Do bicycles and cars mix?

In article , Jym Dyer wrote:

=v= Think this through: What costs more to maintain and repair
after X number of decades of use? Water and sewer lines that
cover a small area, or water and sewer lines that are spread out
over miles and miles and miles?

The ones which cover a small area--- because everything's on top of
everything else.

--
Matthew T. Russotto
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit
of justice is no virtue." But extreme restriction of liberty in pursuit of
a modicum of security is a very expensive vice.

In article , Matthew Russotto wrote:
In article MY0Bb.462009$HS4.3605319@attbi_s01,
Brent P wrote:

Wiring without insulation is *NOT* safe. Wiring not in conduit is *NOT*
safe.

Eh? Most residential interior wiring isn't in conduit, it's Romex.

Not where I'm from. I've only seen the cheap ass romex on shows
like this old house and an occasional home job. Surprised it's allowed
anywhere.

Just a for instance, an insepction of my grandparents house by the
city forced putting the cord to the stairway light inside conduit.
All it was a regular light power cord and it was pluged into an outlet
less than 2 feet away. Nope, had to be in conduit.

The only homes I've ever heard of where the wiring *HAD* to be
redone were do to a design flaw of the initial system. Like cheap
builders of the 1970s using aluminium wire. But at least it was generally
in conduit so failure only ment no power.

Aluminum wire doesn't fail in the wire runs; it fails at the receptacles,
switches, etc.

Which are in boxes if conduit is used.

"Brent P" wrote in message
news:xnpBb.347344$275.1144720@attbi_s53...
In article . net, George
Conklin wrote:

"Brent P" wrote in message
newsvmBb.478810$HS4.3704337@attbi_s01...
In article . net,
George
Conklin wrote:

What is a total replacement? My daughter had a total plumbing
replacement. It was a type of plumbing which was known to fail and
flood
houses.

You didn't say that it was plumbing of inferior quality before, you
just left that out implying it was an age related failure.

Yes, 12 years is too old for much plastic plumbing. It is an
age-related issue. Your knowledge base is very little.

You don't get it. 12 years old is much too young to replace plumbing.
If were made out of proper materials and installed with good workmanship
it would last considerably longer. It was the use of cheap, poor
materials, that is in fact a design flaw.

Your knowledge base is very limited once again. You live in a very
limited world.

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 03:58:45 GMT, (Brent P)
wrote:

In article , DTJ wrote:
On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 15:37:43 GMT, (Brent P) wrote:

Wrong. You have to replace plumbing, wiring and other essentials at that
point.

Wrong. Sure some things here and there might need to be replaced, but I
don't consider a new faucet 'replacing the plumbing'.

Boy I sure hate to sound like I agree with idiot george, but here
goes.

It is true that plumbing, wiring and other systems have a useful life.
That is why plumbing starts to leak. Copper tubing has a life
EXPECTANCY of 30 years. That does not mean it will last that long,
nor does it mean it will magically fail at that point.

Remember he is not only arguing useful life, but also arguing mandated
replacement.

Which is why he is an idiot. I am simply pointing out where his
opinion was derived from, even if the result is completely incorrect.

However, it does fail. The harder the water, the sooner it fails, due
to abrasion. The people putting water recirculation pumps in their
homes are going to need to replace the copper much sooner. The owner
of a supply house I know put in too big of a pump, and had a leak in 6
months with type L tubing! Even a normal pump will wear the tube
sooner than just normal pressure.

What percentage of homes need replacement by 30? by 40? by 50?
Because if what you say is true, I'm having some really good luck.

Every home. The difference in what I am saying and what he is, is
that your home will most likely have some plumbing leaks. You will
then fix the leak. The leak will be in areas that have more stress on
them, like joints.

He is saying that you have to replace the entire structure of the home
at some magical date. Not.

Wiring does get old, and the covering flakes off or hardens, then when
you change a fixture, you have a short. If you do what I did and have
the builder use conduit instead of crappy romex, you can then rewire
yourself.

