"Actually you are the first person to bring up this issue"

G.T. wrote:
snip
It's much easier to blame the user. That's what you're doing and
that's what the manufacturers are doing. Even though they know the
forces acting to rip the wheel out of the dropout are high.

So why blame people for driving fast?
Surely by now, speed limiters should have been fitted to all vehicles
limiting their speed to 10km/hour to avoid impact injuries.
We all know that the forces acting to squash drivers, passengers and
pedestrians are high.

Studies may have shown that disc brakes apply strong forces to the dropout
but other studies have clearly shown that improperly maintained vehicles
travelling at speed can apply strong forces to human bodies upon impact.
Yet maintain and use a vehicle safely and the odds of your crashing due to
equipment failure are reduced. Why would this not apply to disc brakes?

Despite all the debate I still haven't seen a statistically significant
number reports of injuries resulting from this issue where user error has
been ruled out. Given the numbers of bikes with disc brakes out there there
surely should be several if not dozens of incidents a week if this is a
realistic fault that the average rider should be concerned with.
--
Westie
(Replace 'invalid' with 'yahoo' when replying.)

James Annan wrote in message ...

So there you have it. At this rate, by the time next year's complaint
comes in, they will presumably have forgotten this first one. How
convenient for them. Those who thought that it wouldn't do to kick up a
fuss because the poor manufacturers were doing their best, may wish to
re-examine their approach. Or else studiously ignore this post in the
vain hope that the problem will go away.

Assuming, of course, that there actually *is* a problem.

It'll be nice to see all that wonderful, properly-controlled data from
the laboratory testing.

When that comes out for public view, then we'll all be able to avoid
drawing conclusions from anecdotal evidence.
--
R. F. Jones

"G.T." wrote in message om...
"Twohat" wrote in message
...

"G.T." wrote in message
om...


It's much easier to blame the user. That's what you're doing and that's
what the manufacturers are doing. Even though they know the forces
acting
to rip the wheel out of the dropout are high.

Greg


Been braking hard on bumpy bits for over a year now with my Manitou
Magnums
with Shimano Drybollock discs with no probs.
I might believe it if I saw it happen, but I'm not impressed with the
quasi-scientific conspiration theorists.
Annan has an axe to grind, and I think he is scaremongering un-necessarily
IMHO.


I hate scaremongering more than anybody (nobody is better at it than the US
media), but I've read a couple of scary accounts, and believe me, I'll be
keeping my front skewer very tight. And some day I'll switch to a
through-axle.


Yeah, I've read some scary accounts too. But we really don't know the
initial conditions well enough to draw solid conclusions. "Know" and
"suspect" or "think" are not the same level of confidence.

I'll be glad when the German lab releases their data and methods to
the public, so that we can all see what the real story is.
--
Jonesy

James Annan wrote:
"Frobnitz" wrote in message
...

Have you contacted someone like Watchdog (UK consumer affairs
program, for the non-UK readers on the x-post) to see if they are
interested.

No, I don't think there is any point in that. Firstly, it doesn't
affect me directly, and secondly, they are hardly going to take a
complaint seriously that has only ever been noticed by one rider (and
he didn't even have a crash or anything, it's just that his wheel
won't stay put). Since it's already been cleared by the CPSC, there is
obviously no design problem and I guess I must have made the whole
thing up. It was quite a hassle making all the fake user accounts on
singletrackworld:

http://www.singletrackworld.com/foru...34406&t=933851

and just to make it seem more authentic I forged this review and
hacked into Marin's site:

http://www.marin.co.uk/marin-2004/reviews.php?ID=47

James

LOL. While I think you are an obsessed quasi-religious zealot, that's not
why I'm going to goof on you.....

Dumabass, Frobnitz was *supporting you* ! He was suggesting that rather
than spam up a bunch of newsgroups where people are probably smart enough to
tighten their QR, you should direct your efforts at the appropriate
regulatory agencies and actually try to do something to fix the "problem".
Your rejection of that course of action suggests that you're more interested
in pursuing your own personal crusade rather than actually solving a
problem -- percieved or otherwise.

