Dry lube?

On 4/29/2018 7:48 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Probably true, but difficult to tell because nobody invites me to
parties any more. I probably wouldn't go because I usually spend the
evening cornered by people asking questions on how to fix their
computahs, cars, appliances, etc.

Tell them to make an appointment and quote your service charge and
hourly rate.

On 4/29/2018 8:19 AM, wrote:

Another thing that is puzzling is that while you are recommending this
remarkable foaming stuff and don't actually say so your language seems
to hint that without foam it just won't penetrate into the chain links
yet I have worked on chain driven equipment with chains that were ten
or more years old. Still perfectly usable and no foam at all. Just a
SAE 40 oil bath.

It is easy to penetrate a chain. The lube just has to have a low enough viscosity that is all. Thats why wax based lubes have some volatile component. The cheapest is iso propanol. Oil has a low enough viscosity of his own.

So the question is, is foam really necessary?

Of course not.

The advantage of using a foaming chain lubricant is that, unlike an oil
bath, you don't have to remove the chain and soak it.

With an oil bath, it does help to heat the oil slightly if you want to
speed up the process.

I have tried doing an "oil bath" with one of those chain cleaning tools
filled with non-detergent oil instead of solvent. It works, but it's
messy and probably no faster than removing the chain, since you need to
move the chain through the oil pretty slowly.

With the new thinner chains, you want to minimize removing them unless
they have a connecting link and don't require a rivet extractor.

My goal is to minimize the time and expense of chain maintenance. A
chain cleaning tool used with kerosene or diesel fuel as a solvent, and
a can of non-O-ring foaming chain lubricant gets the time down to just a
few minutes. I have no interest in recreational chain maintenance.

On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 10:26:57 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 4/29/2018 8:19 AM, wrote:

Another thing that is puzzling is that while you are recommending this
remarkable foaming stuff and don't actually say so your language seems
to hint that without foam it just won't penetrate into the chain links
yet I have worked on chain driven equipment with chains that were ten
or more years old. Still perfectly usable and no foam at all. Just a
SAE 40 oil bath.

It is easy to penetrate a chain. The lube just has to have a low enough viscosity that is all. Thats why wax based lubes have some volatile component. The cheapest is iso propanol. Oil has a low enough viscosity of his own.

So the question is, is foam really necessary?

Of course not.

The advantage of using a foaming chain lubricant is that, unlike an oil
bath, you don't have to remove the chain and soak it.

With an oil bath, it does help to heat the oil slightly if you want to
speed up the process.

I have tried doing an "oil bath" with one of those chain cleaning tools
filled with non-detergent oil instead of solvent. It works, but it's
messy and probably no faster than removing the chain, since you need to
move the chain through the oil pretty slowly.

With the new thinner chains, you want to minimize removing them unless
they have a connecting link and don't require a rivet extractor.

My goal is to minimize the time and expense of chain maintenance. A
chain cleaning tool used with kerosene or diesel fuel as a solvent, and
a can of non-O-ring foaming chain lubricant gets the time down to just a
few minutes. I have no interest in recreational chain maintenance.

Bad news -- most 11sp quick-links are designated single use. https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/p...ector-11-speed

Probably to sell them in bulk. Goin' to Joergville for those: https://www.amazon.com/JooFn-Silver-...ter+link&psc=1


Personally, I use Sheldon Brown's chain cleaning system. It's the best: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html


-- Jay Beattie

On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 7:26:57 PM UTC+2, sms wrote:
On 4/29/2018 8:19 AM, wrote:

Another thing that is puzzling is that while you are recommending this
remarkable foaming stuff and don't actually say so your language seems
to hint that without foam it just won't penetrate into the chain links
yet I have worked on chain driven equipment with chains that were ten
or more years old. Still perfectly usable and no foam at all. Just a
SAE 40 oil bath.

It is easy to penetrate a chain. The lube just has to have a low enough viscosity that is all. Thats why wax based lubes have some volatile component. The cheapest is iso propanol. Oil has a low enough viscosity of his own.

On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 9:03:42 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 10:26:57 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 4/29/2018 8:19 AM, wrote:

Another thing that is puzzling is that while you are recommending this
remarkable foaming stuff and don't actually say so your language seems
to hint that without foam it just won't penetrate into the chain links
yet I have worked on chain driven equipment with chains that were ten
or more years old. Still perfectly usable and no foam at all. Just a
SAE 40 oil bath.

It is easy to penetrate a chain. The lube just has to have a low enough viscosity that is all. Thats why wax based lubes have some volatile component. The cheapest is iso propanol. Oil has a low enough viscosity of his own.

So the question is, is foam really necessary?

Of course not.

The advantage of using a foaming chain lubricant is that, unlike an oil
bath, you don't have to remove the chain and soak it.

With an oil bath, it does help to heat the oil slightly if you want to
speed up the process.

I have tried doing an "oil bath" with one of those chain cleaning tools
filled with non-detergent oil instead of solvent. It works, but it's
messy and probably no faster than removing the chain, since you need to
move the chain through the oil pretty slowly.

