oh oh , did Horner just call out USPS/Disco for doping?

On Aug 16, 11:58 pm, Doug Smith wrote:
Bill C wrote:
On Aug 16, 7:09 pm, Dan Connelly
wrote:
Bill C wrote:
I think there's a good possibility that you are a wife beating scum
based on the national statistics, and my imagination.
I'm not sure about the scum part, but since I've never been married, you probability estimate is optimistic.

Dan

OK that allows for date rape, and other abuse, especially if we use
N.O.W'.s figures.
The point is it's ridiculous, and irresponsible to make actionable
accusations without solid proof. Harley-Davidson is one entity that
I'm incredibly familiar with who has a huge team of lawyers that sue
anyone and everyone to protect their "brand image". They don't lose
many of them. Maybe since Disco is going out they wont bother, but if
they re planning on returning at some point this might be exactly the
right case to serve, and make Chris recant and apologize the way
Schilling backpeddled on steroids when he was under oath in front of
Congress.
Bill C

What's so ridiculous? That someone (Horner) can't say something without
a bunch of people jumping up and down talking lawyerese and thinking
about slander? That someone can't say some **** and have a bunch of
people hold their statements to burdens of proof as dictated by US Laws?
Give me a break, the man said something that makes sense to a lot of
people. I make conjectures all the time about all things in life. I
think most people do. I don't see why I, or anyone else, cannot make
statements based on observations and what we think are reasonable causes
and effects of the observations.

There are a lot of things sick in this world. Doping in cycling isn't
too bad in the scheme of things. Some things jump out at me as being
waay sicker. Say, a company that keeps a huge team of lawyer that sue
anyone and everyone to protect their "brand image." That, in my mind
and probably a lot of other people, is just plain sick. Sicker than
making dubiously slanderous statements with regards to doping in
cycling. I have no idea if you actually support the mentality of a mob
of lawyers; I hope that you don't. The world needs a hell of a lot less
of that kind of thinking.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Horner isn't Joe Blow on the outside. He's in a position as a member
of a small group, at the highest level, where he has knowledge we
don't, and could rightfully be considered, at least, a professional
opinion on it. That changes the status of anything he has to say and
gives it more credibility. Therefore anything he says carries more
weight and is potentially more damaging. TYhere's a responsibility
that goes with being in a select position, and courts have found this
over the years. They hold insiders and experts to different standards
due to their superior knowledge and credibility in their subject.
To answer Ben, that's why it's OK for most of us to blather, and I'm
careful about this due to being an infrequently working official, but
not for insiders to make claims they can't prove, which others will
judge to be credible just based on their position.
Disco, and others can afford to ignore Joe Blow with no damage, not
sure if they will ignore Chris Horner. Lot's of companies wouldn't and
don't when their brand image is at stake.
Bill C

On Aug 16, 1:16 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/20...s_horner_aug07

"You can see the differences," he said. "As a rider it is easily
perceptible, or as a well-educated fan sitting at home. You get to a
climb and everyone has maybe one or two team-mates with him -- that is
doable. You can't have a leader's team getting to the final climb with
five guys on the front, like every year from three years back all the
way back. It is impossible to ride the front with your whole team and
get to the final climb with most of your team still on the front --
and be ready to come back and do it day in and day out."
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visithttp://www.jt10000.com
****************************

I like the way he called Predictor a buncha cheap pikers as he's
renegotiating a contract in a shrinking market into which riders like
Leipheimer have suddenly become available. Back to the Valley of the
Sun race with you...

wrote:
On Aug 16, 1:16 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/20...s_horner_aug07

"You can see the differences," he said. "As a rider it is easily
perceptible, or as a well-educated fan sitting at home. You get to a
climb and everyone has maybe one or two team-mates with him -- that is
doable. You can't have a leader's team getting to the final climb with
five guys on the front, like every year from three years back all the
way back. It is impossible to ride the front with your whole team and
get to the final climb with most of your team still on the front --
and be ready to come back and do it day in and day out."
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visithttp://www.jt10000.com
****************************

I like the way he called Predictor a buncha cheap pikers as he's
renegotiating a contract in a shrinking market into which riders like
Leipheimer have suddenly become available. Back to the Valley of the
Sun race with you...


