Campagnolo Weak Return Springs?

I am assembling a "retro ride" using downtube shifters and standard brake
levers. However, the brakes (Campy Veloce dual pivot) do not want to
release. I have to push the brake lever in the opposite direction (away
from the bars) to get the brake calipers to clear the rims. This happens on
both the front and the back.

I am guessing that this is because the return spring on the calipers is
weak, and that with ergo levers this is not an issue due to the "helper"
spring in the levers.

My two questions: Am I correct about the weak springs (and an ergo helper
spring)? Will there be stronger springs in other newer Campy brake
calipers, or do I have search for a set of retro Chorus Monoplaner brakes?

Thanks for your input,

Dave

You may want to have a shop take a look at your setup. I'm running a
set of older Cobalto single pivot brakes (basically Nuovo Record with a
blue stone) with my Campy Record ergo levers and have NO problems.
Since your Veloce dual pivots are newer than what I have, it sounds
like your brakes are set up incorrectly.

I don't know about your brake model but this can easily happen with
some brakes if you overtighten the center bolt.

On the other hand some modern brake systems depend upon return springs
within the brake lever itself which lightens up and simplifies the
caliper spring design. If you are using an old-fashioned lever with a
newfangled caliper based on this design, you may see exactly the
problem you are describing.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

On 29 Aug 2005 15:20:54 -0700, "bfd" wrote:

You may want to have a shop take a look at your setup. I'm running a
set of older Cobalto single pivot brakes (basically Nuovo Record with a
blue stone) with my Campy Record ergo levers and have NO problems.
Since your Veloce dual pivots are newer than what I have, it sounds
like your brakes are set up incorrectly.

Cable housing problems perhaps? Did the OP install new cables?


Jasper

I am assembling a "retro ride" using downtube shifters and standard
brake levers. However, the brakes (Campy Veloce dual pivot) do not want
to release. I have to push the brake lever in the opposite direction
(away from the bars) to get the brake calipers to clear the rims. This
happens on both the front and the back.
I am guessing that this is because the return spring on the calipers is
weak, and that with ergo levers this is not an issue due to the "helper"
spring in the levers.
My two questions: Am I correct about the weak springs (and an ergo
helper spring)? Will there be stronger springs in other newer Campy
brake calipers, or do I have search for a set of retro Chorus Monoplaner
brakes?
Thanks for your input,
Dave
======================================
Hi Dave,
I have Campy Veloce Calipers on one of my Bikes, a Bianchi Campione.

I have no idea if you are using a good, or new caliper, but I assume you
are.

Did you assemble these yourself? Did you find any binding of the Cable
within the housing? Using correct length runs, which are not too short,
yet not too long either? The Cables themselves must be able to slide
within their housings like butter.

The Veloce Ergos I'm using surprisingly have very little spring tension.
By holding the caliper in with my fingers, there's very little spring
tension on my Ergos. Just enough to barely return the Ergo Lever to
off.

Doubtful you'd see any improvement using Ergos versus Vintage Levers.

WIth the Cables diconnected, the Calipers by themselves should have
sufficient spring force by themselves, to release themselves from the
rim. If not, and they appear to be hanging, and not releasing
positively, you either have a mounting problem with your particular
frame, or a Caliper issue such as worn out caliper springs, or seized
calipers due to corrosion. Remove the calipers from the frame,
Lubricate all pivot points on the calipers, compress them by hand
repeatedly, and see if this makes an improvement?

These calipers do need to be tightly fastened to the frame, and fork.
They are not supposed to rock at all like you would see on some of the
old single pivot Calipers.. After doing a preliminary centering of the
Calipers on the frame/Fork when installing them, and cableing them up,
they are then adjusted for clearance with the thumbwheel adjustment,
precisely centering of the shoes to rim, with a small Allen Wrench on
one of the Caliper Arms, so that there is an equal amount of clearance
from each shoe to rim. and the Shoe Orbital adjustment needs to be set
for proper contact of the Shoe to the rim. (Not necessarily done in the
order I mention)
Mark

David Peake wrote:
I am assembling a "retro ride" using downtube shifters and standard brake
levers. However, the brakes (Campy Veloce dual pivot) do not want to
release. I have to push the brake lever in the opposite direction (away
from the bars) to get the brake calipers to clear the rims. This happens on
both the front and the back.

I am guessing that this is because the return spring on the calipers is
weak, and that with ergo levers this is not an issue due to the "helper"
spring in the levers.


I haven't seen this with levers w/o springs. I think perhaps the
housing is not seated in the levers. Unwrap it all, tighten the cable
and pull hard on the levers to seat the housing. Ensure the housing is
smooth and free of burrs at the ends. If still, pull the spting loose
from the caliper and bend it up. Also ensure the husing has ferrules on
the lever end and they are not pullling thru the holes in the levers. I
don't think it's a caliper spring issue.

My two questions: Am I correct about the weak springs (and an ergo helper
spring)? Will there be stronger springs in other newer Campy brake
calipers, or do I have search for a set of retro Chorus Monoplaner brakes?

Thanks for your input,

Dave

David Peake wrote:
I am assembling a "retro ride" using downtube shifters and standard brake
levers.

"Standard" brake levers for the last 15 years have built-in return
springs and run the cables under the handlebar tape. I'm guessing that
you're referring to old-fashioned levers where the cables arch out of
the tops of the levers.

Modern so-called "aero" brake levers are functionally vastly superior to
the old-fashioned type, and provide much better braking with any type of
caliper. This is partly because of their reduced cable friction, and
mostly because the internal geometry (pivot location) provides MUCH more
effective braking when you apply the brake from the tops of the hoods.
(No major difference when you brake from the drops however.)

I highly recommend that you invest in a pair of modern levers if you
actually plan to ride the bike much, as opposed to setting it up as a
museum-type display piece.

