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Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
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JJP&E Through Axle Conversion Kit
Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 19:46:16 UTC+2 schreef jbeattie:
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 9:20:35 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote: Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 18:01:23 UTC+2 schreef : On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 8:00:31 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:53:30 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:07:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: This is a cool product: https://theradavist.com/2020/06/conv...nversion-kits/ I got a 2016 Norco Search 105 gravel bike on super close-out sale from Western Bikeworks back in 2017 as a quick replacement for my broken commuter frame, and it came with 15X100 front through axles and crappy OE wheels. Meanwhile, the market moved to 12mm, so I couldn't swap-in the HED wheels on my more recent Synapse -- and my son just sent me some Roval C38s to replace the OE wheels on the Norco. The Rovals have DT350 hubs and 12mm front through axle. So to avoid buying end-caps or a whole new axle bearing unit (to convert a 12mm HED Ardennes to a 15mm through axle), I got one of these kits. Sweet. Install was a little more labored than the YouTube video because I had to clean up the threads so I could thread-in the insert from the outside of the fork. Otherwise, easy-peasy. I now have a 12mm through axle Search. I can easily convert the old 15mm front hub to a 12mm with a simple sleeve. The hub felt fine, and I'll use that for my fat tire wheel set. The rear hub felt rough, so I pulled off the free hub body. It is some no-brand hub made by Joytec or Novatec or ChiTek -- probably some tec, with a simple 4-pawl free hub body with two 6902 bearings and two more in the hub shell. The hub bearings felt great, but the free hub was really rough, so I knocked those out with a 1/2" copper pipe stub with a cap I had soldered on the end from an old plumbing project. It was the perfect tool. Plumbing meets bike repair. Bearings in the mail. That wheel is otherwise disposable with a cheap rim with ragged spoke holes that zip through the cheesy aluminum nipples -- but it will be good for a second set. It is amazing that relatively expensive bikes now come with junky wheels suitable only for holding-up the bike on the showroom floor. -- Jay Beattie. Tell me if you can feel any difference at all between the 40's and 50 aero wheels. I have a set of Campy cyclocross wheels that are 38 mm deep and my top speed with those and the 50 mm aero carbon wheels is exactly the same. I have this idea that just about any rim deeper than about 24 mm would give you exactly the same performance. Hambini keeps saying that you have to have 50 mm and 23 mm front tire but I think that is windtunnel and not practical information. Well, the C38 are 38mm and the deepest rims I own, so I wouldn't know -- except that I rode some 58mm Zipp 404s on a Roubaix in Utah. What I noticed with those was cross winds. It was unpleasant, particularly when descending fast. There were some "oh sh**" moments coming down one of the canyons on a windy day. I went for a short ride on the Norco and didn't feel any faster, probably because I was inhaling thick smoke. Nobody was out riding. A very post-apocalyptic vibe. I did notice that the Norco has slow steering compared to the Emonda, and the front end was a little too plush because I underinflated my tire. A 21mm internal width rim also rides pretty plush. No seal squeaking like on the OE wheels and no disc drag. It is a gravel bike, so I'm not really expecting it to feel terribly racy. I did a whopping 15 miles with maybe 1700 feet of climbing, rolling around the West Hills near my house. Like Frank, it was really just a glorified run to the hardware store. I wish I had a N95 mask for the smoke, although it would make huffing up hills hard. -- Jay Beattie. Masks while exercising can cause a condition called hypercapnia, or excessive CO2 in your lungs, this can damage your airways. As someone with damaged airways take my word for it that it is not something you should volunteer for. It has been known to cause sudden mental confusion and loss of balance. If you look this up on answers.com they claim it ain't so because the tests were run on people not heavily exercising. As usual, their game is to support the left no matter what. I decided to look to see what I could buy if I sell my Madone and was knocked almost flat. The cost of top end bikes has gone absolutely through the ceiling. I may sell my Madone off and use the results to pay my property taxes. I don't suppose that I'll need more than three bikes to always have a bike ready to go. OK, if you need to sell a bike/frame to pay your property taxes that is a good idea, but please make up your mind it is getting very confusing. Lou His point about top-end bikes is true, though. My son is always telling me about the newest Specialized bikes, including the new super-secret ones that I can't mention, and then he asks me to guess the price for the S-Works founders edition of the bike. The numbers are staggering and just keep going up into the stratosphere -- with big jumps as compared to just four years ago. $7K doesn't get you close to the top. Even the Canyon offerings are up by 20% or more. I don't think manufacturing costs have risen nearly that much -- maybe its tariffs (but I doubt it). I think it is just market elasticity. -- Jay Beattie. I'm not denying that. All Tom's buying, selling, building, rebuilding, swapping is confusing. Lou |
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#12
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JJP&E Through Axle Conversion Kit
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 12:34:55 PM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/13/2020 1:46 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 9:20:35 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote: Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 18:01:23 UTC+2 schreef : On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 8:00:31 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:53:30 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:07:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: This is a cool product: https://theradavist.com/2020/06/conv...nversion-kits/ I got a 2016 Norco Search 105 gravel bike on super close-out sale from Western Bikeworks back in 2017 as a quick replacement for my broken commuter frame, and it came with 15X100 front through axles and crappy OE wheels. Meanwhile, the market moved to 12mm, so I couldn't swap-in the HED wheels on my more recent Synapse -- and my son just sent me some Roval C38s to replace the OE wheels on the Norco. The Rovals have DT350 hubs and 