Liquid calories?

I picked up a copy of ``Bicycle Medicine'' last week as it seemed to b
the best fit for my needs; namely high milage commuter who's no
adverse to going fast

Not that far through it however the first section's all abou
nutrition. In that section the author states that training for tw
plus hours a day are always fighting glycogen depletion and shoul
consume liquid calories, i.e. a sports drink of some description

My commute's about 60-75 minutes each way depending on wind, fatigu
level. That puts me tin the 120 minute to 150 minute ballpark a da
for cycling, however it's split between the morning ride and th
evening ride

Do I need liquid calories if I'm effectively doing two 60-75 minut
rides? I know I'm not eating enough carbs at the moment, I'm fixin
that but do I really need to faff around with home made sports drinks

I'll probably give it a go just to see if I can detect any difference
just fishing for opinions from others who've been down this road
--
Cheer
Eua

--
EuanB

EuanB wrote:

I picked up a copy of ``Bicycle Medicine'' last week as it seemed to be
the best fit for my needs; namely high milage commuter who's not
adverse to going fast.

Not that far through it however the first section's all about
nutrition. In that section the author states that training for two
plus hours a day are always fighting glycogen depletion and should
consume liquid calories, i.e. a sports drink of some description.

My commute's about 60-75 minutes each way depending on wind, fatigue
level. That puts me tin the 120 minute to 150 minute ballpark a day
for cycling, however it's split between the morning ride and the
evening ride.

Do I need liquid calories if I'm effectively doing two 60-75 minute
rides? I know I'm not eating enough carbs at the moment, I'm fixing
that but do I really need to faff around with home made sports drinks?

I'll probably give it a go just to see if I can detect any difference,
just fishing for opinions from others who've been down this road.
--
Cheers
Euan

--
EuanB

It depends on how much you eat. When I was trg for IM, I needed extra
calories so I supplemented with protein shakes or slim fast just to get
the total calories up. If your energy intake is too low, you should
notice that you are losing weight. Are you losing weight?

If not, it's just a matter of shifting daily energy input to key times -
ensuring you're well fuelled before each commute and ensuring you have a
snack afterwards to help replenish your muscle glycogen.

I commute about 1 hour to uni and about 1 h 05 home on just water.
Anything longer or faster I use sports drink because then I drink more.
Sometimes in the mornings I use sports drink anyway because sometimes I
oversleep and then don't have time for breakfast until I'm at uni!

Tam

On Mon, 23 May 2005 15:24:25 +1000, EuanB
wrote:


I picked up a copy of ``Bicycle Medicine'' last week as it seemed to be
the best fit for my needs; namely high milage commuter who's not
adverse to going fast.

It's not a bad book. My copy's well worn
"food for fitness" is another good one. Amazon's the
only place to get it AFAIK, alas, unless you want to borrow my copy.

Not that far through it however the first section's all about
nutrition. In that section the author states that training for two
plus hours a day are always fighting glycogen depletion and should
consume liquid calories, i.e. a sports drink of some description.

My commute's about 60-75 minutes each way depending on wind, fatigue
level. That puts me tin the 120 minute to 150 minute ballpark a day
for cycling, however it's split between the morning ride and the
evening ride.

Depends on how hard you're riding and how much else you're eating, and
if you're eating while riding. Do you feel run down towards the end
of the week? Are you losing weight? Getting headaches or
dizzy spells?

As a general rule of thumb, you can use up your glycogen in 60-90
minutes of riding, and it does take time to resynthesise. You'll know
when you do run out ... big time! any ride longer than an hour I get
my riders to eat on, and encourage them to use a sports drink (Stu ...
you bugger, DRINK!). Bags of snakes are particularly good - they're
mostly glucose.

Do I need liquid calories if I'm effectively doing two 60-75 minute
rides? I know I'm not eating enough carbs at the moment, I'm fixing
that but do I really need to faff around with home made sports drinks?

Probably not, but home made sports drinks are cheap and easy to make,
but again, "it depends".

