


For the MTB I have (almost) found the solution. The best tires seem to
come from Asia and they also happen to be cheap. The MTB still costs a
bit much to operate per mile but oh well. Still looking for a solution
for the road bike and I'll have to find that soon because I just mounted
the last Gatorskin from the stack.

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #167  
Old January 18th 17, 07:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
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Posts: 1,638
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 06:48:12 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

http://www.loupiote.com/photos_m/796...re-bicycle.jpg


Could you run that back and forth on my driveway a few times?

--
Joy Beeson, U.S.A., mostly central Hoosier,
some Northern Indiana, Upstate New York, Florida, and Hawaii
joy beeson at comcast dot net http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.



  #168  
Old January 18th 17, 10:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Graham
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Posts: 206
Default Stronger rubber cement?


"James" wrote in message news
On 18/01/17 07:59, James wrote:
On 18/01/17 06:36, jbeattie wrote:


[Snip]

BTW, I've witnessed others bitching and moaning about Gatorskin tyres.
Thankfully I've never needed to bother looking for more puncture
resistant tyres than my favourite Michelin Pro 4s.

--
JS


I have no problem fitting 25mm wire beaded Gatorskins on Open Pro rims on my winter training bike. Like you I would prefer to run Pro 4s on the winter bike as I do on my summer bike but I find them vulnerable to the rock salt they spread on the UK roads in winter. When the roads are wet there are shards of this stuff that behave just like glass and slice through the Pro 4s. The Gatorskins seem to cope with it much better. Even then carefull inspection is necessary to spot any embedded shards and remove them before they work their way through.

The Gatorskins feel like barges compared to the Pro 4s but no bad thing on a winter trainer. Also with respect to other threads the summer bike is full CF and weighs in just above the UCI limit and the winter trainer has an aluminium frame with carbon forks complete with mudguard (fender) eyes and is 5kgs (12lbs) heavier. The first ride on the summer bike in mid to late spring feels so good after a winter on the training bike.

Graham.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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  #169  
Old January 18th 17, 03:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 2017-01-17 11:36, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 10:56:13 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-17 10:36, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 9:47:32 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-17 08:21, jbeattie wrote:


[...]


What I pay in car insurance annually would buy me an all new
bike every year. Skip cleaning the chain -- just put last
year's bike out with the garbage. Plus, my bikes are
reliable. I reliably change the chain when the wear
indicator indicates and change the tires when they are worn
out. I fix a flat now and then and do other routine
maintenance. It's not like some monumental inconvenience, and
if flats were epidemic, then I would switch to a hard-case
tire. I would not agonize over the fact that the 20lb tire
on my Subaru goes flat less often.


My point is that when I say I am going to be there for an
important meeting at 11:30am I don't want to leave half an
hour earlier just in case I get a flat. And good luck getting
that Gatorksin tire back onto one of my rims.

If it takes you half an hour to fix a flat, you have other
problems that need to be addressed.


Yeah, I could get new rims and/or different tires. That is why
finding a suitable tire isn't easy. You are welcome to come over
and try getting a Gatorskin onto my rims.


Dude, I was mounting first generation Turbos on E2s rims using my
bare thumbs, but when I could no longer stand the pain, I got a VAR
tool and packed that. http://tinyurl.com/j9ul39s



I've got various sets of really good tire levers. They are of no use
when wrestling the bead over the rim. Try Gatorskins on a flat Mavic
Argent rim. I am by far not the only one and people have used all sorts
of tricks. Problem is, there are no trick, just raw force.


... There are other
options as well. http://tinyurl.com/j2otl8g


Snaps off in seconds.


And if you are riding such gnarly ****, how is it that you are still
riding vintage rims? I would assume the brake surface is worn nearly
through or the rim is bashed up enough to justify a new rim
manufactured in the last decade with a deeper profile and a better
fit for most tires.


This is my 1982 road bike. I do not brake all that much so the rims are
ok. I also have two MTB where changing out a tire is a matter of minutes
and I could do it with one hand if I wanted to.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #170  
Old January 18th 17, 03:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 2017-01-17 15:26, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
analog,

I will not explain tire mounting again. Retard at your own speed


I have explained to you that these are _flat_ rims. Hard to understand?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




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