|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#71
|
|||
|
|||
Motorist drives along pavement
Alan Braggins wrote:
David Martin wrote: UTAPLC. If cycling on footpaths is dangerous, then how can learning to ride on a footpath be learning to ride safely? Is there any evidence that cycling on footpaths at walking pace and stopping at every minor junction and driveway is dangerous? There's two problems with this question. Firstly, your conditions are poorly specified. Do you mean stop, or do you mean stop, check for traffic, and proceed if safe to do so? Do you mean stop even when you have right of way? What is your definition of walking pace? - I can cycle comfortably at the walking pace of most fit adults, but I once knew a lady who took over ten minutes to walk the same number of yards, bless her; I suspect not many cyclists could cycle that slowly. Conversely, there's one lady I know who sets off at a pace that leaves most people breathless. Secondly, what is your definition of 'dangerous'? Is there a threshhold value? Is there a comparator? - and if you go with a comparator, how can you be sure you're not comparing apples and oranges? There /is/ a lot of evidence that cycling on the footpaths is more dangerous than cycling on the road. I'm not aware of any that attempted to subdivide various styles of riding on the footpath, which is what you seem to be asking. R. |
Ads |
#72
|
|||
|
|||
Motorist drives along pavement
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:30:03 +0000, Matt B wrote:
If anyone is seriously injured the scene is closed and treated as a potential crime scene (which, of course it is). The road will be closed for hours whilst every stone is turned. Every stone is turned? A dear, dear friend of mine was run over and left dead, by a coward in a Range Rover who simply drove off. And this in central London, the area on earth most covered by CCTV cameras. Driver was never tracked down. I'll bet a pound to a penny if he was a terrorist suspect the number plate could have been tracked from here to Timbuktu. |
#73
|
|||
|
|||
Motorist drives along pavement
John Hearns wrote:
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 17:30:03 +0000, Matt B wrote: If anyone is seriously injured the scene is closed and treated as a potential crime scene (which, of course it is). The road will be closed for hours whilst every stone is turned. Every stone is turned? A dear, dear friend of mine was run over and left dead, by a coward in a Range Rover who simply drove off. And this in central London, the area on earth most covered by CCTV cameras. Driver was never tracked down. I'll bet a pound to a penny if he was a terrorist suspect the number plate could have been tracked from here to Timbuktu. Have you a news reference for that? Searching around it seems the Police usually consult all available CCTV footage for serious hit and runs. -- Matt B |
#74
|
|||
|
|||
Motorist drives along pavement
In article , )
wrote: I don't see why all footpaths are not turned into cycle paths. Because bicycles are vehicles and thus belong on the road. Allow pavement cycling and soon the Great Unwashed will decide that cyclists should not be on the roads at all, and where would we be then, eh? -- Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/ If you want a bicycle, buy a bicycle. If you want something that folds, buy a deckchair. |
#75
|
|||
|
|||
Motorist drives along pavement
In article , Richard wrote:
Alan Braggins wrote: David Martin wrote: UTAPLC. If cycling on footpaths is dangerous, then how can learning to ride on a footpath be learning to ride safely? Is there any evidence that cycling on footpaths at walking pace and stopping at every minor junction and driveway is dangerous? There's two problems with this question. Firstly, your conditions are poorly specified. Do you mean stop, or do you mean stop, check for traffic, and proceed if safe to do so? The latter, obviously, since stopping and then proceeding, without checking, under the wheels of a car would be silly. Do you mean stop even when you have right of way? Yes. In theory pedestrians have right of way (to the extent such a thing exists) when crossing side roads, but it isn't safe to rely on that. What is your definition of walking pace? - I can cycle comfortably at the walking pace of most fit adults , but I once knew a lady who took over ten minutes to walk the same number of yards, bless her; I suspect not many cyclists could cycle that slowly. And I suspect she was unlikely to be doing so while supervising a small child learning to ride which was the context of the question. I doubt your comfortable cycling pace is as slow as a small child's either. I suspect actually paying attention to the relevent context answers the rest of your questions too. |
#76
|
|||
|
|||
Motorist drives along pavement