Given how much you're riding, you'll be pretty fit, why not go for a
dabble in some racing? It's a lot of fun, and adds a while nother
dimension to the relationship you have with your bicycle

Carl Brewer wrote:

On Mon, 23 May 2005 15:24:25 +1000, EuanB
wrote:


I picked up a copy of ``Bicycle Medicine'' last week as it seemed to be
the best fit for my needs; namely high milage commuter who's not
adverse to going fast.

It's not a bad book. My copy's well worn
"food for fitness" is another good one. Amazon's the
only place to get it AFAIK, alas, unless you want to borrow my copy.

snip

Who is that written/ed/published by? I'm sure I've seen it before.

Tam

On Mon, 23 May 2005 16:06:22 +1000, Tamyka Bell
wrote:

Carl Brewer wrote:

On Mon, 23 May 2005 15:24:25 +1000, EuanB
wrote:


I picked up a copy of ``Bicycle Medicine'' last week as it seemed to be
the best fit for my needs; namely high milage commuter who's not
adverse to going fast.

It's not a bad book. My copy's well worn
"food for fitness" is another good one. Amazon's the
only place to get it AFAIK, alas, unless you want to borrow my copy.

snip

Who is that written/ed/published by? I'm sure I've seen it before.

Bicycle Medicine, Arnie Baker
Food for fitness, Chris Carmichael

See :
http://www.aboc.com.au/perl/open.pl?...mended_reading

Got lots to read

"Carl" == Carl Brewer writes:

Carl See :
Carl http://www.aboc.com.au/perl/open.pl?...mended_reading

Mmm, been meaning to get that Zinn book. It's rare I put my bike in to
the shop, would like to become totally self sufficient (well as clos as
one can get).
--
Cheers
Euan

"Carl" == Carl Brewer writes:

Carl On Mon, 23 May 2005 15:24:25 +1000, EuanB
Carl wrote:

I picked up a copy of ``Bicycle Medicine'' last week as it
seemed to be the best fit for my needs; namely high milage
commuter who's not adverse to going fast.

Carl It's not a bad book. My copy's well worn "food for
Carl fitness" is another good one. Amazon's the only place to get
Carl it AFAIK, alas, unless you want to borrow my copy.

Most of my cooking comes out of the AIS books, Survival of the Fittest
and Survival from the fittest. Cheap, easy, tasty and lots of carbs :-)

Carl Depends on how hard you're riding and how much else you're
Carl eating, and if you're eating while riding. Do you feel run
Carl down towards the end of the week? Are you losing weight?
Carl Getting headaches or dizzy spells?

I don't weigh myself so I wouldn't know. I'm definitely losing fat
though. No dizzy spells or headaches but definitely run down Thursday
night / Friday morning. The ``every cell in the body's eating me'' kind
of run down.

Most of the time my heart's in the 140-150 range, a couple of times a
week I'll push it out to 160 - 170. My RHR is 42 and the max I've
recorded in recent years is 180 although I don't know what my true max
HR is.

Mornings I'm a little gentler on myself, tootalling along at about
125-140. I think that's more a function of the fact that I get out of
bed, pull my gear on and ride to work. Recently I've started having a
couple of slices of fruit bread with pineapple and apple jam (Mmmmmmm
:-) ) but that only helps the post ride shakes I sometimes get in a
morning, doesn't seem to do much for energy levels for the morning ride.

Carl As a general rule of thumb, you can use up your glycogen in
Carl 60-90 minutes of riding, and it does take time to
Carl resynthesise. You'll know when you do run out ... big time!

Oh yeah. Been there a couple of times and it's not nice.

Carl Given how much you're riding, you'll be pretty fit, why not go
Carl for a dabble in some racing? It's a lot of fun, and adds a
Carl while nother dimension to the relationship you have with your
Carl bicycle

Fear of divorce? Might be unfounded however SHMBO did tell me about a
fellow gym goer who's leaving her husband 'cause he rides 700 km a
week. A bit of idle gossip or a subtle hint? ;-)

Seriously though I've not engaged in sporting competition for a number
of years 'cause I used to get a bit of the old white line fever thing
going. I'm older and wiser now, maybe I could compete without turning
in to a complete arsehole, maybe not. One way to find out I guess :-)
--
Cheers
Euan

On Mon, 23 May 2005 09:01:15 GMT, eb wrote:

"Carl" == Carl Brewer writes:

Carl On Mon, 23 May 2005 15:24:25 +1000, EuanB
Carl wrote:

I picked up a copy of ``Bicycle Medicine'' last week as it
seemed to be the best fit for my needs; namely high milage
commuter who's not adverse to going fast.

