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Stronger rubber cement?



 
 
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  #81  
Old January 5th 17, 05:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Landau
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,424
Default Stronger rubber cement?


A useful tip for storing cans or bottles of such materials (including
paints, as well) is to store them upside down.
That way, any slight imperfection in the seal around the lid will fill
with the glue, paint, or whatever, and dry to form a perfect seal,
which will preserve the contents.
If you store it right side up, only the vapour will be seeping out of
any imperfections, and the contents will dry out.
The only downside is that it can get difficult to open, if the seal
was particularly bad to start with, as the glue or paint will stick
the lid on rather firmly. But that only happens in the case of a
container in which the contents would have dried out anyway, so you
haven't lost anything.


That sounds good.
But it doesn't explain the pail of water.
Ads
  #82  
Old January 5th 17, 06:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,011
Default Stronger rubber cement?



'This is important because the patch must fit within the width of the tube when the tube is flat'

how is this?

again the concept is road bike not TdF bike or Criterium or ...road bike.

a road bike frame....fast geometry touring ? .... should accept a 35. The diff ...for whatever ... tween 28 n 35 will not get you anywhere faster...prob slower.

I went thru the lot except the NAPA and the Henkle ....NAPA's aromatic solvents evaped in the heat...boooohooo .....excremental.

Rema wins.

tires on different geometries of trail and wheelbase will feel different .....the darters leave less ongoing inertial contact patching for your sensors for some causing terminal sensory overload. but i the preceding, the road bike is prob faster over the road...not over the time trial...the road .... your overload is kinda psycho or neuro somatic
  #83  
Old January 5th 17, 07:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 1/5/2017 10:47 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 8:31:22 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/5/2017 9:59 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-05 07:34,
wrote:
On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 8:47:35 PM UTC-8, Phil
Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Wed, 04 Jan
2017
07:38:10 -0800 the perfect time to write:

On 2017-01-04 01:19, Tosspot wrote:
On 04/01/17 01:04, Joerg wrote:
Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber
cement in
the patch kits? Ideally something that won't dry out
so fast
or where multiple cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from
side
wall blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two
tenths of
an inch long. The tubes I use are super thick and,
therefore,
expensive. $15-20 each and that's not something to be
thrown
out lightly. Instead of the li'l REMA patches I need
to use
thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube but this
has to
be vulcanized/cemented really well.

UK, but must be available all over

http://www.tyre-equipment.co.uk/acat...r-Patches.html





Go up to 180mmx95mm and are less than a UKP per patch.


Thanks! Time for a trip to the autoparts store since
there is

http://www.vipal-usa.com/repair_line_e.html

Looks like a Brazilian company.


The 30mm patches are 13 squids per 100! Surely, surely
even
Joerg can't get through that amount that fast!


I hardly get flats but when I do they are hardcore.
Typically
caused by those notorious #%&^!! flimsy side walls of
bicycle
tires. Which is also why I am always on the lookout for
tires
with better side walls. For the MTB I found that Asian
ones do
better in that domain but haven't found any yet for the
road
bike. Will try CST, their Conquistare tires look
promising but I
could not find reviews.

Heavier tires are generally better and finally those
appeared for
29". For 700c it's still slim pickens.

You do know that 29" ARE 700c, both using a bead seat
diameter of
622mm? It's just that one description is used for MTB and
the other
for road use.

I have been told that many times. But my CX bike feels
absolutely
NOTHING like the 29er did. On that the wheels felt massive
and heavy.
On the CX bike they are nothing of the sort.


Phil should try to mount a 29" Intense Trail Taker tire or
similar on a 700c road bike. Then it would quickly sink in
why this will never work :-)


Joerg, don't be ridiculous. Phil Lee was correct.

A 559mm 26x2.3 tire will mount on the rim but can't possibly
fit inside the frame or fork of a Bridgestone CB1. So what?
A perfectly common 700-35C touring tire won't clear in your
road bike either.

That unsuitably wide tires exist for any given rim diameter
in any given frame doesn't make them different ISO sizes.
There are a spectrum of widths for almost every ISO format,
choice is good!

p.s. A 700-18 ultralight tire would fit your road bike rim
as well. For you, I'd suggest a wider tire.


In order to make this a regular road bike capable of mounting at least a 32 would be to exchange the crank for a compact and reset the spacing of the front derailleur.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/5920793876.html

This gives you the best of all possible worlds.