With the new thinner chains, you want to minimize removing them unless
they have a connecting link and don't require a rivet extractor.

My goal is to minimize the time and expense of chain maintenance. A
chain cleaning tool used with kerosene or diesel fuel as a solvent, and
a can of non-O-ring foaming chain lubricant gets the time down to just a
few minutes. I have no interest in recreational chain maintenance.

Bad news -- most 11sp quick-links are designated single use. https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/p...ector-11-speed

Probably to sell them in bulk. Goin' to Joergville for those: https://www.amazon.com/JooFn-Silver-...ter+link&psc=1


Personally, I use Sheldon Brown's chain cleaning system. It's the best: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html


-- Jay Beattie

Leave your bloody chain on your bike for gods sake especially 10-11 speed chains.

Lou

On 01/05/2018 3:09 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 7:26:57 PM UTC+2, sms wrote:
On 4/29/2018 8:19 AM, wrote:

Another thing that is puzzling is that while you are recommending this
remarkable foaming stuff and don't actually say so your language seems
to hint that without foam it just won't penetrate into the chain links
yet I have worked on chain driven equipment with chains that were ten
or more years old. Still perfectly usable and no foam at all. Just a
SAE 40 oil bath.

It is easy to penetrate a chain. The lube just has to have a low enough viscosity that is all. Thats why wax based lubes have some volatile component. The cheapest is iso propanol. Oil has a low enough viscosity of his own.

So the question is, is foam really necessary?

Of course not.

The advantage of using a foaming chain lubricant is that, unlike an oil
bath, you don't have to remove the chain and soak it.

With an oil bath, it does help to heat the oil slightly if you want to
speed up the process.

I have tried doing an "oil bath" with one of those chain cleaning tools
filled with non-detergent oil instead of solvent. It works, but it's
messy and probably no faster than removing the chain, since you need to
move the chain through the oil pretty slowly.

With the new thinner chains, you want to minimize removing them unless
they have a connecting link and don't require a rivet extractor.

My goal is to minimize the time and expense of chain maintenance. A
chain cleaning tool used with kerosene or diesel fuel as a solvent, and
a can of non-O-ring foaming chain lubricant gets the time down to just a
few minutes. I have no interest in recreational chain maintenance.

Then I do everything wrong:
- use wax base lube,
- don't use a torch, just drip the stuff on every roller,
- never take my chain of the bike,
- never clean it with nasty solvents.
Rode last Sunday more than 2 hours is a down pour. My chain didn't squeak after the wetter improved. Came home and hosed my bike with the garden hose. Wiped my bike and chain dry, put it in the stand and lubed my chain the next day.

Well **** it, a chain life of 8000 km is good enough for me...
I showed this picture befo

https://photos.app.goo.gl/LHuxnrNkPxZL8NbF6

From top to bottom: new chain, chain lubed with my wax based lube and chain lubed with Rohloff chain oil for a while. Both chains had a milage of 8500 km. Yes, Mike, Sheldon and Jobs had it wrong sometimes IMO. But if you happy with your foaming lube that is OK, but don't tell me that I have to spend a lot of time on chain maintenance to get a long chain life. You are losing your credibility.

Lou


What speed chain?

On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 9:28:54 PM UTC+2, duane wrote:
On 01/05/2018 3:09 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 7:26:57 PM UTC+2, sms wrote:
On 4/29/2018 8:19 AM, wrote:

Another thing that is puzzling is that while you are recommending this
remarkable foaming stuff and don't actually say so your language seems
to hint that without foam it just won't penetrate into the chain links
yet I have worked on chain driven equipment with chains that were ten
or more years old. Still perfectly usable and no foam at all. Just a
SAE 40 oil bath.

It is easy to penetrate a chain. The lube just has to have a low enough viscosity that is all. Thats why wax based lubes have some volatile component. The cheapest is iso propanol. Oil has a low enough viscosity of his own.

So the question is, is foam really necessary?

Of course not.

The advantage of using a foaming chain lubricant is that, unlike an oil
bath, you don't have to remove the chain and soak it.

With an oil bath, it does help to heat the oil slightly if you want to
speed up the process.

I have tried doing an "oil bath" with one of those chain cleaning tools
filled with non-detergent oil instead of solvent. It works, but it's
messy and probably no faster than removing the chain, since you need to
move the chain through the oil pretty slowly.

With the new thinner chains, you want to minimize removing them unless
they have a connecting link and don't require a rivet extractor.

My goal is to minimize the time and expense of chain maintenance. A
chain cleaning tool used with kerosene or diesel fuel as a solvent, and
a can of non-O-ring foaming chain lubricant gets the time down to just a
few minutes. I have no interest in recreational chain maintenance.