Carl It's not a bad book. My copy's well worn "food for
Carl fitness" is another good one. Amazon's the only place to get
Carl it AFAIK, alas, unless you want to borrow my copy.

Most of my cooking comes out of the AIS books, Survival of the Fittest
and Survival from the fittest. Cheap, easy, tasty and lots of carbs :-)

I still haven't gotten around to getting those books, but by all
reports they're very good indeed.

Carl Depends on how hard you're riding and how much else you're
Carl eating, and if you're eating while riding. Do you feel run
Carl down towards the end of the week? Are you losing weight?
Carl Getting headaches or dizzy spells?

I don't weigh myself so I wouldn't know. I'm definitely losing fat
though. No dizzy spells or headaches but definitely run down Thursday
night / Friday morning. The ``every cell in the body's eating me'' kind
of run down.

That does sound like a good case of glycogen depletion and/or
overtraining.

Most of the time my heart's in the 140-150 range, a couple of times a
week I'll push it out to 160 - 170. My RHR is 42 and the max I've
recorded in recent years is 180 although I don't know what my true max
HR is.

By way of a general rule of thumb (and this is -very- general) if
yuo're doing long rides (60min+) you want to spend most of your
time in what most Australian coaches will call "E1", which for you
will be *around* 120-140bpm. You're spending a lot of time in
E2, which is sometimes known as no mans land, as it's
not high enough to promote adaptation to very high intensity
work, but it's too hard to recover from quickly, and has no
significant benefits from the point of aerobic fitness gains. You'll
burn a lot of energy, and get a bit fitter, but you may be overdoing
it and not getting as much out of your riding as perhaps you
otherwise could. You're also doing time in E3, which is
very hard and rips the glycogen out of your legs like a t-rex
at a sheep station after 10 years of nothing but moths for
dinner. After E3 work you *must* refuel quickly!

HR zones as used by most Australian coaches are calculated
simply from HRmax, and sometimes by VO2max testing (if you
have a lazy $150 or so for the test, but it's not that relevant to
most cyclists except as an interesting exersise). See :

http://www.aboc.com.au/perl/hrcalc.pl

The yanks have millions of different zone names and
descriptions, and some coaches get really bogged down on
the sub ranges etc, but I don't believe that they're worth
getting that anal about, but as a guide to training intensity,
they are valuable and I use them with all my riders.

Mornings I'm a little gentler on myself, tootalling along at about
125-140.

E1, good

I think that's more a function of the fact that I get out of
bed, pull my gear on and ride to work. Recently I've started having a
couple of slices of fruit bread with pineapple and apple jam (Mmmmmmm
:-) ) but that only helps the post ride shakes I sometimes get in a
morning, doesn't seem to do much for energy levels for the morning ride.

When you wake up, your body is already low on blood sugar, as you've
gone for a signifiant number of hours without eating (huh? time spent
not eating?! Nooooo) - and then you're jumping on a bike and riding
what? 1 hour or so at an aerobic intensity where you're probably
burning around 600-900kcal an hour - eat breakfast! Get some
sugar into you! And immediatly after your ride, eat high GI food. You
want to put the glycogen back.

Carl Given how much you're riding, you'll be pretty fit, why not go
Carl for a dabble in some racing? It's a lot of fun, and adds a
Carl while nother dimension to the relationship you have with your
Carl bicycle

Fear of divorce? Might be unfounded however SHMBO did tell me about a
fellow gym goer who's leaving her husband 'cause he rides 700 km a
week. A bit of idle gossip or a subtle hint? ;-)

heh

Have you read the back page of this season's "Ride cycling review"?
My partner wrote it Editorial correction, we're not married, and
the bride that threw the hissy fit wasn't the bride, it was her.

