Today's reading: Comparisons of danger

On Monday, May 27, 2019 at 12:21:56 AM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/26/2019 8:49 PM, sms wrote:
On 5/26/2019 4:11 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Heavens to Betsy! If he did that they wouldn't be able to built those
brand spanking newÂ* segregated bicycle paths and nobody would ever
again ride a bicycle in his little town.

Because the Columbus Ohio project was so poorly done it is not logical
to conclude anything from the increase in non-fatal crashes. Two-way
bike lanes on a one-way street are an exceptionally bad idea (as our
two-way bike lanes on a two way street).

I'll note we are making a tiny bit of progress. Mr. Scharf has come out
against bi-directional "protected" bike lanes. In that sense, he's
against LAB, Streetsblog, Strong Towns etc. that still promote them.

But even single direction "protected" bike lanes have serious problems
with cyclists suddenly popping into visibility - problems serious enough
to have generated fatalities. So now there are cries that "Protected
bike lanes are not enough! We need protected intersections!"

Here's an example: https://www.ourstreetsmpls.org/protected_intersections

Just keep in mind, Cupertino cyclists will not be safe enough unless you
do this to every intersection along your "protected" bike lanes.

Care to give us your cost estimate for all that construction?

--
- Frank Krygowski

Looked at the video and wondered where the automobile traffic was. All I saw was pedestrians wandering along the streets where automobiles normally would be. In other words - no cars, pedestrians and bicyclists only.

Cheers

On Sun, 26 May 2019 18:06:50 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Sunday, May 26, 2019 at 8:49:56 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 5/26/2019 4:11 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Heavens to Betsy! If he did that they wouldn't be able to built those
brand spanking new segregated bicycle paths and nobody would ever
again ride a bicycle in his little town.

Because the Columbus Ohio project was so poorly done it is not logical
to conclude anything from the increase in non-fatal crashes. Two-way
bike lanes on a one-way street are an exceptionally bad idea (as our
two-way bike lanes on a two way street).

You see Frank it isn't whether cyclists are actually safer just as
long as they perceive themselves to be safer :-)

Actually you're half right. They are safer on a properly designed
separated bicycle path, but the perception of greater safety also helps
to encourage more cycling. In fact, that was likely the problem in
Columbus, cyclists perceived a greater level of safety because they were
unaware of the issues with two-way bicycle lane on a one-way street.

And if they perceive themselves to be safe than they will multiply
like rabbets and he will become famous as the bloke that influenced so
many people to ride bicycles that the car dealers of southern
California all went bankrupt.

And he will be elected again and again and will be able to give up his
gorilla marketing project.

If I actually had a gorilla sic marketing project I would be unable to
give it up based on the $680 per month I receive as an elected official.
This works out to about 29¢ per hour. We have council meetings that
routinely go past 2 a.m.. But of course as you are well aware there is
no guerilla marketing project at all, it's a figment of your imagination.

Do you think we here are stupid? I think you are! YOU are the one that used to brag about his guerrilla marketing. Remember the flashlights you used to promote as bicycle lights? most of those were from your guerrilla marketing sites. Gads!

Cheers

No! No! He perceives that he wasn't a gorilla (I prefer that
nomenclature as it presents the image I perceive of a knuckle dragger
fumbling his way along and as everyone knows the perceived image is
the true one) marketer so obviously he never was. He is a highly
respected politician. (Nose up, belly out) The Mayor! Ooh, such an
important fellow!
--

Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 27 May 2019 07:43:40 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sun, 26 May 2019 19:34:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/26/2019 7:02 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 26 May 2019 11:26:06 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/25/2019 10:34 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 25 May 2019 10:08:31 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:


Much deleted

Everyone finds cycling as dangerous as he or she experiences it so you can stop your long essays. They don't change anything. They only make you look pedant.

Lou, the authors of the paper disagree with you. They point out that
propaganda has falsely convinced people that bicycling is dangerous; and
the result is that vast numbers of people _don't_ experience it. They
discuss this in some detail at the end of their paper.

