Lezyne Deca Drive 1500XXL Report

Frank Krygowski writes:

On 3/3/2017 2:03 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, March 3, 2017 at 8:01:30 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/3/2017 10:43 AM, sms wrote:
On 3/2/2017 10:08 PM, James wrote:
On 03/03/17 16:55, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 3 Mar 2017 14:03:45 +1100, James
wrote:

On 03/03/17 12:28, John B. wrote:

While I am not arguing the merits of any light system I would like
to comment that forgetting to charge a battery is hardly a logical
argument against battery powered lighting.

One could argue with equal logic that pants are not an effective
covering as one has to remember to put them on before going out the
door. -- Cheers,


However, if your wardrobe dressed you in pants without you having to
remember to put them on, as a dynamo provides your light with power
without you having to remember to charge it first...

Ah, but your wardrobe does not dress you and I wonder. Have you ever
left for work without your pants on?

About as often as I've forgotten to charge the battery in my car. Oh,
that's right, I don't have to remember because the car does that for me.

As long as you remember to put fuel in the tank. And the car reminds you
when this is necessary. Just like many modern battery powered devices
tell you the level of charge, though this is an area of improvement for
bicycle lights.

Can you imagine a car with a separate headlight battery, one that you'd
need to remember to charge before you left your house? How popular
would that be?

And what would you do if you were driving that car home from work in the
winter, and the "Charge your headlight now!" indicator came on?

Imagine having to put gas or oil into a car. That would be
outrageous! Could you imagine a car that had an indicator that said
"fill your gas tank now"? Pfffff.

Well, if battery-operated bike lights had an analog display showing
remaining battery capacity, it would have saved several of my riding
friends from having to borrow spare lights from me.

IIRC, the very early imported Volkswagen Beetles had no gas gauge.
When the engine started sputtering, drivers switched to "Reserve" mode
and started looking for a gas station. That system was never popular,
even though there were plenty of gas stations in most places. VW
installed gas gauges sometime in the 1960s.

I used to drive one of those -- belonged to my mother, who had bought it
new. The system worked fine as long as (1) the driver understood it,
(2) the last person to fill the tank had remembered to move the little
foot lever back, and (3) it wasn't that far between gas stations.

All in all, better than vacuum-operated windshield wipers.

Some battery bike lights have a vaguely similar system, an LED that
changes color when juice is low, even though battery charging stations
don't make sense for bikes. Most battery bike lights lack even that
system. They just die when they're empty.

I still have a Dinotte light that rapidly flashed a few times when it
was getting low on juice, similar to the old VW interface. The indicate
action was to turn it to "low". It would have been ok except that by the
time it flashed there really wasn't much juice left. Maybe my
rechargable batteries were just crap.

--

On Friday, March 3, 2017 at 11:54:29 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/3/2017 2:03 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, March 3, 2017 at 8:01:30 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/3/2017 10:43 AM, sms wrote:
On 3/2/2017 10:08 PM, James wrote:
On 03/03/17 16:55, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 3 Mar 2017 14:03:45 +1100, James
wrote:

On 03/03/17 12:28, John B. wrote:

While I am not arguing the merits of any light system I would like
to comment that forgetting to charge a battery is hardly a logical
argument against battery powered lighting.

One could argue with equal logic that pants are not an effective
covering as one has to remember to put them on before going out the
door. -- Cheers,


However, if your wardrobe dressed you in pants without you having to
remember to put them on, as a dynamo provides your light with power
without you having to remember to charge it first...

Ah, but your wardrobe does not dress you and I wonder. Have you ever
left for work without your pants on?

About as often as I've forgotten to charge the battery in my car. Oh,
that's right, I don't have to remember because the car does that for me.

As long as you remember to put fuel in the tank. And the car reminds you
when this is necessary. Just like many modern battery powered devices
tell you the level of charge, though this is an area of improvement for
bicycle lights.

Can you imagine a car with a separate headlight battery, one that you'd
need to remember to charge before you left your house? How popular
would that be?

And what would you do if you were driving that car home from work in the
winter, and the "Charge your headlight now!" indicator came on?

Imagine having to put gas or oil into a car. That would be outrageous! Could you imagine a car that had an indicator that said "fill your gas tank now"? Pfffff.

