Need advice on bottom bracket repair

On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 11:54:40 AM UTC-5, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 08:05:28 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 6:33:31 PM UTC-8, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom
bracket in serious need of overhaul. The cranks flop
severely.

I've pulled the cranks and the lock ring on the left side, but
the adjustable cup won't come out. It turns about a quarter
turn, but then gets too stiff to turn further. It has no
flats for a wrench instead having holes for turning with a pin
spanner--so I'm unable to put a lot of force on it.

I've soaked it with WD40, but still no joy. Any advice for
me?

Ted, it all depends on what confidence you have in your
mechanical ability and if you're dumb enough, strike that,
willing to buy a tool that you're probably never going to use
again.

http://tinyurl.com/hcds8af

This is NOT a magic bullet and as john has recommended you have
have to work it back and forth until you finally free it.

Turns out I already had this type of tool--didn't remember it,
because it's been a *long* time since I used it last. I was able
to get it turned a bit farther with this rigid piin spanner, but
unfortunately, I broke one of the pins in trying. Too bad I
didn't see your caution first. I will see if my LBS has the
replacemennt pins.

As an aside, the Park SPA-1 (that Sheldon also recommends) came
first to my mind, because I use it periodically to adjust the
eccentrics on both of my tandems.


The modern sealed bottom brackets with the spline is a whole not
easier to install and remove.

I intend to replace the whole mess with a sealed cartridge BB, if
I can only get the old hardware out.

Thanks for the good advice!

--
Ted Heise Bloomington, IN, USA
I can get the old hardware out!

propane torch or heat gun ....when 'it' jambs, 'it' either loosens with back n forth gentle screw unscrewing in the correct direction...your install may have reverse threads ? or failing a gentle action with copious PC Blaster which isnot penetrating oil ...uneeda torch.

the caws of this is threads have a designed space..allowing loosening turning in n out ...between female n male threads.

when grolf n fargge acculumlate in there there's no more room for screwing in an out .....more pressure jambs more grolf ahead of the unthreading.

if rust what you have is a space designed for lubricant or locktite not rust.

On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 08:56:40 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 8:48:56 AM UTC-8, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 07:42:55 -0800 (PST),
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 10:38:15 AM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 9:33:31 PM UTC-5, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom bracket
in serious need of overhaul. The cranks flop severely.

I've pulled the cranks and the lock ring on the left side, but the
adjustable cup won't come out. It turns about a quarter turn, but
then gets too stiff to turn further. It has no flats for a wrench
instead having holes for turning with a pin spanner--so I'm unable
to put a lot of force on it.

I've soaked it with WD40, but still no joy. Any advice for me?

If your unit is a cup rather than a cartridge then tghis do it
yourself tool from Sheldon Brown (RIP) works wonders.

http://sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html

It's towards the bottom of the page under "Fixed-Cup Tools".


https://www.google.com/#q=removing%2...%3Ayoutube.com

Thanks guys, but I need to get the adjustable cup off before I
could use Sheldon's tool on the fixed cup.

Ted, I don't quite follow. You are talking about using a pin
spanner and then say that you need to get the adjustable cup
off first. Isn't that what we were talking about? The lock nut
on the adjustable side and the fixed cup do not use pin
spanners as far as I know.

Sorry. I have the lock ring off on the left, non-drive side, and
am left with an adjustable cup that will only turn partway. The
fixed cup is still in place too (on the other side), so the
spindle is in place and blocks putting in the bolt and nut that
Sheldon describes.

For what it's worth, the fixed cup also seems to be pretty stuck.
It's an aluminum frame, so presumably the shell is aluminum too
and there may be some corrosion in the interface between the two
different metals of the shell and the cups?

--
Ted Heise Bloomington, IN, USA

"Theodore Heise" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom
bracket in serious need of overhaul. The cranks flop
severely.

I've pulled the cranks and the lock ring on the left side, but
the adjustable cup won't come out. It turns about a quarter
turn, but then gets too stiff to turn further. It has no
flats for a wrench instead having holes for turning with a pin
spanner--so I'm unable to put a lot of force on it.

