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Who is a real cyclist ?



 
 
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  #71  
Old September 6th 18, 07:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
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Default Who is a real cyclist ?

On 06/09/18 05:26, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I was once on a long organized ride when the weather turned very hot and very humid. I took off my helmet and attached it to a long strap and then slung it over my shoulder. Someone told me that the form I signed in order to participate in that ride stated: "I promise to wear an approved helmet on this ride". I t old that person that it was true but nowhere on the form did it state that the helmet had to be worn on my head.


There are certain places where the greatest danger is heatstroke and
similar that vehicle impact. So a large cotton hat makes more sense.


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  #72  
Old September 6th 18, 03:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
dave[_3_]
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Default Who is a real cyclist ?

On Thu, 06 Sep 2018 16:51:55 +1000, news18 wrote:

On 06/09/18 05:26, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I was once on a long organized ride when the weather turned very hot
and very humid. I took off my helmet and attached it to a long strap
and then slung it over my shoulder. Someone told me that the form I
signed in order to participate in that ride stated: "I promise to wear
an approved helmet on this ride". I t old that person that it was true
but nowhere on the form did it state that the helmet had to be worn on
my head.


There are certain places where the greatest danger is heatstroke and
similar that vehicle impact. So a large cotton hat makes more sense.


I agree wholeheartedly. In extreme temps I would say a helmet could be
worse for your head than none. once you get past 40c in the sun some kind
of floppy cotton hat is way more protective than an insulated oven helmet.

People are basically going to do whatever they want though so meh.
--
davethedave
  #73  
Old September 6th 18, 04:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Default Who is a real cyclist ?

On 9/5/2018 3:26 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, September 5, 2018 at 9:31:39 AM UTC-4, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Tim McNamara wrote:

A friend of mine has a standard response- if
someone asks him "where's your helmet?" his
reply is "where are your manners?"


Err... how about "I left it in my other pants?"

Snipped
--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573


I was once on a long organized ride when the weather turned very hot and very humid. I took off my helmet and attached it to a long strap and then slung it over my shoulder. Someone told me that the form I signed in order to participate in that ride stated: "I promise to wear an approved helmet on this ride". I t old that person that it was true but nowhere on the form did it state that the helmet had to be worn on my head.


Some time in the 1990s I was driving sag support for a charity ride. A
good friend (I'll call him Sam) was riding with me. The ride had a "must
wear a helmet" rule.

On a quiet country road on that very hot day, we came across an old guy
(that is, not nearly as old as I am now!) doing the ride all alone. No
other cyclists or cars were in sight. The guy had his helmet strapped on
his back rack, probably because of the heat.

My friend said "He's not wearing his helmet!! Stop the car!! We need to
make him put it on!!"

I said "We can't do that! He's a grown man. Let him do what he wants."

"But it's in the rules! He can't be on the ride without a helmet!!"

"Sam, what are we going to do? Tell him he can't ride on a public road?
We're letting him alone." And I drove on.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #74  
Old September 6th 18, 04:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Default Who is a real cyclist ?

On 9/6/2018 10:44 AM, dave wrote:
On Thu, 06 Sep 2018 16:51:55 +1000, news18 wrote:

On 06/09/18 05:26, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I was once on a long organized ride when the weather turned very hot
and very humid. I took off my helmet and attached it to a long strap
and then slung it over my shoulder. Someone told me that the form I
signed in order to participate in that ride stated: "I promise to wear
an approved helmet on this ride". I t old that person that it was true
but nowhere on the form did it state that the helmet had to be worn on
my head.


There are certain places where the greatest danger is heatstroke and
similar that vehicle impact. So a large cotton hat makes more sense.


I agree wholeheartedly. In extreme temps I would say a helmet could be
worse for your head than none. once you get past 40c in the sun some kind
of floppy cotton hat is way more protective than an insulated oven helmet.

People are basically going to do whatever they want though so meh.


.... except there are always people who demand that others do what THEY
want them to do. Most of them know nothing beyond "Always wear a
helmet!!!" Dunning-Kruger at its finest.



--
- Frank Krygowski
  #75  
Old September 6th 18, 07:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Default Who is a real cyclist ?

On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 8:44:30 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/5/2018 3:26 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, September 5, 2018 at 9:31:39 AM UTC-4, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Tim McNamara wrote:

A friend of mine has a standard response- if
someone asks him "where's your helmet?" his
reply is "where are your manners?"

Err... how about "I left it in my other pants?"

