So you admit HIKERS kill the wildlife!!!!

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 23:47:33 -0500, "S Curtiss"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:40:08 -0500, "S Curtiss"
wrote:

Of course. Just A LOT LESS than any mountain biker.
Anecdotal. Where is your documented 3rd party evidence showing these
numbers?

It's obvious.
No - It isn't OBVIOUS unless that is all you want to see.

A hiker can and
will step over an animal on the trail. A mountain biker most likely
will never even know it was there, and will certainly crush it.
Your lack of experience about the riding habits and attentions of
cyclists
is evident in your statement of OPINION.

But it's TRUE.
No.

I have seen the dead snakes that prove it.

Where is the PROOF? Where are the photos? Where are the witnesses that saw
the cyclist hit a LIVE snake? Where is the documentation showing the only
possible cause was a cyclist?
WHERE IS IT?

Obviously, you don't really care.
I don't care because I won't give you a pass on unsubstantiated
statements...? I don't care because I insist on proof of your charges...?
I don't really care about your lies... I'll give you that. And I and others
make sure everyone is well aware of your lies. By doing so, we allow a
greater cooperation between all groups without bickering over the
misinformation you present. That greater cooperation allows for better
discussions on preservasion which you obviously don't care about.

It is your OPINION that off-road cyclists can not ride AND see their
surroundings and obstacles (IE: wildlife on trail)
You attempt to use your limited experience of off-road cycling as a
factor
in determining how everyone else must perceive it.
That is evident as your OPINION is constantly used in place of FACT.

There are examples in zoological museums.

What examples? Which museums? Which ones are labeled "destroyed" or
"crushed" by "mountain bikers"? Which ones have documents showing they
were
definately killed by mountain bikers? Which ones document eye witness
accounts of the death by "mountain bikers"?

You can tell by the width of the wound: identical to the width of a
mountain bike tire, which doesn't match any shoe.
Really...? The existence of what you say is a mountain bike tire mark
proves
they were killed by mountain bikers....?
You do not even entertain the POSSIBILITY they were dead before the
marks
were made...

Not likely. I have NEVER seen a dead snake there, until one was killed
by a mountain biker.
Did YOU SEE the cyclist hit it? Who else was present? Do you have
corroboration? Do you have PROOF it was not already dead from some other
cause? Where is the PROOF the only possible cause was a cyclist?

The biologist who examined it agrees that it was killed by a mountain
biker. There is no other possible answer.
Names...? Association... ? Documentation...? Background...?
Without it, it is still you simply saying "because I say so" which is hardly
acceptable.
While you are at it, show the conclusive process that allows this
"biologist" to say it was "killed" by a cyclist and not already dead when a
cyclist may have encountered it.



This is, as it has always been, an example you CLAIM proves off-road
cyclist
behavior but you have no REAL EVIDENCE. Your word means NOTHING.

Beyond that you are AGAIN avoiding the DIRECT questions:
What examples? Which museums? Which ones are labeled "destroyed" or
"crushed" by "mountain bikers"? Which ones have documents showing they
were
definately killed by mountain bikers? Which ones document eye witness
accounts of the death by "mountain bikers"?
STILL NO ANSWER TO DIRECT QUESTIONS ON POINT AND PROOF.
And that speaks VOLUMES on your credibility as a LIAR.
STILL NO ANSWER on a direct point YOU MADE. YOU stated "There are examples
in zoological museums". So, go ahead, which examples...? Which museums...?
If there are examples, then it should be easy for you to supply the names.

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:40:20 -0500, "S Curtiss"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 23:47:33 -0500, "S Curtiss"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:40:08 -0500, "S Curtiss"
wrote:

Of course. Just A LOT LESS than any mountain biker.
Anecdotal. Where is your documented 3rd party evidence showing these
numbers?

It's obvious.
No - It isn't OBVIOUS unless that is all you want to see.

A hiker can and
will step over an animal on the trail. A mountain biker most likely
will never even know it was there, and will certainly crush it.
Your lack of experience about the riding habits and attentions of
cyclists
is evident in your statement of OPINION.