He may eventually regret saying this, but it seems he was pretty careful
not to mention Discovery/USPS by name so I don't think there's any libel
case to pursue.

On Aug 16, 4:16 pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/20...s_horner_aug07

"You can see the differences," he said. "As a rider it is easily
perceptible, or as a well-educated fan sitting at home. You get to a
climb and everyone has maybe one or two team-mates with him -- that is
doable. You can't have a leader's team getting to the final climb with
five guys on the front, like every year from three years back all the
way back. It is impossible to ride the front with your whole team and
get to the final climb with most of your team still on the front --
and be ready to come back and do it day in and day out."

Seems bitter. The sidebar article reads like a no-major-palmares
Lemond in the making. Any bets on whether he'll take Frankie Andreu's
place in the on the spot race coverage? He definitely likes to talk.

R

On Aug 17, 4:52 pm, RicodJour wrote:

Seems bitter. The sidebar article reads like a no-major-palmares
Lemond in the making. Any bets on whether he'll take Frankie Andreu's
place in the on the spot race coverage? He definitely likes to talk.

R

My thought was that for years Frankie was one of those riders with the
leader. Does that mean he's calling Frankie a doper?
I'd love to hear that discussion.
Bill C

Geraard Spergen wrote:
He may eventually regret saying this, but it seems he was pretty careful
not to mention Discovery/USPS by name so I don't think there's any libel
case to pursue.

That's what I thought as well. After all there were other
teams who often had a fair number of riders in contention
on the last climb. The team in pink comes to mind, that is
when they weren't attacking each other.

On Aug 17, 3:07 pm, Bill C wrote:

My thought was that for years Frankie was one of those riders with the
leader. Does that mean he's calling Frankie a doper?
I'd love to hear that discussion.
Bill C


BAAHAHA. Not quite as good as explaining fixed gear riding to Shaun
Wallace, but you're getting closer.

RicodJour wrote:
Seems bitter. The sidebar article reads like a no-major-palmares
Lemond in the making. Any bets on whether he'll take Frankie Andreu's
place in the on the spot race coverage? He definitely likes to talk.

Bill C. wrote:
My thought was that for years Frankie was one of those riders with the
leader. Does that mean he's calling Frankie a doper?
I'd love to hear that discussion.

Bill, you do know that Frankie confessed, don't you?

As time goes on, there are more and more ex-USPS and ex-Disco riders who
have started talking off-the-record about their experiences on the team. It
seems highly likely that some will step forward on-the-record within the
next year or two. IMHO.

RicodJour wrote:
Seems bitter. The sidebar article reads like a no-major-palmares
Lemond in the making. Any bets on whether he'll take Frankie Andreu's
place in the on the spot race coverage? He definitely likes to talk.

Bill C. wrote:
My thought was that for years Frankie was one of those riders with the
leader. Does that mean he's calling Frankie a doper?
I'd love to hear that discussion.

Bill, you do know that Frankie confessed, don't you?

As time goes on, there are more and more ex-USPS and ex-Disco riders who
have started talking off-the-record about their experiences on the team. It
seems highly likely that some will step forward on-the-record within the
next year or two. IMHO.

Bill C wrote:
On Aug 17, 4:52 pm, RicodJour wrote:
Seems bitter. The sidebar article reads like a no-major-palmares
Lemond in the making. Any bets on whether he'll take Frankie Andreu's
place in the on the spot race coverage? He definitely likes to talk.

R

My thought was that for years Frankie was one of those riders with the
leader. Does that mean he's calling Frankie a doper?
I'd love to hear that discussion.

Pay attention.
http://groups.google.com/group/Tidal...8023f4 9d0ac2