Well, if battery-operated bike lights had an analog display showing
remaining battery capacity, it would have saved several of my riding
friends from having to borrow spare lights from me.

IIRC, the very early imported Volkswagen Beetles had no gas gauge. When
the engine started sputtering, drivers switched to "Reserve" mode and
started looking for a gas station. That system was never popular, even
though there were plenty of gas stations in most places. VW installed
gas gauges sometime in the 1960s.

I learned to drive in one of those. When it ran out, you would turn the knob under the seat -- but I thought it had a gauge. Maybe not.

Some battery bike lights have a vaguely similar system, an LED that
changes color when juice is low, even though battery charging stations
don't make sense for bikes. Most battery bike lights lack even that
system. They just die when they're empty.

All of my lights have a low-battery indicator, which is noticeable on the front light, but I don't pay attention to the rear. It has gone dead . . . recently.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 3/3/2017 12:53 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:

snip

I still have a Dinotte light that rapidly flashed a few times when it
was getting low on juice, similar to the old VW interface. The indicate
action was to turn it to "low". It would have been ok except that by the
time it flashed there really wasn't much juice left. Maybe my
rechargable batteries were just crap.

In the olden days of NiMH batteries it was a lot harder to due battery
fuel gauges because the discharge curve of NiMH batteries is so
nonlinear. You could do a look-up table of voltage versus capacity but
that would require a processor. But it wasn't hard to do a single
voltage point that indicated that the batteries were about to be exhausted.

With LiPo, an A/D converter is all that's needed. But probably all the
new lights now have an embedded processor with an A/D inside anyway. So
now they could even do a fuel gauge even with NiMH, but no one uses NiMH
anymore.

Discharge curves:
http://nordicgroup.us/battery/liiondischgrid.gif
http://nordicgroup.us/battery/nimhdischgrid.gif

I doubt if anyone is doing coulomb counting on bicycle lights yet.

I now know what it feels like to be a compulsive gambler.


bought the aux van lighting equipment in 2006.

Hella halogen $100/2 with 2 bulb packs at $15

online LED equipment sold for @$125

equipment looking exactly the same as the 125 group sold by Rigid for $1400

Amazon sold me an LED backup lamp works effectively wit low lumens then I bought a common 7000 lumen Jeep bar at uh 16" ? SPEW .... its use is questionable waiting for new design philosophy.

what the 400 and up rally lights are like from inside the van ?

On 3/3/2017 2:09 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, March 3, 2017 at 10:39:06 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
On 3/2/2017 2:18 PM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

Please do. My approach was to put the probes in series across one leg of the light circuit. Is that right? The load remains in the circuit.

Well, what was the AC current? And what was the AC voltage under load?
Did you use a true rms meter or a free VOM from Harbor Freight? You can
buy a true RMS meter from Circuit Specialists for $39, you don't need a
Fluke meter.

I can try it on my SP dynamo too when I get a chance. But it seems to be
operating as expected.

I would doubt the light before doubting the dynamo.

Comparing it to a battery powered lamp, I'd estimate it at around 200
lumens with the best LED dynamo lamp I have. I'll have the new Herrman's
200 lumen dynamo light
http://www.herrmans.eu/start-english/products?familyId=2209 in a week
or so and will do another test. I do like the dynamo light on my folder
because it can fold with the light in place, whereas a handlebar mount
light needs to be removed when folding.

I also found a new 5.5W/430 lumen (430 measured/500 theoretical) head
light for a 12VAC dynamo or 12VDC battery, but most 6V dynamos can't put
out 5.5W except at very high speed. But the light will work with a 6V
dynamo just at lower output. Haven't bought one yet. The beam pattern
photo is not conclusive, but it has a very cool swivel mount. I do have
an old 12V tire drive dynamo that I picked up when a local drugstore
chain was purchased and destroyed by CVS, and they got rid of all their
bicycle stuff, including a selection of Park tools.

I was totally overcome by buyers remorse after seeing the IQ-X beam pattern -- a lower cost light with more output, and available locally. http://www.joe-bike.com/product/busc...light-2265.htm Look at that pavement scorching beam! Non-bulbous. I want to buy it just to see if it is really that good.

I now know what it feels like to be a compulsive gambler.

We're in an era of rapid technological change. Lots of products improve
significantly year by year. Early adopters always hoping for the "best"
churn through lots of purchases, whether for bragging rights or because
they're addicted to "Gee whiz!" emotions attached to having "the best."

