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Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 10th 18, 12:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
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Posts: 144
Default Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS (Fatality Analysis Reporting System)

On Sun, 9 Sep 2018 11:45:34 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/9/2018 2:31 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2018 00:02:17 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Sep 2018 16:24:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I take that to indicate that a large number of bicyclists deaths are
the homeless or nearly homeless, drunk or nearly so, and riding
probably at night with no lights.

Or the driver of the motor vehicle was drunk or nearly so.

As for homeless/nearly homeless and/or riding at night without lights,
you are reading into the small amount of information Jute provided.
Perhaps there is more detail in the NHTSA link he provided, which I have
not yet looked at.


A number of surveys of bicycle accidents indicate that as many as
half, or more, involve the cyclist disobeying one traffic regulation,
or another and reports from autopsies of cyclists killed in accidents
showed that (in New York) as many as 21% had been drinking (6% of auto
drivers who were involved in a auto - bicycle accident had been
drinking).

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...v22-story.html
https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2...d-bike-deaths/

It might be noted that these reports are not of the "Well, it is
estimated..." or "It seems as though...", but are statistics, for
example:

"in 2011, officers determined fault in 701 crashes between a bicyclist
and a motorist in which a cyclist was hurt or killed, according to the
reports, submitted to California's Statewide Integrated Traffic
Records System. Cyclists were found to be the party most at fault in
390 of those crashes, or 56 percent of the time, the records show."

It seems odd, to say the least, that these facts, and facts they are,
are never mentioned by bicycle safety advocates.

As Pogo said, "we have met the enemy... and he is us."
(at least 56% of the time)


Year after year, it's been consistently shown that a quarter of dead
bicyclists have been drinking.

Back in 2007 or 2008, Dr. David Crocker of Austin Texas tried a new
tactic in his long-running campaign to get an all-ages mandatory helmet
law enacted. He tracked 200 bicyclists admitted to the local hospital
trauma center. He wanted to prove the relationship between helmet use
and traumatic brain injury (TBI). He also tracked alcohol use.

To his disappointment, he found that alcohol use was strongly correlated
with TBI, but that the presence or absence of a helmet was not
correlated with TBI in a statistically significantly way.

Those who brag about carrying growlers of beer on their bikes should
probably pay attention.


They can carry it... as long as they don;t drink it :-)
Ads
  #22  
Old September 10th 18, 12:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 302
Default Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)

On Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 3:55:31 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 9:19:34 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 4:58:33 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, September 7, 2018 at 12:24:47 AM UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 11:18:17 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
The      US national road safety facts for 2016 were published in May 2018 but I haven't seen them mentioned here yet. From the FARS (Fatality Analysis Reporting System):

Overview:
• In 2016, there were 840 pedalcyclists killed in motor vehicle traffic crashes in the United States, an increase from 829 in 2015. Pedalcyclist deaths accounted for 2.2 percent of all motor vehicle traffic fatalities (Table 1).
• The number of pedalcyclists killed in 2016 is 1.3 percent higher than the 829 pedalcyclists killed in 2015.

Key Findings:
• There were 840 pedal cyclist deaths in 2016, which accounted for 2.2 percent of all traffic fatali- ties during the year.
• Seventy-one percent of pedal cyclists who died in motor vehicle crashes in 2016 died in crashes in urban areas.
• From 2007 to 2016, the average age of pedal cyclists killed in motor vehicle crashes increased from 40 to 46.
• The pedal cyclist fatality rate per million people was 5.6 times higher for males than females in 2016.
• Alcohol involvement—either for the motor vehicle operator or for the pedalcyclist—was reported in 35 percent of all fatal pedal cyclist crashes in 2016.
• More than 26 percent of the pedal cyclists who died in 2016 had blood alcohol concentrations (BACs) of .01 g/dL or greater.

See much more analysis via the DOT portal at: https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api...ication/812507

Andre Jute
The facts illuminate and calm emotions

I take that to indicate that a large number of bicyclists deaths are the homeless or nearly homeless, drunk or nearly so, and riding probably at night with no lights.

