Remembering how to tie my shoes, going back for a do-rag

On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 19:10:54 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Saturday, July 4, 2020 at 7:39:23 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 12:54:17 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 7/3/2020 10:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:21:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
For Jeff: The downside is I won't learn as much about glue and rubber
technology. (But thanks for that technical content.)

No problem. Looks like you've solved your shoe problem. You may not
be learning much about glue and rubber:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/hot-melt-glue/index.html

Hmm. If I'd seen that a few weeks ago, I might have continued using the
old cycling shoes!

I thought that might get your attention. Good to know that I'm not
the only person who repairs their own shoes:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/index.html#shoes.jpg

The reason for replacing my old shoes was a chunk of black sole rubber
disappeared. It didn't affect their cycling utility, but it looked
weird and seemed a harbinger of further trouble.

Well, there's another tool you might find useful. It's called a hot
air SMD (surface mount) desoldering station. It uses hot air to melt
solder, but will work just as well on hot melt glue:
https://www.google.com/search?q=hot+air+smd+desoldering+station&tbm=isch
The problem it solves is re-melting the hot melt glue after you've
applied it, and discovered that there are voids or areas that didn't
"stick". You'll need a few nozzles to concentrate the heat. A
hardware store heat gun might also work on low-temp hot melt glue.
You'll also need the accessory nozzles to concentrate the heat.

But your photo interested me enough to go shopping. While sitting at
my computer, of course (but wearing pants). I'm having Jeff B send me
some black hot melt glue, which until your photo, I didn't know existed.

I can also send you some of mine. Just one problem. I probably have
100 sticks of the black glue, but don't know who made it or the part
number. I haven't tried too many other hot melt glue sticks, so I
don't know if there's something special about it, or if it's just like
the other vendors products:
https://www.hotmelt.com/collections/hot-melt-glue-sticks

Besides the shoe repair, I've been wanting to cast a lens cover for
a certain set of binoculars, and another for a gun scope. I think
that glue may do the trick.

I think lens covers might be too thin for hot melt glue. That's the
domain of 3D printers:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=3d+printed+lens+cover
https://www.thingiverse.com/tag:lens_cap



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 7/4/2020 7:38 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 04 Jul 2020 16:39:21 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 12:54:17 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/3/2020 10:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:21:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
For Jeff: The downside is I won't learn as much about glue and rubber
technology. (But thanks for that technical content.)

No problem. Looks like you've solved your shoe problem. You may not
be learning much about glue and rubber:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/hot-melt-glue/index.html

Hmm. If I'd seen that a few weeks ago, I might have continued using the
old cycling shoes!

I thought that might get your attention. Good to know that I'm not
the only person who repairs their own shoes:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/index.html#shoes.jpg

Using hot melt glue doesn't work with every type of rubber or hot melt
glue. I got lucky and came close on my first attempt. The shoes in
the photo worked well as long as I was walking on a fairly flat
surface. However, when I started doing exercise walks through the
local state park, on some rather rough trails, the hot melt glue
eventually separated from the rubber sole, usually in large chunks. In
other words, adhesion wasn't good enough when the sole was flexed.

I did some experiments with surface preparation, which improved the
situation. Acetone seems to be the best cleaner. Cutting shallow
crosshatched grooves into the rubber sole helped. Note that hot melt
glue is usually rubber based, so there are probably few issues with
different rates of thermal expansion or material incompatibility.

The best I've done so far is to simulate rubberized concrete. I'm
using smooth sand, shredded soft rubber (bicycle inner tubes), small
chunks of powdered automobile tires, and black hot melt glue sticks.
It mostly works, but I don't believe I have the recipe optimized.

I had the bright idea of using translucent hot melt glue sticks, so I
could see when the glue line started to separate. Instead, I found
that the clear glue didn't stick anywhere as well as the black glue
sticks. At this time, I don't understand why.

A good question to ask is why not use made for the purpose Shoe Goo?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe_Goo
The problem is that it's too soft and wears out far too quickly. It
works great as a gap filler and for re-attaching soles, but fails
badly for replacing large worn areas, such as the heels.

A glue that worked quite well for most everything was Awesome Goo:
https://www.amazon.com/Awesome-Goo-CECOMINOD023727/dp/B003EB51CY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFKCWgiEFGU
I used some to fix a microphone cable. Ugly, but functional:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/awesome-goo/
Unfortunately, the stuff was expensive. The company disappeared about
8 years ago and the supply dried up.


The sole came off one of my wife's dress shoes and she brought it to
her "Lord and Master" to be repaired.