But it's TRUE.
No.

I have seen the dead snakes that prove it.

Where is the PROOF? Where are the photos? Where are the witnesses that saw
the cyclist hit a LIVE snake? Where is the documentation showing the only
possible cause was a cyclist?
WHERE IS IT?

Obviously, you don't really care.
I don't care because I won't give you a pass on unsubstantiated
statements...? I don't care because I insist on proof of your charges...?
I don't really care about your lies.

"Lies"? You haven't found even ONE yet! (Hint: there aren't any. I
don't need to lie, since the truth is on my side.)

... I'll give you that. And I and others
make sure everyone is well aware of your lies. By doing so, we allow a
greater cooperation between all groups without bickering over the
misinformation you present. That greater cooperation allows for better
discussions on preservasion which you obviously don't care about.

It is your OPINION that off-road cyclists can not ride AND see their
surroundings and obstacles (IE: wildlife on trail)
You attempt to use your limited experience of off-road cycling as a
factor
in determining how everyone else must perceive it.
That is evident as your OPINION is constantly used in place of FACT.

There are examples in zoological museums.

What examples? Which museums? Which ones are labeled "destroyed" or
"crushed" by "mountain bikers"? Which ones have documents showing they
were
definately killed by mountain bikers? Which ones document eye witness
accounts of the death by "mountain bikers"?

You can tell by the width of the wound: identical to the width of a
mountain bike tire, which doesn't match any shoe.
Really...? The existence of what you say is a mountain bike tire mark
proves
they were killed by mountain bikers....?
You do not even entertain the POSSIBILITY they were dead before the
marks
were made...

Not likely. I have NEVER seen a dead snake there, until one was killed
by a mountain biker.
Did YOU SEE the cyclist hit it? Who else was present? Do you have
corroboration? Do you have PROOF it was not already dead from some other
cause? Where is the PROOF the only possible cause was a cyclist?

The biologist who examined it agrees that it was killed by a mountain
biker. There is no other possible answer.
Names...? Association... ? Documentation...? Background...?
Without it, it is still you simply saying "because I say so" which is hardly
acceptable.
While you are at it, show the conclusive process that allows this
"biologist" to say it was "killed" by a cyclist and not already dead when a
cyclist may have encountered it.

If yiu were HONEST, which you aren't, you would find your OWN snake or
other animal killed by a mountain biker. They must be pretty common.

This is, as it has always been, an example you CLAIM proves off-road
cyclist
behavior but you have no REAL EVIDENCE. Your word means NOTHING.

Beyond that you are AGAIN avoiding the DIRECT questions:
What examples? Which museums? Which ones are labeled "destroyed" or
"crushed" by "mountain bikers"? Which ones have documents showing they
were
definately killed by mountain bikers? Which ones document eye witness
accounts of the death by "mountain bikers"?
STILL NO ANSWER TO DIRECT QUESTIONS ON POINT AND PROOF.
And that speaks VOLUMES on your credibility as a LIAR.
STILL NO ANSWER on a direct point YOU MADE. YOU stated "There are examples
in zoological museums". So, go ahead, which examples...? Which museums...?
If there are examples, then it should be easy for you to supply the names.

If you were smart (or cared), you would already know that information.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On 30 Jan 2007 21:03:32 -0800, "tom" wrote:

On Jan 30, 7:40 pm, "S Curtiss" wrote:
"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message

...



On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 23:47:33 -0500, "S Curtiss"
wrote:

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:40:08 -0500, "S Curtiss"
wrote:

Of course. Just A LOT LESS than any mountain biker.
Anecdotal. Where is your documented 3rd party evidence showing these
numbers?

It's obvious.
No - It isn't OBVIOUS unless that is all you want to see.

A hiker can and
will step over an animal on the trail. A mountain biker most likely
will never even know it was there, and will certainly crush it.
Your lack of experience about the riding habits and attentions of
cyclists
is evident in your statement of OPINION.

But it's TRUE.
No.

I have seen the dead snakes that prove it.