12mm front through axle. So to avoid buying end-caps or a whole new axle bearing unit (to convert a 12mm HED Ardennes to a 15mm through axle), I got one of these kits. Sweet. Install was a little more labored than the YouTube video because I had to clean up the threads so I could thread-in the insert from the outside of the fork. Otherwise, easy-peasy. I now have a 12mm through axle Search. I can easily convert the old 15mm front hub to a 12mm with a simple sleeve. The hub felt fine, and I'll use that for my fat tire wheel set. The rear hub felt rough, so I pulled off the free hub body. It is some no-brand hub made by Joytec or Novatec or ChiTek -- probably some tec, with a simple 4-pawl free hub body with two 6902 bearings and two more in the hub shell. The hub bearings felt great, but the free hub was really rough, so I knocked those out with a 1/2" copper pipe stub with a cap I had soldered on the end from an old plumbing project. It was the perfect tool. Plumbing meets bike repair. Bearings in the mail. That wheel is otherwise disposable with a cheap rim with ragged spoke holes that zip through the cheesy aluminum nipples -- but it will be good for a second set. It is amazing that relatively expensive bikes now come with junky wheels suitable only for holding-up the bike on the showroom floor. -- Jay Beattie. Tell me if you can feel any difference at all between the 40's and 50 aero wheels. I have a set of Campy cyclocross wheels that are 38 mm deep and my top speed with those and the 50 mm aero carbon wheels is exactly the same. I have this idea that just about any rim deeper than about 24 mm would give you exactly the same performance. Hambini keeps saying that you have to have 50 mm and 23 mm front tire but I think that is windtunnel and not practical information. Well, the C38 are 38mm and the deepest rims I own, so I wouldn't know -- except that I rode some 58mm Zipp 404s on a Roubaix in Utah. What I noticed with those was cross winds. It was unpleasant, particularly when descending fast. There were some "oh sh**" moments coming down one of the canyons on a windy day. I went for a short ride on the Norco and didn't feel any faster, probably because I was inhaling thick smoke. Nobody was out riding.. A very post-apocalyptic vibe. I did notice that the Norco has slow steering compared to the Emonda, and the front end was a little too plush because I underinflated my tire. A 21mm internal width rim also rides pretty plush. No seal squeaking like on the OE wheels and no disc drag. It is a gravel bike, so I'm not really expecting it to feel terribly racy. I did a whopping 15 miles with maybe 1700 feet of climbing, rolling around the West Hills near my house. Like Frank, it was really just a glorified run to the hardware store. I wish I had a N95 mask for the smoke, although it would make huffing up hills hard. -- Jay Beattie. Masks while exercising can cause a condition called hypercapnia, or excessive CO2 in your lungs, this can damage your airways. As someone with damaged airways take my word for it that it is not something you should volunteer for. It has been known to cause sudden mental confusion and loss of balance. If you look this up on answers.com they claim it ain't so because the tests were run on people not heavily exercising. As usual, their game is to support the left no matter what. I decided to look to see what I could buy if I sell my Madone and was knocked almost flat. The cost of top end bikes has gone absolutely through the ceiling. I may sell my Madone off and use the results to pay my property taxes. I don't suppose that I'll need more than three bikes to always have a bike ready to go. OK, if you need to sell a bike/frame to pay your property taxes that is a good idea, but please make up your mind it is getting very confusing. Lou His point about top-end bikes is true, though. My son is always telling me about the newest Specialized bikes, including the new super-secret ones that I can't mention, and then he asks me to guess the price for the S-Works founders edition of the bike. The numbers are staggering and just keep going up into the stratosphere -- with big jumps as compared to just four years ago. $7K doesn't get you close to the top. Even the Canyon offerings are up by 20% or more. I don't think manufacturing costs have risen nearly that much -- maybe its tariffs (but I doubt it). I think it is just market elasticity. And that raises a point about diminishing returns. Is a $7000 road bike really twice as good as a $3500 road bike? Is it four times as good as a $1750 road bike? How much does it increase your speed, or your riding comfort, your maximum distance, or anything beyond your bragging rights? One of my earliest biking buddies (back in the early 1970s) said "I can't afford the best car in the world. I can't afford the best stereo system in the world. But I can afford the best bike in the world." Note that his statement wasn't in terms of performance benefits or longevity or anything practical. It was essentially bragging rights and self satisfaction. Of course not. Diminishing returns is one of the constants of the universe. Is a $50 steak twice as good as a $25 steak? Is a $1,000,000 Ferrari twice as good as a $500,000 Jaguar? There exists a continuum of price-value points because different people have different internal values for a dollar. I bought the Emonda because I got a terrific deal on it just before the prices soared through the stratosphere. I happened to get a good deal on a Di2 and wanted to try it. I bought the Madone because it has a loose BB90 bottom bracket so I got a super deal on it and tried one method of repairing it and that only worked partially so the next is the recommendation of Trek - oversized bearings. The manual group was cheap at the time. I cannot see any difference between the Madone and the Colnago ride or speed. So I suppose I will unload the Madone with New DuraAce manual group what with prices in the stratosphere. I picked up the steel Lemond Zurich for peanuts as a frameset and the Di2 group for next to nothing From Team CCC since the team may dissolve unless another sponsor appears. One more wire and the wire covers and the Lemond is ready to go. It is 4 lbs heavier than the Colnago or Trek Emonda. But I can't tell the difference in a climb and it is more stable on a hard descent. |
#13
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JJP&E Through Axle Conversion Kit