Not knowing a damned thing about shoe repair I eased on by one of
those "Shoe Repair" places at the local super market and looked at
what sort of "stuff" that guy was using to put shoes together with.

Regular old contact cement :-) So I glued her shoe using Construction
Cement, which is a sort of contact cement and a year or so later it is
still holding. Although to be honest she only wears shoes to "affairs"
(and before someone comments, sandals are the normal foot wear he-)
--
Cheers,

John B.


I had a leather shop for a neighbor for years and I have
some frequency in shoe repair shops all of whom use Barge
Cement:
https://www.bargeadhesive.com/

We use it here. Not all that expensive and keeps a good long
while in its steel tin.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 7/4/2020 10:42 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 19:10:54 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Saturday, July 4, 2020 at 7:39:23 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 12:54:17 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 7/3/2020 10:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:21:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
For Jeff: The downside is I won't learn as much about glue and rubber
technology. (But thanks for that technical content.)

No problem. Looks like you've solved your shoe problem. You may not
be learning much about glue and rubber:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/hot-melt-glue/index.html

Hmm. If I'd seen that a few weeks ago, I might have continued using the
old cycling shoes!

I thought that might get your attention. Good to know that I'm not
the only person who repairs their own shoes:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/index.html#shoes.jpg

The reason for replacing my old shoes was a chunk of black sole rubber
disappeared. It didn't affect their cycling utility, but it looked
weird and seemed a harbinger of further trouble.

Well, there's another tool you might find useful. It's called a hot
air SMD (surface mount) desoldering station. It uses hot air to melt
solder, but will work just as well on hot melt glue:
https://www.google.com/search?q=hot+air+smd+desoldering+station&tbm=isch
The problem it solves is re-melting the hot melt glue after you've
applied it, and discovered that there are voids or areas that didn't
"stick". You'll need a few nozzles to concentrate the heat. A
hardware store heat gun might also work on low-temp hot melt glue.
You'll also need the accessory nozzles to concentrate the heat.

I've got a heat gun. If necessary, I'll try to cobble together a nozzle
for that. I'm at the stage where I'm trying to minimize purchase of new
special purpose tools I'll seldom use. It's sad, I know!

But your photo interested me enough to go shopping. While sitting at
my computer, of course (but wearing pants). I'm having Jeff B send me
some black hot melt glue, which until your photo, I didn't know existed.

I can also send you some of mine. Just one problem. I probably have
100 sticks of the black glue, but don't know who made it or the part
number.

No need to send it, thanks. Jeff Bezos just promised to have it here
tomorrow. I'm hoping he'll deliver it personally. He and I go way back.

But it is too bad some of us are as distant as we are. I can envision a
colony of like-minded repair freaks trading tools, equipment and
experience. Not to mention obsolete bike parts!

One guy I knew, kind of well-to-do in a nice suburban home, said "Look
at this. It's crazy. I've got thousands of bucks sunk into a riding
mower, a snow blower, a rototiller, a weed whacker, a chainsaw and more.
And so does my next door neighbor and the guy across the street and the
guy next to him. We should have just bought one set of equipment and
shared it!"

I think lens covers might be too thin for hot melt glue. That's the
domain of 3D printers:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=3d+printed+lens+cover
https://www.thingiverse.com/tag:lens_cap

Come to think of it, you're right; lens caps are a perfect 3-d printing
project. But again, I'm trying to minimize purchase of new special
purpose tools I'll seldom use.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 7/5/2020 12:37 PM, AMuzi wrote:


I had a leather shop for a neighbor for years and I have some frequency
in shoe repair shops all of whom use Barge Cement:
https://www.bargeadhesive.com/

We use it here. Not all that expensive and keeps a good long while in
its steel tin.

So far, that brand's the best I've found for reattaching hiking boot
soles. Others I've tried have failed.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sun, 05 Jul 2020 11:37:02 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

I had a leather shop for a neighbor for years and I have
some frequency in shoe repair shops all of whom use Barge
Cement:
https://www.bargeadhesive.com/

We use it here. Not all that expensive and keeps a good long
while in its steel tin.

The "original formula" Barge Cement was banned as a VoC in California
due to the use of toluene solvent. Barge then introduced the "TF"
version, which increased the amount of n-heptane in place of the
toluene. Despite this seemingly minor change in the solvent used, I
found that the "TF" version didn't stick as well as the "original
formula". For example, I had problems convincing the new "TF"
formulation to stick to aluminum unless I clean both sides of the
joint thoroughly with 91% alcohol or acetone. I didn't need to do
that with the "original formula" version.