Where is the PROOF? Where are the photos? Where are the witnesses that saw
the cyclist hit a LIVE snake? Where is the documentation showing the only
possible cause was a cyclist?
WHERE IS IT?

Obviously, you don't really care.

I don't care because I won't give you a pass on unsubstantiated
statements...? I don't care because I insist on proof of your charges...?
I don't really care about your lies... I'll give you that. And I and others
make sure everyone is well aware of your lies. By doing so, we allow a
greater cooperation between all groups without bickering over the
misinformation you present. That greater cooperation allows for better
discussions on preservasion which you obviously don't care about.





It is your OPINION that off-road cyclists can not ride AND see their
surroundings and obstacles (IE: wildlife on trail)
You attempt to use your limited experience of off-road cycling as a
factor
in determining how everyone else must perceive it.
That is evident as your OPINION is constantly used in place of FACT.

There are examples in zoological museums.

What examples? Which museums? Which ones are labeled "destroyed" or
"crushed" by "mountain bikers"? Which ones have documents showing they
were
definately killed by mountain bikers? Which ones document eye witness
accounts of the death by "mountain bikers"?

You can tell by the width of the wound: identical to the width of a
mountain bike tire, which doesn't match any shoe.
Really...? The existence of what you say is a mountain bike tire mark
proves
they were killed by mountain bikers....?
You do not even entertain the POSSIBILITY they were dead before the
marks
were made...

Not likely. I have NEVER seen a dead snake there, until one was killed
by a mountain biker.
Did YOU SEE the cyclist hit it? Who else was present? Do you have
corroboration? Do you have PROOF it was not already dead from some other
cause? Where is the PROOF the only possible cause was a cyclist?

The biologist who examined it agrees that it was killed by a mountain
biker. There is no other possible answer.

Names...? Association... ? Documentation...? Background...?
Without it, it is still you simply saying "because I say so" which is hardly
acceptable.
While you are at it, show the conclusive process that allows this
"biologist" to say it was "killed" by a cyclist and not already dead when a
cyclist may have encountered it.



This is, as it has always been, an example you CLAIM proves off-road
cyclist
behavior but you have no REAL EVIDENCE. Your word means NOTHING.

Beyond that you are AGAIN avoiding the DIRECT questions:
What examples? Which museums? Which ones are labeled "destroyed" or
"crushed" by "mountain bikers"? Which ones have documents showing they
were
definately killed by mountain bikers? Which ones document eye witness
accounts of the death by "mountain bikers"?
STILL NO ANSWER TO DIRECT QUESTIONS ON POINT AND PROOF.
And that speaks VOLUMES on your credibility as a LIAR.

STILL NO ANSWER on a direct point YOU MADE. YOU stated "There are examples
in zoological museums". So, go ahead, which examples...? Which museums...?
If there are examples, then it should be easy for you to supply the names.



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, here goes again. Mr. Curtis, bless you, but why do you even
argue with him? I do enjoy your logical repartee, of course, and you
kill him, but he's got you where he wants you.

And you, too. And everyone else who is simply AFRAID TO TELL THE
TRUTH!

Acknowledging him. Why
don't we try the derailment technique with vandeman, as done with
libby? There seems to be some respite from libby recently. (****, I
might have just screwed that one up). Tom
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:40:20 -0500, "S Curtiss"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 23:47:33 -0500, "S Curtiss"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:40:08 -0500, "S Curtiss"
wrote:

Of course. Just A LOT LESS than any mountain biker.
Anecdotal. Where is your documented 3rd party evidence showing these
numbers?

It's obvious.
No - It isn't OBVIOUS unless that is all you want to see.

A hiker can and
will step over an animal on the trail. A mountain biker most
likely
will never even know it was there, and will certainly crush it.
Your lack of experience about the riding habits and attentions of
cyclists
is evident in your statement of OPINION.

But it's TRUE.
No.

I have seen the dead snakes that prove it.

Where is the PROOF? Where are the photos? Where are the witnesses that
saw
the cyclist hit a LIVE snake? Where is the documentation showing the
only
possible cause was a cyclist?
WHERE IS IT?