On 9/13/2020 12:46 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 9:20:35 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote: Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 18:01:23 UTC+2 schreef : On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 8:00:31 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:53:30 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:07:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: This is a cool product: https://theradavist.com/2020/06/conv...nversion-kits/ I got a 2016 Norco Search 105 gravel bike on super close-out sale from Western Bikeworks back in 2017 as a quick replacement for my broken commuter frame, and it came with 15X100 front through axles and crappy OE wheels. Meanwhile, the market moved to 12mm, so I couldn't swap-in the HED wheels on my more recent Synapse -- and my son just sent me some Roval C38s to replace the OE wheels on the Norco. The Rovals have DT350 hubs and 12mm front through axle. So to avoid buying end-caps or a whole new axle bearing unit (to convert a 12mm HED Ardennes to a 15mm through axle), I got one of these kits. Sweet. Install was a little more labored than the YouTube video because I had to clean up the threads so I could thread-in the insert from the outside of the fork. Otherwise, easy-peasy. I now have a 12mm through axle Search. I can easily convert the old 15mm front hub to a 12mm with a simple sleeve. The hub felt fine, and I'll use that for my fat tire wheel set. The rear hub felt rough, so I pulled off the free hub body. It is some no-brand hub made by Joytec or Novatec or ChiTek -- probably some tec, with a simple 4-pawl free hub body with two 6902 bearings and two more in the hub shell. The hub bearings felt great, but the free hub was really rough, so I knocked those out with a 1/2" copper pipe stub with a cap I had soldered on the end from an old plumbing project. It was the perfect tool. Plumbing meets bike repair. Bearings in the mail. That wheel is otherwise disposable with a cheap rim with ragged spoke holes that zip through the cheesy aluminum nipples -- but it will be good for a second set. It is amazing that relatively expensive bikes now come with junky wheels suitable only for holding-up the bike on the showroom floor. -- Jay Beattie. Tell me if you can feel any difference at all between the 40's and 50 aero wheels. I have a set of Campy cyclocross wheels that are 38 mm deep and my top speed with those and the 50 mm aero carbon wheels is exactly the same. I have this idea that just about any rim deeper than about 24 mm would give you exactly the same performance. Hambini keeps saying that you have to have 50 mm and 23 mm front tire but I think that is windtunnel and not practical information. Well, the C38 are 38mm and the deepest rims I own, so I wouldn't know -- except that I rode some 58mm Zipp 404s on a Roubaix in Utah. What I noticed with those was cross winds. It was unpleasant, particularly when descending fast. There were some "oh sh**" moments coming down one of the canyons on a windy day. I went for a short ride on the Norco and didn't feel any faster, probably because I was inhaling thick smoke. Nobody was out riding. A very post-apocalyptic vibe. I did notice that the Norco has slow steering compared to the Emonda, and the front end was a little too plush because I underinflated my tire. A 21mm internal width rim also rides pretty plush. No seal squeaking like on the OE wheels and no disc drag. It is a gravel bike, so I'm not really expecting it to feel terribly racy. I did a whopping 15 miles with maybe 1700 feet of climbing, rolling around the West Hills near my house. Like Frank, it was really just a glorified run to the hardware store. I wish I had a N95 mask for the smoke, although it would make huffing up hills hard. -- Jay Beattie. Masks while exercising can cause a condition called hypercapnia, or excessive CO2 in your lungs, this can damage your airways. As someone with damaged airways take my word for it that it is not something you should volunteer for. It has been known to cause sudden mental confusion and loss of balance. If you look this up on answers.com they claim it ain't so because the tests were run on people not heavily exercising. As usual, their game is to support the left no matter what. I decided to look to see what I could buy if I sell my Madone and was knocked almost flat. The cost of top end bikes has gone absolutely through the ceiling. I may sell my Madone off and use the results to pay my property taxes. I don't suppose that I'll need more than three bikes to always have a bike ready to go. OK, if you need to sell a bike/frame to pay your property taxes that is a good idea, but please make up your mind it is getting very confusing. Lou His point about top-end bikes is true, though. My son is always telling me about the newest Specialized bikes, including the new super-secret ones that I can't mention, and then he asks me to guess the price for the S-Works founders edition of the bike. The numbers are staggering and just keep going up into the stratosphere -- with big jumps as compared to just four years ago. $7K doesn't get you close to the top. Even the Canyon offerings are up by 20% or more. I don't think manufacturing costs have risen nearly that much -- maybe its tariffs (but I doubt it). I think it is just market elasticity. -- Jay Beattie. or Veblen. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#14
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JJP&E Through Axle Conversion Kit
On 9/13/2020 2:06 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/13/2020 1:46 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 9:20:35 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote: Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 18:01:23 UTC+2 schreef : On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 8:00:31 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:53:30 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:07:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: This is a cool product: https://theradavist.com/2020/06/conv...nversion-kits/ I got a 2016 Norco Search 105 gravel bike on super close-out sale from Western Bikeworks back in 2017 as a quick replacement for my broken commuter frame, and it came with 15X100 front through axles and crappy OE wheels. Meanwhile, the market moved to 12mm, so I couldn't swap-in the HED wheels on my more recent Synapse -- and my son just sent me some Roval C38s to replace the OE wheels on the Norco. The Rovals have DT350 hubs and 12mm front through axle. So to avoid buying end-caps or a whole new axle bearing unit (to convert a 12mm HED Ardennes to a 15mm through axle), I got one of these kits. Sweet. Install was a little more labored than the YouTube video because I had to clean up the threads so I could thread-in the insert from the outside of the fork. Otherwise, easy-peasy. I now have a 12mm through axle Search. I can easily convert the old 15mm front hub to a 12mm with a simple sleeve. The hub felt fine, and I'll use that for my fat tire wheel set. The rear hub felt rough, so I pulled off the free hub body. It is some no-brand hub made by Joytec or Novatec or ChiTek -- probably some tec, with a simple 4-pawl free hub body with two 6902 bearings and two more in the hub shell. The hub bearings felt great, but the free hub was really rough, so I knocked those out with a 1/2" copper pipe stub with a cap I had soldered on the end