$8 for a 2 oz tube retail. Ouch.
https://www.bargeadhesive.com/products.html

Drivel:
"Sticky subject"
https://photos.app.goo.gl/rHik3ei2LENhYFEW9
I didn't feel like emptying the box onto the floor. The box is about
9 inches deep. There's another smaller box of adhesives buried
somewhere in the mess that I'm moving from my office. I recall
there's a tube of "TF" Barge Cement in there somewhere.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 03/07/2020 07:44, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 03 Jul 2020 00:42:57 -0400, Joy Beeson
wrote:

On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 13:39:41 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

I can see wanting to avoid special shoes, but you're buying special shoes.

I don't like to change my pedals when I change my shoes.

Shimano makes at least one model of dual sided pedal. Flat on one side
and SPD cleat on the other. One model is the M324 and I think there is
a second but can't find a reference to them at the moment.

The M324's that I have, on 2 bikes, once they are "broken in" hang
almost vertically so to use the flat side you sort of kick the top of
the pedal backward and to use the cleat side you kick the top forward.
I find that after ridding them for a while it becomes almost automatic
to kick the right way to get the side that you want.

I ride M324s on all my bikes and I agree. Well made, sit vertically,
user serviceable if you should have any trouble. Changed the
bearing/greased one pair at something like 25,000kms.

Very good compromise pedal.

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 12:38:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/4/2020 10:42 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
I've got a heat gun. If necessary, I'll try to cobble together a nozzle
for that.

A mangled food can and a hose clamp should work. I'm not sure how hot
it will get, but aim for about 120C for the low temp glue, and 220C
for the high temp flavor:
https://www.hotmelt.com/blogs/blog/high-temp-hot-melt-vs-low-temp-hot-melt
For measuring, get a cheap type K thermocouple and a digital
thermometer or multimeter with a thermocouple input:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DLW3MNV/146-8512226-0708830
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M84554V
or a IR thermometer that covers the range. I have one of these:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N23IL33
but they seem to be discontinued. Note the 12:1 optics instead of the
usual 8:1.

I'm at the stage where I'm trying to minimize purchase of new
special purpose tools I'll seldom use. It's sad, I know!

The real problem with collecting such gadgets is having too many
friends that like to borrow stuff and never return them.

No need to send it, thanks. Jeff Bezos just promised to have it here
tomorrow. I'm hoping he'll deliver it personally. He and I go way back.

I prefer eBay. Details on demand.

But it is too bad some of us are as distant as we are. I can envision a
colony of like-minded repair freaks trading tools, equipment and
experience. Not to mention obsolete bike parts!

I tried to do that about 30 years ago with a "consultants exchange and
co-op". Besides tools, parts, computers, software, etc, we did
service calls for each other so that we could take some time off. It
wasn't perfect, but was on it's way there when my father had a stroke,
and I had to temporarily move to Smog Angeles. I still loan and
borrow things, but individually, not as a group.

One guy I knew, kind of well-to-do in a nice suburban home, said "Look
at this. It's crazy. I've got thousands of bucks sunk into a riding
mower, a snow blower, a rototiller, a weed whacker, a chainsaw and more.
And so does my next door neighbor and the guy across the street and the
guy next to him. We should have just bought one set of equipment and
shared it!"

Yeah, that works, until someone borrows something and returns it
broken. It only works if everyone trusts everyone else, and everyone
is reasonable honest. I've had problems in both areas.

I think lens covers might be too thin for hot melt glue. That's the
domain of 3D printers:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=3d+printed+lens+cover
https://www.thingiverse.com/tag:lens_cap

Come to think of it, you're right; lens caps are a perfect 3-d printing
project. But again, I'm trying to minimize purchase of new special
purpose tools I'll seldom use.

I'm not suggesting that you buy a 3D printer. Even if the machine
were free, the effort involved in just learning how to use it properly
will be more than what the lens caps are worth. If you want to take
the time to learn, you can rent a 3D printer:
https://www.google.com/search?q=3d+printer+rental
A friend did that for about $60/week by renting 4 different 3D
printers over a 2 month period. He wanted to test ride some possible
purchases, but in the end, decided he didn't need one. Recently, the
local library district bought a 3D printer for general use. However,
the pandemic made it inaccessible. There are also private schools
that will trade the use of their 3D printing equipment for a rental
fee and possibly taking some classes. Lastly, there are services that
will make anything you want for a price. Use Google to search your
area for 3D printing services.