Unless you cite a verifiable authority or analysis from linked studies, that's just straightforward slander. It's also a regular mantra from the nastiest of the local AHZ.

Andre Jute


What do you need Andre? The article shows 71% in urban areas, 62% not at an intersection or in a bicycle lane and 49% after dark or at dawn or dusk. Do you find that hard to interpret or is it simply your position that anyone other than me can use deductive reasoning?


Come off it, Tom; you know better than to think I'd pick on you for no reason at all. The thing is, for a radical conclusion such as yours, you need more than one supporting reference point. This is especially true in this forum because the execrable Krygowski, a generally unreliable witness and wannabe polemicist of unbelievable malice, has long sullied the water with pejorative exaggerations about cycle fatalities. There's another one of Krygowski's distortions just yesterday, where he inflated the 21% that you quoted to "a quarter".


Of course Andre, but you are resisting facts because your BELIEFS are different. This is exactly what today's media is doing with Trump.

They hate the made DESOITE the fact that he is doing EXACTLY what he promised to do except for building the wall. And they are APPLAUDING NOT BUILDING THE WALL even though we have some 30,000,000 illegal aliens here and some 700,000 falsely obtained H1B visas obtained each year. Fully 10% of those visas go to people for the high tech industry in Silicon Valley. They cannot do the jobs since a large number of them have counterfeit credentials and they simply disappear into the population.

And WHY do they hate him? Because he doesn't believe in socialism. And he is destroying the Deep State. The facts are that this is improving the lives of the very media monsters who are attempting to destroy Trump but since their beliefs do not allow them to recognize such they continue to attack him from a false position.
  #23  
Old September 10th 18, 12:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,783
Default Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)

On Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 9:41:45 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 10:10:18 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 4:45:39 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/9/2018 2:31 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

or another and reports from autopsies of cyclists killed in accidents
showed that (in New York) as many as 21% had been drinking (

Year after year, it's been consistently shown that a quarter of dead
bicyclists have been drinking.


John's "as many as 21%" is nearer to a fifth than your inflated "quarter". Show us proof, Franki-boy, not your prejudices. Oh, and "consistently" requires several separate, independent pieces of proof.

It's this sort of hostile exaggeration that causes other cyclists to consider you an enemy of cycling, Franki-boy.

Andre Jute
Cycling is definitely kinder to your knees than jogging


Andre, I don't know where you live but it is pretty much a common problem in California that we have homeless encampments everywhere. Until they finally cleaned it up after months there was one in Oakland three blocks from city hall. All of these people ride bicycles everywhere and these are eventually cleaned out not because of the horror of that many homeless being on the streets but because of used hypodermic needles in large piles and the sidewalks being covered with human feces. If they clean out an encampment of 50 people they are likely to find 1,000 bicycles mostly stolen and broken down. Do you live on Mars? The city allows this sort of thing when they could put portapoties there and clean them daily for a pittance what it eventually costs.


You should take that up with the council, Tom.

Do you live on Mars?


That's funny. I live in an area where "crime" is a council employee starting cutting the hedgerows back from the lanes before 1 October. Maybe somebody let her dog poop on the sidewalk a few years ago. But hey, there was a murder here once, when two dumb Poles murdered a third one, and threw the body into the river within sight of the police headquarters for the region. The crime was solved the same day before I even got out of bed, so I missed all the excitement. There is so little violent crime in my country, the state pathologist, singular, arrived from the capital by helicopter -- and it turned out she's only a part-timer.

Andre Jute
Martian
  #24  
Old September 10th 18, 12:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,783
Default Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)

On Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 9:26:42 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 10:03:20 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 7:31:12 AM UTC+1, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2018 00:02:17 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Sep 2018 16:24:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I take that to indicate that a large number of bicyclists deaths are
the homeless or nearly homeless, drunk or nearly so, and riding
probably at night with no lights.

Or the driver of the motor vehicle was drunk or nearly so.

