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#91
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Driver license test - questions about peds & cyclists?
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 12:32:02 +1100, Humbug wrote:
Get to a caravan park at about four in the arvo and relax with a cuppa while you watch 'em try and back a 'van into a spot. It's good for a giggle...:-) On a canoe club trip to Austria one year a bunch of us were doing just that (although I think it was bottles of beer rather than cuppas). Eventually we'd had as much as we could take and offered to lend the guy a hand. I don't think he realised what we meant until we all grabbed a bit of the caravan and bounced it sideways into the right place. Graeme |
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#92
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Driver license test - questions about peds & cyclists?
Graeme Dods wrote:
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 09:01:37 +0800, Theo Bekkers wrote: The Police advice here in WA is now that, if you're tuning right at a roundabout (taking the third exit) you should indicate right when you enter the roundabout. i.e. treat it as if the roundabout isn't there, then indicate left when you about to exit. The mini-roundabouts are usually treated as it they aren't there, i.e. you indicate on approach but not on exit. It's made easier as they are almost always used at junctions of 3 or 4 roads, rarely more, so it's pretty clear from your initial indication where you're going. Yup, that is what the Police here say too, but the road rules say different. At what point does a mini-ra become a proper roundabout? You see obviously confused drivers, and reciprocating anger, at every small and medium-sized roundabout. Theo |
#93
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Driver license test - questions about peds & cyclists?
Markus Imhof wrote:
In article , "Ian George" wrote: cfsmtb wrote: This is probably a question that should be posed over at aus.cars. Anyway for those of you with licenses, do you recall *anything* either in handbooks or the computer tests that directly related to pedestrians or cyclists? Today the media is full of depressing news about the Mildura deaths, the police admit they're bewildered over the Vic road toll and there's more defeatist ****ing and moaning about aggressive road behaviour. At the Connecting Cycling Conference last Thursday, Dr John Pucher demonstrated how in the German drivers license - 30 / 40% of the questions directly pertaining to peds/cyclists interactions. Suburban zones have a strict 30km limit, the Autobahns are quite another matter! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn Unless something has changed recently, the speed limit in built-up areas in Germany is 50kph, around 30mph. A 30kph/18mph speed limit would be impractical for a car. Hate to barge in, since I'm not in .oz, but we have several speed limits: Usenet would be a pretty dull place if no-one barged in, I reckon. General limit on Autobahn: none (but a lot of specific limits) General limit outside cities: 100 kph General limit inside cities: 50 kph specific limit inside cities: often 30 kph on minor roads, i.e. roads used by pass-through traffic are only subject to the general limit of 50 kph, but residential/side roads are often limited to 30 kph with a zonal limit ('Tempo 30 Zone'; not sure about the wording - with an ordinary limit, the signs are repeated along the road, with a zonal limit, all roads entering the zone are marked accordingly with a special sign). specific limit inside residential areas: occasionally, streets in residential areas are also marked as 'quiet' streets ('Verkehrsberuhigter Bereich', again not sure about the translation; in these areas, pedestrians and playing kids have right of way, driving/riding is only allowed at walking speed). Yep, that was sort of my point. We are seeing that implemented here in Australia too, shared zones and the like, as I said somewhere in another post. I was only taking issue with the OP's somewhat misleading inference that this differs in some vastly material way from what we have here. It really doesn't, the main difference is that we lack (with the exception of the Stuart Highway, which is basically in the middle of the desert) the unrestricted Autobahn limits. In recent implementations, using your headings above as a guide, we have: Maximum Speed (Limited Access Special Zones) 110km/h General Speed Limited Access Freeway 100km/h Open Road Limit (Highway) 100km/h City Limited Access divided Roads (Collectors) 70km/h City Sub-Collectors 60km/h Access Streets 50km/h unless marked otherwise Special zones (Schools, Shared and Similar) 20km/h - 40km/h So we do realistically have a model in road laws that is essentially similar, although the infrastructure and then by definition deployment of restrictions is less mature than in Europe generally (Germany and Holland in particular). On another note: although some percentage of the driving test questions may be targeted at vehicle/ped/cycle interaction, a lot of drivers seem to forget these very quickly :-( Is the license test there still as comprehensive as it used to be? Does it include manatory skills training, or has it moved toward the pathetic one-off assessment based system used here? Until the focus of legislation and enforcement turns from revenue generation on freeways and limited access roads (which are one area that could take increased speed reasonably safely) to comprehensive driver training and education, and enforcement in the areas where speed actually does pose a risk, I can't see the situation here improving. I think you'd be appalled at how little actual training and / or skill is required for people to get out on the road over here. Ian |
#94
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Driver license test - questions about peds & cyclists?
Tamyka Bell wrote: Theo Bekkers wrote: Bleve wrote: Theo Bekkers wrote: From my experience, I would rather ride on the road than on a shared path. Or even a non-shared path. Most of the time, so do I. But, I choose to use shared paths at night in foul weather if I can, as I think in that instance that the risk of being hit by a car is greater than I want to accept. Every ride is a concious risk-management decision. My experience of night-time riding is that the road is lit, paths are not lit, paths are littered. Theo I think I'm more visible on the road at night, than I am during peak hour. Like Theo, I choose the roads at night because they're lit and generally have a better surface. Generally I agree, but if you notice the "in foul weather" that I wrote, that may alter your interpretation.. When it's foggy, pelting with rain etc*, I'll take my chances on the paths before mixing it with cars. I have a good headlight and ride cautiously on paths at night. * I ride everywhere, this is a regular occurance in winter in Melbourne. |
#95
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Driver license test - questions about peds & cyclists?