Snipped
--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573


I was once on a long organized ride when the weather turned very hot and very humid. I took off my helmet and attached it to a long strap and then slung it over my shoulder. Someone told me that the form I signed in order to participate in that ride stated: "I promise to wear an approved helmet on this ride". I t old that person that it was true but nowhere on the form did it state that the helmet had to be worn on my head.


Some time in the 1990s I was driving sag support for a charity ride. A
good friend (I'll call him Sam) was riding with me. The ride had a "must
wear a helmet" rule.

On a quiet country road on that very hot day, we came across an old guy
(that is, not nearly as old as I am now!) doing the ride all alone. No
other cyclists or cars were in sight. The guy had his helmet strapped on
his back rack, probably because of the heat.

My friend said "He's not wearing his helmet!! Stop the car!! We need to
make him put it on!!"

I said "We can't do that! He's a grown man. Let him do what he wants."

"But it's in the rules! He can't be on the ride without a helmet!!"

"Sam, what are we going to do? Tell him he can't ride on a public road?
We're letting him alone." And I drove on.


That was truly an act of compassion, and I'm sure that tire old man with his helmet strapped to his rack says a prayer for you every night. Helmets are the scourge of humanity -- worse than world war or the Spanish flu. BIG HELMET has been lying to us for decades, and its time they get their comeuppance. Damn you BIG HELMET! Grrrrrrrrrr!

-- Jay Beattie

  #76  
Old September 6th 18, 07:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
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Default Who is a real cyclist ?

jbeattie wrote:

That was truly an act of compassion, and I'm
sure that tire old man with his helmet
strapped to his rack says a prayer for you
every night. Helmets are the scourge of
humanity -- worse than world war or the
Spanish flu. BIG HELMET has been lying to us
for decades, and its time they get their
comeuppance. Damn you BIG
HELMET! Grrrrrrrrrr!


But on the other hand, it is *such*
a conversation topic! If it weren't for
helmets, what would we all be talking about?
Can you imagine what a dull world it would be?
It's like telling the youth to stop talking
about dope and travel! Can't have that.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #77  
Old September 6th 18, 08:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 102
Default Who is a real cyclist ?

On Thursday, September 6, 2018 at 2:51:59 AM UTC-4, news18 wrote:
On 06/09/18 05:26, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
I was once on a long organized ride when the weather turned very hot and very humid. I took off my helmet and attached it to a long strap and then slung it over my shoulder. Someone told me that the form I signed in order to participate in that ride stated: "I promise to wear an approved helmet on this ride". I t old that person that it was true but nowhere on the form did it state that the helmet had to be worn on my head.


There are certain places where the greatest danger is heatstroke and
similar that vehicle impact. So a large cotton hat makes more sense.


Likely more sense than the stripy-spotty suntan I got through the slots of my helmet this past August.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
  #78  
Old September 6th 18, 10:13 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Who is a real cyclist ?

On Monday, September 3, 2018 at 2:09:10 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, September 2, 2018 at 6:36:49 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Monday, September 3, 2018 at 2:16:01 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
I did a ride today with the first 20 miles on a rail-trail MUP conversion, the Springwater Corridor. Apart from the homeless staggering across the trail or parking their shopping carts in it, the trail is a very usable facility and a straight shot to the hinterlands. https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3693/9...4c3c668c_b.jpg


Looks like a tarmac track straight to Mount Fuji. That's the Japanese heartland, not the hinterland.

I thought you live in Portland, Oregon.


The reality is much less picturesque. Put your camera in the right spot, and you can get a beautiful shot of Mt. Hood with homeless and shopping carts in the foreground. It's the new Portland postcard.

-- Jay Beattie.


Three blocks from city hall in Oakland they had a homeless encampment. The same city that is spending uncounted dollars on illegal aliens.
  #79  
Old September 6th 18, 11:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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On Wednesday, September 5, 2018 at 7:43:17 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, September 5, 2018 at 2:15:06 PM UTC+1, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Maybe one
should just stick with, "I'm sure glad I had my
helmet!" if that's the way one feels.


The problem with that reduction is that the usual anti-helmet zealots are then free to read whatever they want into your statement and put words into your mouth.

But actually I think that is what the original
statement amounts to.


See, you're doing it too.

There's a greater danger than the nastiness of Krygowski et al. It is that the constant nastiness when anyone even mentions helmets will tend over time to interfere with the freedom of the rest of us to say whatever we please about helmets. You'd swear from the reaction to just the word "Helmets!" that someone proposed taking the popguns on which their masculinity depends away from the American AHZ.

