|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
Ads |
#72
|
|||
|
|||
14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...
On Tue, 09 May 2017 11:01:57 -0700, Joerg
wrote: On 2017-05-09 06:23, wrote: On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 1:06:01 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:10:59 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Mon, 08 May 2017 11:52:58 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-05-08 10:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote: [...] At some point in time either you or a shop did something that knackered your top nut on your 600EX headset. I am not the only one who has that problem. Except the others eventually didn't have the bikes anymore, which "fixed" it for them. I keep technical things for a long time. Anyhow, the hose clamp fixes it for me. When I get around to it I'll put in a new non-600 headset. I wonder if someone over tightened Joerg's 600EX headset top nut and stripped it? Or if he has the right top nut on it? ANyhow, lots of them were sold and lots of them were used without Joerg's problem showing up. Joerg seems to think that he's the ONLY ONE who rides a road bike on trails. Cheers Actually I have had the same problem that Joerg has. Adjust and tighten the steering bearings and in a few days the bearings would be loose. A little investigation showed that the top nut instead of bottoming out on the upper bearing race and locking it, it was bottoming out on a very slightly too long steerer tube. I added a washer, perhaps 3/32" thick so the top nut actually tightened against the bearing race and have had no more problems in the last couple of years :-) -- Cheers, John B. I'll bet that this is what Joerg's problem is. It's almost impossible to tell a steering tube that's fractionally too long. Like yours it will appear to tighten up because it will bend just enough to appear to be tight. Then the extra pressure will cause it to loosen up. Got that Joerg? Try a small washer and see if that doesn't solve your problem. I took it apart to make sure there wasn't any other gremlin causing this and everything was alright. The lock nut does push down as it's supposed to do but that just isn't good enough for rides that include dirt paths or dirt roads. Which is almost inevitable where I live. As I wrote I was not the only one. Back in the 80's many of the more serious riders had Shimano 600 or 600EX. I lived in the Netherlands but close to Germany and Belgium. The riders who only did fitness rounds in Zuid Limburg (Dutch side) didn't have problems with the headset. Belgians and riders like me who ventured out into Belgium had them come loose a lot. Regardless of whether they had Gazelle, Merckx or other frames. The roads over there were often in bad shape, especially in the Wallonie (French-speaking area). Those guys also broke spokes as often as I do. Full confession: I often rode in Belgium because I loved their pubs and the Abbey Ales. Still do. That's why I have a Belgian Tripel carbonating right now and another set of ingredients ready to brew. I'm still wondering about the force generated. Assuming that you are riding "in the bush" and you hit a giant rock. The resulting force is up, trying to move the wheel and fork upward against the weight of the bloated beer drink rider. The force generated is up, against the lower bearing, no force what so ever on the upper race and lock nut. Then after one rebounds from the rock and the bike falls back to earth, with a resounding crash, the force is still taken by the bottom bearing resisting the mass of the bike and rider. Still no force at all against the upper bearing and lock nut. So what is causing the upper race and lock nut to loosen? Too much beer while working on the bike? Black Magic? -- Cheers, John B. |
#73
|
|||
|
|||
14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...