On 2006-02-22, Bleve (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea: with rain etc* .... * I ride everywhere, this is a regular occurance in winter in Melbourne. What!? Shirley you jest! -- TimC It typically takes 25-30 gallons of petrol/diesel to fully-consume an average-sized body under ideal conditions. That I am conversant with this level of detail should serve as an indication of why the wise man does not ask me questions about MS-Windows. --Tanuki on ASR |
#96
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Driver license test - questions about peds & cyclists?
In article ,
"Ian George" wrote: Markus Imhof wrote: In article , "Ian George" wrote: cfsmtb wrote: This is probably a question that should be posed over at aus.cars. Anyway for those of you with licenses, do you recall *anything* ..... On another note: although some percentage of the driving test questions may be targeted at vehicle/ped/cycle interaction, a lot of drivers seem to forget these very quickly :-( Is the license test there still as comprehensive as it used to be? Does it include manatory skills training, or has it moved toward the pathetic one-off assessment based system used here? 'Driving Test' actually requires: - mandatory theory lessons (sitting in a classroom while someone explains about behaviour in traffic) - mandatory driving lessons (including night, autobahn and, if you want a licence to tow a trailer, driving with that trailer. Yes, you now need a licence for trailers now, at least for the larger ones. Don't care much about that - with my old licence, I can basically tow everything that the car can handle). - Theory test (multiple choice) - practical driving test In addition to the mandatory lessons, you'll usually need some more training in order to pass the driving tests. Reasons for failing can be many: a friend of mine didn't swith on the wipers in a light drizzle - failed. I had my second test on that day - the first time I failed becaus I was driving too slow. Just don't ask me about the current licensing system - when I made my license, there were 5 licenses (trucks to small motorcycles). Now, there's about a dozen.... Bye Markus |
#97
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Driver license test - questions about peds & cyclists?
In article ,
"Resound" wrote: Hate to barge in, since I'm not in .oz, but we have several speed limits: General limit on Autobahn: none (but a lot of specific limits) General limit outside cities: 100 kph General limit inside cities: 50 kph specific limit inside cities: often 30 kph on minor roads, i.e. roads .... I'm curious now. How heavily is this enforced? (I don't recall ever seeing speed cameras or police patrolling quiet suburban side streets in Melbourne) Do you know what their attitude toward bicycles is with regards to this limit? I know that I'd be well in danger of getting pulled over in a 30kph zone as my bike's not fitted with a speedo. (no, I dont have a computer...I'm a commuter) 30 kph: rarely 50 kph: occasionally higher limits and specific limits: more often, often with fixed cameras. Regarding bicycles: we have a curious situation here that the general 50 kph limit only applies to _motorized_ vehicles, not bicycles. Although most roads were you could hit (or exceed) 50 kph with a bicycle have mandatory bike paths/lanes - where you're lucky if you can safely ride 20 kph. 30 kph for bicycles is valid and, if there's a speed measurement, are enforced. There are a few (very few) riders on d.r.f. who framed their speeding ticket :-) Regarding the speedo: it's not exactly required for cars, too. You just have to comply to the limit - how you do that is your responsibility. Bye Markus |
#98
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Driver license test - questions about peds & cyclists?
Bleve wrote:
Tamyka Bell wrote: Theo Bekkers wrote: Bleve wrote: Theo Bekkers wrote: From my experience, I would rather ride on the road than on a shared path. Or even a non-shared path. Most of the time, so do I. But, I choose to use shared paths at night in foul weather if I can, as I think in that instance that the risk of being hit by a car is greater than I want to accept. Every ride is a concious risk-management decision. My experience of night-time riding is that the road is lit, paths are not lit, paths are littered. Theo I think I'm more visible on the road at night, than I am during peak hour. Like Theo, I choose the roads at night because they're lit and generally have a better surface. Generally I agree, but if you notice the "in foul weather" that I wrote, that may alter your interpretation.. When it's foggy, pelting with rain etc*, I'll take my chances on the paths before mixing it with cars. I have a good headlight and ride cautiously on paths at night. * I ride everywhere, this is a regular occurance in winter in Melbourne. My bad, I read "at night/in foul weather", i.e. I read OR rather than AND. Tsk tsk Tam. |
#99
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Driver license test - questions about peds & cyclists?
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:00:28 +0100, Markus Imhof wrote:
including night, autobahn and, if you want a licence to tow a trailer, driving with that trailer. Yes, you now need a licence for trailers now, at least for the larger ones. Good idea. The amount of people you see towing a trailer that have absolutely *no* idea is ridiculous and rather scarey considering some of them are towing bloody big and heavy boats or caravans [1]! I was lucky that my family had a trailer when I was young so my dad always told me about how to tow a trailer for years before I needed to. Then I ended up teaching friends how to tow and reverse a huge canoe trailer being towed by a minibus. It's amazing just how much you realise you didn't know when you start teaching someone else! Thanks to that experience, it's now a method I use of checking how well someone has learnt something; watching them trying to teach someone else. Graeme [1] Might be a good time to post this link again http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...40551710935964 |
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