How the hell would a crank change squeeze a 32mm tire
between Joerg's road bike chainstays??

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #84  
Old January 5th 17, 07:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 1/5/2017 11:14 AM, Doug Landau wrote:

A useful tip for storing cans or bottles of such materials (including
paints, as well) is to store them upside down.
That way, any slight imperfection in the seal around the lid will fill
with the glue, paint, or whatever, and dry to form a perfect seal,
which will preserve the contents.
If you store it right side up, only the vapour will be seeping out of
any imperfections, and the contents will dry out.
The only downside is that it can get difficult to open, if the seal
was particularly bad to start with, as the glue or paint will stick
the lid on rather firmly. But that only happens in the case of a
container in which the contents would have dried out anyway, so you
haven't lost anything.


That sounds good.
But it doesn't explain the pail of water.


Tipping a pail of water upside down is a different
phenomenon altogether.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #85  
Old January 5th 17, 11:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,011
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 2:27:48 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/5/2017 10:47 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 8:31:22 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/5/2017 9:59 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-05 07:34,
wrote:
On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 8:47:35 PM UTC-8, Phil
Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Wed, 04 Jan
2017
07:38:10 -0800 the perfect time to write:

On 2017-01-04 01:19, Tosspot wrote:
On 04/01/17 01:04, Joerg wrote:
Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber
cement in
the patch kits? Ideally something that won't dry out
so fast
or where multiple cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from
side
wall blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two
tenths of
an inch long. The tubes I use are super thick and,
therefore,
expensive. $15-20 each and that's not something to be
thrown
out lightly. Instead of the li'l REMA patches I need
to use
thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube but this
has to
be vulcanized/cemented really well.

UK, but must be available all over

http://www.tyre-equipment.co.uk/acat...r-Patches.html





Go up to 180mmx95mm and are less than a UKP per patch.


Thanks! Time for a trip to the autoparts store since
there is

http://www.vipal-usa.com/repair_line_e.html

Looks like a Brazilian company.


The 30mm patches are 13 squids per 100! Surely, surely
even
Joerg can't get through that amount that fast!


I hardly get flats but when I do they are hardcore.
Typically
caused by those notorious #%&^!! flimsy side walls of
bicycle
tires. Which is also why I am always on the lookout for
tires
with better side walls. For the MTB I found that Asian
ones do
better in that domain but haven't found any yet for the
road
bike. Will try CST, their Conquistare tires look
promising but I
could not find reviews.

Heavier tires are generally better and finally those
appeared for
29". For 700c it's still slim pickens.

You do know that 29" ARE 700c, both using a bead seat
diameter of
622mm? It's just that one description is used for MTB and
the other
for road use.

I have been told that many times. But my CX bike feels
absolutely
NOTHING like the 29er did. On that the wheels felt massive
and heavy.
On the CX bike they are nothing of the sort.


Phil should try to mount a 29" Intense Trail Taker tire or
similar on a 700c road bike. Then it would quickly sink in
why this will never work :-)


Joerg, don't be ridiculous. Phil Lee was correct.

A 559mm 26x2.3 tire will mount on the rim but can't possibly
fit inside the frame or fork of a Bridgestone CB1. So what?
A perfectly common 700-35C touring tire won't clear in your
road bike either.

That unsuitably wide tires exist for any given rim diameter
in any given frame doesn't make them different ISO sizes.
There are a spectrum of widths for almost every ISO format,
choice is good!

p.s. A 700-18 ultralight tire would fit your road bike rim
as well. For you, I'd suggest a wider tire.


In order to make this a regular road bike capable of mounting at least a 32 would be to exchange the crank for a compact and reset the spacing of the front derailleur.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/5920793876.html

This gives you the best of all possible worlds.


How the hell would a crank change squeeze a 32mm tire
between Joerg's road bike chainstays??

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


why would anyone answer that ?
  #86  
Old January 5th 17, 11:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,011
Default Stronger rubber cement?

why would anyone answer that ?

tho tiring the suggestion does reveal intelligence on 36's part but calling the frog a nwet ya know.......

here's a good one.....opening the image I said AHA TEXAS


close, NC at Rallye.

I watched one outside Austin form a Ford dealer...hadda whine abt not getting service caws no one showed for work.

