Friction shifting Vs Index

On 2004-09-29, Mark D wrote:

I can remember the good ole days with Huret Allvit Friction Downtube
Shifters. Yes, I loved, and still do love the Friction Downtube Shifters
on a vintage Italian/French bike. I do remember though almost killing
myself once due to a friction shifter that didn't maintain tension, and
slipped out of gear riding hard out of the saddle.

If you want to try friction shifting at its best, hunt down a set of
Simplex "Retrofriction" shifters. Without a doubt the smoothest and
easiest friction shifting made.

--

-John )

On Sat, 2 Oct 2004 09:04:47 -0500, John Thompson
wrote:

On 2004-09-29, Mark D wrote:

I can remember the good ole days with Huret Allvit Friction Downtube
Shifters. Yes, I loved, and still do love the Friction Downtube Shifters
on a vintage Italian/French bike. I do remember though almost killing
myself once due to a friction shifter that didn't maintain tension, and
slipped out of gear riding hard out of the saddle.

If you want to try friction shifting at its best, hunt down a set of
Simplex "Retrofriction" shifters. Without a doubt the smoothest and
easiest friction shifting made.

One advantage to index, that I don't think was mentioned, is the
ability to shift both front and back, at the same time. I often go up
a chainring and down a cog, or the same in reverse. It helps maintain
my cadence.
For me, having the shifters on the bars, is so much safer. I never had
the opportunity to ride a bike with bar cons, which would seem to be a
step in the right direction.
In 2002, I was still riding with down tube friction shifters, so the
experience is still recent. I don't miss them, at all.


Life is Good!
Jeff

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:


Indexed shifting is a wonderful thing. One of several that have represented
significant progress for the bicycle (the others being dual-pivot brakes,
lighter saddles that are actually comfortable, helmets that don't look like
mushrooms, and high-performance clincher tires... I'll leave out alternative
frame materials for this discussion, and stick to things that most people
would have a hard time debating).

Reading that was interesting to me. I agree that index shifting is
nice. But to borrow a phrase from John Schubert, I'm "underwhelmed" by
it. If choosing index vs. friction were required on my next bike
purchase, I'd pick index. But my favorite bike, a mid-'80s Cannondale
tourer, has (what was then) top quality SunTour friction shifting, and I
have absolutely no plans to install index. To me, it's not worth the
retrofit.

In the rest of your list, I agree only with the tires! I prefer
cantilevers for reasons of tire clearance, fender clearance and because
I don't need hair-trigger brakes. I don't worry at all about saddle
weight. And I think the current crop of helmets look absolutely
ridiculous! (I won't comment on their crash-worthiness, since we don't
need another skirmish on that front.)

It's just interesting to me how things that are very important to one
person can be quite negligible to another person who's doing exactly the
same things.


--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Just a few days ago I tried STI shifting for the first time (I'm getting
back into biking after a few years & have only used downtube & MTB
shifters) & didn't like it at all, but for a reason nobody else ever
seems to mention. My hands are quite small & not so strong &
consequently I found the pressure needed to push the whole brake lever
around felt less than easy. Perhaps I'd get used to it, but it feels at
first look that my hands would get very tired after a few hours of
shifting. Bar-end & downtube shifters seem to more efficiently use the
strength of the whole arm rather than just your fingers.

Anyone had the experience of having an initial reaction like mine to
STI, then getting used to it for long (several hour) rides?


--
bubelrocks

In article ,
bubelrocks wrote:


Just few days ago I tried STI shifting for the first time (I'm getting
back
into biking after a few years & have only used downtube & MTB
shifters) &
didn't like it at all, but for a reason nobody else ever
seems to mention. My
hands are quite small & not so strong &
consequently I found the pressure
needed to push the whole brake lever
around felt less than easy. Perhaps I'd
get used to it, but it feels at
first look that my hands would get very tired
after a few hours of
shifting. Bar-end & downtube shifters seem to more
efficiently use the
strength of the whole arm rather than just your fingers.


Anyone had the experience of having an initial reaction like mine to
STI,
then getting used to it for long (several hour) rides?


--
bubelrocks

If you have small hands, there are some levers you might prefer. Shimano
Sora and one special Ultegra brake/shifter units ("brifteurs") have
adjustable reach, so the brake lever can be brought closer to the bar.
Good for small-handed people like thee and me.

Sora shifters also have a slightly different mechanism involving a
button on the "in" side of each brifteur (the side of the hood closest
to the stem, if you will), very much akin to the Campagnolo brifteurs.
The Campy shifting system ("Ergo") doesn't move the brake lever sideways
at all: shifting is done only via a lever behind the brake lever, and by
a button on the in-side of the hood (just like Sora...).

