A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Buy that wheelbuilder a drink!



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old September 27th 18, 05:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 196
Default Buy that wheelbuilder a drink!

On 27/09/2018 11:59 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 10:52:11 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1/2018/09/24/21/4517082-6202141-One_man_was_spotted_in_despair_after_his_car_was_b adly_damaged_b-a-200_1537819759698.jpg

The tire doesn’t look flat to me. Not even on the bottom.


Try looking at the original Daily Mail photo. Here's a 4X enlargement
of the tire contact area:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/fixie-crunch-02.jpg
It might not be flat, but rather the weight of the vehicle might be
pushing down on the rear wheel. Or, it might be an indication of a
Photoshop edit. The tire doesn't look quite right to be a flat tire,
which would show parts of the tire pushed outward to both sides of the
contact area. However, I'm not familiar with that style of rim, so I
don't know how the tube and tire will act when flat.


Looks more like an uneven road section in this picture.
Ads
  #12  
Old September 27th 18, 09:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 219
Default Buy that wheelbuilder a drink!

Jeff Liebermann:
On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 10:52:11 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:


https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1/2018/09/24/21/4517082-6202141-One_man_was_spotted_in_despair_after_his_car_was_b adly_damaged_b-a-200_1537819759698.jpg

The tire doesn’t look flat to me. Not even on the bottom.


Try looking at the original Daily Mail photo.


The original, original photograph is more than a year older. Despite some
larger file sizes from around May 2017, not much difference when enlarged,
IMHO.

Here's a 4X enlargement
of the tire contact area:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/fixie-crunch-02.jpg
It might not be flat, but rather the weight of the vehicle might be
pushing down on the rear wheel. Or, it might be an indication of a
Photoshop edit.


Good luck finding out more...
http://fotoforensics.com/tutorial-ela.php

The tire doesn't look quite right to be a flat tire,
which would show parts of the tire pushed outward to both sides of the
contact area.


Lack of flattened tire visibly pushed outward might be explained by
relatively wide rim or the plasti-car not only pushing down, but also
pushing the rim a bit to starboard.

However, I'm not familiar with that style of rim, so I
don't know how the tube and tire will act when flat.


+1.
  #13  
Old September 28th 18, 05:46 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,909
Default Buy that wheelbuilder a drink!

On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 22:56:05 +0200, Sepp Ruf
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann:
On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 10:52:11 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:


https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1/2018/09/24/21/4517082-6202141-One_man_was_spotted_in_despair_after_his_car_was_b adly_damaged_b-a-200_1537819759698.jpg

The tire doesnt look flat to me. Not even on the bottom.


Try looking at the original Daily Mail photo.


The original, original photograph is more than a year older. Despite some
larger file sizes from around May 2017, not much difference when enlarged,
IMHO.


If you searched for the image using Google image search, it produced
176 unique version of the image, which means someone edited it and
change the image size to something unique during the edit. I didn't
bother counting how many non-unique versions were out there.

However, they the images seems to be rather recent, generally within a
week. The May 2017 version that you found is actually the date on the
picture gallery or web page where the image was displayed. Since the
EXIF data is missing form the image, it defaults to the date from the
web page.

Here's a 4X enlargement
of the tire contact area:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/fixie-crunch-02.jpg
It might not be flat, but rather the weight of the vehicle might be
pushing down on the rear wheel. Or, it might be an indication of a
Photoshop edit.


Good luck finding out more...
http://fotoforensics.com/tutorial-ela.php


That URL doesn't work. It spins for a while and then times out. I
think the server might be down.

I won't claim to know the first thing about image forensics, but will
claim that I'm fairly good at picking out details from photos and such
(due to a few years in the advertising business doing mostly
subliminals).

The tire doesn't look quite right to be a flat tire,
which would show parts of the tire pushed outward to both sides of the
contact area.


Lack of flattened tire visibly pushed outward might be explained by
relatively wide rim or the plasti-car not only pushing down, but also
pushing the rim a bit to starboard.


Yep. There's also what might be a small depression in the road that
might be hiding only the tire. However, I find it odd that the
depression is exactly the correct depth needed to hide only the tire
and not the rim.

However, I'm not familiar with that style of rim, so I
don't know how the tube and tire will act when flat.


+1.


Yep.
True confessions of a bicycle forensics amateur:
1. I've never ridden a fixie.
2. I've seen rims like that but have never played with one or ridden
on one.
3. My attention to photographic detail sometimes causes me to see
things that aren't there. That's the price of having a good
imagination.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #14  
Old September 28th 18, 09:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 219
Default Buy that wheelbuilder a drink!

