If you don't believe in Evolution, then why do you drive an SUV?

On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 14:20:40 -0800, "Baxter"
wrote:

You don't have to bike EVERY trip in order to help the environment and our
oil situation.


Right on!

I commute on a regular basis (140+ round trips last year!) and do as
many trips as I can by bike. I also work part time at a bicycle shop,
where I teach safe riding and bicycle care clinics. I also belong and
participate in several advocacy groups.

Along with all that, I live in an area that gets significant snowfall,
and then enjoys frozen slush and run-off. My morning commute is in
the dark 4-5 months of the year. I drive at the extreme cold ends of
the local climate. I have no problem riding in a warm rain, but pass
on cold and rain. I ride in cold and dark, but adding the third
dimension of ice puts me in the car.

Bicycle militants turn more people off than they convert to the joys
of riding for actual transportation.

People just need to ride when they can, and extol the virtues of
riding with purpose to encourage others. People willingly join like
minded people, and they move away from extremists.

"George Conklin" wrote in message
...

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message

Oh please. In the US, people do NOT pay directly for the true cost, but
it is hidden in other expenses.

The true cost of riding a bicycle is huge, and hidden by nonsense posted
here.

True. If more people biked more, the medical industry could potentially
lose millions.

George Conklin wrote:
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message

Oh please. In the US, people do NOT pay directly for the true cost, but
it is hidden in other expenses.

The true cost of riding a bicycle is huge, and hidden by nonsense posted
here.

Now that is just being silly. How does riding a bicycle impose huge
costs, especially compared to the individual motor vehicle?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

George Conklin wrote:
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Jack May wrote:
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
George Conklin wrote:
"Tom Keats" wrote in message
...
Showers and lockers could be provided for less than the cost of "free"
parking, when the externalities are accounted for.
A company needs "free" parking to be able to attract the people they
want to
hire. Very few people ride a bike to work. Showers and lockers are
still
installed these days for people that exercise at work.

Pretty poor excuse for a society then, eh?

If people had to pay the true cost of motor vehicles, we would see a lot
more commuter cyclists.

You have that totally backwards. Turning a 15 minute commute into a one
and half hour commute at standard wage rates means that you are wasting
several hours per day of productive work time, and you arrive at work
exhausted to boot.

Nonsense. Riding a bicycle is fun! Regular exercise makes a person LESS
tired.

Get out of your cage!

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

George Conklin wrote:
"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
George Conklin wrote:
"Tom Keats" wrote in message
...
...
And on the other hand, there seems to be a perception among
a lot of people that cycling is just too inconvenient -- that
one must dress funny, "brave" the elements, and risk their
neck among motorized traffic. They don't realize it doesn't
have to be such a big deal.

In this climate, I would need a shower and chaning room in the buildings
at
work, since I would arrive totally 100% soaked through 8 months of the
year.
Also, a change of clothes and a place to wash them. So you would need
locker rooms too.
Showers and lockers could be provided for less than the cost of "free"
parking, when the externalities are accounted for.

So who gets free parking? And those externalities are infinite if you
are one of those bicycle militants.

Every place I have ever worked at has had an employee parking lot.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"And never forget, life ultimately makes failures of all people."
- A. Derleth

In article ,
"George Conklin" writes:

"Tom Keats" wrote in message
...
In article t%Ngj.4940$O97.2830@trndny01,
Stephen Harding writes:
donquijote1954 wrote:
On Jan 7, 5:09 pm, Stephen Harding wrote:

George Conklin wrote:

If you are concerned with your health, you won't be riding a
bicycle. Too
many accidents per mile.

Like how many?

Cite please.


It's just a fear the system plants on you. It doesn't have to be real
though. Just enough so people give up bicycles and buy SUVs.

That's a fair point.

However I've come to believe people eschew bicycle commuting
not so much because it's seen as a death wish, but more that
such a view makes a convenient excuse.

Let's face it, hopping in the dino-juice buggy can be awfully
convenient!

And on the other hand, there seems to be a perception among
a lot of people that cycling is just too inconvenient -- that
one must dress funny, "brave" the elements, and risk their
neck among motorized traffic. They don't realize it doesn't
have to be such a big deal.


cheers,
Tom

In this climate, I would need a shower and chaning room in the buildings at
work, since I would arrive totally 100% soaked through 8 months of the year.

I bet I live in a wetter climate than you.

With my riding raingear on, I stay much drier
than if I'd walked.

I don't need a shower. I'm a warehouse worker.
I'm gonna get sweaty anyways, unloading shipments
in marine containers from China to provide people
like you with your cheap crap.

Also, a change of clothes and a place to wash them. So you would need
locker rooms too.

People who ride to jobs where they need to be fresh
simply keep their fresh clothes at their worksites.
And they don't need a full-on shower. A quick refresher
at the washroom sink does the trick, perhaps along with
an application of their pit-stick of choice.

It's really easy and do-able.

Ride past the gas station you usualy stop at, and
thumb your nose at 'em. Maybe even give 'em a
Flatbush cheer, while sticking your thumbs in your
ears and waving all your fingers at 'em.