What propaganda? What "vast numbers of people"? A lot of people don't ride in heavy traffic because it sucks -- or because they're lazy or even because they don't like riding around other cyclists. It's not all about perceived danger. Like I've said before, I have some high mileage friends who gave up riding on some roads just because they were unpleasant and stressful.

I know very few people, if any, who legitimately don't ride because of danger or the supposed danger propaganda. Most of the people who talk to me in the elevator about it being too dangerous to ride have a doughnut in one hand and a double-tall caramel machiato with whipped cream in the other. You could put in an elevated cycling tube from their homes, and they would find some other reason for not riding. People who want to ride typically can find a traffic calmed street or bicycle facility to use -- or some other facility where they feel comfortable.

Some roads I ride are dangerous because the locals are plain vicious -- the PU drivers in rural counties who want to make a point by making close passes on shoulderless country roads with ridiculously high speed limits (50-55mph). Riding lane center makes no difference except in terms of how long the honking lasts. No cycling technique makes a difference. Maybe Atavan or a shotgun would make a difference. It is plain unpleasant, and I totally understand riders staying away.

Truly? Are people in the U.S. actually so vicious? To deliberately
pass very closely when passing bicycles?

It happens. Since I started riding more prominently in the lane (away
from the gutter) it's been rare, but it happens.

I think there are several reasons. Some motorists who honestly don't
know that it's a bad practice. Some motorists who honestly don't know
how wide their car is. (Keep in mind, the standards for passing a U.S.
driver's license test are laughably low.)

More often, there are motorists who can't be bothered to delay
themselves for ten seconds. They try to squeeze by even though other
cars prevent safe passing clearance.

The worst are the type Jay describes, who execute a "punishment pass."
They object to a bicyclists using "their" road, and deliberately scare
the cyclist by passing close, often while roaring the engine, honking
the horn, etc.

Again, for me close passes are a rare event. For edge riders, they're
more common. And apparently in some redneck parts of the country they're
more common.

Admittedly I've not been in the U.S. for a long time but I don't
remember it like that at all.

I even lived in what you refer to as "Red Neck" country for quite a
number of years and I actually found the bulk of the "Red Necks to be
quite polite and very friendly. It wasn't all "tobacco road" either.
One bloke that used to come in the shop owned three off-shore drilling
rigs, another "farmed" something like a hundred acres of cotton and
one was a lawyer... who along with his father had one client, the
Gracie More Estate, or some such name. I asked the boss about this
"Gracie More Estate" and he told me it was a cotton plantation where
they found oil.

It sure must have changed.

I'm sure it varies from place to place. And of course, from person to
person.

I recall riding a quiet country road with a young girl who was visiting
us. She had waist-length hair that was blowing out behind her as she rode.

A pickup truck came by with two yelling yokels. The truck swerved toward
her, and the passenger leaned out and apparently tried to grab her hair.
Fortunately he missed.

In that same area, my only other bicycling friend in town - an engineer
at the same plant where I worked - was riding home from work and was
knocked off his bike by a dog. This was at a house he regularly rode by.
Damage was minor (torn pants and a broken watch band, IIRC) but he went
up to the door to complain. The residents said "That's not our dog" even
though he saw it there all the time.

So he rode home and called the local sheriff. The sheriff told him "If I
was you, I'd get my gun and shoot that dog." My friend was a good shot
(we'd done some shooting together) but he declined.

I was quite happy to leave that area.

BTW, since then some fairly large companies have come into that town.
The population has grown quite a lot, and there are cultural amenities
that we couldn't have dreamed of. There's even a pretty active bike club.

Are you shore that you aren't exaggerating? Certainly there are folks
in every community that are, to use a colloquialism, "a horse's-ass"
but when I lived in the U.S. I found the bulk of the folks I met to be
pretty nice folks. And I was either a Yankee or a G.I. for much of the
time, Both apparently 2nd class citizens :-)

Sure? Shore? For emphasis one might pronounce the former much like the
latter :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 26 May 2019 23:58:59 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/26/2019 8:43 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 26 May 2019 19:34:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/26/2019 7:02 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 26 May 2019 11:26:06 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/25/2019 10:34 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 25 May 2019 10:08:31 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:


Much deleted

Everyone finds cycling as dangerous as he or she experiences it so you can stop your long essays. They don't change anything. They only make you look pedant.

