Bottom Bracket frame failure

I just bought a vintage Torpado Superlight frame from about 1985.
This frame is made of Columbus SLX tubing and was their top of the line

frame from that time. The frame is in very nice condition with no rust
and a clean bottom bracket shell. The bottom bracket shell is an
english threaded Cinelli. Torpado cut a decorative "T" in the bottom
bracket shell that measures about 2cm X 2cm. When my LBS professional
looked the frame over, he was critical of the cutout. He told me that
Torpado went out of business because of bottom bracket frame failures.
He felt that the cutout in the bottom of the shell might cause failure
if standing on the pedals. Does anyone have any experience with this
issue? Especially with Torpadoes? Another employee felt that this issue

diminished with the use of a modern cartridge bottom bracket. Any
opinions from the group would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

wrote:
I just bought a vintage Torpado Superlight frame from about 1985.
This frame is made of Columbus SLX tubing and was their top of the line

frame from that time. The frame is in very nice condition with no rust
and a clean bottom bracket shell. The bottom bracket shell is an
english threaded Cinelli. Torpado cut a decorative "T" in the bottom
bracket shell that measures about 2cm X 2cm. When my LBS professional
looked the frame over, he was critical of the cutout. He told me that
Torpado went out of business because of bottom bracket frame failures.
He felt that the cutout in the bottom of the shell might cause failure
if standing on the pedals. Does anyone have any experience with this
issue? Especially with Torpadoes? Another employee felt that this issue

diminished with the use of a modern cartridge bottom bracket. Any
opinions from the group would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


Your lbs staff are full of horse-hockey (http://tinyurl.com/6ywxo).
Most water comes in the top and drains down to the bottom bracket area,
where it often sits. At least your bottom bracket shell is ventilated.

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Ita...rpado_main.htm
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Ita...do_sl_full.htm

If you're using a traditional bottom bracket, you must make sure that
the plastic accordion sleeve is in place to protect your bearings. If
you're using a cart. bb, no worries, I guess (? - comments?).

HOWEVER, you never mentioned what the mechanic actually saw regarding
the condition of the bottom bracket area. You never mentioned the
overall condition of the bike either. If it hasn't rusted yet (only 20
years?), do you think it's going to disintegrate soon? If you're really
concerned, just make sure you drain the bike after a rainy ride and let
it dry. Stand bike on rear wheel and watch the water run out the vent
holes in the chain stays! Jobst insists that grease in and around the
seat post/seat tube junction will stop it but it hasn't been my
experience that this is foolproof. It does help though. You have to be
fastidious about it. Maybe spray a little oil in the bottom bracket
area once or twice a year (remove bb)?


Robin Hubert

Robin Hubert wrote:

HOWEVER, you never mentioned what the mechanic actually saw regarding
the condition of the bottom bracket area. You never mentioned the
overall condition of the bike either. If it hasn't rusted yet (only 20
years?), do you think it's going to disintegrate soon? If you're really
concerned, just make sure you drain the bike after a rainy ride and let
it dry. Stand bike on rear wheel and watch the water run out the vent
holes in the chain stays! Jobst insists that grease in and around the
seat post/seat tube junction will stop it but it hasn't been my
experience that this is foolproof. It does help though. You have to be
fastidious about it. Maybe spray a little oil in the bottom bracket
area once or twice a year (remove bb)?

If it's got a big "T" cut in the bottom of the shell, I suspect that
drainage isn't a problem.

On 10 Apr 2005 07:47:49 -0700, wrote:

I just bought a vintage Torpado Superlight frame from about 1985.
This frame is made of Columbus SLX tubing and was their top of the line

frame from that time. The frame is in very nice condition with no rust
and a clean bottom bracket shell. The bottom bracket shell is an
english threaded Cinelli. Torpado cut a decorative "T" in the bottom
bracket shell that measures about 2cm X 2cm. When my LBS professional
looked the frame over, he was critical of the cutout. He told me that
Torpado went out of business because of bottom bracket frame failures.
He felt that the cutout in the bottom of the shell might cause failure
if standing on the pedals. Does anyone have any experience with this
issue? Especially with Torpadoes? Another employee felt that this issue

diminished with the use of a modern cartridge bottom bracket. Any
opinions from the group would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Italian (and other) builders have been carving their initials in the bottom
bracket shell for decades without problem. I doubt that the "T" is more
dangerous to the integrity of the bike than any other letter or playing card
suit.