The excellent Shimano and Tektro/Cane Creek units are quite inexpensive,
and would greatly improve your braking.

However, the brakes (Campy Veloce dual pivot) do not want to
release. I have to push the brake lever in the opposite direction (away
from the bars) to get the brake calipers to clear the rims. This happens on
both the front and the back.

I am guessing that this is because the return spring on the calipers is
weak, and that with ergo levers this is not an issue due to the "helper"
spring in the levers.

My two questions: Am I correct about the weak springs (and an ergo helper
spring)?

Yes. Very careful cable prep may let you get this system to work
however. See: http://sheldonbrown.com/cables

Will there be stronger springs in other newer Campy brake
calipers,

No. Shimano calipers have an adjustment for this, but I'm pretty sure
Campagnolo doesn't.

or do I have search for a set of retro Chorus Monoplaner brakes?

Stay away from those stupid things if you actually want to stop, unless
you have very strong hands. That was one of the most idiotic designs
ever to come out of Vicenza.

Sheldon "New Brakes Are Really Better" Brown
+---------------------------------------------+
| If your bike has drop handlebars, but you |
| rarely or never ride on the drops, it’s a |
| sure sign that your bike is not properly |
| fitted or is not properly adjusted! |
| See: http://sheldonbrown.com/handsup |
+---------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

First, let me say thank you to all of you who responded. This group is
really a tremendous resource. (Its too bad that we all couldn't meet, I
would buy you all a beer!)

However, the "sticking" problem remains. I have fiddled with the cable
tension, the housing length, and the caliper fixing bolts, all to no effect.

What I have noticed is that, when I compress the calipers by hand (in other
words, with the cables detached), they release normally. However, when they
are acuated by the levers, they will release to a certain point and then the
lever impedes the brake from releasing fully.

My guess is that I am going to need new levers. My intermediate step is to
start the installation of the cables from scratch, that is to say, new
cables and housing.

However, is there a way to service the levers so that they will release
fully? Grease, Triflow, etc? The levers that I am referring to are
Campagnolo Record brake levers from the early to mid '90s, nothing terrribly
exotic.

Thank you again,

Dave

In article j04Re.27024$Bc2.24550@trnddc06,
"David Peake" wrote:

First, let me say thank you to all of you who responded. This group is
really a tremendous resource. (Its too bad that we all couldn't meet, I
would buy you all a beer!)

However, the "sticking" problem remains. I have fiddled with the cable
tension, the housing length, and the caliper fixing bolts, all to no effect.

What I have noticed is that, when I compress the calipers by hand (in other
words, with the cables detached), they release normally. However, when they
are acuated by the levers, they will release to a certain point and then the
lever impedes the brake from releasing fully.

Now you know that the calipers are not the source of the
drag.

Does the cable glide through the cable housing? This is a
good place for copious lubrication. Does the cable move
freely through the cable housing end cuts? Does the cable
move freely through the ferrules and ferrule stops? Are
there bends in the cable that drag in the cable housing or
in the ferrules?


My guess is that I am going to need new levers. My intermediate step is to

Have you isolated the problem at the levers? How do the
levers impede the brake return? You might as well ask now
"What do I do if new levers do not solve the problem?" Now
I am curious.

start the installation of the cables from scratch, that is to say, new
cables and housing.

However, is there a way to service the levers so that they will release
fully? Grease, Triflow, etc? The levers that I am referring to are
Campagnolo Record brake levers from the early to mid '90s, nothing terrribly
exotic.

--
Michael Press

Sheldon Brown wrote:
David Peake wrote:
I am assembling a "retro ride" using downtube shifters and standard brake
levers.

"Standard" brake levers for the last 15 years have built-in return
springs and run the cables under the handlebar tape. I'm guessing that
you're referring to old-fashioned levers where the cables arch out of
the tops of the levers.

Modern so-called "aero" brake levers are functionally vastly superior to
the old-fashioned type, and provide much better braking with any type of
caliper. This is partly because of their reduced cable friction, and
mostly because the internal geometry (pivot location) provides MUCH more
effective braking when you apply the brake from the tops of the hoods.
(No major difference when you brake from the drops however.)

I highly recommend that you invest in a pair of modern levers if you
actually plan to ride the bike much, as opposed to setting it up as a
museum-type display piece.

The excellent Shimano and Tektro/Cane Creek units are quite inexpensive,
and would greatly improve your braking.

However, the brakes (Campy Veloce dual pivot) do not want to
release. I have to push the brake lever in the opposite direction (away
from the bars) to get the brake calipers to clear the rims. This happens on
both the front and the back.

I am guessing that this is because the return spring on the calipers is
weak, and that with ergo levers this is not an issue due to the "helper"
spring in the levers.

My two questions: Am I correct about the weak springs (and an ergo helper
spring)?

Yes. Very careful cable prep may let you get this system to work
however. See: http://sheldonbrown.com/cables

Will there be stronger springs in other newer Campy brake
calipers,

No. Shimano calipers have an adjustment for this, but I'm pretty sure
Campagnolo doesn't.

Some Campag calipers have spring increase screws, most do not. Most
modern shimano calpers do not. New 7800 do, but 7700, 6500, 1056, did
not.


or do I have search for a set of retro Chorus Monoplaner brakes?

Stay away from those stupid things if you actually want to stop, unless
you have very strong hands. That was one of the most idiotic designs
ever to come out of Vicenza.

Sheldon "New Brakes Are Really Better" Brown
+---------------------------------------------+
| If your bike has drop handlebars, but you |
| rarely or never ride on the drops, it's a |
| sure sign that your bike is not properly |
| fitted or is not properly adjusted! |
| See: http://sheldonbrown.com/handsup |
+---------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com