Obviously, you don't really care.
I don't care because I won't give you a pass on unsubstantiated
statements...? I don't care because I insist on proof of your charges...?
I don't really care about your lies.

"Lies"? You haven't found even ONE yet! (Hint: there aren't any. I
don't need to lie, since the truth is on my side.)
Just this past week you claimed a skier was killed in an illegal area when
the piece YOU posted showed it was an expert backcountry area.
Just this past week you claimed environmentalists do not drive.
Recently you claimed a thief and murderer was a "mountain biker" after he
stole a bicycle to get away.
In response to a news article citing real statisitics "ecoterrorism remains
one of the country's most active terrorist movements." You claim "Except for
mountain bikers, who ride illegally every day." completely ignoring the
legal status recognized by the NPS, NFS, and local land managers.
Not long ago you claimed "mountain bikers have the most serious injuries"
yet the actual numbers and news research showed the highest number of
serious injuries nationwide happen inside the home. *You promptly abandoned
the thread, as usual, when faced with real information.
And, above, you claim I do not care simply because I challenge your
unsubstantiated statements concerning the cause of animal deaths. You have
no comprehension of my level of concern beyond your attempt to get away from
a direct question

All of the above represent obvious LIES on your part. Documented and easily
searched.



.. I'll give you that. And I and others
make sure everyone is well aware of your lies. By doing so, we allow a
greater cooperation between all groups without bickering over the
misinformation you present. That greater cooperation allows for better
discussions on preservasion which you obviously don't care about.

It is your OPINION that off-road cyclists can not ride AND see their
surroundings and obstacles (IE: wildlife on trail)
You attempt to use your limited experience of off-road cycling as a
factor
in determining how everyone else must perceive it.
That is evident as your OPINION is constantly used in place of FACT.

There are examples in zoological museums.

What examples? Which museums? Which ones are labeled "destroyed" or
"crushed" by "mountain bikers"? Which ones have documents showing
they
were
definately killed by mountain bikers? Which ones document eye
witness
accounts of the death by "mountain bikers"?

You can tell by the width of the wound: identical to the width of a
mountain bike tire, which doesn't match any shoe.
Really...? The existence of what you say is a mountain bike tire mark
proves
they were killed by mountain bikers....?
You do not even entertain the POSSIBILITY they were dead before the
marks
were made...

Not likely. I have NEVER seen a dead snake there, until one was killed
by a mountain biker.
Did YOU SEE the cyclist hit it? Who else was present? Do you have
corroboration? Do you have PROOF it was not already dead from some other
cause? Where is the PROOF the only possible cause was a cyclist?

The biologist who examined it agrees that it was killed by a mountain
biker. There is no other possible answer.
Names...? Association... ? Documentation...? Background...?
Without it, it is still you simply saying "because I say so" which is
hardly
acceptable.
While you are at it, show the conclusive process that allows this
"biologist" to say it was "killed" by a cyclist and not already dead when
a
cyclist may have encountered it.

If yiu were HONEST, which you aren't, you would find your OWN snake or
other animal killed by a mountain biker. They must be pretty common.
Thats a laugh! You say they exist therefore it is on you to provide the
PROOF. Your statement "They must be pretty common" is an assumption based on
your OPINION. I've been riding for years and haven't come across an animal
that shows signs it was killed by a cyclist. It is rare to find a dead
animal along the trail killed by any means. You can either provide the
scientific and conclusive evidence from this biologist (a name, and facility
association as well) or you are claiming something you can not prove.
"Because you say so" is not evidence. If you were HONEST, you would have NO
DIFFICULTY providing this proof.

This is, as it has always been, an example you CLAIM proves off-road
cyclist
behavior but you have no REAL EVIDENCE. Your word means NOTHING.

Beyond that you are AGAIN avoiding the DIRECT questions:
What examples? Which museums? Which ones are labeled "destroyed" or
"crushed" by "mountain bikers"? Which ones have documents showing they
were
definately killed by mountain bikers? Which ones document eye witness
accounts of the death by "mountain bikers"?
STILL NO ANSWER TO DIRECT QUESTIONS ON POINT AND PROOF.
And that speaks VOLUMES on your credibility as a LIAR.
STILL NO ANSWER on a direct point YOU MADE. YOU stated "There are examples
in zoological museums". So, go ahead, which examples...? Which
museums...?
If there are examples, then it should be easy for you to supply the names.