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:41:21 +0000, Dave Larrington wrote:
In article , ) wrote: I don't see why all footpaths are not turned into cycle paths. Because bicycles are vehicles and thus belong on the road. Allow pavement cycling and soon the Great Unwashed will decide that cyclists should not be on the roads at all, and where would we be then, eh? Wot 'e said. And that's another reason for being against official 'cycling allowed on this pavement' besides them being useless and dangerous. |
#77
|
|||
|
|||
Motorist drives along pavement
Alan Braggins wrote:
UTAPLC. If cycling on footpaths is dangerous, then how can learning to ride on a footpath be learning to ride safely? Is there any evidence that cycling on footpaths at walking pace and stopping at every minor junction and driveway is dangerous? There's two problems with this question. Firstly, your conditions are poorly specified. Do you mean stop, or do you mean stop, check for traffic, and proceed if safe to do so? The latter, obviously, since stopping and then proceeding, without checking, under the wheels of a car would be silly. Quite - but if the end result is to look/assess/proceed if safe, what about those that do that without actually stopping? There are many junctions where the sightlines are such that it is perfectly possible to slow, then look/assess/proceed if safe. But your question, as originally phrased, excludes them from the analysis. Do you mean stop even when you have right of way? Yes. In theory pedestrians have right of way (to the extent such a thing exists) when crossing side roads, but it isn't safe to rely on that. Why, then, are learner car drivers not taught to stop at every crossing, even if they have right of way? Is there any evidence that driving on roads and stopping at every minor junction and driveway, regardless of priorities, is dangerous? What is your definition of walking pace? - I can cycle comfortably at the walking pace of most fit adults , but I once knew a lady who took over ten minutes to walk the same number of yards, bless her; I suspect not many cyclists could cycle that slowly. And I suspect she was unlikely to be doing so while supervising a small child learning to ride which was the context of the question. I doubt your comfortable cycling pace is as slow as a small child's either. The point is that children learning to cycle are likely to be moving at speeds varying from very slow walking pace, if they have stabilisers, to a brisk adult trotting pace. In that quite large range, there are all sorts of variables changing relating to the chance of accident and injury, so you asking whether cycling "at walking pace" is dangerous is wrapping too many variables together. I suspect actually paying attention to the relevent context answers the rest of your questions too. No, it doesn't. You asked, Is there any evidence that cycling on footpaths at walking pace and stopping at every minor junction and driveway is dangerous? Again, I ask, dangerous compared to what? R. |
#78
|
|||
|
|||
Motorist drives along pavement
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:23:10 +0000, Matt B wrote:
Have you a news reference for that? Searching around it seems the Police usually consult all available CCTV footage for serious hit and runs. Yes. But it still makes me so sad and angry that I'd rather it wasn't pawed over again here. It was discussed at the time. |
#79
|
|||
|
|||
Motorist drives along pavement
p.k. wrote:
Matt B wrote: OTOH, if all attempts to find evidence fail, what would /you/ like to happen? A kangaroo court? A lynching? He probably would, yes. It was a driver therefore he must be guilty, Ignore hansen, he is a touch gruff and has an axe to grind, but far too well informed to actually say anything you (MattB) can make a coherent statement about. I fixed your post for you. -- Ambrose |
#80
|
|||
|
|||
Motorist drives along pavement
spindrift wrote:
"Tarring all motorists with the same brush invites people to dismiss your point out of hand. " "in a recent survey of more than 1,500 UK drivers by Direct Line car insurance, 94 per cent of motorists still admitted to speeding, with a third (33 per cent) of young drivers (18-29 year-olds) admitting to doing so regularly." Snip and how does that tally with the point at hand "Motorists intimidate, kill and cripple cyclists and get away with it" & "Tarring all motorists with the same brush invites people to dismiss your point out of hand. " pk |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
fined for cycling on the pavement | Ben Fitzgerald | UK | 163 | November 15th 05 10:05 AM |
Critical Mass causes Sacramento Motorist to drive off road | Ifoundmore | Social Issues | 2 | July 18th 05 04:18 PM |
Road tire life span | cheg | Techniques | 77 | June 25th 04 06:44 AM |
Shared pavement cycle paths | Allan | UK | 30 | June 17th 04 11:12 PM |