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 22:56:05 +0200, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Thu, 27 Sep 2018 10:52:11 -0000 (UTC), Duane wrote:


https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1/2018/09/24/21/4517082-6202141-One_man_was_spotted_in_despair_after_his_car_was_b adly_damaged_b-a-200_1537819759698.jpg

The tire doesn’t look flat to me. Not even on the bottom.

Try looking at the original Daily Mail photo.


The original, original photograph is more than a year older. Despite some
larger file sizes from around May 2017, not much difference when enlarged,
IMHO.


If you searched for the image using Google image search,


It was tineye, but after quickly giving up because the "larger versions"
didn't seem to show more detail or the full front wheel, I did miss the
point about irrelevant page dates you nicely explain:

it produced
176 unique version of the image, which means someone edited it and
change the image size to something unique during the edit. I didn't
bother counting how many non-unique versions were out there.

However, they the images seems to be rather recent, generally within a
week. The May 2017 version that you found is actually the date on the
picture gallery or web page where the image was displayed. Since the
EXIF data is missing form the image, it defaults to the date from the
web page.

Here's a 4X enlargement
of the tire contact area:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/fixie-crunch-02.jpg
It might not be flat, but rather the weight of the vehicle might be
pushing down on the rear wheel. Or, it might be an indication of a
Photoshop edit.


Good luck finding out more...
http://fotoforensics.com/tutorial-ela.php


That URL doesn't work. It spins for a while and then times out. I
think the server might be down.


Sorry about that. All I can say is that it wants scripting enabled and that
the area of the wheel-road interface does not seem to exhibit abnormalities
different from the rest of the bike.

E.g., a touch-up of the upper eyelashes
http://fotoforensics.com/img/sample01.jpg
is deemed to be visible studying this error level analysis graphic:
http://fotoforensics.com/img/sample01-ela.png

I won't claim to know the first thing about image forensics, but will
claim that I'm fairly good at picking out details from photos and such
(due to a few years in the advertising business doing mostly
subliminals).


That site got a bit of prominence when a "press photo of the year" looked
doctored and the winner "forgot" to bring the raw file, and then when
spotting tank trails and BUKs in the Ukraine-Russian conflict zone was all
the rage.

The tire doesn't look quite right to be a flat tire,
which would show parts of the tire pushed outward to both sides of the
contact area.


Lack of flattened tire visibly pushed outward might be explained by
relatively wide rim or the plasti-car not only pushing down, but also
pushing the rim a bit to starboard.


Yep. There's also what might be a small depression in the road that
might be hiding only the tire. However, I find it odd that the
depression is exactly the correct depth needed to hide only the tire
and not the rim.


If I knew the city and the language and wasn't afraid of getting any visa
application denied in the future, I'd _flatly_ complain to the department of
road works for interfering with our investigation.
  #15  
Old September 28th 18, 04:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 334
Default Buy that wheelbuilder a drink!

On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 6:45:48 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 26 Sep 2018 16:23:21 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, September 26, 2018 at 10:12:40 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2018 19:05:55 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1/2018/09/...7819759698.jpg

Nice job!

Impressive, but also slightly misleading. The mangled plastic or
vinyl "bumper cover" is mostly cosmetic, not structural. Behind it is
a rectangular cross section pipe that serves as the real bumper. Any
impact is absorbed by either shock absorbers, or blocks of foam. The
other function of the bumper cover is to ride up and over anything it
hits. Hitting a high curb or another car transfers less energy if the
car rides up and over whatever was hit. That's my guess(tm) what
happened here. The bumper cover was in the process of riding up and
over the bicycle rear wheel. Apparently, there was enough crush depth
in the bumper cover to not lift the front to the car off the ground.
Had that happened, methinks the rear bicycle wheel would have potato
chipped or been squashed.


Also if you look at it you can see that the rear wheel on the fixy
is mangled and the spokes are broken.


I beg to differ. The rear wheel looks fine although the rear tire is
flat. It's kinda difficult to see all the spokes, so I did some image
enhancement (contrast and gamma) to favor the spokes and reversed the
colors to make the spokes easier to see. In my never humble opinion,
all the spokes look intact:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/fixie-crunch.jpg
Which spokes are broken?


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


I'll agree that it is difficult to discern but you can't REALLY believe that that much damage was done to that car and the wheel is unharmed?
  #16  
Old September 28th 18, 05:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,909
Default Buy that wheelbuilder a drink!

On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:19:17 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I'll agree that it is difficult to discern but you can't REALLY
believe that that much damage was done to that car and the
wheel is unharmed?