Incidentallly, the real problem with 3D printing is not the price or
the learning curve. It's that many jobs take overnight or longer to
run. That can make you very unpopular at home while a noisy machine
runs all night.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 5 Jul 2020 12:38:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/4/2020 10:42 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 19:10:54 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Saturday, July 4, 2020 at 7:39:23 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jul 2020 12:54:17 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 7/3/2020 10:19 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jul 2020 12:21:57 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
For Jeff: The downside is I won't learn as much about glue and rubber
technology. (But thanks for that technical content.)

No problem. Looks like you've solved your shoe problem. You may not
be learning much about glue and rubber:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/hot-melt-glue/index.html

Hmm. If I'd seen that a few weeks ago, I might have continued using the
old cycling shoes!

I thought that might get your attention. Good to know that I'm not
the only person who repairs their own shoes:
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/index.html#shoes.jpg

The reason for replacing my old shoes was a chunk of black sole rubber
disappeared. It didn't affect their cycling utility, but it looked
weird and seemed a harbinger of further trouble.

Well, there's another tool you might find useful. It's called a hot
air SMD (surface mount) desoldering station. It uses hot air to melt
solder, but will work just as well on hot melt glue:
https://www.google.com/search?q=hot+air+smd+desoldering+station&tbm=isch
The problem it solves is re-melting the hot melt glue after you've
applied it, and discovered that there are voids or areas that didn't
"stick". You'll need a few nozzles to concentrate the heat. A
hardware store heat gun might also work on low-temp hot melt glue.
You'll also need the accessory nozzles to concentrate the heat.

I've got a heat gun. If necessary, I'll try to cobble together a nozzle
for that. I'm at the stage where I'm trying to minimize purchase of new
special purpose tools I'll seldom use. It's sad, I know!

But your photo interested me enough to go shopping. While sitting at
my computer, of course (but wearing pants). I'm having Jeff B send me
some black hot melt glue, which until your photo, I didn't know existed.

I can also send you some of mine. Just one problem. I probably have
100 sticks of the black glue, but don't know who made it or the part
number.

No need to send it, thanks. Jeff Bezos just promised to have it here
tomorrow. I'm hoping he'll deliver it personally. He and I go way back.

But it is too bad some of us are as distant as we are. I can envision a
colony of like-minded repair freaks trading tools, equipment and
experience. Not to mention obsolete bike parts!

One guy I knew, kind of well-to-do in a nice suburban home, said "Look
at this. It's crazy. I've got thousands of bucks sunk into a riding
mower, a snow blower, a rototiller, a weed whacker, a chainsaw and more.
And so does my next door neighbor and the guy across the street and the
guy next to him. We should have just bought one set of equipment and
shared it!"


There used to be companies that did that as a business. You needed a
jack-hammer for a couple of days to break up the driveway you could
rent one, along with the air compressor to power it. Are those sort of
places all gone now?

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 06 Jul 2020 05:47:52 +0700, John B.
wrote:
There used to be companies that did that as a business. You needed a
jack-hammer for a couple of days to break up the driveway you could
rent one, along with the air compressor to power it. Are those sort of
places all gone now?

Still very much in business:
https://www.unitedrentals.com
880+ US/Canada locations:
https://www.unitedrentals.com/locations#/

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 7/5/2020 1:57 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 05 Jul 2020 11:37:02 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

I had a leather shop for a neighbor for years and I have
some frequency in shoe repair shops all of whom use Barge
Cement:
https://www.bargeadhesive.com/

We use it here. Not all that expensive and keeps a good long
while in its steel tin.

The "original formula" Barge Cement was banned as a VoC in California
due to the use of toluene solvent. Barge then introduced the "TF"
version, which increased the amount of n-heptane in place of the
toluene. Despite this seemingly minor change in the solvent used, I
found that the "TF" version didn't stick as well as the "original
formula". For example, I had problems convincing the new "TF"
formulation to stick to aluminum unless I clean both sides of the
joint thoroughly with 91% alcohol or acetone. I didn't need to do
that with the "original formula" version.

$8 for a 2 oz tube retail. Ouch.
https://www.bargeadhesive.com/products.html

Drivel:
"Sticky subject"
https://photos.app.goo.gl/rHik3ei2LENhYFEW9
I didn't feel like emptying the box onto the floor. The box is about
9 inches deep. There's another smaller box of adhesives buried
somewhere in the mess that I'm moving from my office. I recall
there's a tube of "TF" Barge Cement in there somewhere.

My box of glues is about 8" x 8" x 16". But most are in their original
hanger packaging, so that takes up much more space than just the tubes
or bottles.


--
- Frank Krygowski