from an old plumbing project. It was the perfect tool. Plumbing meets bike repair. Bearings in the mail. That wheel is otherwise disposable with a cheap rim with ragged spoke holes that zip through the cheesy aluminum nipples -- but it will be good for a second set. It is amazing that relatively expensive bikes now come with junky wheels suitable only for holding-up the bike on the showroom floor. -- Jay Beattie. Tell me if you can feel any difference at all between the 40's and 50 aero wheels. I have a set of Campy cyclocross wheels that are 38 mm deep and my top speed with those and the 50 mm aero carbon wheels is exactly the same. I have this idea that just about any rim deeper than about 24 mm would give you exactly the same performance. Hambini keeps saying that you have to have 50 mm and 23 mm front tire but I think that is windtunnel and not practical information. Well, the C38 are 38mm and the deepest rims I own, so I wouldn't know -- except that I rode some 58mm Zipp 404s on a Roubaix in Utah. What I noticed with those was cross winds. It was unpleasant, particularly when descending fast. There were some "oh sh**" moments coming down one of the canyons on a windy day. I went for a short ride on the Norco and didn't feel any faster, probably because I was inhaling thick smoke. Nobody was out riding. A very post-apocalyptic vibe. I did notice that the Norco has slow steering compared to the Emonda, and the front end was a little too plush because I underinflated my tire. A 21mm internal width rim also rides pretty plush. No seal squeaking like on the OE wheels and no disc drag. It is a gravel bike, so I'm not really expecting it to feel terribly racy. I did a whopping 15 miles with maybe 1700 feet of climbing, rolling around the West Hills near my house. Like Frank, it was really just a glorified run to the hardware store. I wish I had a N95 mask for the smoke, although it would make huffing up hills hard. -- Jay Beattie. Masks while exercising can cause a condition called hypercapnia, or excessive CO2 in your lungs, this can damage your airways. As someone with damaged airways take my word for it that it is not something you should volunteer for. It has been known to cause sudden mental confusion and loss of balance. If you look this up on answers.com they claim it ain't so because the tests were run on people not heavily exercising. As usual, their game is to support the left no matter what. I decided to look to see what I could buy if I sell my Madone and was knocked almost flat. The cost of top end bikes has gone absolutely through the ceiling. I may sell my Madone off and use the results to pay my property taxes. I don't suppose that I'll need more than three bikes to always have a bike ready to go. OK, if you need to sell a bike/frame to pay your property taxes that is a good idea, but please make up your mind it is getting very confusing. Lou His point about top-end bikes is true, though. My son is always telling me about the newest Specialized bikes, including the new super-secret ones that I can't mention, and then he asks me to guess the price for the S-Works founders edition of the bike. The numbers are staggering and just keep going up into the stratosphere -- with big jumps as compared to just four years ago. $7K doesn't get you close to the top. Even the Canyon offerings are up by 20% or more. I don't think manufacturing costs have risen nearly that much -- maybe its tariffs (but I doubt it). I think it is just market elasticity. And that raises a point about diminishing returns. Is a $7000 road bike really twice as good as a $3500 road bike? Is it four times as good as a $1750 road bike? How much does it increase your speed, or your riding comfort, your maximum distance, or anything beyond your bragging rights? One of my earliest biking buddies (back in the early 1970s) said "I can't afford the best car in the world. I can't afford the best stereo system in the world. But I can afford the best bike in the world." Note that his statement wasn't in terms of performance benefits or longevity or anything practical. It was essentially bragging rights and self satisfaction. Almost no consumer items are a linear progression of price/quality at the top end. Bicycles are not different or special in that regard. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#15
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JJP&E Through Axle Conversion Kit
Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 23:36:22 UTC+2 schreef AMuzi:
On 9/13/2020 2:06 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/13/2020 1:46 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 9:20:35 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote: Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 18:01:23 UTC+2 schreef : On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 8:00:31 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:53:30 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:07:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: This is a cool product: https://theradavist.com/2020/06/conv...nversion-kits/ I got a 2016 Norco Search 105 gravel bike on super close-out sale from Western Bikeworks back in 2017 as a quick replacement for my broken commuter frame, and it came with 15X100 front through axles and crappy OE wheels. Meanwhile, the market moved to 12mm, so I couldn't swap-in the HED wheels on my more recent Synapse -- and my son just sent me some Roval C38s to replace the OE wheels on the Norco. The Rovals have DT350 hubs and 12mm front through axle. So to avoid buying end-caps or a whole new axle bearing unit (to convert a 12mm HED Ardennes to a 15mm through axle), I got one of these kits. Sweet. Install was a little more labored than the YouTube video because I had to clean up the threads so I could thread-in the insert from the outside of the fork. Otherwise, easy-peasy. I now have a 12mm through axle Search. I can easily convert the old 15mm front hub to a 12mm with a simple sleeve. The hub felt fine, and I'll use that for my fat tire wheel set. The rear hub felt rough, so I pulled off the free hub body. It is some no-brand hub made by Joytec or Novatec or ChiTek -- probably some tec, with a simple 4-pawl free hub body with two 6902 bearings and two more in the hub shell. The hub bearings felt great, but the free hub was really rough, so I knocked those out with a 1/2" copper pipe stub with a cap I had soldered on the end from an old plumbing project. It was the perfect tool. Plumbing meets bike repair. Bearings in the mail. That wheel is otherwise disposable with a cheap rim with ragged spoke holes that zip through the cheesy aluminum nipples -- but it will be good for a second set. It is amazing that relatively expensive bikes now come with junky wheels suitable only for holding-up the bike on the showroom floor. -- Jay Beattie. Tell me if you can feel any difference at all between the 40's and 50 aero wheels. I have a set of