So how would I fake such an accident? First, I would smash a car into
a post a few times to produce a suitable dent. Each time, I would
trial fit the rear wheel of the bicycle into the dent and take some
test photos. I would need a supply of spare plastic or vinyl bumper
protectors in case the dent did not quite match the bicycle. Probably
several cameras to take the photo from different angles. Some
Photoshop work on the best photos and send the photo to the media.
Destroy all the other photos to make sure nobody gets any evidence of
how it was done. Yes, it can be faked, but why bother?

Or, it could have been coincidence. Someone smashed their car into a
pole or something. Bicycle rider comes along and notices that his
bicycle will fit nicely into the smashed in front bumper cover. Take
a few photos and off to the media. Actually, I would have taken
several photos using much better quality and higher resolution than
what I've found on the internet, which makes me suspect this theory is
unlikely.

Anyway, notice something missing?
There's no skid mark on the pavement behind the rear tire.
Also, the patch in or on the pavement near the rear wheel looks like a
bad touchup job to hide an inconveniently placed shadow.



--
Jeff Liebermann

150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #17  
Old September 28th 18, 06:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 334
Default Buy that wheelbuilder a drink!

On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 9:13:14 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2018 08:19:17 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I'll agree that it is difficult to discern but you can't REALLY
believe that that much damage was done to that car and the
wheel is unharmed?


So how would I fake such an accident? First, I would smash a car into
a post a few times to produce a suitable dent. Each time, I would
trial fit the rear wheel of the bicycle into the dent and take some
test photos. I would need a supply of spare plastic or vinyl bumper
protectors in case the dent did not quite match the bicycle. Probably
several cameras to take the photo from different angles. Some
Photoshop work on the best photos and send the photo to the media.
Destroy all the other photos to make sure nobody gets any evidence of
how it was done. Yes, it can be faked, but why bother?

Or, it could have been coincidence. Someone smashed their car into a
pole or something. Bicycle rider comes along and notices that his
bicycle will fit nicely into the smashed in front bumper cover. Take
a few photos and off to the media. Actually, I would have taken
several photos using much better quality and higher resolution than
what I've found on the internet, which makes me suspect this theory is
unlikely.

Anyway, notice something missing?
There's no skid mark on the pavement behind the rear tire.
Also, the patch in or on the pavement near the rear wheel looks like a
bad touchup job to hide an inconveniently placed shadow.


Jeff - I want you to think of this - that's an Illinois license plate. If that actually occurred why would it not be all over national news? It wouldn't be very difficult to fake simply by the car running into something like a fire hydrant and the cyclist getting a flat from the glass on the road and doing that while someone else took the picture as a joke.
  #18  
Old September 30th 18, 09:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 68
Default Buy that wheelbuilder a drink!

On Tuesday, September 25, 2018 at 7:06:01 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1/2018/09/...7819759698.jpg

Nice job!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I think the photo is fake.

The impact would have forced the bike forward.

Andy
  #19  
Old October 1st 18, 07:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 334
Default Buy that wheelbuilder a drink!

On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 1:28:16 PM UTC-7, Andy wrote:
On Tuesday, September 25, 2018 at 7:06:01 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1/2018/09/...7819759698.jpg

Nice job!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I think the photo is fake.

The impact would have forced the bike forward.

Andy


I would have checked it with Snopes but they have banned me for proving that they are politically motivated on a high percentage of their "fact checks".
  #20  
Old October 1st 18, 08:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,771
Default Buy that wheelbuilder a drink!

On Monday, October 1, 2018 at 2:53:32 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sunday, September 30, 2018 at 1:28:16 PM UTC-7, Andy wrote:
On Tuesday, September 25, 2018 at 7:06:01 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1/2018/09/...7819759698.jpg

Nice job!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


I think the photo is fake.

The impact would have forced the bike forward.

Andy


I would have checked it with Snopes but they have banned me for proving that they are politically motivated on a high percentage of their "fact checks".


I didn't find anything on Snopes but I found this very similar image from 2012

https://jalopnik.com/5918071/look-at...is-chinese-car

Also found on reditt

https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comment..._a_germanmade/

Cheers
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rec? wheelbuilder in SF Bay Area m&m Techniques 2 November 13th 07 03:09 PM
Atlanta wheelbuilder mike[_5_] Techniques 6 August 31st 07 01:00 AM
DFW Wheelbuilder? Not LBS? Hell and High Water Techniques 19 October 17th 05 05:54 PM
Looking for a Wheelbuilder Wasatch5k Techniques 9 February 10th 05 02:29 AM
Perth: Good Wheelbuilder [email protected] Australia 7 July 28th 04 11:34 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.