Lou, the authors of the paper disagree with you. They point out that
propaganda has falsely convinced people that bicycling is dangerous; and
the result is that vast numbers of people _don't_ experience it. They
discuss this in some detail at the end of their paper.

What propaganda? What "vast numbers of people"? A lot of people don't ride in heavy traffic because it sucks -- or because they're lazy or even because they don't like riding around other cyclists. It's not all about perceived danger. Like I've said before, I have some high mileage friends who gave up riding on some roads just because they were unpleasant and stressful.

I know very few people, if any, who legitimately don't ride because of danger or the supposed danger propaganda. Most of the people who talk to me in the elevator about it being too dangerous to ride have a doughnut in one hand and a double-tall caramel machiato with whipped cream in the other. You could put in an elevated cycling tube from their homes, and they would find some other reason for not riding. People who want to ride typically can find a traffic calmed street or bicycle facility to use -- or some other facility where they feel comfortable.

Some roads I ride are dangerous because the locals are plain vicious -- the PU drivers in rural counties who want to make a point by making close passes on shoulderless country roads with ridiculously high speed limits (50-55mph). Riding lane center makes no difference except in terms of how long the honking lasts. No cycling technique makes a difference. Maybe Atavan or a shotgun would make a difference. It is plain unpleasant, and I totally understand riders staying away.

Truly? Are people in the U.S. actually so vicious? To deliberately
pass very closely when passing bicycles?

It happens. Since I started riding more prominently in the lane (away
from the gutter) it's been rare, but it happens.

I think there are several reasons. Some motorists who honestly don't
know that it's a bad practice. Some motorists who honestly don't know
how wide their car is. (Keep in mind, the standards for passing a U.S.
driver's license test are laughably low.)

More often, there are motorists who can't be bothered to delay
themselves for ten seconds. They try to squeeze by even though other
cars prevent safe passing clearance.

The worst are the type Jay describes, who execute a "punishment pass."
They object to a bicyclists using "their" road, and deliberately scare
the cyclist by passing close, often while roaring the engine, honking
the horn, etc.

Again, for me close passes are a rare event. For edge riders, they're
more common. And apparently in some redneck parts of the country they're
more common.

Admittedly I've not been in the U.S. for a long time but I don't
remember it like that at all.

I even lived in what you refer to as "Red Neck" country for quite a
number of years and I actually found the bulk of the "Red Necks to be
quite polite and very friendly. It wasn't all "tobacco road" either.
One bloke that used to come in the shop owned three off-shore drilling
rigs, another "farmed" something like a hundred acres of cotton and
one was a lawyer... who along with his father had one client, the
Gracie More Estate, or some such name. I asked the boss about this
"Gracie More Estate" and he told me it was a cotton plantation where
they found oil.

It sure must have changed.

I'm sure it varies from place to place. And of course, from person to
person.

I recall riding a quiet country road with a young girl who was visiting
us. She had waist-length hair that was blowing out behind her as she rode.

A pickup truck came by with two yelling yokels. The truck swerved toward
her, and the passenger leaned out and apparently tried to grab her hair.
Fortunately he missed.

In that same area, my only other bicycling friend in town - an engineer
at the same plant where I worked - was riding home from work and was
knocked off his bike by a dog. This was at a house he regularly rode by.
Damage was minor (torn pants and a broken watch band, IIRC) but he went
up to the door to complain. The residents said "That's not our dog" even
though he saw it there all the time.

So he rode home and called the local sheriff. The sheriff told him "If I
was you, I'd get my gun and shoot that dog." My friend was a good shot
(we'd done some shooting together) but he declined.

I was quite happy to leave that area.

BTW, since then some fairly large companies have come into that town.
The population has grown quite a lot, and there are cultural amenities
that we couldn't have dreamed of. There's even a pretty active bike club.