The tuber had a webcam setup near an interception similar to Vail Summit where we waited for the inevitable hi speed rollover down the off ramp embankment into a culvert abt 50' down.
  #87  
Old January 6th 17, 01:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Phil Lee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 248
Default Stronger rubber cement?

John B. considered Thu, 05 Jan 2017 11:52:43
+0700 the perfect time to write:

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 04:36:02 +0000, Phil Lee
wrote:

Joerg considered Wed, 04 Jan 2017
10:27:55 -0800 the perfect time to write:

On 2017-01-04 10:00, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 07:27:48 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

I'll look into contact cement. Gene also suggested that. Cost is not so
much an issue but shelf life after opening is. The usual rubber cement
is toast only a few months after opening.

I've had the same experience. The problem with the leaking bottles
and tubes seems to be related to heat. My squeeze tube of contact
cement doesn't last very long after it's used once, so I'm not sure
that looking for a better glue is the right answer. A better way to
prevent outgassing seems to be a better approach. As David Scheidt
suggests, buying the rubber cement or whatever in a can lasts much
longer. I keep my can inside a plastic Ziploc bag, which seems to
help. I've considered putting it inside a glass jar, and pressurizing
the jar to above the vapor pressure of the solvent to limit loss by
evaporation. I've done this with some chemicals and drugs, but never
tried it with glue.

Also, be sure to test the strength of your contact cement joint.
There's nothing stronger than a vulcanized bond, so I'm fairly sure
that contact cement will not be as strong as a proper vulcanizing
patch. Whether it's strong enough is the question.


I'll ask the automotive place for vulcanizing fluid as David suggested.

As for preventing oxygen to get at it I am wondering whether CO2 would
work. I started making beer to trapping some of the CO2 generated during
fermentation shoud be easy. It comes out of the air lock.


The problem isn't oxygen getting in, it's the volatile solvent getting
out.


A pail of water ?


That may be a lot less daft than it appears at first sight, but isn't
very portable.
I just store containers upside down, which seems to work well for
everything from assorted types of paint to various glues.
Small tubes are more of a problem, as they can develop pinholes just
from flexing while they are being carried, so it's not necessarily the
lid that isn't sealing.
I suppose if I was still able to ride, I might be tempted to
experiment with RTV silicon coating or vinyl dipping the tube before
use, but any test I could do now would be invalid for normal cycling
use - I do have a patch kit in the wheelchair bag, but it (the
wheelchair) sees far less use than any bicycle I've owned, and I've
never needed to open the patch kit at all (I also carry a spare inner
tube, and have never had a repairable puncture in a tube on the
chair).
  #88  
Old January 6th 17, 02:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,202
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Fri, 06 Jan 2017 01:53:57 +0000, Phil Lee
wrote:

John B. considered Thu, 05 Jan 2017 11:52:43
+0700 the perfect time to write:

On Thu, 05 Jan 2017 04:36:02 +0000, Phil Lee
wrote:

Joerg considered Wed, 04 Jan 2017
10:27:55 -0800 the perfect time to write:

On 2017-01-04 10:00, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 07:27:48 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

I'll look into contact cement. Gene also suggested that. Cost is not so
much an issue but shelf life after opening is. The usual rubber cement
is toast only a few months after opening.

I've had the same experience. The problem with the leaking bottles
and tubes seems to be related to heat. My squeeze tube of contact
cement doesn't last very long after it's used once, so I'm not sure
that looking for a better glue is the right answer. A better way to
prevent outgassing seems to be a better approach. As David Scheidt
suggests, buying the rubber cement or whatever in a can lasts much
longer. I keep my can inside a plastic Ziploc bag, which seems to
help. I've considered putting it inside a glass jar, and pressurizing
the jar to above the vapor pressure of the solvent to limit loss by
evaporation. I've done this with some chemicals and drugs, but never
tried it with glue.

Also, be sure to test the strength of your contact cement joint.
There's nothing stronger than a vulcanized bond, so I'm fairly sure
that contact cement will not be as strong as a proper vulcanizing
patch. Whether it's strong enough is the question.


I'll ask the automotive place for vulcanizing fluid as David suggested.

As for preventing oxygen to get at it I am wondering whether CO2 would
work. I started making beer to trapping some of the CO2 generated during
fermentation shoud be easy. It comes out of the air lock.