Don't discount the Campy system without trying it: though you don't hear
much about them in North America, they make low-end groups like Mirage
and Xenon which are reasonably priced, in line with the Tiagra or 105
groups, roughly.

--
Ryan Cousineau, http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 14:16:41 +1000, bubelrocks
wrote:


Just a few days ago I tried STI shifting for the first time (I'm getting
back into biking after a few years & have only used downtube & MTB
shifters) & didn't like it at all, but for a reason nobody else ever
seems to mention. My hands are quite small & not so strong &
consequently I found the pressure needed to push the whole brake lever
around felt less than easy. Perhaps I'd get used to it, but it feels at
first look that my hands would get very tired after a few hours of
shifting. Bar-end & downtube shifters seem to more efficiently use the
strength of the whole arm rather than just your fingers.

Anyone had the experience of having an initial reaction like mine to
STI, then getting used to it for long (several hour) rides?

Hi, was this a new bike? Have someone who would know, an experienced
rider or someone at your LBS[local bike shop] make sure they are
functioning properly.
When I road tested the bike that I ended up buying, I couldn't shift
the left lever up to the biggest ring. I was concerned, because I
thought it was my hand's limitation. It turned out the cable was bad,
they replaced it and shifting was now easy. The right hand shifter, is
not difficult at all, compared to the left and should not be difficult
for anyone with normal hand strength.
The Tiagra levers that I had seemed to have a lighter feel to them,
compared to the Dura-Ace levers theat I upgraded to.

Don't give up on index shifting, you could also go to indexed bar end
shifters. But I personally love the combination of shifter/brake
levers, they helped me become a more efficent rider.


Life is Good!
Jeff

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 01:48:53 -0700, Ryan Cousineau wrote:

If you have small hands, there are some levers you might prefer. Shimano
Sora and one special Ultegra brake/shifter units ("brifteurs") have
adjustable reach, so the brake lever can be brought closer to the bar.
Good for small-handed people like thee and me.

This is a good suggestion. I have friends with small hands who find the
special smaller shifters to be much easier to use. Don't know that I'd
recommend Sora, though. The button is only accessible from the tops or
hoods, not from the drops. The Campy design is much better.

Don't discount the Campy system without trying it: though you don't hear
much about them in North America, they make low-end groups like Mirage
and Xenon which are reasonably priced, in line with the Tiagra or 105
groups, roughly.

I really like the Campy shifters better than Shimano, but I have large
hands. I don't know whether they would work for those with smaller hands.
They would be easier to shift, though, since the lever requires less
throw than the Shimano one. Possibly there is less pressure required, but
I'm not sure.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you
_`\(,_ | killed all of us? From every corner of Europe, hundreds,
(_)/ (_) | thousands would rise up to take our places. Even Nazis can't
kill that fast. -- Paul Henreid (Casablanca).

bubelrocks ms

wrote in part:

My hands are quite small & not so strong &
consequently I found the pressure needed to push the whole brake lever
around felt less than easy.

I have strong but short and stubby hands. Campy Ergolevers fit me better.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Yes, Jeff, this is a new bike, but it shifts onto all rings smoothly.
Thanks for all the replies that let me know small hands can be a
problem with STI. My initial thought before I even rode the bike was
that I wanted indexed bar-ends, and I think my experience & the balance
of this advice is confirming that this is the way to go, partly because
I'm a trundler, not a racer, spending a fair bit of time on the tops &
the ends of the drops. I think I'll get cyclocross-style auxiliary
brake levers to make me comfy on the tops as well. Thanks to all.


--
bubelrocks

"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message
...
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:


Indexed shifting is a wonderful thing. One of several that have
represented
significant progress for the bicycle (the others being dual-pivot
brakes,
lighter saddles that are actually comfortable, helmets that don't look
like
mushrooms, and high-performance clincher tires...

It's just interesting to me how things that are very important to one
person can be quite negligible to another person who's doing exactly the
same things.

Or, important in some circumstances but not others. Of my 7 current bikes, 3
have friction, 1 has an early version of Shimano indexed shifting that I run
as friction because I'm more used to it, and 3 have gripshift indexed
shifting. I don't miss indexing on my road bikes, but I can't imagine
riding my recumbent without it, because I shift gears much, much more often
on the recumbent -- can't stand up. Likewise, mountain bikes actually ridden
off-road on rough terrain are easier to deal with if you can keep both hands
on the bars at all times.