If you were smart (or cared), you would already know that information.

Sorry - my "Kreskin Skills" are limited when it comes to devining
information from morons. YOU say it is there. If you honestly thought your
statements were true, you would gladly offer real information to support
them instead of trying to sidetrack and misdirect inquiries.
So.... Either provide proof of your statements or, by not doing so,
provide the proof you are lying
That should be easy to grasp by someone with a PhD... Even if it is on fast
food preperation.

Mike Vandeman wrote in
:

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:40:20 -0500, "S Curtiss"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 23:47:33 -0500, "S Curtiss"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:40:08 -0500, "S Curtiss"
wrote:

Of course. Just A LOT LESS than any mountain biker.
Anecdotal. Where is your documented 3rd party evidence showing
these numbers?

It's obvious.
No - It isn't OBVIOUS unless that is all you want to see.

A hiker can and
will step over an animal on the trail. A mountain biker most
likely will never even know it was there, and will certainly
crush it.
Your lack of experience about the riding habits and attentions
of cyclists
is evident in your statement of OPINION.

But it's TRUE.
No.

I have seen the dead snakes that prove it.

Where is the PROOF? Where are the photos? Where are the witnesses
that saw the cyclist hit a LIVE snake? Where is the documentation
showing the only possible cause was a cyclist?
WHERE IS IT?

Obviously, you don't really care.
I don't care because I won't give you a pass on unsubstantiated
statements...? I don't care because I insist on proof of your
charges...? I don't really care about your lies.

"Lies"? You haven't found even ONE yet! (Hint: there aren't any. I
don't need to lie, since the truth is on my side.)

.. I'll give you that. And I and others
make sure everyone is well aware of your lies. By doing so, we allow a
greater cooperation between all groups without bickering over the
misinformation you present. That greater cooperation allows for better
discussions on preservasion which you obviously don't care about.

It is your OPINION that off-road cyclists can not ride AND see
their
surroundings and obstacles (IE: wildlife on trail)
You attempt to use your limited experience of off-road cycling as
a factor
in determining how everyone else must perceive it.
That is evident as your OPINION is constantly used in place of
FACT.

There are examples in zoological museums.

What examples? Which museums? Which ones are labeled "destroyed"
or "crushed" by "mountain bikers"? Which ones have documents
showing they were
definately killed by mountain bikers? Which ones document eye
witness accounts of the death by "mountain bikers"?

You can tell by the width of the wound: identical to the width
of a mountain bike tire, which doesn't match any shoe.
Really...? The existence of what you say is a mountain bike tire
mark proves
they were killed by mountain bikers....?
You do not even entertain the POSSIBILITY they were dead before
the marks
were made...

Not likely. I have NEVER seen a dead snake there, until one was
killed by a mountain biker.
Did YOU SEE the cyclist hit it? Who else was present? Do you have
corroboration? Do you have PROOF it was not already dead from some
other cause? Where is the PROOF the only possible cause was a
cyclist?

The biologist who examined it agrees that it was killed by a
mountain biker. There is no other possible answer.
Names...? Association... ? Documentation...? Background...?
Without it, it is still you simply saying "because I say so" which is
hardly acceptable.
While you are at it, show the conclusive process that allows this
"biologist" to say it was "killed" by a cyclist and not already dead
when a cyclist may have encountered it.

If yiu were HONEST, which you aren't, you would find your OWN snake or
other animal killed by a mountain biker. They must be pretty common.

This is, as it has always been, an example you CLAIM proves off-road
cyclist
behavior but you have no REAL EVIDENCE. Your word means NOTHING.