Campy cyclocross wheels that are 38 mm deep and my top speed with those and the 50 mm aero carbon wheels is exactly the same. I have this idea that just about any rim deeper than about 24 mm would give you exactly the same performance. Hambini keeps saying that you have to have 50 mm and 23 mm front tire but I think that is windtunnel and not practical information. Well, the C38 are 38mm and the deepest rims I own, so I wouldn't know -- except that I rode some 58mm Zipp 404s on a Roubaix in Utah. What I noticed with those was cross winds. It was unpleasant, particularly when descending fast. There were some "oh sh**" moments coming down one of the canyons on a windy day. I went for a short ride on the Norco and didn't feel any faster, probably because I was inhaling thick smoke. Nobody was out riding. A very post-apocalyptic vibe. I did notice that the Norco has slow steering compared to the Emonda, and the front end was a little too plush because I underinflated my tire. A 21mm internal width rim also rides pretty plush. No seal squeaking like on the OE wheels and no disc drag. It is a gravel bike, so I'm not really expecting it to feel terribly racy. I did a whopping 15 miles with maybe 1700 feet of climbing, rolling around the West Hills near my house. Like Frank, it was really just a glorified run to the hardware store. I wish I had a N95 mask for the smoke, although it would make huffing up hills hard. -- Jay Beattie. Masks while exercising can cause a condition called hypercapnia, or excessive CO2 in your lungs, this can damage your airways. As someone with damaged airways take my word for it that it is not something you should volunteer for. It has been known to cause sudden mental confusion and loss of balance. If you look this up on answers.com they claim it ain't so because the tests were run on people not heavily exercising. As usual, their game is to support the left no matter what. I decided to look to see what I could buy if I sell my Madone and was knocked almost flat. The cost of top end bikes has gone absolutely through the ceiling. I may sell my Madone off and use the results to pay my property taxes. I don't suppose that I'll need more than three bikes to always have a bike ready to go. OK, if you need to sell a bike/frame to pay your property taxes that is a good idea, but please make up your mind it is getting very confusing. Lou His point about top-end bikes is true, though. My son is always telling me about the newest Specialized bikes, including the new super-secret ones that I can't mention, and then he asks me to guess the price for the S-Works founders edition of the bike. The numbers are staggering and just keep going up into the stratosphere -- with big jumps as compared to just four years ago. $7K doesn't get you close to the top. Even the Canyon offerings are up by 20% or more. I don't think manufacturing costs have risen nearly that much -- maybe its tariffs (but I doubt it). I think it is just market elasticity. And that raises a point about diminishing returns. Is a $7000 road bike really twice as good as a $3500 road bike? Is it four times as good as a $1750 road bike? How much does it increase your speed, or your riding comfort, your maximum distance, or anything beyond your bragging rights? One of my earliest biking buddies (back in the early 1970s) said "I can't afford the best car in the world. I can't afford the best stereo system in the world. But I can afford the best bike in the world." Note that his statement wasn't in terms of performance benefits or longevity or anything practical. It was essentially bragging rights and self satisfaction. Almost no consumer items are a linear progression of price/quality at the top end. Bicycles are not different or special in that regard. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Right and everyone has his own sweet-spot. Like many other products buying a bicycle is not completely a rational decision. Lou |
#16
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JJP&E Through Axle Conversion Kit
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 2:36:22 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/13/2020 2:06 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/13/2020 1:46 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 9:20:35 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote: Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 18:01:23 UTC+2 schreef : On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 8:00:31 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:53:30 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:07:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: This is a cool product: https://theradavist.com/2020/06/conv...nversion-kits/ I got a 2016 Norco Search 105 gravel bike on super close-out sale from Western Bikeworks back in 2017 as a quick replacement for my broken commuter frame, and it came with 15X100 front through axles and crappy OE wheels. Meanwhile, the market moved to 12mm, so I couldn't swap-in the HED wheels on my more recent Synapse -- and my son just sent me some Roval C38s to replace the OE wheels on the Norco. The Rovals have DT350 hubs and 12mm front through axle. So to avoid buying end-caps or a whole new axle bearing unit (to convert a 12mm HED Ardennes to a 15mm through axle), I got one of these kits. Sweet. Install was a little more labored than the YouTube video because I had to clean up the threads so I could thread-in the insert from the outside of the fork. Otherwise, easy-peasy. I now have a 12mm through axle Search. I can easily convert the old 15mm front hub to a 12mm with a simple sleeve. The hub felt fine, and I'll use that for my fat tire wheel set. The rear hub felt rough, so I pulled off the free hub body. It is some no-brand hub made by Joytec or Novatec or ChiTek -- probably some tec, with a simple 4-pawl free hub body with two 6902 bearings and two more in the hub shell. The hub bearings felt great, but the free hub was really rough, so I knocked those out with a 1/2" copper pipe stub with a cap I had soldered on the end from an old plumbing project. It was the perfect tool. Plumbing meets bike repair. Bearings in the mail. That wheel is otherwise disposable with a cheap rim with ragged spoke holes that zip through the cheesy aluminum nipples -- but it will be good for a second set. It is amazing that relatively expensive bikes now come with junky wheels suitable only for holding-up the bike on the showroom floor. -- Jay Beattie. Tell me if you can feel any difference at all between the 40's and 50 aero wheels. I have a set of Campy cyclocross wheels that are 38 mm deep and my top speed with those and the 50 mm aero carbon wheels is exactly the same. I have this idea that just about any rim deeper than about 24 mm would give you exactly the same performance. Hambini keeps saying that you have to have 50 mm and 23 mm front tire but I think that is windtunnel and not practical