Quick Links

On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 9:42:10 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 6:06:14 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:

10 speed Connex links are very easy to open, all others I know off are not
intended to be opened. As you noticed one can open those with pliers. The
11 speed KMC quicklink I use can pnly be closed with pliers. You not
supposed to open en ruse them. That is with a reason. Keep 10 and 11 speed
chaons on the bike until they are worn. Cleaning them of the bike is
useless anyway.

I got tired of wrestling with the quick links and bought the pliers (and never looked back). KMC specifies that its 11 speed "MissingLinks" are single use. It's 10sp version is reusable (and I have opened and closed them with no problems). The SRAM "PowerLock" is single use in 10sp. The literature says you have to remove it with a "chain tool" -- and I assume that includes pliers. Anyway, you can probably remove and reinstall a KMC 10 speed.

BTW, what technique do you (or others) use for cleaning chains on the bike? I tried one of the chain cleaner boxes a long time ago, and it just made a huge mess. Now I just hit it with some soap (Simple Green), a brush and then hose it off along with cleaning the rest of the bike.

-- Jay Beattie.

I use 8sp KMC quick-links. They are stated to be reusable but I never remove the chain during its life. When new they can be opened and closed by sliding with your fingers, when in use there is always some invisible grit stopping them sliding and you need the KMC or Park or pliers to open them, though you can close them by partial assembly and then pulling violently on the ends of the chain.

I don't clean my chain, or even oil it. It runs inside a Hebie Chainglider on the factory lube for its entire life. The last one lasted 3600km and change before an unrelated event caused it to be replaced with a new chain; the one before that lasted 4605km before it was thrown out as three-quarters worn. For me, heavy on transmission, whose chains previously lasted around a thousand miles, and lucky to survive that long, the current KMC regime is a huge mileage.

I'm very happy with my zero chain maintenance scheme. The quick link, whatever its original purpose, makes fitting a new chain a snap (heh-heh).

Andre Jute
Relentless rigor -- Gaius Claudius Germanicus

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 16:39:29 -0700, "Mark J."
wrote:

On 6/21/2015 1:42 PM, jbeattie wrote:

I got tired of wrestling with the quick links and bought the pliers (and never looked back). KMC specifies that its 11 speed "MissingLinks" are single use.

It's 10sp version is reusable (and I have opened and closed them with no
problems). The SRAM "PowerLock" is single use in 10sp.

The literature says you have to remove it with a "chain tool" -- and I
assume that includes pliers. Anyway, you can probably remove and
reinstall a KMC 10 speed.

Yes, the KMC 10 S quick-link is hand-removable and reusable, per my
repeated experience. On rare occasions when the chain is very dirty,
hand removal is difficult; a few squirts of thin oil and flexing the
links a bit fixes this. Perhaps that flushes out grit that is binding
the link's "removal" motion.

For the OP, SRAM 8- and 9-speed quick links are hand-removable and
reusable, though see the note above about dirty chains. In contrast,
SRAM 10-speed quick links are advertised - by SRAM - as single-use.

BTW, what technique do you (or others) use for cleaning chains on the bike?

Soak overnight in kerosene/mineral spirits (in a 2-liter soda bottle).
Then soak for an hour or two in a concentrated solution of Simple Green
(degreaser product) and hot water. Agitation optional. Then rinse
briefly in warm water (all in 2-liter soda bottles) - agitation
recommended. Wipe most of the water off with a rag, then hang dry
(don't use the clothes dryer, not even on delicate).

The kerosene cuts the crud, the simple green flushes out most of the
black grit. This scheme is intended to be NON-labor intensive, except
for fishing the chains out of the soda bottles with a spoke end, which
takes only a little practice.

Mark J.

When cleaning chains "on the bike" as the gentleman originally said,
how do you get it into a 2-liter soda bottle ?
--
cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 7:39:30 PM UTC-4, Mark J. wrote:
On 6/21/2015 1:42 PM, jbeattie wrote:

I got tired of wrestling with the quick links and bought the pliers (and never looked back). KMC specifies that its 11 speed "MissingLinks" are single use.

