Question regarding spokes on high-profile wheels

Hello: A couple of months ago I bought me a used but never riden 10
year old road bicycle (F. Moser steal frame and Mirage set-up). In the
last couple of months I rode around 5000 km on it.

However, 1000 km ago a spoke at the rear high-profile wheel from
Camapgnolo "Zonada" broke. A mechnic replaced it.

Last weekend again a spoke broke and I went to a big dealer. I asked
him whether he would like to replace all of the 16 spokes by newer
ones.

He told me it wouldn't make sense that he starts to replace them. The
best what I can do in my situation is to send (though 10 years old but
fairly new as already mentioned) it to Campagnolo and they should
replace the spokes because he will fail to give tension to spokes
proper.

My problem: at one side the spokes are fairly stiff but at the other
side some spokes are loose though the rear wheel is perfectly trued.

Is it true that one cannot go to replace all the spokes at high
profile wheels?

Thanks,
Schneewittchen

Förster vom Silberwald wrote:
My problem: at one side the spokes are fairly stiff but at the other
side some spokes are loose though the rear wheel is perfectly trued.

I understand that, eg, spoke on the upper half of the wheel are firm,
and those of the lower half are loose?
Solution : buy a new wheel.
It seems the rim is slightly bent or out of round, this is hard to
repair efficiently - and if not repaired you will broke spoke after
spoke, and you don't have too many on that wheel do you?


If those of the right (gear) side are firmer than those of the left
side, it is much more normal! The difference in tension may be up to 2
times... Or you may check the wheel dish (centering of the rim in the
frame)?

wrote:
Förster vom Silberwald wrote:
My problem: at one side the spokes are fairly stiff but at the other
side some spokes are loose though the rear wheel is perfectly trued.

I understand that, eg, spoke on the upper half of the wheel are firm,
and those of the lower half are loose?
Solution : buy a new wheel.
It seems the rim is slightly bent or out of round, this is hard to
repair efficiently - and if not repaired you will broke spoke after
spoke, and you don't have too many on that wheel do you?


If those of the right (gear) side are firmer than those of the left
side, it is much more normal! The difference in tension may be up to 2
times... Or you may check the wheel dish (centering of the rim in the
frame)?

Hello:

Btw: my weight shouldn't be the problem (180 centimeters, and 72
kilograms)

Spokes on the gear side (all of them) are much stiffer than the spokes
on the other side.

However, on the other (not gear side) side some spokes are firm and
some are not so firm.

I always thought that even if spokes on the not-gear side are not that
firm that all should have the same "firmness" at least for one of
the sides.

I am quite sure the rim is not bent or out of round.

I cannot buy quickly yet another wheel-set because me gearing is old
Campagnolo 8x (53/39 and 13-26).

Förster vom Silberwald wrote:
He told me it wouldn't make sense that he starts to replace them. The
best what I can do in my situation is to send (though 10 years old but
fairly new as already mentioned) it to Campagnolo and they should
replace the spokes because he will fail to give tension to spokes
proper.

The tension in a 16 spoke wheel is so high that a fixture is required
to unload the spokes so that they can be adjusted.

My problem: at one side the spokes are fairly stiff but at the other
side some spokes are loose though the rear wheel is perfectly trued.

The right side spokes (in a rear wheel) will have much more tension
than left side spokes. That is normal. But all the spokes on one side
should have similar tension.

If you've broken two spokes in a short time, it's probably best to
replace them all. Or better yet, switch to 32 or 36 spoke wheels.

Art Harris

Förster vom Silberwald wrote:
Hello: A couple of months ago I bought me a used but never riden 10
year old road bicycle (F. Moser steal frame and Mirage set-up). In the
last couple of months I rode around 5000 km on it.

However, 1000 km ago a spoke at the rear high-profile wheel from
Camapgnolo "Zonada" broke. A mechnic replaced it.

Last weekend again a spoke broke and I went to a big dealer. I asked
him whether he would like to replace all of the 16 spokes by newer
ones.

He told me it wouldn't make sense that he starts to replace them. The
best what I can do in my situation is to send (though 10 years old but
fairly new as already mentioned) it to Campagnolo and they should
replace the spokes because he will fail to give tension to spokes
proper.

My problem: at one side the spokes are fairly stiff but at the other
side some spokes are loose though the rear wheel is perfectly trued.

Is it true that one cannot go to replace all the spokes at high
profile wheels?

Not true but spokes break because of a deformed rim, not because
something is wrong with the spokes....

Thanks,
Schneewittchen

Förster vom Silberwald wrote:
However, on the other (not gear side) side some spokes are firm and
some are not so firm.

I always thought that even if spokes on the not-gear side are not that
firm that all should have the same "firmness" at least for one of
the sides.

Yes you're right!
Such an unevenness of tension *with a true wheel* does usually indicate
a bent rim.