As for homeless/nearly homeless and/or riding at night without lights,
you are reading into the small amount of information Jute provided.
Perhaps there is more detail in the NHTSA link he provided, which I have
not yet looked at.

A number of surveys of bicycle accidents indicate that as many as
half, or more, involve the cyclist disobeying one traffic regulation,
or another and reports from autopsies of cyclists killed in accidents
showed that (in New York) as many as 21% had been drinking (6% of auto
drivers who were involved in a auto - bicycle accident had been
drinking).

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...v22-story.html
https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2...d-bike-deaths/

It might be noted that these reports are not of the "Well, it is
estimated..." or "It seems as though...", but are statistics, for
example:

"in 2011, officers determined fault in 701 crashes between a bicyclist
and a motorist in which a cyclist was hurt or killed, according to the
reports, submitted to California's Statewide Integrated Traffic
Records System. Cyclists were found to be the party most at fault in
390 of those crashes, or 56 percent of the time, the records show."

It seems odd, to say the least, that these facts, and facts they are,
are never mentioned by bicycle safety advocates.

As Pogo said, "we have met the enemy... and he is us."
(at least 56% of the time)


Exactly. I would regard these "The dead cyclist was drunk" reports with some suspicion when they come from a motorist's mouth, even when I accept other data from the same report. The cyclist, being dead, is by definition not there to deny the accusation, and the motorist may use it as exoneration. On the other hand, a pathologist's report that the cyclist showed on analysis a particular blood alcohol dose falls clearly in a more reliable class of data.

Andre Jute
Statistics sooner or later becomes bias confirmation, but only after people changed their minds on hand of statistics. -- Andre Jute, Chairman's valedictory to MASA


Where do you believe that a cyclist death would not end in a trial?


First of all, I didn't say that; I was talking about applying my vast experience in statistics to the differential credibility of aggregated data. But since you ask your question in such an aggressive manner, here we go: In great Britain, for instance, where the coroner may well, and often does decide it was simply an accident, in the majority of cases no trial follows. The Crown Prosecution Service is not obliged to accept the Coroner's verdict, but most often they do, and then no prosecution is brought and no trial is held. In Ireland, where I live, the police may decide the evidence points to an honest accident, and again no trial will result. In the United States, an evaluation will be made of the police report in the DA's office, and no prosecution may result. That's in your own country, Tom.

And in what country do you believe that a motorist's word of a cyclist being drunk or drugged would be acceptable as evidence?


I didn't say that either, but I'll answer anyway. I don't know anything about being drugged; it wasn't a problem in any country I've cycled in. However, in almost any country where the motorist is the only surviving witness to the incident, the motorist's word will carry undue weight. To a motorist without experience of a pedal bikes, the weaving of a cyclist as he presses on up a steep hill can easily look like intoxication.

Andre Jute
Eminently reasonable
  #25  
Old September 10th 18, 01:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,417
Default Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)

On Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 4:18:44 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 3:55:31 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 9:19:34 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 4:58:33 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, September 7, 2018 at 12:24:47 AM UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 11:18:17 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
The      US national road safety facts for 2016 were published in May 2018 but I haven't seen them mentioned here yet. From the FARS (Fatality Analysis Reporting System):

Overview:
• In 2016, there were 840 pedalcyclists killed in motor vehicle traffic crashes in the United States, an increase from 829 in 2015.. Pedalcyclist deaths accounted for 2.2 percent of all motor vehicle traffic fatalities (Table 1).
• The number of pedalcyclists killed in 2016 is 1.3 percent higher than the 829 pedalcyclists killed in 2015.

Key Findings:
• There were 840 pedal cyclist deaths in 2016, which accounted for 2.2 percent of all traffic fatali- ties during the year.
• Seventy-one percent of pedal cyclists who died in motor vehicle crashes in 2016 died in crashes in urban areas.
• From 2007 to 2016, the average age of pedal cyclists killed in motor vehicle crashes increased from 40 to 46.
• The pedal cyclist fatality rate per million people was 5.6 times higher for males than females in 2016.
• Alcohol involvement—either for the motor vehicle operator or for the pedalcyclist—was reported in 35 percent of all fatal pedal cyclist crashes in 2016.
• More than 26 percent of the pedal cyclists who died in 2016 had blood alcohol concentrations (BACs) of .01 g/dL or greater.