Are you shore that you aren't exaggerating? Certainly there are folks
in every community that are, to use a colloquialism, "a horse's-ass"
but when I lived in the U.S. I found the bulk of the folks I met to be
pretty nice folks. And I was either a Yankee or a G.I. for much of the
time, Both apparently 2nd class citizens :-)

Oh, the bulk of folks we met there were nice. But compared to where I
grew up and live now, it seemed to have many more jerks, rednecks,
racists, etc. And as a bonus, there were quite a few who were convinced
the Civil War was just on hold for a while.

As for the Civil War, well, my grandfather was born in 1883 so while
he, himself, didn't experience the civil war certainly his parents did
and would have likely told him about conditions during the war, so I
can only assume that blokes living in the South might well have had
the same experience. Certainly if my Grand dad had told me stories
about Sherman marching through New Hampshire I might have somewhat
less than happy thoughts about "them Yankees".

But I lived in the South, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana and
Texas (which isn't really a "Southern" state) and I don't believe that
I ever met anyone who wasn't aware that the Civil War was over and
done with. and yes, I have had people ask me to repeat things as my
"Northern" accent sounded funny to them, but essentially it was not
that different in living in Maine where any "out of state'er" is
considered a foreigner.

When I was first assigned to the Air Base at Bangor, Maine, I had just
gotten back from nearly 10 years in Japan and had no credit rating at
all so bought a house trailer for my wife and I to live in. When I
called a trailer park to see whether there was any space the owner
said he wasn't sure and why didn't I drive out and we'll have a look.

Anyway, I got there and yes there were open spaces and the guy and I
got to chatting and he asked me where I was from and I told him "New
Hampshire" which isn't Maine but close to. He than tells me that he
"doesn't like to rent to those "southern fellows" so he likes to talk
to folks before he agrees to let them into his lot.

That was probably the most blatant example of prejudice that I ever
encountered in the U.S.

Now before someone jumps in let me say that I am a WASP from New
England so perhaps my experiences are different than what others
encounter but all I can say is that is what happened to me.

Oh Yes, I lived in Ohio for a while and was treated all right,
although one guy did try to cheat me on a gun deal :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.

On 5/27/2019 12:33 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, May 27, 2019 at 12:21:56 AM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/26/2019 8:49 PM, sms wrote:
On 5/26/2019 4:11 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Heavens to Betsy! If he did that they wouldn't be able to built those
brand spanking newÂ* segregated bicycle paths and nobody would ever
again ride a bicycle in his little town.

Because the Columbus Ohio project was so poorly done it is not logical
to conclude anything from the increase in non-fatal crashes. Two-way
bike lanes on a one-way street are an exceptionally bad idea (as our
two-way bike lanes on a two way street).

I'll note we are making a tiny bit of progress. Mr. Scharf has come out
against bi-directional "protected" bike lanes. In that sense, he's
against LAB, Streetsblog, Strong Towns etc. that still promote them.

But even single direction "protected" bike lanes have serious problems
with cyclists suddenly popping into visibility - problems serious enough
to have generated fatalities. So now there are cries that "Protected
bike lanes are not enough! We need protected intersections!"

Here's an example: https://www.ourstreetsmpls.org/protected_intersections

Just keep in mind, Cupertino cyclists will not be safe enough unless you
do this to every intersection along your "protected" bike lanes.

Care to give us your cost estimate for all that construction?

--
- Frank Krygowski

Looked at the video and wondered where the automobile traffic was. All I saw was pedestrians wandering along the streets where automobiles normally would be. In other words - no cars, pedestrians and bicyclists only.

While I'm in favor of less car-centric cities, the proposals by these
designers often feature a "watercolor world" in which everyone is
happily moving while human powered. And everyone is young, slim,
"diverse" and good looking.