information. Well, the C38 are 38mm and the deepest rims I own, so I wouldn't know -- except that I rode some 58mm Zipp 404s on a Roubaix in Utah. What I noticed with those was cross winds. It was unpleasant, particularly when descending fast. There were some "oh sh**" moments coming down one of the canyons on a windy day. I went for a short ride on the Norco and didn't feel any faster, probably because I was inhaling thick smoke. Nobody was out riding. A very post-apocalyptic vibe. I did notice that the Norco has slow steering compared to the Emonda, and the front end was a little too plush because I underinflated my tire. A 21mm internal width rim also rides pretty plush. No seal squeaking like on the OE wheels and no disc drag. It is a gravel bike, so I'm not really expecting it to feel terribly racy. I did a whopping 15 miles with maybe 1700 feet of climbing, rolling around the West Hills near my house. Like Frank, it was really just a glorified run to the hardware store. I wish I had a N95 mask for the smoke, although it would make huffing up hills hard. -- Jay Beattie. Masks while exercising can cause a condition called hypercapnia, or excessive CO2 in your lungs, this can damage your airways. As someone with damaged airways take my word for it that it is not something you should volunteer for. It has been known to cause sudden mental confusion and loss of balance. If you look this up on answers.com they claim it ain't so because the tests were run on people not heavily exercising. As usual, their game is to support the left no matter what. I decided to look to see what I could buy if I sell my Madone and was knocked almost flat. The cost of top end bikes has gone absolutely through the ceiling. I may sell my Madone off and use the results to pay my property taxes. I don't suppose that I'll need more than three bikes to always have a bike ready to go. OK, if you need to sell a bike/frame to pay your property taxes that is a good idea, but please make up your mind it is getting very confusing. Lou His point about top-end bikes is true, though. My son is always telling me about the newest Specialized bikes, including the new super-secret ones that I can't mention, and then he asks me to guess the price for the S-Works founders edition of the bike. The numbers are staggering and just keep going up into the stratosphere -- with big jumps as compared to just four years ago. $7K doesn't get you close to the top. Even the Canyon offerings are up by 20% or more. I don't think manufacturing costs have risen nearly that much -- maybe its tariffs (but I doubt it). I think it is just market elasticity. And that raises a point about diminishing returns. Is a $7000 road bike really twice as good as a $3500 road bike? Is it four times as good as a $1750 road bike? How much does it increase your speed, or your riding comfort, your maximum distance, or anything beyond your bragging rights? One of my earliest biking buddies (back in the early 1970s) said "I can't afford the best car in the world. I can't afford the best stereo system in the world. But I can afford the best bike in the world." Note that his statement wasn't in terms of performance benefits or longevity or anything practical. It was essentially bragging rights and self satisfaction. Almost no consumer items are a linear progression of price/quality at the top end. Bicycles are not different or special in that regard. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 A comedy routine: I was sitting in a Jack-in-te-box drinking a coffee on a long ride. Behind the JintheB there were three parking spots that were well away from the rest of the stores in the mini-mall. There was the unmistakable sound of extreme power and some guy came driving into the parking lot in a Ford GT Shelby. It was one of the original all aluminum body ones without any paint on it. He cross all the way across the parking lot and parked it semi-sideway across two parking spots. There were dozens of parking spots near the stores so it was pretty clear that he was worried about his mega-million dollar car. From the sound of it, it was late enough to have the 427 in it. He got out and walked across the parking lot to some store all the way on the other side of the mini-mall. After he was out of sight, some one of the Hispanic punks driving a very early Honda Civic came racing into the parking lot and drove across and parks next to that Shelby, threw the door open against that aluminum body and left a large dent in the rear fender. And they wonder why America is building a wall. |
#17
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JJP&E Through Axle Conversion Kit
On 9/13/2020 5:27 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 2:36:22 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/13/2020 2:06 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 9/13/2020 1:46 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 9:20:35 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote: Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 18:01:23 UTC+2 schreef : On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 8:00:31 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:53:30 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:07:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: This is a cool product: https://theradavist.com/2020/06/conv...nversion-kits/ I got a 2016 Norco Search 105 gravel bike on super close-out sale from Western Bikeworks back in 2017 as a quick replacement for my broken commuter frame, and it came with 15X100 front through axles and crappy OE wheels. Meanwhile, the market moved to 12mm, so I couldn't swap-in the HED wheels on my more recent Synapse -- and my son just sent me some Roval C38s to replace the OE wheels on the Norco. The Rovals have DT350 hubs and 12mm front through axle. So to avoid buying end-caps or a whole new axle bearing unit (to convert a 12mm HED Ardennes to a 15mm through axle), I got one of these kits. Sweet. Install was a little more labored than the YouTube video because I had to clean up the threads so I could thread-in the insert from the outside of the fork. Otherwise, easy-peasy. I now have a 12mm through axle Search. I can easily convert the old 15mm front hub to a 12mm with a simple sleeve. The hub felt fine, and I'll use that for my fat tire wheel set. The rear hub felt rough, so I pulled off the free hub body. It is some no-brand hub made by Joytec or Novatec or ChiTek -- probably some tec, with a simple 4-pawl free hub body with two 6902 bearings and two more in the hub shell. The hub bearings felt great, but the free hub was really rough, so I knocked those out with a 1/2" copper pipe stub with a cap I had soldered on the end from an old plumbing project. It was the perfect tool. Plumbing meets bike repair. Bearings in the mail. That wheel is otherwise disposable with a cheap rim with ragged spoke holes that zip through the cheesy aluminum nipples -- but it will