See much more analysis via the DOT portal at: https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api...ication/812507

Andre Jute
The facts illuminate and calm emotions

I take that to indicate that a large number of bicyclists deaths are the homeless or nearly homeless, drunk or nearly so, and riding probably at night with no lights.

Unless you cite a verifiable authority or analysis from linked studies, that's just straightforward slander. It's also a regular mantra from the nastiest of the local AHZ.

Andre Jute

What do you need Andre? The article shows 71% in urban areas, 62% not at an intersection or in a bicycle lane and 49% after dark or at dawn or dusk. Do you find that hard to interpret or is it simply your position that anyone other than me can use deductive reasoning?


Come off it, Tom; you know better than to think I'd pick on you for no reason at all. The thing is, for a radical conclusion such as yours, you need more than one supporting reference point. This is especially true in this forum because the execrable Krygowski, a generally unreliable witness and wannabe polemicist of unbelievable malice, has long sullied the water with pejorative exaggerations about cycle fatalities. There's another one of Krygowski's distortions just yesterday, where he inflated the 21% that you quoted to "a quarter".


Of course Andre, but you are resisting facts because your BELIEFS are different. This is exactly what today's media is doing with Trump.

They hate the made DESOITE the fact that he is doing EXACTLY what he promised to do except for building the wall. And they are APPLAUDING NOT BUILDING THE WALL even though we have some 30,000,000 illegal aliens here and some 700,000 falsely obtained H1B visas obtained each year. Fully 10% of those visas go to people for the high tech industry in Silicon Valley. They cannot do the jobs since a large number of them have counterfeit credentials and they simply disappear into the population.

And WHY do they hate him? Because he doesn't believe in socialism. And he is destroying the Deep State. The facts are that this is improving the lives of the very media monsters who are attempting to destroy Trump but since their beliefs do not allow them to recognize such they continue to attack him from a false position.


Comrade, wait until Trump digs down and weeds out the massive socialist programs that are Social Security and Medicare. You better hope the Deep State covers your back on those.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #26  
Old September 10th 18, 01:12 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,755
Default Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)

On 9/9/2018 7:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 4:18:44 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 3:55:31 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 9:19:34 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 4:58:33 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, September 7, 2018 at 12:24:47 AM UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 11:18:17 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
The      US national road safety facts for 2016 were published in May 2018 but I haven't seen them mentioned here yet. From the FARS (Fatality Analysis Reporting System):

Overview:
• In 2016, there were 840 pedalcyclists killed in motor vehicle traffic crashes in the United States, an increase from 829 in 2015. Pedalcyclist deaths accounted for 2.2 percent of all motor vehicle traffic fatalities (Table 1).
• The number of pedalcyclists killed in 2016 is 1.3 percent higher than the 829 pedalcyclists killed in 2015.

Key Findings:
• There were 840 pedal cyclist deaths in 2016, which accounted for 2.2 percent of all traffic fatali- ties during the year.
• Seventy-one percent of pedal cyclists who died in motor vehicle crashes in 2016 died in crashes in urban areas.
• From 2007 to 2016, the average age of pedal cyclists killed in motor vehicle crashes increased from 40 to 46.
• The pedal cyclist fatality rate per million people was 5.6 times higher for males than females in 2016.
• Alcohol involvement—either for the motor vehicle operator or for the pedalcyclist—was reported in 35 percent of all fatal pedal cyclist crashes in 2016.
• More than 26 percent of the pedal cyclists who died in 2016 had blood alcohol concentrations (BACs) of .01 g/dL or greater.