I've soaked it with WD40, but still no joy. Any advice for
me?

Delco 10.4020 penetrant is the best, PC Blaster is good.
Warming with a heat gun can help.

If no other path, flats can be cut on the cup with a disc
grinder to allow a wrench instead of those brittle expensive
pins.

p.s. Try the right side cup too. If that moves, you can easily
deal with the left one after disasssembly.

Thanks for the added tips. Off to get penetrating oil and new
pins now. Grinding on it is beyond my abilities, so if I'm not
able to get things off with the addition of penetrating oil and
time, I'll be hauling it off to my LBS.

At that stage; I'd turn it as far as the tight spot and give it a few
strikes with a hammer. sometimes you can ease it out bit at a time that way.

Once I had to shift a seized in pedal shaft, after snapping a couple of
spanners - I welded on the biggest nut I had a spanner for. Quenching the
hot steel with penetrating oil did slightly more than just spraying it on
cold. The same approach would probably work with a BB cup.

On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 1:14:21 PM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:
"Theodore Heise" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom
bracket in serious need of overhaul. The cranks flop
severely.

I've pulled the cranks and the lock ring on the left side, but
the adjustable cup won't come out. It turns about a quarter
turn, but then gets too stiff to turn further. It has no
flats for a wrench instead having holes for turning with a pin
spanner--so I'm unable to put a lot of force on it.

I've soaked it with WD40, but still no joy. Any advice for
me?

Delco 10.4020 penetrant is the best, PC Blaster is good.
Warming with a heat gun can help.

If no other path, flats can be cut on the cup with a disc
grinder to allow a wrench instead of those brittle expensive
pins.

p.s. Try the right side cup too. If that moves, you can easily
deal with the left one after disasssembly.

Thanks for the added tips. Off to get penetrating oil and new
pins now. Grinding on it is beyond my abilities, so if I'm not
able to get things off with the addition of penetrating oil and
time, I'll be hauling it off to my LBS.

At that stage; I'd turn it as far as the tight spot and give it a few
strikes with a hammer. sometimes you can ease it out bit at a time that way.

Once I had to shift a seized in pedal shaft, after snapping a couple of
spanners - I welded on the biggest nut I had a spanner for. Quenching the
hot steel with penetrating oil did slightly more than just spraying it on
cold. The same approach would probably work with a BB cup.

It is extremely bad practice to hammer a pin spanner. Firstly it will break the pins off on several types of pin spanners and in any case it will round off the holes so that you can't get one to work in any case. From the pen of Mr. Experience.

wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 1:14:21 PM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:
"Theodore Heise" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom
bracket in serious need of overhaul. The cranks flop
severely.

I've pulled the cranks and the lock ring on the left side, but
the adjustable cup won't come out. It turns about a quarter
turn, but then gets too stiff to turn further. It has no
flats for a wrench instead having holes for turning with a pin
spanner--so I'm unable to put a lot of force on it.

I've soaked it with WD40, but still no joy. Any advice for
me?

Delco 10.4020 penetrant is the best, PC Blaster is good.
Warming with a heat gun can help.

If no other path, flats can be cut on the cup with a disc
grinder to allow a wrench instead of those brittle expensive
pins.

p.s. Try the right side cup too. If that moves, you can easily
deal with the left one after disasssembly.

Thanks for the added tips. Off to get penetrating oil and new
pins now. Grinding on it is beyond my abilities, so if I'm not
able to get things off with the addition of penetrating oil and
time, I'll be hauling it off to my LBS.

At that stage; I'd turn it as far as the tight spot and give it a few
strikes with a hammer. sometimes you can ease it out bit at a time that
way.

Once I had to shift a seized in pedal shaft, after snapping a couple of
spanners - I welded on the biggest nut I had a spanner for. Quenching the
hot steel with penetrating oil did slightly more than just spraying it on
cold. The same approach would probably work with a BB cup.

It is extremely bad practice to hammer a pin spanner.

Who said anything about hammering a pin spanner?!!!

If you can't be bothered reading a post - don't bother answering it either.

On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 2:02:27 PM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 1:14:21 PM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:
"Theodore Heise" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom
bracket in serious need of overhaul. The cranks flop
severely.