Then I do everything wrong:
- use wax base lube,
- don't use a torch, just drip the stuff on every roller,
- never take my chain of the bike,
- never clean it with nasty solvents.
Rode last Sunday more than 2 hours is a down pour. My chain didn't squeak after the wetter improved. Came home and hosed my bike with the garden hose. Wiped my bike and chain dry, put it in the stand and lubed my chain the next day.

Well **** it, a chain life of 8000 km is good enough for me...
I showed this picture befo

https://photos.app.goo.gl/LHuxnrNkPxZL8NbF6

From top to bottom: new chain, chain lubed with my wax based lube and chain lubed with Rohloff chain oil for a while. Both chains had a milage of 8500 km. Yes, Mike, Sheldon and Jobs had it wrong sometimes IMO. But if you happy with your foaming lube that is OK, but don't tell me that I have to spend a lot of time on chain maintenance to get a long chain life. You are losing your credibility.

Lou


What speed chain?

11, what else? It is 2018 here on this side of the pond ;-)

Lou

On 01/05/2018 3:37 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 9:28:54 PM UTC+2, duane wrote:
On 01/05/2018 3:09 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 1, 2018 at 7:26:57 PM UTC+2, sms wrote:
On 4/29/2018 8:19 AM, wrote:

Another thing that is puzzling is that while you are recommending this
remarkable foaming stuff and don't actually say so your language seems
to hint that without foam it just won't penetrate into the chain links
yet I have worked on chain driven equipment with chains that were ten
or more years old. Still perfectly usable and no foam at all. Just a
SAE 40 oil bath.

It is easy to penetrate a chain. The lube just has to have a low enough viscosity that is all. Thats why wax based lubes have some volatile component. The cheapest is iso propanol. Oil has a low enough viscosity of his own.

So the question is, is foam really necessary?

Of course not.

The advantage of using a foaming chain lubricant is that, unlike an oil
bath, you don't have to remove the chain and soak it.

With an oil bath, it does help to heat the oil slightly if you want to
speed up the process.

I have tried doing an "oil bath" with one of those chain cleaning tools
filled with non-detergent oil instead of solvent. It works, but it's
messy and probably no faster than removing the chain, since you need to
move the chain through the oil pretty slowly.

With the new thinner chains, you want to minimize removing them unless
they have a connecting link and don't require a rivet extractor.

My goal is to minimize the time and expense of chain maintenance. A
chain cleaning tool used with kerosene or diesel fuel as a solvent, and
a can of non-O-ring foaming chain lubricant gets the time down to just a
few minutes. I have no interest in recreational chain maintenance.

Then I do everything wrong:
- use wax base lube,
- don't use a torch, just drip the stuff on every roller,
- never take my chain of the bike,
- never clean it with nasty solvents.
Rode last Sunday more than 2 hours is a down pour. My chain didn't squeak after the wetter improved. Came home and hosed my bike with the garden hose. Wiped my bike and chain dry, put it in the stand and lubed my chain the next day.

Well **** it, a chain life of 8000 km is good enough for me...
I showed this picture befo

https://photos.app.goo.gl/LHuxnrNkPxZL8NbF6

From top to bottom: new chain, chain lubed with my wax based lube and chain lubed with Rohloff chain oil for a while. Both chains had a milage of 8500 km. Yes, Mike, Sheldon and Jobs had it wrong sometimes IMO. But if you happy with your foaming lube that is OK, but don't tell me that I have to spend a lot of time on chain maintenance to get a long chain life. You are losing your credibility.

Lou


What speed chain?

11, what else? It is 2018 here on this side of the pond ;-)


I have the same. 8500 is pretty good. I get around 4 or 5000km on mine.

On Tue, 1 May 2018 09:30:08 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 4/29/2018 7:48 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Probably true, but difficult to tell because nobody invites me to
parties any more. I probably wouldn't go because I usually spend the
evening cornered by people asking questions on how to fix their
computahs, cars, appliances, etc.

Tell them to make an appointment and quote your service charge and
hourly rate.

I made some engraved ID badges with "I Hate Computers". I usually
wear one at ham radio meetings and events, where avoiding such
questions are an obvious problem.
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/I%20Hate%20Computers.jpg
I also have a jacket with "No, I will not fix your computer" on the
back. If I should ever accidentally be invited to a party, I'll be
sure to wear these and let you know what happened.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 5/1/2018 6:03 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 1 May 2018 09:30:08 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 4/29/2018 7:48 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Probably true, but difficult to tell because nobody invites me to
parties any more. I probably wouldn't go because I usually spend the
evening cornered by people asking questions on how to fix their
computahs, cars, appliances, etc.

Tell them to make an appointment and quote your service charge and
hourly rate.

I made some engraved ID badges with "I Hate Computers". I usually
wear one at ham radio meetings and events, where avoiding such
questions are an obvious problem.
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/I%20Hate%20Computers.jpg
I also have a jacket with "No, I will not fix your computer" on the
back. If I should ever accidentally be invited to a party, I'll be
sure to wear these and let you know what happened.


My MD brother responds to medical questions at social events
with, "Sure, undress and I'll examine you now."

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971