See much more analysis via the DOT portal at: https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api...ication/812507

Andre Jute
The facts illuminate and calm emotions

I take that to indicate that a large number of bicyclists deaths are the homeless or nearly homeless, drunk or nearly so, and riding probably at night with no lights.

Unless you cite a verifiable authority or analysis from linked studies, that's just straightforward slander. It's also a regular mantra from the nastiest of the local AHZ.

Andre Jute

What do you need Andre? The article shows 71% in urban areas, 62% not at an intersection or in a bicycle lane and 49% after dark or at dawn or dusk. Do you find that hard to interpret or is it simply your position that anyone other than me can use deductive reasoning?

Come off it, Tom; you know better than to think I'd pick on you for no reason at all. The thing is, for a radical conclusion such as yours, you need more than one supporting reference point. This is especially true in this forum because the execrable Krygowski, a generally unreliable witness and wannabe polemicist of unbelievable malice, has long sullied the water with pejorative exaggerations about cycle fatalities. There's another one of Krygowski's distortions just yesterday, where he inflated the 21% that you quoted to "a quarter".


Of course Andre, but you are resisting facts because your BELIEFS are different. This is exactly what today's media is doing with Trump.

They hate the made DESOITE the fact that he is doing EXACTLY what he promised to do except for building the wall. And they are APPLAUDING NOT BUILDING THE WALL even though we have some 30,000,000 illegal aliens here and some 700,000 falsely obtained H1B visas obtained each year. Fully 10% of those visas go to people for the high tech industry in Silicon Valley. They cannot do the jobs since a large number of them have counterfeit credentials and they simply disappear into the population.

And WHY do they hate him? Because he doesn't believe in socialism. And he is destroying the Deep State. The facts are that this is improving the lives of the very media monsters who are attempting to destroy Trump but since their beliefs do not allow them to recognize such they continue to attack him from a false position.


Comrade, wait until Trump digs down and weeds out the massive socialist programs that are Social Security and Medicare. You better hope the Deep State covers your back on those.



I heartily agree with you, Jay. I never understood 'big
government out of my SS check." WTF? Are people really that
stupid or venal?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #27  
Old September 10th 18, 01:41 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,316
Default Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)

On 9/9/2018 8:12 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/9/2018 7:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 4:18:44 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 3:55:31 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 9:19:34 PM UTC+1,
wrote:
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 4:58:33 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, September 7, 2018 at 12:24:47 AM UTC+1,
wrote:
On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 11:18:17 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute
wrote:
The
     US
national road safety facts for 2016 were published in May 2018
but I haven't seen them mentioned here yet. From the FARS
(Fatality Analysis Reporting System):

Overview:
• In 2016, there were 840 pedalcyclists killed in motor
vehicle traffic crashes in the United States, an increase from
829 in 2015. Pedalcyclist deaths accounted for 2.2 percent of
all motor vehicle traffic fatalities (Table 1).
• The number of pedalcyclists killed in 2016 is 1.3 percent
higher than the 829 pedalcyclists killed in 2015.

Key Findings:
• There were 840 pedal cyclist deaths in 2016, which accounted
for 2.2 percent of all traffic fatali- ties during the year.
• Seventy-one percent of pedal cyclists who died in motor
vehicle crashes in 2016 died in crashes in urban areas.
• From 2007 to 2016, the average age of pedal cyclists killed
in motor vehicle crashes increased from 40 to 46.
• The* pedal cyclist fatality rate per million people was 5.6
times higher for males than females in 2016.
• Alcohol involvement—either for the motor vehicle operator
or for the pedalcyclist—was reported in 35 percent of all
fatal pedal cyclist crashes in 2016.
• More than 26 percent of the pedal cyclists who died in 2016
had blood alcohol concentrations (BACs) of .01 g/dL or greater.

See much more analysis via the DOT portal at:
https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api...ication/812507

Andre Jute
The facts illuminate and calm emotions

I take that to indicate that a large number of bicyclists deaths
are the homeless or nearly homeless, drunk or nearly so, and
riding probably at night with no lights.