be good for a second set. It is amazing that relatively expensive bikes now come with junky wheels suitable only for holding-up the bike on the showroom floor. -- Jay Beattie. Tell me if you can feel any difference at all between the 40's and 50 aero wheels. I have a set of Campy cyclocross wheels that are 38 mm deep and my top speed with those and the 50 mm aero carbon wheels is exactly the same. I have this idea that just about any rim deeper than about 24 mm would give you exactly the same performance. Hambini keeps saying that you have to have 50 mm and 23 mm front tire but I think that is windtunnel and not practical information. Well, the C38 are 38mm and the deepest rims I own, so I wouldn't know -- except that I rode some 58mm Zipp 404s on a Roubaix in Utah. What I noticed with those was cross winds. It was unpleasant, particularly when descending fast. There were some "oh sh**" moments coming down one of the canyons on a windy day. I went for a short ride on the Norco and didn't feel any faster, probably because I was inhaling thick smoke. Nobody was out riding. A very post-apocalyptic vibe. I did notice that the Norco has slow steering compared to the Emonda, and the front end was a little too plush because I underinflated my tire. A 21mm internal width rim also rides pretty plush. No seal squeaking like on the OE wheels and no disc drag. It is a gravel bike, so I'm not really expecting it to feel terribly racy. I did a whopping 15 miles with maybe 1700 feet of climbing, rolling around the West Hills near my house. Like Frank, it was really just a glorified run to the hardware store. I wish I had a N95 mask for the smoke, although it would make huffing up hills hard. -- Jay Beattie. Masks while exercising can cause a condition called hypercapnia, or excessive CO2 in your lungs, this can damage your airways. As someone with damaged airways take my word for it that it is not something you should volunteer for. It has been known to cause sudden mental confusion and loss of balance. If you look this up on answers.com they claim it ain't so because the tests were run on people not heavily exercising. As usual, their game is to support the left no matter what. I decided to look to see what I could buy if I sell my Madone and was knocked almost flat. The cost of top end bikes has gone absolutely through the ceiling. I may sell my Madone off and use the results to pay my property taxes. I don't suppose that I'll need more than three bikes to always have a bike ready to go. OK, if you need to sell a bike/frame to pay your property taxes that is a good idea, but please make up your mind it is getting very confusing. Lou His point about top-end bikes is true, though. My son is always telling me about the newest Specialized bikes, including the new super-secret ones that I can't mention, and then he asks me to guess the price for the S-Works founders edition of the bike. The numbers are staggering and just keep going up into the stratosphere -- with big jumps as compared to just four years ago. $7K doesn't get you close to the top. Even the Canyon offerings are up by 20% or more. I don't think manufacturing costs have risen nearly that much -- maybe its tariffs (but I doubt it). I think it is just market elasticity. And that raises a point about diminishing returns. Is a $7000 road bike really twice as good as a $3500 road bike? Is it four times as good as a $1750 road bike? How much does it increase your speed, or your riding comfort, your maximum distance, or anything beyond your bragging rights? One of my earliest biking buddies (back in the early 1970s) said "I can't afford the best car in the world. I can't afford the best stereo system in the world. But I can afford the best bike in the world." Note that his statement wasn't in terms of performance benefits or longevity or anything practical. It was essentially bragging rights and self satisfaction. Almost no consumer items are a linear progression of price/quality at the top end. Bicycles are not different or special in that regard. A comedy routine: I was sitting in a Jack-in-te-box drinking a coffee on a long ride. Behind the JintheB there were three parking spots that were well away from the rest of the stores in the mini-mall. There was the unmistakable sound of extreme power and some guy came driving into the parking lot in a Ford GT Shelby. It was one of the original all aluminum body ones without any paint on it. He cross all the way across the parking lot and parked it semi-sideway across two parking spots. There were dozens of parking spots near the stores so it was pretty clear that he was worried about his mega-million dollar car. From the sound of it, it was late enough to have the 427 in it. He got out and walked across the parking lot to some store all the way on the other side of the mini-mall. After he was out of sight, some one of the Hispanic punks driving a very early Honda Civic came racing into the parking lot and drove across and parks next to that Shelby, threw the door open against tha t aluminum body and left a large dent in the rear fender. And they wonder why America is building a wall. ?? You're positing that jerks of Mexican ancestry are somehow different from jerks of central European ancestry like you or of Italian like me? I think you're missing the point. Don't get me wrong, immigration control is essential to the essence of being a nation at all (ask the American Indians about the lack of it) but this is not that. There are plenty of jerks here in every flavor and effective border control will not change that one bit. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#18
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JJP&E Through Axle Conversion Kit
On 9/13/2020 5:34 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 9/13/2020 12:46 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 9:20:35 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote: Op zondag 13 september 2020 om 18:01:23 UTC+2 schreef : On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 8:00:31 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:53:30 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 2:07:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: This is a cool product: https://theradavist.com/2020/06/conv...nversion-kits/ I got a 2016 Norco Search 105 gravel bike on super close-out sale from Western Bikeworks back in 2017 as a quick replacement for my broken commuter frame, and it came with 15X100 front through axles and crappy OE wheels. Meanwhile, the market moved to 12mm, so I couldn't swap-in the HED wheels on my more recent Synapse -- and my son just sent me some Roval C38s to replace the OE wheels on the Norco. The Rovals have DT350 hubs and 12mm front through axle. So to avoid buying end-caps or a whole new axle bearing unit (to convert a 12mm HED Ardennes to a 15mm through axle), I got one of these kits. Sweet. Install was a little more labored than the YouTube