Perhaps someone should tell "BICYCLING" mag's "Style Man" about this...

"Kevan Smith" /\/\ wrote in message
...
On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 19:46:27 -0400, "Doug Huffman"
from
wrote:

Now there's a subtle way to introduce race into the non-issue. Are you
Nigerian?

On the contrary. Look through BuyCycling magazine and see how many
non-white
people you see, then look up from the magazine and see how many you see in
the
real world. BuyCycling, indeed Rodale in general in all of their
publications,
seem to go out of their way to exclude minorities. Recently, the only
black
people I've seen in the magazine have been in ads for charity bike rides.
Asians? Hispanics? Forget it.

They are aiming for their target demographic. Recreational and competitive
cycling are, to use your term, "Whitey" sports. I've done several charity
rides and have never seen an African-American. Never. The only
African-Americans I see riding bikes are riding Wal-Mart specials. If you
want to see Latinos and African-Americans in a bicycling magazine, buy
"Lowrider Bicycle". Believe me, if there were lots of African-American and
Latino recreational cyclists, they would be targeted. Money is green, no
matter from whom it comes, Kevvie.

"Kevan Smith" /\/\ wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:58:53 GMT, "Slider2699" from
RoadRunner - Tampa Bay wrote:

They are aiming for their target demographic. Recreational and
competitive
cycling are, to use your term, "Whitey" sports. I've done several charity
rides and have never seen an African-American. Never. The only
African-Americans I see riding bikes are riding Wal-Mart specials.

Imagine what it would do for LBSes if BuyCycling broadened their target
market
to ALL cyclists instead of a monied, white elite. Imagine what it would do
for
the sport. At the very least, Bicycling should change its name to
Expensive
Bicycling or something.

But people who buy bikes as cheap transportation don't spend money on
cycling. Guys on DUI specials don't buy Castelli shorts, or fancy Giro
helmets. They also don't care about training tips, or nutrition tips, or
articles on cycling destinations. The people who currently read Bicycling
do. Hence, the preponderance of monied white people in Bicycling. As I
stated before, if you want to see minorities in a bicycle-oriented magazine,
read "Lowrider Bicycle".

"Kevan Smith" /\/\ wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:18:29 GMT, "Slider2699" from
RoadRunner - Tampa Bay wrote:

But people who buy bikes as cheap transportation don't spend money on
cycling. Guys on DUI specials don't buy Castelli shorts, or fancy Giro
helmets. They also don't care about training tips, or nutrition tips, or
articles on cycling destinations. The people who currently read Bicycling
do. Hence, the preponderance of monied white people in Bicycling. As I
stated before, if you want to see minorities in a bicycle-oriented
magazine,
read "Lowrider Bicycle".

You just don't get it. IF Bicycling started including everyday,
inexpensive,
commuter- and regular-person content, then they would attract a broader
audience. More readers with a little money probably equals a smaller
amount of
readers with a lot of money. But more readers provided with relevant
content
does the whole bicycling community good.

No, YOU don't get it. People who ride DUI specials, and poor
transportation-oriented bicycle riders don't look at bicycling as a hobby.
They don't want to read about it. They don't care. That's the same reason
you don't see articles in car enthusiast magazines about Ford Taurus wagons,
and Geo Metros. Magazines about hobbies or activities make money from ads
which are targeted at the hobbyist. Hobbyists see these ads and spend money
on the products. Someone riding a 10 year old Murray cruiser isn't going to
do that, and that's how magazines make money. Capitalism, and all that jazz.

In article ,
"H. Guy" wrote:

They are aiming for their target demographic. Recreational and competitive
cycling are, to use your term, "Whitey" sports. I've done several charity
rides and have never seen an African-American. Never. The only
African-Americans I see riding bikes are riding Wal-Mart specials.

that's 100% contrary to my experience in d.c. i'd say half of the people
i see, regardless of race, are on their wal-mart specials. titanium isn't
just the white man's (financial) burden. i've no doubt that tampa is
a different world.

Imagine what it would do for LBSes if BuyCycling broadened their target
market
to ALL cyclists instead of a monied, white elite. Imagine what it would do
for
the sport. At the very least, Bicycling should change its name to Expensive
Bicycling or something.

they've leaned that way for at least the last 15 years. it's the
unobtanium frame that gets the enthusiast drooling, so that's naturally
what they feature. but they should feature at least one bike a month for
the population that can't drop $3K on a bike.

And they do. Look at the prices. They invariably feature a low or
mid-range road bike every month I've checked.

For all the slagging Bicycling gets in this forum (and every time they
publish a new ratio for the relative importance of rotating and
non-rotating mass, they earn it), they know their audience well.