I cannot buy quickly yet another wheel-set because me gearing is old
Campagnolo 8x (53/39 and 13-26).

I'd say you would be able to mount your 8sp cassette on a 9sp freehub -
I'm sure of that with Shimano, but don't know Campy enough.

Art Harris wrote:
F�rster vom Silberwald wrote:
He told me it wouldn't make sense that he starts to replace them. The
best what I can do in my situation is to send (though 10 years old but
fairly new as already mentioned) it to Campagnolo and they should
replace the spokes because he will fail to give tension to spokes
proper.

The tension in a 16 spoke wheel is so high that a fixture is required
to unload the spokes so that they can be adjusted.

that's not true! tension is same ballpark as a normal wheel. and you
can adjust them no problem. you're propagating jobstian myth there art.


My problem: at one side the spokes are fairly stiff but at the other
side some spokes are loose though the rear wheel is perfectly trued.

The right side spokes (in a rear wheel) will have much more tension
than left side spokes. That is normal. But all the spokes on one side
should have similar tension.

If you've broken two spokes in a short time, it's probably best to
replace them all. Or better yet, switch to 32 or 36 spoke wheels.

again, entirely unnecessary. 36 spoke wheels date from the time of
flexible low-pro rims and poor fatigue-prone spokes. today, higher
profile rims and much more fatigue resistant spokes make high spoke
count wheels complete overkill.


Art Harris

� wrote:
Hello: A couple of months ago I bought me a used but never riden 10
year old road bicycle (F. Moser steal frame and Mirage set-up). In the
last couple of months I rode around 5000 km on it.

However, 1000 km ago a spoke at the rear high-profile wheel from
Camapgnolo "Zonada" broke. A mechnic replaced it.

Last weekend again a spoke broke and I went to a big dealer. I asked
him whether he would like to replace all of the 16 spokes by newer
ones.

He told me it wouldn't make sense that he starts to replace them. The
best what I can do in my situation is to send (though 10 years old but
fairly new as already mentioned) it to Campagnolo and they should
replace the spokes because he will fail to give tension to spokes
proper.

My problem: at one side the spokes are fairly stiff but at the other
side some spokes are loose though the rear wheel is perfectly trued.

Is it true that one cannot go to replace all the spokes at high
profile wheels?

Thanks,
Schneewittchen

may be a bad batch of spokes or even spoke damage. ever dropped the
chain between the spokes and the cassette? make sure the rim is true,
then have the wheel re-spoked with a good brand like sapim or d.t.

jim beam wrote:
The tension in a 16 spoke wheel is so high that a fixture is required
to unload the spokes so that they can be adjusted.

that's not true! tension is same ballpark as a normal wheel.

I have no precise data about it, but would have thought that the sum of
the spokes tension in a wheel should remain of the same order of
magnitude to prevent spoke slackening? That would imply that the spoke
tension of a 16-spokes wheel should be twice as much as the one of a
32-spokes one?


If you've broken two spokes in a short time, it's probably best to
replace them all. Or better yet, switch to 32 or 36 spoke wheels.

again, entirely unnecessary. 36 spoke wheels date from the time of
flexible low-pro rims and poor fatigue-prone spokes. today, higher
profile rims and much more fatigue resistant spokes make high spoke
count wheels complete overkill.

Mechanical conception is always a compromise, and I'd say that if
36-spokes wheels may be overbuilt for sportive purposes, 16-spokes one
might in the other hand still be underbuilt for someone wishing more
durability than performance...
Is that diplomatic enough ;o) ?


t
To OP : Freundlichen Grüssen von den (französichen ;o) Zwergen,
Nicolas

Hi, you say a mechanic replaced a spoke for you. A lot of bicycle
shops employ children (teenaged children) to do stuff like this, so the
results may vary.

Wheel building is not brain surgery and it is a good skill to learn if
you ride a bicycle.

You might find this article interesting:-

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

Hope this helps you.

Lewis.

******


Förster vom Silberwald wrote:
Hello: A couple of months ago I bought me a used but never riden 10
year old road bicycle (F. Moser steal frame and Mirage set-up). In the
last couple of months I rode around 5000 km on it.

However, 1000 km ago a spoke at the rear high-profile wheel from
Camapgnolo "Zonada" broke. A mechnic replaced it.

Last weekend again a spoke broke and I went to a big dealer. I asked
him whether he would like to replace all of the 16 spokes by newer
ones.

He told me it wouldn't make sense that he starts to replace them. The
best what I can do in my situation is to send (though 10 years old but
fairly new as already mentioned) it to Campagnolo and they should
replace the spokes because he will fail to give tension to spokes
proper.

My problem: at one side the spokes are fairly stiff but at the other
side some spokes are loose though the rear wheel is perfectly trued.

Is it true that one cannot go to replace all the spokes at high
profile wheels?

Thanks,
Schneewittchen