It's 10sp version is reusable (and I have opened and closed them with no
problems). The SRAM "PowerLock" is single use in 10sp.

The literature says you have to remove it with a "chain tool" -- and I
assume that includes pliers. Anyway, you can probably remove and
reinstall a KMC 10 speed.

Yes, the KMC 10 S quick-link is hand-removable and reusable, per my
repeated experience. On rare occasions when the chain is very dirty,
hand removal is difficult; a few squirts of thin oil and flexing the
links a bit fixes this. Perhaps that flushes out grit that is binding
the link's "removal" motion.

For the OP, SRAM 8- and 9-speed quick links are hand-removable and
reusable, though see the note above about dirty chains. In contrast,
SRAM 10-speed quick links are advertised - by SRAM - as single-use.

BTW, what technique do you (or others) use for cleaning chains on the bike?

Soak overnight in kerosene/mineral spirits (in a 2-liter soda bottle).
Then soak for an hour or two in a concentrated solution of Simple Green
(degreaser product) and hot water. Agitation optional. Then rinse
briefly in warm water (all in 2-liter soda bottles) - agitation
recommended. Wipe most of the water off with a rag, then hang dry
(don't use the clothes dryer, not even on delicate).

The kerosene cuts the crud, the simple green flushes out most of the
black grit. This scheme is intended to be NON-labor intensive, except
for fishing the chains out of the soda bottles with a spoke end, which
takes only a little practice.

Mark J.

the kerosene ? why does the kero not "flush out the black grit"?

are you allowing the two washes to settle out then examine the grit left on bottom can ?

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 15:06:12 +0200, Lou Holtman
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 09:55:52 +0100, "Graham"
wrote:


"John B." wrote in message
...

I've been using KMC "quick links" (SRAM calls them Power Links) with 9
speed chains for some years now and have been able to un-link them by
squeezing with my fingers and pressing the links together.

I recently converted a bike to 10 speed and discovered that with a 10
speed link I couldn't fully seat the link by hand and that after I did
seat it (by riding the bike) I couldn't open the link by hand. Of
course, with a pair of "Master Link Pliers", as Park Tools calls them,
there was no problem in opening the link.

In looking over my collection of quick links I find that I have one
set of KMC links that can be assembled by hand - without a chain- and
none of the others, SRAM, KMC, YBN (Chinese make) will fit together by
hand.

Is this typical with a 10 speed chain or is it typical with all quick
links and I was I simply lucky with the 9 speed links? Or some do and
some don't?

I do remember that some companies warn that their links are "one use
only" and if their links lock together then they certainly are.

I also went back and tried the old 9 speed chain again and "for sure"
one can open or close the link by hand with no assistance.
--
cheers,

John B.

I use SRAM 9s on all my bikes and I have not had any problems opening any of them by hand.

Graham.

Nor did I, which makes me wonder whether the 10s speed links aren't
actually different ?

--
cheers,

John B.

10 speed Connex links are very easy to open, all others I know off are not
intended to be opened. As you noticed one can open those with pliers. The
11 speed KMC quicklink I use can pnly be closed with pliers. You not
supposed to open en ruse them. That is with a reason. Keep 10 and 11 speed
chaons on the bike until they are worn. Cleaning them of the bike is
useless anyway.


I'll see if I can get some "Connex" links and try them. thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 13:42:07 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Sunday, June 21, 2015 at 6:06:14 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 09:55:52 +0100, "Graham"
wrote:


"John B." wrote in message
...

I've been using KMC "quick links" (SRAM calls them Power Links) with 9
speed chains for some years now and have been able to un-link them by
squeezing with my fingers and pressing the links together.

I recently converted a bike to 10 speed and discovered that with a 10
speed link I couldn't fully seat the link by hand and that after I did
seat it (by riding the bike) I couldn't open the link by hand. Of
course, with a pair of "Master Link Pliers", as Park Tools calls them,
there was no problem in opening the link.