I guess it keeps the economy going. But I tend to buy into stable
technology, once others have volunteered to discover the bugs, take
their product in for recalls, etc.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 3/3/2017 1:52 PM, jbeattie wrote:

All of my lights have a low-battery indicator, which is noticeable on the front light, but I don't pay attention to the rear. It has gone dead . . . recently.

What I'd love to see on non-phone/non-tablet devices is implementation
of Qualcomm's Quick Charge technology. There's no good reason to be
charging batteries so slowly.

https://www.qualcomm.com/products/features/quick-charge

On Fri, 3 Mar 2017 00:19:30 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/2/2017 8:28 PM, John B. wrote:


While I am not arguing the merits of any light system I would like to
comment that forgetting to charge a battery is hardly a logical
argument against battery powered lighting.

One could argue with equal logic that pants are not an effective
covering as one has to remember to put them on before going out the
door.

The big difference is, normal people notice immediately whether they are
wearing pants or not. But many people don't notice until dark that
their disposable batteries have been used to within 10% of discharge.
Or don't notice until dark that they actually forgot to plug in the
charger the previous evening. Or don't notice until too late that the
expensive old rechargeable battery now holds only a third of its stated
capacity when new.


It all sounds so logical....
I guess I must not be normal as installing a charged battery is part
of my "getting ready to ride" routine. Just like putting on my pants,
or even my shoes, or (gasp) checking the tire pressure.

Do these forgetful people also ride around on flat tires, because they
forgot to pump them up? Do they frequently arrive at the store with no
money or credit cards?

Again, I've ridden with otherwise very competent cyclists who have had
those things happen to them. I'm talking about double century riders,
very competitive racers, daily commuters, etc. My big moment of
conversion happened on a solo tour, when my battery light crapped out
five miles before my campground destination. I didn't think I'd be
riding in the dark at all, but hilly territory slowed me a lot.

I suppose the irony is that those (and other) sorts of glitches may
happen more often to people who ride at night only occasionally. One
might argue that the cost of a dynamo system is thus harder for them to
amortize. The people whose life on the bike is the same every day may
get rock solid recharging habits, and have problems only when they think
they'll be home before dark, but get delayed for some reason. At that
point, they'll wish they'd attached the headlight just in case.

Again, I'm not trying to convert anyone. But investing in dynamo
systems - cheaper than a new set of cranks - has made that part of my
life much simpler. It adds a lot of practicality to a bike.

Well, as I previously said, I'm not arguing lights pro or con, but
people who argue that "Ooooh, I forgot the battery" are arguing from a
pretty weak position unless they are standing there with no pants on.

Perhaps if no one loaned them a battery when "they forget" they would
remember next time?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 3 Mar 2017 17:08:14 +1100, James
wrote:

On 03/03/17 16:55, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 3 Mar 2017 14:03:45 +1100, James
wrote:

On 03/03/17 12:28, John B. wrote:

While I am not arguing the merits of any light system I would like
to comment that forgetting to charge a battery is hardly a logical
argument against battery powered lighting.

One could argue with equal logic that pants are not an effective
covering as one has to remember to put them on before going out the
door. -- Cheers,


However, if your wardrobe dressed you in pants without you having to
remember to put them on, as a dynamo provides your light with power
without you having to remember to charge it first...

Ah, but your wardrobe does not dress you and I wonder. Have you ever
left for work without your pants on?

About as often as I've forgotten to charge the battery in my car. Oh,
that's right, I don't have to remember because the car does that for me.

I can only assume that your wardrobe, i.e., "a tall piece of furniture
that provides storage space for clothes; has a door and rails or hooks
for hanging clothes", grabs you by the throat as soon as you arise,
and stuffs you into a pair of pants?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 3 Mar 2017 14:54:26 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/3/2017 2:03 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, March 3, 2017 at 8:01:30 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/3/2017 10:43 AM, sms wrote:
On 3/2/2017 10:08 PM, James wrote:
On 03/03/17 16:55, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 3 Mar 2017 14:03:45 +1100, James
wrote:

On 03/03/17 12:28, John B. wrote:

While I am not arguing the merits of any light system I would like
to comment that forgetting to charge a battery is hardly a logical
argument against battery powered lighting.