The problem isn't oxygen getting in, it's the volatile solvent getting
out.


A pail of water ?


That may be a lot less daft than it appears at first sight, but isn't
very portable.


What? You never heard of Jack and Jill, who went up the hill to get a
pail of water?

Or a "bucket of beer? See
https://www.quora.com/How-did-a-buck...ome-a-standard

I just store containers upside down, which seems to work well for
everything from assorted types of paint to various glues.
Small tubes are more of a problem, as they can develop pinholes just
from flexing while they are being carried, so it's not necessarily the
lid that isn't sealing.
I suppose if I was still able to ride, I might be tempted to
experiment with RTV silicon coating or vinyl dipping the tube before
use, but any test I could do now would be invalid for normal cycling
use - I do have a patch kit in the wheelchair bag, but it (the
wheelchair) sees far less use than any bicycle I've owned, and I've
never needed to open the patch kit at all (I also carry a spare inner
tube, and have never had a repairable puncture in a tube on the
chair).

--
cheers,

John B.

  #89  
Old January 6th 17, 02:42 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Radey Shouman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,747
Default Stronger rubber cement?

DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH writes:

On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 2:27:48 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/5/2017 10:47 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, January 5, 2017 at 8:31:22 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/5/2017 9:59 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-05 07:34,
wrote:
On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 8:47:35 PM UTC-8, Phil
Lee wrote:
Joerg considered Wed, 04 Jan
2017
07:38:10 -0800 the perfect time to write:

On 2017-01-04 01:19, Tosspot wrote:
On 04/01/17 01:04, Joerg wrote:
Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber
cement in
the patch kits? Ideally something that won't dry out
so fast
or where multiple cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from
side
wall blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two
tenths of
an inch long. The tubes I use are super thick and,
therefore,
expensive. $15-20 each and that's not something to be
thrown
out lightly. Instead of the li'l REMA patches I need
to use
thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube but this
has to
be vulcanized/cemented really well.

UK, but must be available all over

http://www.tyre-equipment.co.uk/acat...r-Patches.html





Go up to 180mmx95mm and are less than a UKP per patch.


Thanks! Time for a trip to the autoparts store since
there is

http://www.vipal-usa.com/repair_line_e.html

Looks like a Brazilian company.


The 30mm patches are 13 squids per 100! Surely, surely
even
Joerg can't get through that amount that fast!


I hardly get flats but when I do they are hardcore.
Typically
caused by those notorious #%&^!! flimsy side walls of
bicycle
tires. Which is also why I am always on the lookout for
tires
with better side walls. For the MTB I found that Asian
ones do
better in that domain but haven't found any yet for the
road
bike. Will try CST, their Conquistare tires look
promising but I
could not find reviews.

Heavier tires are generally better and finally those
appeared for
29". For 700c it's still slim pickens.

You do know that 29" ARE 700c, both using a bead seat
diameter of
622mm? It's just that one description is used for MTB and
the other
for road use.

I have been told that many times. But my CX bike feels
absolutely
NOTHING like the 29er did. On that the wheels felt massive
and heavy.
On the CX bike they are nothing of the sort.


Phil should try to mount a 29" Intense Trail Taker tire or
similar on a 700c road bike. Then it would quickly sink in
why this will never work :-)


Joerg, don't be ridiculous. Phil Lee was correct.

A 559mm 26x2.3 tire will mount on the rim but can't possibly
fit inside the frame or fork of a Bridgestone CB1. So what?
A perfectly common 700-35C touring tire won't clear in your
road bike either.

That unsuitably wide tires exist for any given rim diameter
in any given frame doesn't make them different ISO sizes.
There are a spectrum of widths for almost every ISO format,
choice is good!

p.s. A 700-18 ultralight tire would fit your road bike rim
as well. For you, I'd suggest a wider tire.

In order to make this a regular road bike capable of mounting at
least a 32 would be to exchange the crank for a compact and reset
the spacing of the front derailleur.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/5920793876.html

This gives you the best of all possible worlds.


How the hell would a crank change squeeze a 32mm tire
between Joerg's road bike chainstays??

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


why would anyone answer that ?


What is a rhetorical question?

--
  #90  
Old January 6th 17, 12:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,011
Default Stronger rubber cement?

A question needs upgrading ?
 




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