I've pulled the cranks and the lock ring on the left side, but
the adjustable cup won't come out. It turns about a quarter
turn, but then gets too stiff to turn further. It has no
flats for a wrench instead having holes for turning with a pin
spanner--so I'm unable to put a lot of force on it.

I've soaked it with WD40, but still no joy. Any advice for
me?

Delco 10.4020 penetrant is the best, PC Blaster is good.
Warming with a heat gun can help.

If no other path, flats can be cut on the cup with a disc
grinder to allow a wrench instead of those brittle expensive
pins.

p.s. Try the right side cup too. If that moves, you can easily
deal with the left one after disasssembly.

Thanks for the added tips. Off to get penetrating oil and new
pins now. Grinding on it is beyond my abilities, so if I'm not
able to get things off with the addition of penetrating oil and
time, I'll be hauling it off to my LBS.

At that stage; I'd turn it as far as the tight spot and give it a few
strikes with a hammer. sometimes you can ease it out bit at a time that
way.

Once I had to shift a seized in pedal shaft, after snapping a couple of
spanners - I welded on the biggest nut I had a spanner for. Quenching the
hot steel with penetrating oil did slightly more than just spraying it on
cold. The same approach would probably work with a BB cup.

It is extremely bad practice to hammer a pin spanner.

Who said anything about hammering a pin spanner?!!!

If you can't be bothered reading a post - don't bother answering it either.

wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 2:02:27 PM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 1:14:21 PM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot
wrote:
"Theodore Heise" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom
bracket in serious need of overhaul. The cranks flop
severely.

I've pulled the cranks and the lock ring on the left side, but
the adjustable cup won't come out. It turns about a quarter
turn, but then gets too stiff to turn further. It has no
flats for a wrench instead having holes for turning with a pin
spanner--so I'm unable to put a lot of force on it.

I've soaked it with WD40, but still no joy. Any advice for
me?

Delco 10.4020 penetrant is the best, PC Blaster is good.
Warming with a heat gun can help.

If no other path, flats can be cut on the cup with a disc
grinder to allow a wrench instead of those brittle expensive
pins.

p.s. Try the right side cup too. If that moves, you can easily
deal with the left one after disasssembly.

Thanks for the added tips. Off to get penetrating oil and new
pins now. Grinding on it is beyond my abilities, so if I'm not
able to get things off with the addition of penetrating oil and
time, I'll be hauling it off to my LBS.

At that stage; I'd turn it as far as the tight spot and give it a few
strikes with a hammer. sometimes you can ease it out bit at a time
that
way.

Once I had to shift a seized in pedal shaft, after snapping a couple
of
spanners - I welded on the biggest nut I had a spanner for. Quenching
the
hot steel with penetrating oil did slightly more than just spraying it
on
cold. The same approach would probably work with a BB cup.

It is extremely bad practice to hammer a pin spanner.

Who said anything about hammering a pin spanner?!!!

If you can't be bothered reading a post - don't bother answering it
either.

I might suggest "At that stage; I'd turn it as far as the tight spot and
give it a few strikes with a hammer. sometimes you can ease it out bit at
a time that way." sounds an awful lot like hammering on a pin spanner. Are
you supposing we're discussing removing pedals from a crank?

Sorry - I forgot you were that thick.

I'll draw pictures next time.

On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 2:11:45 PM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 2:02:27 PM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 1:14:21 PM UTC-8, Benderthe.evilrobot
wrote:
"Theodore Heise" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom
bracket in serious need of overhaul. The cranks flop
severely.

I've pulled the cranks and the lock ring on the left side, but
the adjustable cup won't come out. It turns about a quarter
turn, but then gets too stiff to turn further. It has no
flats for a wrench instead having holes for turning with a pin
spanner--so I'm unable to put a lot of force on it.

I've soaked it with WD40, but still no joy. Any advice for
me?

Delco 10.4020 penetrant is the best, PC Blaster is good.
Warming with a heat gun can help.