video because I had to clean up the threads so I could thread-in the insert from the outside of the fork. Otherwise, easy-peasy. I now have a 12mm through axle Search. I can easily convert the old 15mm front hub to a 12mm with a simple sleeve. The hub felt fine, and I'll use that for my fat tire wheel set. The rear hub felt rough, so I pulled off the free hub body. It is some no-brand hub made by Joytec or Novatec or ChiTek -- probably some tec, with a simple 4-pawl free hub body with two 6902 bearings and two more in the hub shell. The hub bearings felt great, but the free hub was really rough, so I knocked those out with a 1/2" copper pipe stub with a cap I had soldered on the end from an old plumbing project. It was the perfect tool. Plumbing meets bike repair. Bearings in the mail. That wheel is otherwise disposable with a cheap rim with ragged spoke holes that zip through the cheesy aluminum nipples -- but it will be good for a second set. It is amazing that relatively expensive bikes now come with junky wheels suitable only for holding-up the bike on the showroom floor. -- Jay Beattie. Tell me if you can feel any difference at all between the 40's and 50 aero wheels. I have a set of Campy cyclocross wheels that are 38 mm deep and my top speed with those and the 50 mm aero carbon wheels is exactly the same. I have this idea that just about any rim deeper than about 24 mm would give you exactly the same performance. Hambini keeps saying that you have to have 50 mm and 23 mm front tire but I think that is windtunnel and not practical information. Well, the C38 are 38mm and the deepest rims I own, so I wouldn't know -- except that I rode some 58mm Zipp 404s on a Roubaix in Utah. What I noticed with those was cross winds. It was unpleasant, particularly when descending fast. There were some "oh sh**" moments coming down one of the canyons on a windy day. I went for a short ride on the Norco and didn't feel any faster, probably because I was inhaling thick smoke. Nobody was out riding. A very post-apocalyptic vibe. I did notice that the Norco has slow steering compared to the Emonda, and the front end was a little too plush because I underinflated my tire. A 21mm internal width rim also rides pretty plush. No seal squeaking like on the OE wheels and no disc drag. It is a gravel bike, so I'm not really expecting it to feel terribly racy. I did a whopping 15 miles with maybe 1700 feet of climbing, rolling around the West Hills near my house. Like Frank, it was really just a glorified run to the hardware store. I wish I had a N95 mask for the smoke, although it would make huffing up hills hard. -- Jay Beattie. Masks while exercising can cause a condition called hypercapnia, or excessive CO2 in your lungs, this can damage your airways. As someone with damaged airways take my word for it that it is not something you should volunteer for. It has been known to cause sudden mental confusion and loss of balance. If you look this up on answers.com they claim it ain't so because the tests were run on people not heavily exercising. As usual, their game is to support the left no matter what. I decided to look to see what I could buy if I sell my Madone and was knocked almost flat. The cost of top end bikes has gone absolutely through the ceiling. I may sell my Madone off and use the results to pay my property taxes. I don't suppose that I'll need more than three bikes to always have a bike ready to go. OK, if you need to sell a bike/frame to pay your property taxes that is a good idea, but please make up your mind it is getting very confusing. Lou His point about top-end bikes is true, though.Â* My son is always telling me about the newest Specialized bikes, including the new super-secret ones that I can't mention, and then he asks me to guess the price for the S-Works founders edition of the bike.Â* The numbers are staggering and just keep going up into the stratosphere -- with big jumps as compared to just four years ago. $7K doesn't get you close to the top. Even the Canyon offerings are up by 20% or more. I don't think manufacturing costs have risen nearly that much -- maybe its tariffs (but I doubt it).Â* I think it is just market elasticity. -- Jay Beattie. or Veblen. I'd bet on that. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#19
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JJP&E Through Axle Conversion Kit
On 9/13/2020 3:34 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote: ... And that raises a point about diminishing returns. Is a $7000 road bike really twice as good as a $3500 road bike? Is it four times as good as a $1750 road bike? How much does it increase your speed, or your riding comfort, your maximum distance, or anything beyond your bragging rights? Of course not. Diminishing returns is one of the constants of the universe. Is a $50 steak twice as good as a $25 steak? Is a $1,000,000 Ferrari twice as good as a $500,000 Jaguar? There exists a continuum of price-value points because different people have different internal values for a dollar. And as Andrew implied, as price point rises the "value" tends more and more to include a display of conspicuous consumption. It's not illegal, and I'm not saying it should be. But it seems shallow to use conspicuous consumption to gain status, or to respond to it by conferring status. Surely there are better measures of a person's worth. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#20
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JJP&E Through Axle Conversion Kit
On 9/13/2020 3:47 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 12:06:53 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: And that raises a point about diminishing returns. Is a $7000 road bike really twice as good as a $3500 road bike? Is it four times as good as a $1750 road bike? How much does it increase your speed, or your riding comfort, your maximum distance, or anything beyond your bragging rights? One of my earliest biking buddies (back in the early 1970s) said "I can't afford the best car in the world. I can't afford the best stereo system in the world. But I can afford the best bike in the world." Note that his statement wasn't in terms of performance benefits or longevity or anything practical. It was essentially bragging rights and self satisfaction. So you never bought a bike that was expensive simply because you wanted it? Actually, no. I've bought a few bikes that stretched the budget, or seemed expensive (although probably not to certain posters here) but all were careful and rational decisions. All worked out very well. Our biggest stretch was probably the custom tandem, bought when most people would probably have said we should have put the money into our very meager savings account. As I told a woman yesterday (who was admiring it), it proved to be one of the best purchases we ever made. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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