Rather than thank him for the suggestion or offer a counterpoint to why it's
not a viable option, you launch into a paranoid rant asserting the veracity
of the claims while simultaneously asserting no direct interest. WTF???
Perhaps you should resolve the dispute between the voices in your head
before forcing us to sort through them.

Maybe you should bring that whole thing up with your doctor and he can check
you medication levels, eh?

Tom

"bomba" wrote in message

Is there such a thing as too tight? Is there a danger of the skewer
being over-stressed and being more likely to fail?


Giant's bike manual suggested that the levers were too loose
if closing them didn't leave an imprint in my palm.

Jon


I heard Rimmer has a permanent imprint on his palm... oh yeah, that was
from squeezing his helmet too much ;-)
--
Slacker

I have a front disc brake on my Van Dessel Super Fly. I've only had to
do really hard braking on one ocassion

http://vandesselsports.com/b_sfly.shtml

Be gentle with him, JD.


Pete

what do you reckon? Taxi Cab yellow or high Altitude blue?

g

So here's a question: why doesn't the industry start making front-facing
dropouts for the forks? Upon hard braking, the torque would force the axle
into the back of the dropout if the skewer comes loose. My old Manitou fork
also a lip on each drop out, which saved me from a skewer failure once.

There must be a good reason - or is it just ignoring a problem?

-Collin


"G.T." wrote in message
om...

"Nelson Binch" wrote in message
. com...
Cross posts I don't participate in removed.

"James Annan" wrote in message
...
It's now a year since the QR/disk brake problem hit the headlines, and
I
thought some of you might be interested in hearing how the
manufacturers
are dealing with it.


Wow! How many people are having this problem? Out of how many disk
users?

Sorry, but every single time I've seen pictures of these 'incidents' it
looks like improperly set skewers to me.



It's much easier to blame the user. That's what you're doing and that's
what the manufacturers are doing. Even though they know the forces acting
to rip the wheel out of the dropout are high.

Greg

G.T. wrote:
| "Twohat" wrote in message
| ...
||
|| "G.T." wrote in message
|| om...
|||
|||
||| It's much easier to blame the user. That's what you're doing and
||| that's what the manufacturers are doing. Even though they know the
||| forces acting to rip the wheel out of the dropout are high.
|||
||| Greg
|||
|||
|| Been braking hard on bumpy bits for over a year now with my Manitou
|| Magnums with Shimano Drybollock discs with no probs.
|| I might believe it if I saw it happen, but I'm not impressed with the
|| quasi-scientific conspiration theorists.
|| Annan has an axe to grind, and I think he is scaremongering
|| un-necessarily IMHO.
||
|
| I hate scaremongering more than anybody (nobody is better at it than
| the US media), but I've read a couple of scary accounts, and believe
| me, I'll be keeping my front skewer very tight. And some day I'll
| switch to a through-axle.
|
| Greg

See, right there is the answer if you happen to feel a skewer is not enough.
Problem solved.


---
__o
_`\(,_ Cycling is life,
(_)/ (_) all the rest, just details.
The Nelson Paradigm =^o.o^=
http://intergalax.com

"Aha! Advancing on me only brings you closer to the cold wrath that is my
spork!" - Bucky the Katt
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.619 / Virus Database: 398 - Release Date: 3/10/2004

Jon Senior wrote:

With quick-release, if you have the skewers too tight, they can make the hub
bearings bind. Giant's bike manual suggested that the levers were too loose
if closing them didn't leave an imprint in my palm. Doing so meant the
wheels stopped rotating within about 3/4 revolution, compared to around 20
when loose.

That indicates a hub bearing adjustment error

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Russ wrote:

It's actually 1 Yr and 3 days :-(

Been wondering whether to get involved but decided I'd would.
Comments in reply to other posts
Legal action still pending, really ought to get on with it before someone
else goes the same way.

For anyone wondering what I'm on about see the link below

Russ
www.russ-appeal.org.uk


Good see you active on the ng's.

I think I disagree more than I agree about this issue, but regardless,
good luck and best wishes with the legal battle.
--
Slacker