Seriously though I've not engaged in sporting competition for a number
of years 'cause I used to get a bit of the old white line fever thing
going. I'm older and wiser now, maybe I could compete without turning
in to a complete arsehole, maybe not. One way to find out I guess :-)

Give the Hawthorn ITT's a go, they're a good gentle introduction, and
they'd be thrilled to have you along. Then if you like the idea of
racing, you can do crits over summer etc - it's lots of fun and
really good for your legs.

eb wrote:

"Carl" == Carl Brewer writes:

snip
Carl It's not a bad book. My copy's well worn "food for
Carl fitness" is another good one. Amazon's the only place to get
Carl it AFAIK, alas, unless you want to borrow my copy.

Most of my cooking comes out of the AIS books, Survival of the Fittest
and Survival from the fittest. Cheap, easy, tasty and lots of carbs :-)

snip

That's really good of you chef-types. My cooking comes from looking at
what veges are in the fridge, what meat is in the freezer, and whether
I've got pasta or rice in the pantry.

I suffered GI upset after my first race on the weekend, which I've never
had before, and I put it down to not enough solid food in between. It
was pretty unpleasant. The crazy thing is, when I asked the others what
bread-spread was the best for pre and post run, they all picked peanut
butter. Despite the high fat and protein that's supposed to make for
digestive ouchies, it was really popular. And the one time I didn't use
it, I suffered. Anyone else find that weird?

Carl Given how much you're riding, you'll be pretty fit, why not go
Carl for a dabble in some racing? It's a lot of fun, and adds a
Carl while nother dimension to the relationship you have with your
Carl bicycle

Fear of divorce? Might be unfounded however SHMBO did tell me about a
fellow gym goer who's leaving her husband 'cause he rides 700 km a
week. A bit of idle gossip or a subtle hint? ;-)
snip

Why did she want a divorce? She would've been better off asking for a
bicycle! Then they could ride off into the sunset together...

Tam

On Tue, 24 May 2005 11:38:33 +1000, Tamyka Bell
wrote:

eb wrote:

"Carl" == Carl Brewer writes:

snip
Carl It's not a bad book. My copy's well worn "food for
Carl fitness" is another good one. Amazon's the only place to get
Carl it AFAIK, alas, unless you want to borrow my copy.

Most of my cooking comes out of the AIS books, Survival of the Fittest
and Survival from the fittest. Cheap, easy, tasty and lots of carbs :-)

snip

That's really good of you chef-types. My cooking comes from looking at
what veges are in the fridge, what meat is in the freezer, and whether
I've got pasta or rice in the pantry.

likewise, but it's good to have a few extra ideas every now and then.

I suffered GI upset after my first race on the weekend, which I've never
had before, and I put it down to not enough solid food in between. It
was pretty unpleasant. The crazy thing is, when I asked the others what
bread-spread was the best for pre and post run, they all picked peanut
butter. Despite the high fat and protein that's supposed to make for
digestive ouchies, it was really popular. And the one time I didn't use
it, I suffered. Anyone else find that weird?

Not at all, you're used to what you're used to.
Never muck with things on raceday.



Carl Given how much you're riding, you'll be pretty fit, why not go
Carl for a dabble in some racing? It's a lot of fun, and adds a
Carl while nother dimension to the relationship you have with your
Carl bicycle

Fear of divorce? Might be unfounded however SHMBO did tell me about a
fellow gym goer who's leaving her husband 'cause he rides 700 km a
week. A bit of idle gossip or a subtle hint? ;-)
snip

Why did she want a divorce? She would've been better off asking for a
bicycle! Then they could ride off into the sunset together...

gross generalisation : partners don't *get* riding. They think it's a
nice tootle to the park and back, not a 6 hour marathon or a 60 minute
flog-fest with the aim of inflicting as much pain on eachother as
humanly possible. Sorry, I'm a roady It's how we think. Even
recovery rides are frustrating for both people

Tandems may be romantic in movies, but riding with one's partner
sucketh!