Ron

On 10 Apr 2005 07:47:49 -0700, wrote:

I just bought a vintage Torpado Superlight frame from about 1985.
This frame is made of Columbus SLX tubing and was their top of the line

frame from that time. The frame is in very nice condition with no rust
and a clean bottom bracket shell. The bottom bracket shell is an
english threaded Cinelli. Torpado cut a decorative "T" in the bottom
bracket shell that measures about 2cm X 2cm. When my LBS professional
looked the frame over, he was critical of the cutout. He told me that
Torpado went out of business because of bottom bracket frame failures.
He felt that the cutout in the bottom of the shell might cause failure
if standing on the pedals. Does anyone have any experience with this
issue? Especially with Torpadoes? Another employee felt that this issue

diminished with the use of a modern cartridge bottom bracket. Any
opinions from the group would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

If you're at all concerned, make sure that it has a cartridge-type BB
installed, and forget about it. Lots of bikes have a hole in the BB
shell. The part of the shell that's stressed heavily is the area
around the tube joints. The bottom of the shell is unlikely to fail
in heavy service, even with a T-shaped cutout of the size you
describe. I should note that hundreds of thousands (at least) of
bikes sold in the US had a BB shell that was made from mild steel that
was not even seamless; there was a seam across the bottom which was
either unfused or poorly brazed, and those BB shells still don't fall
apart after many years of being ridden. A mere cutout in a sound tube
is not going to cause the tube to fail any more easily than those
would have.

As for the statement of BB shell breakage being the reason that
Torpado went under, it's not. They fell victim to the shrinking
market for and falling profitability of non-exotic bikes made outside
of China/Taiwan/etc. This has been reducing the number of makers for
several decades.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On 10 Apr 2005 07:47:49 -0700, wrote:

I just bought a vintage Torpado Superlight frame from about 1985.
This frame is made of Columbus SLX tubing and was their top of the line

frame from that time. The frame is in very nice condition with no rust
and a clean bottom bracket shell. The bottom bracket shell is an
english threaded Cinelli. Torpado cut a decorative "T" in the bottom
bracket shell that measures about 2cm X 2cm. When my LBS professional
looked the frame over, he was critical of the cutout. He told me that
Torpado went out of business because of bottom bracket frame failures.
He felt that the cutout in the bottom of the shell might cause failure
if standing on the pedals. Does anyone have any experience with this
issue? Especially with Torpadoes? Another employee felt that this issue

diminished with the use of a modern cartridge bottom bracket. Any
opinions from the group would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Just for comparison, here are some bottom bracket designs including some extreme
cutouts. Just go to the first one and the keep hitting next.

http://www2.inforyoma.or.jp/~tadokoro/bb/bbindex.html

I really don't think your Torp has a problem.

Ron

RonSonic wrote:
On 10 Apr 2005 07:47:49 -0700, wrote:

I just bought a vintage Torpado Superlight frame from about 1985.
This frame is made of Columbus SLX tubing and was their top of the
line

frame from that time. The frame is in very nice condition with no
rust and a clean bottom bracket shell. The bottom bracket shell is an
english threaded Cinelli. Torpado cut a decorative "T" in the bottom
bracket shell that measures about 2cm X 2cm. When my LBS professional
looked the frame over, he was critical of the cutout. He told me that
Torpado went out of business because of bottom bracket frame
failures. He felt that the cutout in the bottom of the shell might
cause failure if standing on the pedals. Does anyone have any
experience with this issue? Especially with Torpadoes? Another
employee felt that this issue

diminished with the use of a modern cartridge bottom bracket. Any
opinions from the group would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Just for comparison, here are some bottom bracket designs including
some extreme cutouts. Just go to the first one and the keep hitting
next.

http://www2.inforyoma.or.jp/~tadokoro/bb/bbindex.html

I really don't think your Torp has a problem.

Ron

I hate to be the dissenter here, but nobody here has described WHY it's not
an issue. Can anybody here do a quick FBD and describe why the BB shell
itself is not a high stress point? I'm asking because I don't know and I'm
curious myself, plus I'm putting off doing homework currently.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 05:47:17 GMT, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
wrote:

RonSonic wrote:
On 10 Apr 2005 07:47:49 -0700, wrote:

I just bought a vintage Torpado Superlight frame from about 1985.
This frame is made of Columbus SLX tubing and was their top of the
line

frame from that time. The frame is in very nice condition with no
rust and a clean bottom bracket shell. The bottom bracket shell is an
english threaded Cinelli. Torpado cut a decorative "T" in the bottom
bracket shell that measures about 2cm X 2cm. When my LBS professional
looked the frame over, he was critical of the cutout. He told me that
Torpado went out of business because of bottom bracket frame
failures. He felt that the cutout in the bottom of the shell might
cause failure if standing on the pedals. Does anyone have any
experience with this issue? Especially with Torpadoes? Another
employee felt that this issue

diminished with the use of a modern cartridge bottom bracket. Any
opinions from the group would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Just for comparison, here are some bottom bracket designs including
some extreme cutouts. Just go to the first one and the keep hitting
next.

http://www2.inforyoma.or.jp/~tadokoro/bb/bbindex.html

I really don't think your Torp has a problem.

Ron

I hate to be the dissenter here, but nobody here has described WHY it's not
an issue. Can anybody here do a quick FBD and describe why the BB shell
itself is not a high stress point? I'm asking because I don't know and I'm
curious myself, plus I'm putting off doing homework currently.

And if you're anything like me you'll stay up all night calculating what you
want to in order to avoid homework.

I'd be interested to see the numbers myself, but consider it a pretty well
settled matter from a practical angle.

Ron