|
#74
|
|||
|
|||
14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:19:22 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 09 May 2017 11:01:57 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-05-09 06:23, wrote: On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 1:06:01 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:10:59 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Mon, 08 May 2017 11:52:58 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-05-08 10:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote: [...] At some point in time either you or a shop did something that knackered your top nut on your 600EX headset. I am not the only one who has that problem. Except the others eventually didn't have the bikes anymore, which "fixed" it for them. I keep technical things for a long time. Anyhow, the hose clamp fixes it for me. When I get around to it I'll put in a new non-600 headset. I wonder if someone over tightened Joerg's 600EX headset top nut and stripped it? Or if he has the right top nut on it? ANyhow, lots of them were sold and lots of them were used without Joerg's problem showing up. Joerg seems to think that he's the ONLY ONE who rides a road bike on trails. Cheers Actually I have had the same problem that Joerg has. Adjust and tighten the steering bearings and in a few days the bearings would be loose. A little investigation showed that the top nut instead of bottoming out on the upper bearing race and locking it, it was bottoming out on a very slightly too long steerer tube. I added a washer, perhaps 3/32" thick so the top nut actually tightened against the bearing race and have had no more problems in the last couple of years :-) -- Cheers, John B. I'll bet that this is what Joerg's problem is. It's almost impossible to tell a steering tube that's fractionally too long. Like yours it will appear to tighten up because it will bend just enough to appear to be tight. Then the extra pressure will cause it to loosen up. Got that Joerg? Try a small washer and see if that doesn't solve your problem. I took it apart to make sure there wasn't any other gremlin causing this and everything was alright. The lock nut does push down as it's supposed to do but that just isn't good enough for rides that include dirt paths or dirt roads. Which is almost inevitable where I live. As I wrote I was not the only one. Back in the 80's many of the more serious riders had Shimano 600 or 600EX. I lived in the Netherlands but close to Germany and Belgium. The riders who only did fitness rounds in Zuid Limburg (Dutch side) didn't have problems with the headset. Belgians and riders like me who ventured out into Belgium had them come loose a lot. Regardless of whether they had Gazelle, Merckx or other frames. The roads over there were often in bad shape, especially in the Wallonie (French-speaking area). Those guys also broke spokes as often as I do. Full confession: I often rode in Belgium because I loved their pubs and the Abbey Ales. Still do. That's why I have a Belgian Tripel carbonating right now and another set of ingredients ready to brew. I'm still wondering about the force generated. Assuming that you are riding "in the bush" and you hit a giant rock. The resulting force is up, trying to move the wheel and fork upward against the weight of the bloated beer drink rider. The force generated is up, against the lower bearing, no force what so ever on the upper race and lock nut. Then after one rebounds from the rock and the bike falls back to earth, with a resounding crash, the force is still taken by the bottom bearing resisting the mass of the bike and rider. Still no force at all against the upper bearing and lock nut. So what is causing the upper race and lock nut to loosen? Too much beer while working on the bike? Black Magic? A headset can loosen due to vibration, but that typically means the lock nut is not tight enough. One could use a more robust threaded headset or a Gorilla Headlock or something like it. The hose-clamp thing is just too trailer park. Joerg could fix all of his headset problems with a properly adjusted $20 headset -- but what fun would that be? It's far more fun to beat it with a rock in the middle of nowhere when it falls apart. -- Jay Beattie. |
#75
|
|||
|
|||
14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...
On 2017-05-10 07:01, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:19:22 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 09 May 2017 11:01:57 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-05-09 06:23, wrote: On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 1:06:01 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:10:59 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Mon, 08 May 2017 11:52:58 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-05-08 10:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote: [...] At some point in time either you or a shop did something that knackered your top nut on your 600EX headset. I am not the only one who has that problem. Except the others eventually didn't have the bikes anymore, which "fixed" it for them. I keep technical things for a long time. Anyhow, the hose clamp fixes it for me. When I get around to it I'll put in a new non-600 headset. I wonder if someone over tightened Joerg's 600EX headset top nut and stripped it? Or if he has the right top nut on it? ANyhow, lots of them were sold and lots of them were used without Joerg's problem showing up. Joerg seems to think that he's the ONLY ONE who rides a road bike on trails. Cheers Actually I have had the same problem that Joerg has. Adjust and tighten the steering bearings and in a few days the bearings would be loose. A little investigation showed that the top nut instead of bottoming out on the upper bearing race and locking it, it was bottoming out on a very slightly too long steerer tube. I added a