But it's similar to car commercials. Judging by their advertising
videos, if you buy the right vehicle, everyone around you will look like
a movie star and all competing traffic will disappear from the roads.
Even in Manhattan!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, May 27, 2019 at 7:21:48 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/27/2019 12:33 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, May 27, 2019 at 12:21:56 AM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/26/2019 8:49 PM, sms wrote:
On 5/26/2019 4:11 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Heavens to Betsy! If he did that they wouldn't be able to built those
brand spanking newÂ* segregated bicycle paths and nobody would ever
again ride a bicycle in his little town.

Because the Columbus Ohio project was so poorly done it is not logical
to conclude anything from the increase in non-fatal crashes. Two-way
bike lanes on a one-way street are an exceptionally bad idea (as our
two-way bike lanes on a two way street).

I'll note we are making a tiny bit of progress. Mr. Scharf has come out
against bi-directional "protected" bike lanes. In that sense, he's
against LAB, Streetsblog, Strong Towns etc. that still promote them.

But even single direction "protected" bike lanes have serious problems
with cyclists suddenly popping into visibility - problems serious enough
to have generated fatalities. So now there are cries that "Protected
bike lanes are not enough! We need protected intersections!"

Here's an example: https://www.ourstreetsmpls.org/protected_intersections

Just keep in mind, Cupertino cyclists will not be safe enough unless you
do this to every intersection along your "protected" bike lanes.

Care to give us your cost estimate for all that construction?

--
- Frank Krygowski

Looked at the video and wondered where the automobile traffic was. All I saw was pedestrians wandering along the streets where automobiles normally would be. In other words - no cars, pedestrians and bicyclists only.

While I'm in favor of less car-centric cities, the proposals by these
designers often feature a "watercolor world" in which everyone is
happily moving while human powered. And everyone is young, slim,
"diverse" and good looking.

But it's similar to car commercials. Judging by their advertising
videos, if you buy the right vehicle, everyone around you will look like
a movie star and all competing traffic will disappear from the roads.
Even in Manhattan!

The video showed a "pop-up" model of a theoretically proper protected intersection -- the model being demonstrated during some planning event presumably using event participants. Everyone is riding at half-speed, watching the signs on the pavement -- like doing compulsory figures from the old days of ice skating.

Navigating some of these facilities is its own skill sport. My usual response is to say "f*** that" and jump into to the road and do the vehicular thing. Not that some separated facilities like the local rail-trail conversions aren't a good thing, but the separated facilities through congested traffic areas are a nightmare. Simple on-street bike lanes are much more efficient. Traffic-calming a parallel neighborhood street is a nice option if available, although in high traffic areas, you get motorists ratting-out on those streets, too -- so you need a lot of humps, hardscape, paint, etc. to really calm them much.

-- Jay Beattie

On 5/26/2019 9:59 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

snip

He is a highly respected politician.

While highly respected is true (thank you for that, it means a lot
coming from you), it's also true that I am reviled by those trying to
exploit our city for their own financial gain.

I never really thought of running for office. I was coerced into
running, never believing I had any chance against the moneyed special
interests. My wife pleaded "just don't come in last."

For all the attacks I endured in the campaign, no one ever claimed that
I was a gorilla (or a guerilla). As a child during the Vietnam war I
remember thinking that it was really bad that North Vietnam was using
gorillas to fight.

On Monday, May 27, 2019 at 2:33:29 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 5/26/2019 9:59 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

snip

He is a highly respected politician.

While highly respected is true (thank you for that, it means a lot
coming from you), it's also true that I am reviled by those trying to
exploit our city for their own financial gain.

I never really thought of running for office. I was coerced into
running, never believing I had any chance against the moneyed special
interests. My wife pleaded "just don't come in last."

For all the attacks I endured in the campaign, no one ever claimed that
I was a gorilla (or a guerilla). As a child during the Vietnam war I
remember thinking that it was really bad that North Vietnam was using
gorillas to fight.

Can't you even recognize sarcasm when you see it? I do NOT think that John B. thinks you are a "highly respected politician". I think that he like many of us here firmly believe that you lie through your teeth in order to advance whatever agenda you are currently pushing. Once again you took something totally out of context, trimmed an original post to match what YOU want to believe and then posted it.

s for Guerilla Marketing, again it was YOU who BOASTED on this newsgroup that you did guerilla marketing.