It's the difference between the demographics of stereo and TV owners
(most of whom are pretty happy if their right and left speakers are
plugged in the correct places) and the readers of _Sound & Vision_ or
(shudder) _The Absolute Sound_. Everyone you know owns a stereo, but
precious few treat their stereo as a hobby, and fewer still care enough
to want a magazine about it.

Bicycling covers the _Sound & Vision_ end of the market ably. In either
market, the target is a broad group where they want buying advice on
equipment that makes sense for middle-class readers treating the
activity as a primary hobby (good and solid, but not insane).

At least in this way cyclists are less scary than audiophiles: we all
agree that once your bike budget reaches $5000, you can probably buy one
or two of the best, highest-performance bikes in the world. There might
be a few overachieving Colnago Ferrari editions out there, but they're
obviously rich collector bait.

Audiophiles figure $5000 is a good start. For the speakers. In the
home-theatre room.

And while Bicycling says stupid things monthly, be they inadvertant
reviews of the tire pressures and placebo effects of yet another
lightweight frame, or the advice in the Style Man column (really, he
could take some lessons from Fabrizio, those glasses are so two years
ago), at least a cyclist who followed most of their advice (train well,
eat right, do a century, buy this mid-range bike with decent components)
would end up a better cyclist than if they had no similar info source.

On the gripping hand, I'm reminded of a Penny Arcade comic strip in
which a salesman is trying to sell one of the characters a strategy
guide for a video game. "No thanks, I have the Internet."

--
Ryan Cousineau, http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

On the gripping hand, I'm reminded of a Penny Arcade comic strip in
which a salesman is trying to sell one of the characters a strategy
guide for a video game. "No thanks, I have the Internet."

I'm inclined to disagree. The bicycle isn't the same thing as
the stereo, simply because we don't interact with them on the
same level.

I like my Mageneplanars but I love my Schwinn.



--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
in.edu__________

x-no-archive:yes

"Eric S. Sande" wrote in message
...
On the gripping hand, I'm reminded of a Penny Arcade comic strip in
which a salesman is trying to sell one of the characters a strategy
guide for a video game. "No thanks, I have the Internet."


I'm inclined to disagree. The bicycle isn't the same thing as
the stereo, simply because we don't interact with them on the
same level.

I like my Mageneplanars but I love my Schwinn.

I agree with Ryan: I know a guy who'd name his child "Bose" if his wife
would let him.

Pat in TX

In article ,
says...

....

On the gripping hand, I'm reminded of a Penny Arcade comic strip in
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Are you a Niven/Pournelle fan?

--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

1. old playboy minus norman
2. o.p. minus beaver
3. lotta people think everyone riding a bike iza retard
4. lota people think clothing.this makes bike plus clothing not a
retard.
5. lotta people driving cars don't think, you may have noticed this in
your travels
6. a secretary writes this BS on coffebreak. those other ugly dudes
are models scraped of the street
7. why are you wasting time reading crap about $300 coffemakers and
looking at expensive photos of bug infested cabins.

David Kerber wrote:

On the gripping hand, I'm reminded of a Penny Arcade comic strip in=20

Are you a Niven/Pournelle fan?

Oooh, I am! Except for the one I just finished, "Fallen Angels" which=20
is a piece of crap.

Recently discovered Elizabeth Moon, I've been pouring through her=20
Familias Regnant series...

I'm a sucker for Baen eBooks, spend far too much time reading 'em on my=20
Cli=E9 NZ90

Sheldon "Hard Science Fiction" Brown
+-----------------------------------------------------+
| When a place gets crowded enough to require ID's, |
| social collapse is not far away. It is time to go |
| elsewhere. The best thing about space travel is |
| that it made it possible to go elsewhere. |
| --Robert A. Heinlein |
+-----------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

In article ,
says...
David Kerber wrote:

On the gripping hand, I'm reminded of a Penny Arcade comic strip in

Are you a Niven/Pournelle fan?

Oooh, I am! Except for the one I just finished, "Fallen Angels" which
is a piece of crap.

I haven't read that one...


Recently discovered Elizabeth Moon, I've been pouring through her
Familias Regnant series...

I'm a sucker for Baen eBooks, spend far too much time reading 'em on my
Clié NZ90

Sheldon "Hard Science Fiction" Brown

I figured as much from your reference to "The Gripping Hand". Me, too,
though I don't keep up with current authors much. About once a year
I'll go out and buy a few, but spend the rest of the year re-reading
some of the 400 or so in my collection. I just re-read (for the 3rd
time, IIRC) "The Gripping Hand" earlier this year.

.....


--
Dave Kerber
Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.