Beyond that you are AGAIN avoiding the DIRECT questions:
What examples? Which museums? Which ones are labeled "destroyed"
or "crushed" by "mountain bikers"? Which ones have documents
showing they were
definately killed by mountain bikers? Which ones document eye
witness accounts of the death by "mountain bikers"?
STILL NO ANSWER TO DIRECT QUESTIONS ON POINT AND PROOF.
And that speaks VOLUMES on your credibility as a LIAR.
STILL NO ANSWER on a direct point YOU MADE. YOU stated "There are
examples in zoological museums". So, go ahead, which examples...?
Which museums...? If there are examples, then it should be easy for
you to supply the names.

If you were smart (or cared), you would already know that information.\

I find mikeys little responses so amusing. He can't even support his own
arguments. Quite pathetic actually


===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you
are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Ale Brewer wrote:

I find mikeys little responses so amusing. He can't even support his
own arguments. Quite pathetic actually

Almost as pathetic as re-posting 7 KB's worth of Vandedrivel {tm} just to
add your too little sense.

HTH.

BS (really)

Ale Brewer wrote:

I find mikeys little responses so amusing. He can't even support his
own arguments. Quite pathetic actually

Almost as pathetic as re-posting 7 KB's worth of Vandedrivel {tm} just to
add your too little sense.

HTH.

BS (really)

Bill Sornson wrote:
Ale Brewer wrote:

I find mikeys little responses so amusing. He can't even support his
own arguments. Quite pathetic actually

Almost as pathetic as re-posting 7 KB's worth of Vandedrivel {tm} just to
add your too little sense.

HTH.

BS (really)


Or double posting even!

"wizardB" wrote in message
news:ZZrwh.847267$R63.445391@pd7urf1no...
Bill Sornson wrote:
Ale Brewer wrote:

I find mikeys little responses so amusing. He can't even support his
own arguments. Quite pathetic actually

Almost as pathetic as re-posting 7 KB's worth of Vandedrivel {tm} just to
add your too little sense.

HTH.

BS (really)
Or double posting even!

That's more stupid than pathetic -- I should know! (Ol' Ale Brew snuck
himself into the "Reply Group" option, so my munged addy caused my server to
belch. Twice.)

Bill "hope that wasn't too techy" S.

--
No Signature. Read on.
"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 14:18:43 GMT, "JP" wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:49:55 -0800, cc wrote:

MattB wrote:
cc wrote:
GeeDubb wrote:


"MattB" wrote in message
...

Wow. Scary!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16817149/

Glad he got away alive.

Matt

"After the attack, game wardens closed the park about 320 miles
north
of San Francisco and released hounds to track the lion. They later
shot and killed a pair of lions found near the trail where the
attack
happened.

The carcasses were flown to a state forensics lab to determine if
either animal mauled the man"


That is absolutely ridiculous. They should be prosecuted. It's
obviously revenge, given the odds of actually finding the same lion.
Last time I checked, mountain lions were predators in "nature". . .
which a park should represent . . . sheesh.

Maybe. I'd think with dogs tracking them there is more likelihood of
getting the right one(s) would at least be better than just shooting
the
first ones they could get.
I also see your point about nature, but like it or not humans have
pretty much removed themselves from the food chain. I see flaws with
doing this in terms of how things "should" play out, but if it was me,
my friends or my family involved, I'm less concerned with how the food
chain was designed to work.

Even in the case where we are encroaching on their habitat with our
residences, it is debatable whether we should engage in the "search and
destroy" method of elimination of "rogue" wild animals. It is a much
more compelling case, however, than doing the same thing to animals that
behave as animals when we are supposedly visiting their habitat. The
animal kingdom is dangerous. Kill or be killed. The only way to
eliminate that danger is to eliminate the animals. Is that what we
should do?

cc

No. Close the park permanently to humans.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande


Of course. Just A LOT LESS than any mountain biker. A hiker can and
will step over an animal on the trail. A mountain biker most likely
will never even know it was there, and will certainly crush it. There
are examples in zoological museums.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Can you please give me an address where I may view the specimens you claim
are in zoological museums. I do not believe you have the credentials to
make such claims.

Have the specimens been peer reviewed, and judged by scientific method to
have been "ran over" as you americans say.



TJ