Unless you cite a verifiable authority or analysis from linked
studies, that's just straightforward slander. It's also a regular
mantra from the nastiest of the local AHZ.

Andre Jute

What do you need Andre? The article shows 71% in urban areas, 62%
not at an intersection or in a bicycle lane and 49% after dark or
at dawn or dusk. Do you find that hard to interpret or is it simply
your position that anyone other than me can use deductive reasoning?

Come off it, Tom; you know better than to think I'd pick on you for
no reason at all. The thing is, for a radical conclusion such as
yours, you need more than one supporting reference point. This is
especially true in this forum because the execrable Krygowski, a
generally unreliable witness and wannabe polemicist of unbelievable
malice, has long sullied the water with pejorative exaggerations
about cycle fatalities. There's another one of Krygowski's
distortions just yesterday, where he inflated the 21% that you
quoted to "a quarter".

Of course Andre, but you are resisting facts because your BELIEFS are
different. This is exactly what today's media is doing with Trump.

They hate the made DESOITE the fact that he is doing EXACTLY what he
promised to do except for building the wall. And they are APPLAUDING
NOT BUILDING THE WALL even though we have some 30,000,000 illegal
aliens here and some 700,000 falsely obtained H1B visas obtained each
year. Fully 10% of those visas go to people for the high tech
industry in Silicon Valley. They cannot do the jobs since a large
number of them have counterfeit credentials and they simply disappear
into the population.

And WHY do they hate him? Because he doesn't believe in socialism.
And he is destroying the Deep State. The facts are that this is
improving the lives of the very media monsters who are attempting to
destroy Trump but since their beliefs do not allow them to recognize
such they continue to attack him from a false position.


Comrade, wait until Trump digs down and weeds out the massive
socialist programs that are Social Security and Medicare. You better
hope the Deep State covers your back on those.



I heartily agree with you, Jay. I never understood 'big government out
of my SS check." WTF? Are people really that stupid or venal?


Umm... Yes.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #28  
Old September 10th 18, 02:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,783
Default Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)

On Monday, September 10, 2018 at 1:12:58 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/9/2018 7:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:

Comrade, wait until Trump digs down and weeds out the massive socialist programs that are Social Security and Medicare. You better hope the Deep State covers your back on those.


I heartily agree with you, Jay. I never understood 'big
government out of my SS check." WTF? Are people really that
stupid or venal?


Trump's a populist conservative -- tricky to understand but true! He has no interest in "weeding out" Social Security and Medicare programs. The question is whether he has the attention span to reform them even to extent that Bill Clinton managed to reform them.

Before the election I said that putting up Clinton and Trump as their respective nominees was an insult from the two main American political parties to the American electorate. I've changed my mind. Trump has turned out to be a superb manager of the nation's affairs. I think Americans lucked out; Clinton would have been a disaster. So what if Trump's behavior is not statesmanlike: that's just the swamp, which the electorate licensed Trump to fill in, trying to impose their rules on him. Republicans and the media screamed to high heaven that it was "common" for FDR to go on the radio and address the American people directly.

Andre Jute
Screw them into the ground, Mr President

  #29  
Old September 10th 18, 01:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 193
Default Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)

On 09/09/2018 2:31 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2018 00:02:17 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Sep 2018 16:24:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I take that to indicate that a large number of bicyclists deaths are
the homeless or nearly homeless, drunk or nearly so, and riding
probably at night with no lights.


Or the driver of the motor vehicle was drunk or nearly so.

As for homeless/nearly homeless and/or riding at night without lights,
you are reading into the small amount of information Jute provided.
Perhaps there is more detail in the NHTSA link he provided, which I have
not yet looked at.


A number of surveys of bicycle accidents indicate that as many as
half, or more, involve the cyclist disobeying one traffic regulation,
or another and reports from autopsies of cyclists killed in accidents
showed that (in New York) as many as 21% had been drinking (6% of auto
drivers who were involved in a auto - bicycle accident had been
drinking).