Cheers

On 5/27/2019 2:54 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, May 27, 2019 at 2:33:29 PM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 5/26/2019 9:59 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:

snip

He is a highly respected politician.

While highly respected is true (thank you for that, it means a lot
coming from you), it's also true that I am reviled by those trying to
exploit our city for their own financial gain.

I never really thought of running for office. I was coerced into
running, never believing I had any chance against the moneyed special
interests. My wife pleaded "just don't come in last."

For all the attacks I endured in the campaign, no one ever claimed that
I was a gorilla (or a guerilla). As a child during the Vietnam war I
remember thinking that it was really bad that North Vietnam was using
gorillas to fight.

Can't you even recognize sarcasm when you see it? I do NOT think that John B. thinks you are a "highly respected politician". I think that he like many of us here firmly believe that you lie through your teeth in order to advance whatever agenda you are currently pushing. Once again you took something totally out of context, trimmed an original post to match what YOU want to believe and then posted it.

s for Guerilla Marketing, again it was YOU who BOASTED on this newsgroup that you did guerilla marketing.

Well, perhaps a slight correction is in order. As I recall it, I visited
Scharf's websites (about headlights, bottle cages, coffee systems, etc.)
and found the statement that he used to have at the bottom of each site.
That statement bragged about his guerilla marketing, including
mentioning his posts on various bike forums. (And yes, he used that
phrase, "guerilla marketing.")

I just copied his statement and pasted it here. I suspect he'd prefer
people here would not have found it.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 5/27/2019 1:43 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 26 May 2019 23:58:59 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/26/2019 8:43 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 26 May 2019 19:34:51 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/26/2019 7:02 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 26 May 2019 11:26:06 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/25/2019 10:34 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 25 May 2019 10:08:31 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:


Much deleted

Everyone finds cycling as dangerous as he or she experiences it so you can stop your long essays. They don't change anything. They only make you look pedant.

Lou, the authors of the paper disagree with you. They point out that
propaganda has falsely convinced people that bicycling is dangerous; and
the result is that vast numbers of people _don't_ experience it. They
discuss this in some detail at the end of their paper.

What propaganda? What "vast numbers of people"? A lot of people don't ride in heavy traffic because it sucks -- or because they're lazy or even because they don't like riding around other cyclists. It's not all about perceived danger. Like I've said before, I have some high mileage friends who gave up riding on some roads just because they were unpleasant and stressful.

I know very few people, if any, who legitimately don't ride because of danger or the supposed danger propaganda. Most of the people who talk to me in the elevator about it being too dangerous to ride have a doughnut in one hand and a double-tall caramel machiato with whipped cream in the other. You could put in an elevated cycling tube from their homes, and they would find some other reason for not riding. People who want to ride typically can find a traffic calmed street or bicycle facility to use -- or some other facility where they feel comfortable.

Some roads I ride are dangerous because the locals are plain vicious -- the PU drivers in rural counties who want to make a point by making close passes on shoulderless country roads with ridiculously high speed limits (50-55mph). Riding lane center makes no difference except in terms of how long the honking lasts. No cycling technique makes a difference. Maybe Atavan or a shotgun would make a difference. It is plain unpleasant, and I totally understand riders staying away.

Truly? Are people in the U.S. actually so vicious? To deliberately
pass very closely when passing bicycles?

It happens. Since I started riding more prominently in the lane (away
from the gutter) it's been rare, but it happens.

I think there are several reasons. Some motorists who honestly don't
know that it's a bad practice. Some motorists who honestly don't know
how wide their car is. (Keep in mind, the standards for passing a U.S.
driver's license test are laughably low.)

More often, there are motorists who can't be bothered to delay
themselves for ten seconds. They try to squeeze by even though other
cars prevent safe passing clearance.

The worst are the type Jay describes, who execute a "punishment pass."
They object to a bicyclists using "their" road, and deliberately scare
the cyclist by passing close, often while roaring the engine, honking
the horn, etc.