If no other path, flats can be cut on the cup with a disc
grinder to allow a wrench instead of those brittle expensive
pins.

p.s. Try the right side cup too. If that moves, you can easily
deal with the left one after disasssembly.

Thanks for the added tips. Off to get penetrating oil and new
pins now. Grinding on it is beyond my abilities, so if I'm not
able to get things off with the addition of penetrating oil and
time, I'll be hauling it off to my LBS.

At that stage; I'd turn it as far as the tight spot and give it a few
strikes with a hammer. sometimes you can ease it out bit at a time
that
way.

Once I had to shift a seized in pedal shaft, after snapping a couple
of
spanners - I welded on the biggest nut I had a spanner for. Quenching
the
hot steel with penetrating oil did slightly more than just spraying it
on
cold. The same approach would probably work with a BB cup.

It is extremely bad practice to hammer a pin spanner.

Who said anything about hammering a pin spanner?!!!

If you can't be bothered reading a post - don't bother answering it
either.

I might suggest "At that stage; I'd turn it as far as the tight spot and
give it a few strikes with a hammer. sometimes you can ease it out bit at
a time that way." sounds an awful lot like hammering on a pin spanner. Are
you supposing we're discussing removing pedals from a crank?

Sorry - I forgot you were that thick.

I'll draw pictures next time.

So you meant something other than what you wrote. Well that makes sense.

On 1/8/2017 12:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom bracket
in serious need of overhaul. The cranks flop severely.

I've pulled the cranks and the lock ring on the left side, but the
adjustable cup won't come out. It turns about a quarter turn, but
then gets too stiff to turn further. It has no flats for a wrench
instead having holes for turning with a pin spanner--so I'm unable
to put a lot of force on it.

I've soaked it with WD40, but still no joy. Any advice for me?


Delco 10.4020 penetrant is the best, PC Blaster is good. Warming with a
heat gun can help.

If no other path, flats can be cut on the cup with a disc grinder to
allow a wrench instead of those brittle expensive pins.

p.s. Try the right side cup too. If that moves, you can easily deal with
the left one after disasssembly.

I too have had much better luck with PB Blaster or old-style Liquid
Wrench than with WD-40.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 12:59:14 PM UTC-5, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 08:56:40 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 8:48:56 AM UTC-8, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 07:42:55 -0800 (PST),
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 10:38:15 AM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 9:33:31 PM UTC-5, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom bracket
in serious need of overhaul. The cranks flop severely.

I've pulled the cranks and the lock ring on the left side, but the
adjustable cup won't come out. It turns about a quarter turn, but
then gets too stiff to turn further. It has no flats for a wrench
instead having holes for turning with a pin spanner--so I'm unable
to put a lot of force on it.

I've soaked it with WD40, but still no joy. Any advice for me?

If your unit is a cup rather than a cartridge then tghis do it
yourself tool from Sheldon Brown (RIP) works wonders.

http://sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html

It's towards the bottom of the page under "Fixed-Cup Tools".


https://www.google.com/#q=removing%2...%3Ayoutube.com

Thanks guys, but I need to get the adjustable cup off before I
could use Sheldon's tool on the fixed cup.

Ted, I don't quite follow. You are talking about using a pin
spanner and then say that you need to get the adjustable cup
off first. Isn't that what we were talking about? The lock nut
on the adjustable side and the fixed cup do not use pin
spanners as far as I know.

Sorry. I have the lock ring off on the left, non-drive side, and
am left with an adjustable cup that will only turn partway. The
fixed cup is still in place too (on the other side), so the
spindle is in place and blocks putting in the bolt and nut that
Sheldon describes.

For what it's worth, the fixed cup also seems to be pretty stuck.
It's an aluminum frame, so presumably the shell is aluminum too
and there may be some corrosion in the interface between the two
different metals of the shell and the cups?

--
Ted Heise Bloomington, IN, USA

if you search on aluminum/steel frame/shells/cups install or remove there should be an avalanche of umbrage.

if your system shows white material in joints then poss an ionic binding occurred between steel and aluminum. Andy Muzi is an expert on this.

Blaster does not dissolve the white material. Uneeda torch and another pin tool.

expanding aluminum with torch or heat gun will remove the cup.