washer, perhaps 3/32" thick so the top nut actually tightened against the bearing race and have had no more problems in the last couple of years :-) -- Cheers, John B. I'll bet that this is what Joerg's problem is. It's almost impossible to tell a steering tube that's fractionally too long. Like yours it will appear to tighten up because it will bend just enough to appear to be tight. Then the extra pressure will cause it to loosen up. Got that Joerg? Try a small washer and see if that doesn't solve your problem. I took it apart to make sure there wasn't any other gremlin causing this and everything was alright. The lock nut does push down as it's supposed to do but that just isn't good enough for rides that include dirt paths or dirt roads. Which is almost inevitable where I live. As I wrote I was not the only one. Back in the 80's many of the more serious riders had Shimano 600 or 600EX. I lived in the Netherlands but close to Germany and Belgium. The riders who only did fitness rounds in Zuid Limburg (Dutch side) didn't have problems with the headset. Belgians and riders like me who ventured out into Belgium had them come loose a lot. Regardless of whether they had Gazelle, Merckx or other frames. The roads over there were often in bad shape, especially in the Wallonie (French-speaking area). Those guys also broke spokes as often as I do. Full confession: I often rode in Belgium because I loved their pubs and the Abbey Ales. Still do. That's why I have a Belgian Tripel carbonating right now and another set of ingredients ready to brew. I'm still wondering about the force generated. Assuming that you are riding "in the bush" and you hit a giant rock. The resulting force is up, trying to move the wheel and fork upward against the weight of the bloated beer drink rider. The force generated is up, against the lower bearing, no force what so ever on the upper race and lock nut. Then after one rebounds from the rock and the bike falls back to earth, with a resounding crash, the force is still taken by the bottom bearing resisting the mass of the bike and rider. Still no force at all against the upper bearing and lock nut. So what is causing the upper race and lock nut to loosen? Too much beer while working on the bike? Black Magic? A headset can loosen due to vibration, but that typically means the lock nut is not tight enough. One could use a more robust threaded headset or a Gorilla Headlock or something like it. The hose-clamp thing is just too trailer park. One thing that I learned early on in bicycling was that offroad just about anything will vibrate loose. Another bike rider who ventured into the woods back then told me to slightly over-torque every connection. That did the trick but does not work for a headset. Joerg could fix all of his headset problems with a properly adjusted $20 headset -- but what fun would that be? It's far more fun to beat it with a rock in the middle of nowhere when it falls apart. It's much more fun to fix it with a $0.50 hose clamp and spend the other $19.50 at a brewpub :-) Some day I will replace the headset but on the priority scale of projects that ranks somewhere between #50 and #100. Because the hose clamp has completely eliminated the need to tighten the headset after every other ride (the ones with the gnarly sections). -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#76
|
|||
|
|||
14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...
On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:43:53 +0700, John B.
wrote: On Tue, 09 May 2017 15:36:02 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 09 May 2017 15:05:56 +0700, John B. wrote: snipped Actually the 265's were the big deal. When they first appeared a fellow installed a bog standard 265 in a gas fuel, non blown, dragster chassis and brought it out to the strip. He whipped every V-8 Ford that would run against him. The next month there were more Chevy engines and it wasn't long before the Ford flat head was a museum item. I suspect that the very first 283's were probably some of the 265 boys that owned a boring bar :-) If it overheated a lot, it was likely a bored 265. The 283 block was modified to allow the larger bore without making the cyl walls too thin. (different sand cores were designed for the castings) Yes, certainly. But when you are only running a quarter of a mile over heating isn't quite as important ;-) In fact there was a guy, in L.A. I believe, that started making solid aluminum "Hemi's" for the "AA fuelers", now called Top Fuel, I believe, which apparently is still the practice today. In the early days the guys running the bored out 365's used to argue that the block was lighter :-) But it was noticeable that they all went to the 283 blocks as soon as then accumulated a bit of spare cash. Then, of course there were those that stroked the 283's :-) And those thatb destroked the 327's - Like the General himself for the Z28 Camaro 302!! |
#77
|
|||
|
|||
14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...
On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 10:28:21 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-10 07:01, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 8:19:22 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Tue, 09 May 2017 11:01:57 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-05-09 06:23, wrote: On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 1:06:01 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 8 May 2017 19:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:10:59 PM UTC-4, wrote: On Mon, 08 May 2017 11:52:58 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2017-05-08 10:55, Sir Ridesalot wrote: [...] At some point in time either you or a shop did something that knackered your top nut on your 600EX headset. I am not the only one who has that problem. Except the others eventually didn't have the bikes anymore, which "fixed" it for them. I keep technical things for a long time. Anyhow, the hose clamp fixes it for me. When I get around to it I'll put in a new non-600 headset. I wonder if someone over tightened Joerg's 600EX headset top nut and stripped it? Or if he has the right top nut on it? ANyhow, lots of them were sold and lots of them were used without Joerg's problem showing up. Joerg seems to think that he's the ONLY ONE who rides a road bike on trails. Cheers Actually I have had the same problem that Joerg has. Adjust and tighten the steering bearings and in a few days the bearings would be loose. A little investigation showed that the top nut instead of bottoming out on the upper bearing race and locking it, it was bottoming out on a very slightly too long steerer tube. I added a washer, perhaps 3/32" thick so the top nut actually tightened against the bearing race and have had no more problems in the last couple of years :-) -- Cheers, John B. I'll bet that this is what Joerg's problem is. It's almost impossible to tell a steering tube that's fractionally too long. Like yours it will appear to tighten up because it will bend just enough to appear to be tight. Then the extra pressure will cause it to loosen up. Got that Joerg? Try a small washer and see if that doesn't solve your problem. I took it apart to make sure there wasn't any other gremlin causing this and everything was alright. The lock nut does push down as it's supposed to do but that just isn't good enough for rides that include dirt paths or dirt roads. Which is almost inevitable where I live. As I wrote I was not the only one. Back in the 80's many of the more serious riders had Shimano 600 or 600EX. I lived in the Netherlands but close to Germany and Belgium. The riders who only did fitness rounds in Zuid Limburg (Dutch side) didn't have problems with the headset. Belgians and riders like me who ventured out into Belgium had them come loose a lot. Regardless of whether they had Gazelle, Merckx or other frames. The roads over there were often in bad shape, especially in the Wallonie (French-speaking area). Those guys also broke spokes as often as I do. Full confession: I often rode in Belgium because I loved their pubs and the Abbey Ales. Still do. That's why I have a Belgian Tripel carbonating right now and another set of ingredients ready to brew. I'm still wondering about the force generated. Assuming that you are riding "in the bush" and you hit a giant rock. The resulting force is up, trying to move the wheel and fork upward against the weight of the bloated beer drink rider. The force generated is up, against the lower bearing, no force what so ever on the upper race and lock nut. Then after one rebounds from the rock and the bike falls back to earth, with a resounding crash, the force is still taken by the bottom bearing resisting the mass of the bike and rider. Still no force at all against the upper bearing and lock nut. So what is causing the upper race and lock nut to loosen? Too much beer while working on the bike? Black Magic? A headset can loosen due to vibration, but that typically means the lock nut is not tight enough. One could use a more robust threaded headset or a Gorilla Headlock or something like it. The hose-clamp thing is just too trailer park. One thing that I learned early on in bicycling was that offroad just about anything will vibrate loose. Another bike rider who ventured into the woods back then told me to slightly over-torque every connection. That did the trick but does not work for a headset. Snipped -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ More utter nonsense Joerg! I have toured on many very rough back roads including fire/logging/mining roadsthat were dirt and stone and rocks and I've NEVER had a headset come loose. Nor have I ever had a headset on my MTB come loose. Why's that you ask? It's because I properly adjust mine before they fail. Sheesh! Cheers |
#78
|
|||
|
|||
14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...
On Wed, 10 May 2017 07:28:24 -0700, Joerg
wrote: One thing that I learned early on in bicycling was that offroad just about anything will vibrate loose. Another bike rider who ventured into the woods back then told me to slightly over-torque every connection. That did the trick but does not work for a headset. One thing that DOES work is the light or medium Loc Tite. Not the stuff you need a torch to release. A drop on every part that might otherwise ahake loos will even keep an old BSA or Norton from shedding parts. Joerg could fix all of his headset problems with a properly adjusted $20 headset -- but what fun would that be? It's far more fun to beat it with a rock in the middle of nowhere when it falls apart. It's much more fun to fix it with a $0.50 hose clamp and spend the other $19.50 at a brewpub :-) Some day I will replace the headset but on the priority scale of projects that ranks somewhere between #50 and #100. Because the hose clamp has completely eliminated the need to tighten the headset after every other ride (the ones with the gnarly sections). |
#79
|
|||
|
|||
14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...
|
#80
|
|||
|
|||
14 year-old Campy Record shifts like new...
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Will Campy hoods for Nuovo Record or Super Record fit on late80s/early 90s levers? | seattlerowe | Techniques | 10 | December 6th 09 04:47 PM |
campy vintage parts, set of brakes, rear derailleur super record,colnago campy seat post | [email protected] | Marketplace | 0 | January 16th 09 03:43 PM |
FA: Campy Record-Mavic Open Pro for Shimano or Campy - 1 day left | RodQ | Marketplace | 0 | May 24th 06 11:15 PM |
FA: Campy Record-Mavic Open Pro for Shimano or Campy | RodQ | Marketplace | 0 | May 21st 06 01:40 AM |
Campy Record Brakes & Campy Chorus 9-spd Cassette on e-bay | Joe Galloway | Marketplace | 0 | February 28th 05 03:20 AM |