If you can ride no-handed.


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

George Conklin wrote:

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
If people had to pay the true cost of motor vehicles, we would see a lot
more commuter cyclists.

You have that totally backwards. Turning a 15 minute commute into a one
and half hour commute at standard wage rates means that you are wasting
several hours per day of productive work time, and you arrive at work
exhausted to boot.

1. Since when does the alleged loss of "time" is being changed by the
billing rate? Time is time. That's not even backwards, that's totally
confused reasoning!
2. What you may consider as a alleged loss of work time, others would
consider in gained life-time due to increased physical fitness.
3. If one needs 1.5 hours by bike for the distance you commute by car in
0.25 hours, one should get his/her ass on a bike as quick as possible!
(An estimated - high! - avg. commuting speed of 50km/h makes 12.5km,
makes slightly above 8km/h avg. bike speed if traveled by bike in 1.5h)

Tadej
--
"Vergleich es mit einer Pflanze - die wächst auch nur dann gut, wenn du
sie nicht jeden zweiten Tag aus der Erde reißt, um nachzusehen, ob sie
schon Wurzeln geschlagen hat."
Martina Diel in d.t.r

In article ,
"Bonehenge (B A R R Y)" writes:

Bicycle militants turn more people off than they convert to the joys
of riding for actual transportation.

???

I don't think I've ever met a bicycle militant.
I've met lots of car militants, though.

I've even had a number of car militants aim at me, not
only while I was awheel, but also while I was afoot.

If there actually /are/ bicycle militants, car militants
are better-armed, just like the guys who shot the
war-protesting students at Kent State.

Car militants are a bunch of dangerous, self-centred,
anti-social mutton-heads.

Much more so than any bicycle militant ever could be.

Car militants turned me off of the notion of ever driving.

I guess it's just not in me to dive into a waller 'cuz
I covet the hawgs.

Anyways, "bicycle militant" is as oxymoronic as
"B'hai'an militant."

There /are/ anti-car militants who suggest bicycles as
an alternative form of transportation. But that's an
horse of a different colour. And I'll bet dollars to
donut holes a bunch of 'em don't even ride, or otherwise
put their money where their mouth is.


peace out,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Tom Keats wrote:

In article ,
"George Conklin" writes:

"Tom Keats" wrote in message
...

In article t%Ngj.4940$O97.2830@trndny01,
Stephen Harding writes:

donquijote1954 wrote:

On Jan 7, 5:09 pm, Stephen Harding wrote:


George Conklin wrote:


If you are concerned with your health, you won't be riding a

bicycle. Too

many accidents per mile.

Like how many?

Cite please.


It's just a fear the system plants on you. It doesn't have to be real
though. Just enough so people give up bicycles and buy SUVs.

That's a fair point.

However I've come to believe people eschew bicycle commuting
not so much because it's seen as a death wish, but more that
such a view makes a convenient excuse.

Let's face it, hopping in the dino-juice buggy can be awfully
convenient!

And on the other hand, there seems to be a perception among
a lot of people that cycling is just too inconvenient -- that
one must dress funny, "brave" the elements, and risk their
neck among motorized traffic. They don't realize it doesn't
have to be such a big deal.


cheers,
Tom

In this climate, I would need a shower and chaning room in the buildings at
work, since I would arrive totally 100% soaked through 8 months of the year.


I bet I live in a wetter climate than you.

With my riding raingear on, I stay much drier
than if I'd walked.

I don't need a shower. I'm a warehouse worker.
I'm gonna get sweaty anyways, unloading shipments
in marine containers from China to provide people
like you with your cheap crap.


Also, a change of clothes and a place to wash them. So you would need
locker rooms too.


People who ride to jobs where they need to be fresh
simply keep their fresh clothes at their worksites.
And they don't need a full-on shower. A quick refresher
at the washroom sink does the trick, perhaps along with
an application of their pit-stick of choice.

It's really easy and do-able.

Ride past the gas station you usualy stop at, and
thumb your nose at 'em. Maybe even give 'em a
Flatbush cheer, while sticking your thumbs in your
ears and waving all your fingers at 'em.

If you can ride no-handed.

I guess it's not that risky riding free-handed if George's avg. cycling
speed is 8km/h!*) ;-)

Tadej
*) See previous message in this thread!
--
"Vergleich es mit einer Pflanze - die wächst auch nur dann gut, wenn du
sie nicht jeden zweiten Tag aus der Erde reißt, um nachzusehen, ob sie
schon Wurzeln geschlagen hat."
Martina Diel in d.t.r

George Conklin wrote:

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message


Oh please. In the US, people do NOT pay directly for the true cost, but
it is hidden in other expenses.


The true cost of riding a bicycle is huge, and hidden by nonsense posted
here.

What do YOU consider huge? Bigger or still smaller than that of other
means of transport like private cars, public transport, etc.?

Tadej
--
"Vergleich es mit einer Pflanze - die wächst auch nur dann gut, wenn du
sie nicht jeden zweiten Tag aus der Erde reißt, um nachzusehen, ob sie
schon Wurzeln geschlagen hat."
Martina Diel in d.t.r