In looking over my collection of quick links I find that I have one
set of KMC links that can be assembled by hand - without a chain- and
none of the others, SRAM, KMC, YBN (Chinese make) will fit together by
hand.

Is this typical with a 10 speed chain or is it typical with all quick
links and I was I simply lucky with the 9 speed links? Or some do and
some don't?

I do remember that some companies warn that their links are "one use
only" and if their links lock together then they certainly are.

I also went back and tried the old 9 speed chain again and "for sure"
one can open or close the link by hand with no assistance.
--
cheers,

John B.

I use SRAM 9s on all my bikes and I have not had any problems opening any of them by hand.

Graham.

Nor did I, which makes me wonder whether the 10s speed links aren't
actually different ?

--
cheers,

John B.

10 speed Connex links are very easy to open, all others I know off are not
intended to be opened. As you noticed one can open those with pliers. The
11 speed KMC quicklink I use can pnly be closed with pliers. You not
supposed to open en ruse them. That is with a reason. Keep 10 and 11 speed
chaons on the bike until they are worn. Cleaning them of the bike is
useless anyway.

I got tired of wrestling with the quick links and bought the pliers (and never looked back). KMC specifies that its 11 speed "MissingLinks" are single use. It's 10sp version is reusable (and I have opened and closed them with no problems). The SRAM "PowerLock" is single use in 10sp. The literature says you have to remove it with a "chain tool" -- and I assume that includes pliers. Anyway, you can probably remove and reinstall a KMC 10 speed.


Yes, I made a tool quite some time ago, but I was more thinking of
"what happens out on the road 50 K from home"? Although, more
rationally, I can't remember ever breaking a chain 50 K from home :-)

BTW, what technique do you (or others) use for cleaning chains on the bike? I tried one of the chain cleaner boxes a long time ago, and it just made a huge mess. Now I just hit it with some soap (Simple Green), a brush and then hose it off along with cleaning the rest of the bike.

-- Jay Beattie.
--
cheers,

John B.

On 6/21/2015 5:25 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 16:39:29 -0700, "Mark J."
wrote:

On 6/21/2015 1:42 PM, jbeattie wrote:
[snip]
BTW, what technique do you (or others) use for cleaning chains on the bike?

Soak overnight in kerosene/mineral spirits (in a 2-liter soda bottle).[snip]

When cleaning chains "on the bike" as the gentleman originally said,
how do you get it into a 2-liter soda bottle ?

Sorry, I missed "on the bike" - that's the point of a quick link, anyway
- to get the chain /off/ the bike quickly and painlessly.

My experience with on-bike chain-cleaner devices was not terribly
satisfying, but then, I'm fussy. I got one, used it once or twice, and
it's sat in my shop unused ever since.

Mark J.

On 22/06/15 02:25, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 16:39:29 -0700, "Mark J."
wrote:

On 6/21/2015 1:42 PM, jbeattie wrote:

I got tired of wrestling with the quick links and bought the pliers (and never looked back). KMC specifies that its 11 speed "MissingLinks" are single use.

It's 10sp version is reusable (and I have opened and closed them with no
problems). The SRAM "PowerLock" is single use in 10sp.

The literature says you have to remove it with a "chain tool" -- and I
assume that includes pliers. Anyway, you can probably remove and
reinstall a KMC 10 speed.

Yes, the KMC 10 S quick-link is hand-removable and reusable, per my
repeated experience. On rare occasions when the chain is very dirty,
hand removal is difficult; a few squirts of thin oil and flexing the
links a bit fixes this. Perhaps that flushes out grit that is binding
the link's "removal" motion.

For the OP, SRAM 8- and 9-speed quick links are hand-removable and
reusable, though see the note above about dirty chains. In contrast,
SRAM 10-speed quick links are advertised - by SRAM - as single-use.

BTW, what technique do you (or others) use for cleaning chains on the bike?

