Bolts vs. QR: which has more torque grip?

Anyone using a QR on a fixed gear/track bike/single speed with
horizontal ends? Any problems with such a setup as far as slippage?
I believe I remember Sheldon's site claiming that QR's provide either
as-good or better clamping power as bolts.
Let's assume that the QR's are standard (not cam-type), steel, of good
quality (Shimano or Campy), and are properly tightened. Lets also
assume that the rider is powerful... how about Jan Ullrich?
Most of the 20th century would suggest that QR's should work fine....

/s

A shy person asked:

Anyone using a QR on a fixed gear/track bike/single speed with
horizontal ends?

Yes, tens of thousands of people do this.

Any problems with such a setup as far as slippage?

Slippage problems occur with QRs, bolts or nuts if they are not properly
tightened.

I believe I remember Sheldon's site claiming that QR's provide either
as-good or better clamping power as bolts.
Let's assume that the QR's are standard (not cam-type),

Huh? All standard QRs are cam type. The twist-on skewers are a joke
for use with horizontal ends, no way those would work.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/qr

steel, of good
quality (Shimano or Campy), and are properly tightened. Lets also
assume that the rider is powerful... how about Jan Ullrich?
Most of the 20th century would suggest that QR's should work fine....

It's not actually so important how "powerful" the rider is, more
important is how _heavy_ the rider is.

In addition, the smaller the chainring in front, the greater the tug on
the chain. This is why SS mountain bikes have more trouble with this
than road or track fixies do.

The nature of the frame end material also enters into it. Chrome plated
or titanium frames tend to be slipperier than plain painted steel or
aluminum.

Sheldon "Is That A Wrench In Your Pocket...?" Brown
+------------------------------------------+
| There was a young lady named Bright |
| Whose speed was far faster than light; |
| She set out one day |
| In a relative way |
| And returned on the previous night. |
| -- A.H.R. Buller |
+------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Sheldon mentioned in an off-hand fashion:

Chrome plated or titanium frames tend to be slipperier than plain painted steel or
aluminum.

If I have an issue I have managed to trace to the slipperiness of my
6/4 ti dropouts, i.e., slight motion of the hub in the dropout during
application of my 15 stone to the pedals, what can I do about it
besides tightening QR's?

I am already tightening them about as much as I can.

Thanks,

App

The Great Swami wrote:
A shy person asked:

Anyone using a QR on a fixed gear/track bike/single speed with
horizontal ends?

Yes, tens of thousands of people do this.

I was referring to group members, if anyone had personal experiences.
From reading your site I know that you have a number of bikes set up
this way without much trouble....

Any problems with such a setup as far as slippage?

Slippage problems occur with QRs, bolts or nuts if they are not properly
tightened.

I believe I remember Sheldon's site claiming that QR's provide either
as-good or better clamping power as bolts.
Let's assume that the QR's are standard (not cam-type),

Huh? All standard QRs are cam type. The twist-on skewers are a joke
for use with horizontal ends, no way those would work.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/qr

Yeah, sorry for the imprecision. By 'standard' I meant an enclosed cam
QR. By 'bolts' I mean track nuts.

steel, of good
quality (Shimano or Campy), and are properly tightened. Lets also
assume that the rider is powerful... how about Jan Ullrich?
Most of the 20th century would suggest that QR's should work fine....

It's not actually so important how "powerful" the rider is, more
important is how _heavy_ the rider is.

Okay, well, I'm 212lbs, putting together an mtb SS for racing and/or
very agressive riding (I'm an ex-BMXer). I'll probably be using a
standard 2x1 ratio. I'm thinking that if I blow a rear tire, I can save
a bit of time with a QR. (And besides, who wants to carry a wrench?)
Thing is, I've never seen ANY SS bikes with horizontal drops using a
QR. I don't know if this is popular misconception, or what?

In addition, the smaller the chainring in front, the greater the tug on
the chain. This is why SS mountain bikes have more trouble with this
than road or track fixies do.

Yeah, I would think that loaded tourers with triple chainrings and
climbing cogs would be the ultimate test as slippage goes....

The nature of the frame end material also enters into it. Chrome plated
or titanium frames tend to be slipperier than plain painted steel or
aluminum.

Is 6/4 'harder' than painted steel? I have a track bike with chrome
ends and the axle has stayed put....


Sheldon "Is That A Wrench In Your Pocket...?" Brown
+------------------------------------------+
| There was a young lady named Bright |
| Whose speed was far faster than light; |
| She set out one day |
| In a relative way |
| And returned on the previous night. |
| -- A.H.R. Buller |
+------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

I have both a fixed gear road bike and a single speed 'utility' bike
with 'quick release' skewers.

The reason I set these bikes up this way was for the obviously quick
and easy wheel removal that they allow. However, I made 'Tug Nuts' for
both machines.

Not only do these make chain tensioning easier, they also eliminate the
possibility of slippage.

I am not _sure_ that I need them but I decided that it would be better
to have them than to get out in the dark, in the rain and find out that
I 'wished' that I had them. :-)

Lewis.

**********

A shy person asked:

Anyone using a QR on a fixed gear/track bike/single speed with
horizontal ends?
Any problems with such a setup as far as slippage?

Slippage problems occur with QRs, bolts or nuts if they are not properly
tightened... Lets also
assume that the rider is powerful... how about Jan Ullrich?
Most of the 20th century would suggest that QR's should work fine....

I wrote, in part:

It's not actually so important how "powerful" the rider is, more
important is how _heavy_ the rider is.


Okay, well, I'm 212lbs, putting together an mtb SS for racing and/or
very agressive riding (I'm an ex-BMXer). I'll probably be using a
standard 2x1 ratio.

Actually, the ratio has nothing to do with it, but chainring size does.

22/11 and 44/22 are both 2:1 ratios, but the pull on the chain is twice
as strong with the 22/11.

the smaller the chainring in front, the greater the tug on
the chain. This is why SS mountain bikes have more trouble with this
than road or track fixies do.

Yeah, I would think that loaded tourers with triple chainrings and
climbing cogs would be the ultimate test as slippage goes....

That's true, but you rarely see such bikes with horizontal dropouts anymore.

If you do use a nutted hub, it is very important to lubricate the axle
threads and the interface where the nut presses against the washer.

For extreme cases, you can use two nuts on the right side, if you axle
is long enough. I ran my fixed gear tandem this way before I switched
to a Phil Wood track hub.

Sheldon "Torque Doesn't Enter Into It" Brown
+----------------------------------------------------------+
| When I was in school, I cheated on my metaphysics exam: |
| I looked into the soul of the boy sitting next to me. |
| --Woody Allen |
+----------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com