Conduit is required where I am at. And decent wire usually won't have
a problem unless it's right by a fixture was very well used... in my
experience anyway. I've never heard of wiring being totally redone
for the sake of mere age if it was decent to begin with. Like you say
one fixture, yeah sure.

Heating systems and air conditioning systems can need replacement too.
Hot water heat or steam boilers wear out, as do the pipes. Duct work
probably lasts too long to talk about.

Wasn't evening being discussed. Of course the furnances and AC compressors
wear out.

So, what you and I consider repairs, george has been sold on as total
replacement by an insurance company that saw a sucker and took
advantage.

You and I, we would tell them to **** off and go find a reputable
company.

Exactly. And given the plumbing cost he mentioned, he got sold
a flamshooter.

Yep.

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 14:00:57 GMT, "George Conklin"
wrote:

Wiring without insulation is *NOT* safe.

Knob wiring had insulation, you fool.

Not always, fool.

"Matthew Russotto" wrote in message
...
In article MY0Bb.462009$HS4.3605319@attbi_s01,
Brent P wrote:

Wiring without insulation is *NOT* safe. Wiring not in conduit is *NOT*
safe.

Eh? Most residential interior wiring isn't in conduit, it's Romex.

I've also seen wiring done with cloth insulation and no conduit or
outer sheathing, but only in a historic building (yes, it was even being
used).

The only homes I've ever heard of where the wiring *HAD* to be
redone were do to a design flaw of the initial system. Like cheap
builders of the 1970s using aluminium wire. But at least it was generally
in conduit so failure only ment no power.

Aluminum wire doesn't fail in the wire runs; it fails at the receptacles,
switches, etc.
--
Matthew T. Russotto

Especially in those receptacles marked as dual purpose copper and Al.
Even the aluminium wire used in feeds to the main fuse box are problematic.
They have to have the connection tightened or they tend to overheat. I had
one underground one burn out and drop a leg. You should have seen the mess
when they dug it up.

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:58:15 GMT, Brandon Sommerville
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 03:58:45 GMT, (Brent P)
wrote:

Conduit is required where I am at. And decent wire usually won't have
a problem unless it's right by a fixture was very well used... in my
experience anyway. I've never heard of wiring being totally redone
for the sake of mere age if it was decent to begin with. Like you say
one fixture, yeah sure.

Our home is probably about 120 yrs old and we had to rewire the
upstairs when we moved in. It was still the original knob and tube.

Thanks for the correction, I think I called it knob and post.

The main floor had already been done years ago.

"Daniel J Stern" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 9 Dec 2003, Brent P wrote:

Wiring without insulation is *NOT* safe. Uncovered wire, means bare
metal to me.

"Uncovered" is not the same as "without insulation".

http://www.webcom.com/~malin/knob.html

[...]Often, older knob and tube wiring was dipped in solder prior to being
wrapped with insulation and consequently, some of it has a silver
appearance when the insulation is removed. This should not be mistaken for
aluminum wiring [...]

DS


With joints soldered, they were far more secure than using wire nuts.

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 16:12:05 GMT, (Brent P)
wrote:

In article . net, George Conklin wrote:

What is a total replacement? My daughter had a total plumbing
replacement. It was a type of plumbing which was known to fail and flood
houses.

You didn't say that it was plumbing of inferior quality before, you
just left that out implying it was an age related failure.

Yes, probably quest tubing, that polybutelene ****. Last I heard the
lawsuits were in the half a trillion dollar range before the company
declared bankruptcy.

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 18:53:33 GMT, "George Conklin"
wrote:

You didn't say that it was plumbing of inferior quality before, you
just left that out implying it was an age related failure.

Yes, 12 years is too old for much plastic plumbing. It is an
age-related issue. Your knowledge base is very little.

Sorry moron, but PVC drain lines will outlast everything but cast
iron.

Your knowledge base doesn't exist.