Soak overnight in kerosene/mineral spirits (in a 2-liter soda bottle).
Then soak for an hour or two in a concentrated solution of Simple Green
(degreaser product) and hot water. Agitation optional. Then rinse
briefly in warm water (all in 2-liter soda bottles) - agitation
recommended. Wipe most of the water off with a rag, then hang dry
(don't use the clothes dryer, not even on delicate).

The kerosene cuts the crud, the simple green flushes out most of the
black grit. This scheme is intended to be NON-labor intensive, except
for fishing the chains out of the soda bottles with a spoke end, which
takes only a little practice.

Mark J.

When cleaning chains "on the bike" as the gentleman originally said,
how do you get it into a 2-liter soda bottle ?

Ride a Brompton?

On 21-06-15 23:50, wrote:
mooooooving away from the consumer circus, cutting out a container with window into spray area,

using an auto disc brake overhaul spray cleaner jetted onto the moving
past chain...with a setup

for a subsequent flush out of cleaner and debris into another
can....solves the problem.


Spray for brake overhaul may contain (or at least used to contain)
hexane as a solvent. I'm not sure what the present situation is. In any
event, it turns out that hexane binds specifically to a protein
(neurofilament) that is essential for nerve function--unexpected but so.
Mechanics who worked a lot on brakes get, or used to get, a condition
called hexane neuropathy, with numbness or loss of feeling in the hands.
So... if the spray contains hexane, wear at least nitrile gloves and
don't get the stuff elsewhere on your skin. Also work outdoors or in a
fume hood.

Ned

On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 11:15:33 +0200, Ned Mantei
wrote:

On 21-06-15 23:50, wrote:
mooooooving away from the consumer circus, cutting out a container with window into spray area,

using an auto disc brake overhaul spray cleaner jetted onto the moving
past chain...with a setup

for a subsequent flush out of cleaner and debris into another
can....solves the problem.


Spray for brake overhaul may contain (or at least used to contain)
hexane as a solvent. I'm not sure what the present situation is. In any
event, it turns out that hexane binds specifically to a protein
(neurofilament) that is essential for nerve function--unexpected but so.
Mechanics who worked a lot on brakes get, or used to get, a condition
called hexane neuropathy, with numbness or loss of feeling in the hands.
So... if the spray contains hexane, wear at least nitrile gloves and
don't get the stuff elsewhere on your skin. Also work outdoors or in a
fume hood.

Ned

I suggest that while Brake Cleaner will certainly clean a chain that
it is over-kill as the chain can be, as someone else mentioned,
cleaned perfectly well with kerosene and Green cleaner. Why use a
sledge hammer when a thumb tack can be pressed in with the tip of a
finger?
--
cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 18:02:02 -0700, "Mark J."
wrote:

On 6/21/2015 5:25 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 16:39:29 -0700, "Mark J."
wrote:

On 6/21/2015 1:42 PM, jbeattie wrote:
[snip]
BTW, what technique do you (or others) use for cleaning chains on the bike?

Soak overnight in kerosene/mineral spirits (in a 2-liter soda bottle).[snip]

When cleaning chains "on the bike" as the gentleman originally said,
how do you get it into a 2-liter soda bottle ?

Sorry, I missed "on the bike" - that's the point of a quick link, anyway
- to get the chain /off/ the bike quickly and painlessly.


That was my original assumption but after reading some of the replies,
and some of the manufacturer's pubs, it appears that many of the 10,
and probably 11, speed "quick links" are primarily designed to
permanently join the chain. I suspect that the reason may be that the
alignment of a pressed in pin may well be much more critical with the
narrower chains.

My experience with on-bike chain-cleaner devices was not terribly
satisfying, but then, I'm fussy. I got one, used it once or twice, and
it's sat in my shop unused ever since.

Mark J.

Well, I guess I saved some money. I saw one in a bike shop, checked
the price and didn't buy it :-)
--
cheers,

John B.