One could argue with equal logic that pants are not an effective
covering as one has to remember to put them on before going out the
door. -- Cheers,


However, if your wardrobe dressed you in pants without you having to
remember to put them on, as a dynamo provides your light with power
without you having to remember to charge it first...

Ah, but your wardrobe does not dress you and I wonder. Have you ever
left for work without your pants on?

About as often as I've forgotten to charge the battery in my car. Oh,
that's right, I don't have to remember because the car does that for me.

As long as you remember to put fuel in the tank. And the car reminds you
when this is necessary. Just like many modern battery powered devices
tell you the level of charge, though this is an area of improvement for
bicycle lights.

Can you imagine a car with a separate headlight battery, one that you'd
need to remember to charge before you left your house? How popular
would that be?

And what would you do if you were driving that car home from work in the
winter, and the "Charge your headlight now!" indicator came on?

Imagine having to put gas or oil into a car. That would be outrageous! Could you imagine a car that had an indicator that said "fill your gas tank now"? Pfffff.

Well, if battery-operated bike lights had an analog display showing
remaining battery capacity, it would have saved several of my riding
friends from having to borrow spare lights from me.

IIRC, the very early imported Volkswagen Beetles had no gas gauge. When
the engine started sputtering, drivers switched to "Reserve" mode and
started looking for a gas station. That system was never popular, even
though there were plenty of gas stations in most places. VW installed
gas gauges sometime in the 1960s.

Yes, and the Ford Model T, which were built from 1908 until 1927,
nearly 20 years, had no fuel gauge. Think of it, more than 15 million
cars built without a fuel gauge. At one time half of all the
automobiles in the world were Model T's (without a fuel gauge).

But maybe early 20th century Americans were more self reliant than
modern folks?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 3/3/2017 7:30 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 3 Mar 2017 14:54:26 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 3/3/2017 2:03 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, March 3, 2017 at 8:01:30 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/3/2017 10:43 AM, sms wrote:
On 3/2/2017 10:08 PM, James wrote:
On 03/03/17 16:55, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 3 Mar 2017 14:03:45 +1100, James
wrote:

On 03/03/17 12:28, John B. wrote:

While I am not arguing the merits of any light system I would like
to comment that forgetting to charge a battery is hardly a logical
argument against battery powered lighting.

One could argue with equal logic that pants are not an effective
covering as one has to remember to put them on before going out the
door. -- Cheers,


However, if your wardrobe dressed you in pants without you having to
remember to put them on, as a dynamo provides your light with power
without you having to remember to charge it first...

Ah, but your wardrobe does not dress you and I wonder. Have you ever
left for work without your pants on?

About as often as I've forgotten to charge the battery in my car. Oh,
that's right, I don't have to remember because the car does that for me.

As long as you remember to put fuel in the tank. And the car reminds you
when this is necessary. Just like many modern battery powered devices
tell you the level of charge, though this is an area of improvement for
bicycle lights.

Can you imagine a car with a separate headlight battery, one that you'd
need to remember to charge before you left your house? How popular
would that be?

And what would you do if you were driving that car home from work in the
winter, and the "Charge your headlight now!" indicator came on?

Imagine having to put gas or oil into a car. That would be outrageous! Could you imagine a car that had an indicator that said "fill your gas tank now"? Pfffff.

Well, if battery-operated bike lights had an analog display showing
remaining battery capacity, it would have saved several of my riding
friends from having to borrow spare lights from me.

IIRC, the very early imported Volkswagen Beetles had no gas gauge. When
the engine started sputtering, drivers switched to "Reserve" mode and
started looking for a gas station. That system was never popular, even
though there were plenty of gas stations in most places. VW installed
gas gauges sometime in the 1960s.

Yes, and the Ford Model T, which were built from 1908 until 1927,
nearly 20 years, had no fuel gauge. Think of it, more than 15 million
cars built without a fuel gauge. At one time half of all the
automobiles in the world were Model T's (without a fuel gauge).

But maybe early 20th century Americans were more self reliant than
modern folks?


Also no fuel pump, no water pump, no battery, manual spark
advance and so on. But working on a T impresses one with the
care taken in design and execution. They're a real handful
to drive but at least I can, unlike modern
electronics-encrusted cars. YMMV as always.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971