Again, for me close passes are a rare event. For edge riders, they're
more common. And apparently in some redneck parts of the country they're
more common.

Admittedly I've not been in the U.S. for a long time but I don't
remember it like that at all.

I even lived in what you refer to as "Red Neck" country for quite a
number of years and I actually found the bulk of the "Red Necks to be
quite polite and very friendly. It wasn't all "tobacco road" either.
One bloke that used to come in the shop owned three off-shore drilling
rigs, another "farmed" something like a hundred acres of cotton and
one was a lawyer... who along with his father had one client, the
Gracie More Estate, or some such name. I asked the boss about this
"Gracie More Estate" and he told me it was a cotton plantation where
they found oil.

It sure must have changed.

I'm sure it varies from place to place. And of course, from person to
person.

I recall riding a quiet country road with a young girl who was visiting
us. She had waist-length hair that was blowing out behind her as she rode.

A pickup truck came by with two yelling yokels. The truck swerved toward
her, and the passenger leaned out and apparently tried to grab her hair.
Fortunately he missed.

In that same area, my only other bicycling friend in town - an engineer
at the same plant where I worked - was riding home from work and was
knocked off his bike by a dog. This was at a house he regularly rode by.
Damage was minor (torn pants and a broken watch band, IIRC) but he went
up to the door to complain. The residents said "That's not our dog" even
though he saw it there all the time.

So he rode home and called the local sheriff. The sheriff told him "If I
was you, I'd get my gun and shoot that dog." My friend was a good shot
(we'd done some shooting together) but he declined.

I was quite happy to leave that area.

BTW, since then some fairly large companies have come into that town.
The population has grown quite a lot, and there are cultural amenities
that we couldn't have dreamed of. There's even a pretty active bike club.

Are you shore that you aren't exaggerating? Certainly there are folks
in every community that are, to use a colloquialism, "a horse's-ass"
but when I lived in the U.S. I found the bulk of the folks I met to be
pretty nice folks. And I was either a Yankee or a G.I. for much of the
time, Both apparently 2nd class citizens :-)

Oh, the bulk of folks we met there were nice. But compared to where I
grew up and live now, it seemed to have many more jerks, rednecks,
racists, etc. And as a bonus, there were quite a few who were convinced
the Civil War was just on hold for a while.

As for the Civil War, well, my grandfather was born in 1883 so while
he, himself, didn't experience the civil war certainly his parents did
and would have likely told him about conditions during the war, so I
can only assume that blokes living in the South might well have had
the same experience. Certainly if my Grand dad had told me stories
about Sherman marching through New Hampshire I might have somewhat
less than happy thoughts about "them Yankees".

But I lived in the South, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana and
Texas (which isn't really a "Southern" state) and I don't believe that
I ever met anyone who wasn't aware that the Civil War was over and
done with. and yes, I have had people ask me to repeat things as my
"Northern" accent sounded funny to them, but essentially it was not
that different in living in Maine where any "out of state'er" is
considered a foreigner.

When I was first assigned to the Air Base at Bangor, Maine, I had just
gotten back from nearly 10 years in Japan and had no credit rating at
all so bought a house trailer for my wife and I to live in. When I
called a trailer park to see whether there was any space the owner
said he wasn't sure and why didn't I drive out and we'll have a look.

Anyway, I got there and yes there were open spaces and the guy and I
got to chatting and he asked me where I was from and I told him "New
Hampshire" which isn't Maine but close to. He than tells me that he
"doesn't like to rent to those "southern fellows" so he likes to talk
to folks before he agrees to let them into his lot.

That was probably the most blatant example of prejudice that I ever
encountered in the U.S.

I worked in the southern U.S. for years, first as an engineer, then as a
teacher. I saw far more blatant racial prejudice than I've ever seen
anywhere else.

It certainly wasn't everybody. Most people were very nice. But the ones
who expressed their racism did it much more frequently and openly than
I've ever been used to.

--
- Frank Krygowski