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...v22-story.html
https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2...d-bike-deaths/

It might be noted that these reports are not of the "Well, it is
estimated..." or "It seems as though...", but are statistics, for
example:

"in 2011, officers determined fault in 701 crashes between a bicyclist
and a motorist in which a cyclist was hurt or killed, according to the
reports, submitted to California's Statewide Integrated Traffic
Records System. Cyclists were found to be the party most at fault in
390 of those crashes, or 56 percent of the time, the records show."

It seems odd, to say the least, that these facts, and facts they are,
are never mentioned by bicycle safety advocates.

As Pogo said, "we have met the enemy... and he is us."
(at least 56% of the time)


Why are you surprised that with auto/bicycle accidents in one study it
indicates that the fault is mostly evenly distributed? I don't get your
point.

Accidents happen. Painting cyclists that are victims of accidents as
incompetent drunks serves what purpose?
  #30  
Old September 10th 18, 05:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,316
Default Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)

On 9/10/2018 8:55 AM, Duane wrote:
On 09/09/2018 2:31 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2018 00:02:17 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Sep 2018 16:24:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I take that to indicate that a large number of bicyclists deaths are
the homeless or nearly homeless, drunk or nearly so, and riding
probably at night with no lights.

Or the driver of the motor vehicle was drunk or nearly so.

As for homeless/nearly homeless and/or riding at night without lights,
you are reading into the small amount of information Jute provided.
Perhaps there is more detail in the NHTSA link he provided, which I have
not yet looked at.


A number of surveys of bicycle accidents indicate that as many as
half, or more, involve the cyclist disobeying one traffic regulation,
or another and reports from autopsies of cyclists killed in accidents
showed that (in New York) as many as 21% had been drinking (6% of auto
drivers who were involved in a auto - bicycle accident had been
drinking).

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...v22-story.html

https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2...d-bike-deaths/


It might be noted that these reports are not of the "Well, it is
estimated..." or "It seems as though...", but are statistics, for
example:

"in 2011, officers determined fault in 701 crashes between a bicyclist
and a motorist in which a cyclist was hurt or killed, according to the
reports, submitted to California's Statewide Integrated Traffic
Records System. Cyclists were found to be the party most at fault in
390 of those crashes, or 56 percent of the time, the records show."

It seems odd, to say the least, that these facts, and facts they are,
are never mentioned by bicycle safety advocates.

As Pogo said, "we have met the enemy... and he is us."
(at least 56% of the time)


Why are you surprised that with auto/bicycle accidents in one study it
indicates that the fault is mostly evenly distributed?* I don't get your
point.

Accidents happen.* Painting cyclists that are victims of accidents as
incompetent drunks serves what purpose?


Personally, I think some people do need negative reinforcement. That
includes bad or aggressive drivers, but it also includes bicyclists who
ride drunk, ride with no lights at night, ride facing traffic or do
other blatantly stupid things.

Why do I care? Because there are enough of those bicyclists that the
"Danger! Danger!" people propose stupidly draconian measures to remedy
the supposed dangers to _all_ cyclists. Measures proposed or enacted
have included forcing every cyclist to always wear a helmet; making it
illegal to leave a bike lane, even a terrible one; making it illegal to
ride on any road whose speed limit is 35 mph or more; requiring a
minimum number of square inches of hi-viz fabric on every bicyclist's
clothing; designing cattle chutes that hide bicyclists from view until
they zoom across an intersection from a "surprise!" direction; and many
more.

In the broadest statistical sense - either miles ridden per fatality, or
benefits vs. risks - _average_ cycling is already very safe. Estimates
for the U.S., Canada, Britain and Australia exceed ten million miles
ridden between fatalities, and every study done on the topic has
concluded cycling's benefits _greatly_ outweigh its risks.

Those data are based on _average_ cycling, so they include the drunks,
nighttime ninja cyclists, wrong-way riders, etc. If we could get data on
the the truly competent cyclists, I'm sure cycling would look even better.

So when someone screws up, it should be pointed out. Again, some people
need negative reinforcement.

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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