The irony is that it is easier than anywhere else on earth to make a case for mandatory helmets in the States than anywhere else, simply because a really good set of statistics on the subject exists. Which is why the usual cowardly AHZ absolutely refuse to discuss the comprehensive study I used to do exactly that. I reprise the relevant article in a new thread. See https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...ch/qOFCNhQ1428

Andre Jute
The power of knowledge


Anti-Helmet Zealot? Exactly what is that? Someone that insists you aren't going to have your life saved by a helmet? Anyone that can see that they reduce children riding bicycles?

One might say that your interpretation of statistics is very flawed. The last decent statistics show that Americans drive about 3 Trillion miles per year. Of that number there are some 38,000 deaths each year meaning that every 79 million miles some car driver dies.

The American League of Wheelmen reports that in 2009 there were some 4 BILLION trips on bicycles. The total number of bicycle miles traveled each year is dramatically different depending on which government agency you ask. But all of them show about 6 BILLION miles (on the low side) on bicycles every year - the Consumer Product Safety Commission puts it at 150 billion miles. And there are approximately 820 cyclists killed each year.

This would indicate that for every 7 Million miles traveled on bicycles some bicyclist is killed.

On the surface that makes motor vehicles approximately 11 times safer than bicycles. Wouldn't you expect this from a person tied into a crash cage? (If you use the CPSC numbers bicycles are TWICE as safe as motor vehicles.)

Except in almost every single death it was because the bicyclist was struck by a motor vehicle breaking driving laws.

So the real case is that bicycles are more ENDANGERED by motor vehicles than by themselves.

About your crap about head injuries causing the majority of deaths on bicycles - SO WHAT? They are also the leading cause of death in motor vehicle accidents. The MAXIMUM energy absorption that a helmet can take is 15 MPH. Got that? What is the average speed of a vehicle involved in killing bicyclists? 40 mph.

Helmets? They are good for the normal bicycle accident - falling off in your driveway trying to get your pedals unclipped. Rubbing wheels with the fellow you're riding with and falling over. Do they save lives? No and they were never designed to do so. They are nothing more than a commercial offshoot of motorcycle helmets that were designed FOR ROAD RACING. For falling independently and dragging your head against the ground where the hard shell will prevent your skin from being rubbed off.

There certainly is nothing wrong with wearing a helmet because they help prevent minor injuries in the most common minor accidents. But they do not save lives except perhaps in the most unusual and rare accident.

But the vast majority of bicyclists are commuters and never fall because they are not clipped into pedals and can get a foot down in time to prevent a fall. They do not ride fast to the point where they take chances running yellow lights or riding out in traffic. Most of the miles put in by bicyclists are commuters. And every year there is a growth of some 7% in commuting by bicycles.

Please do NOT give us your misconceptions of bicycle safety and helmets in particular.
  #80  
Old September 6th 18, 11:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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On Wednesday, September 5, 2018 at 4:58:18 PM UTC-7, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 5 Sep 2018 11:03:27 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 9/5/2018 9:31 AM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Tim McNamara wrote:

A friend of mine has a standard response- if
someone asks him "where's your helmet?" his
reply is "where are your manners?"

Err... how about "I left it in my other pants?"

I don't know if that happens in other
countries, but in the US [...]

Here, people use bikes to do almost anything,
often several times a day. Kids go to school,
young adults go to the university and to
parties thru the night, everyone else go to
work or to get food or to do sport or just
about anything. So no one riding a bike feels
he or she is part of a shunned minority, and
there is no reason to acknoledge or even notice
if someone else is "doing it" as well.


To illustrate the U.S., at least, some years ago:

Sometime in the 1980s, I rode my bike as usual to the bank where we did
business. That was back in the days when I wore a bike helmet.

I was always pleased that the bank had a bike rack at its door. That was
_extremely_ unusual. (And the rack has since been removed.) Anyway, I
finished my business at the bank and was retrieving my bike when an
older-middle-aged lady emerged from the bank.

She looked at me with obvious disgust, shook her head and said "Well, at
_least_ you're wearing a helmet." Clearly, she thought riding a bike a
couple blocks was absolutely foolhardy.

I think things have improved a bit, partly because I'm seen riding the
bike everywhere. But it's still considered very unusual. I was
interviewed in 1993 and in 2011 about my biking to work. Those were
almost full-page articles each time. I was also interviewed in the 1990s
about my summer project, to ride to each of the county's 18 library
branches and check out a book at every one.

If simply riding a bike is newsworthy, I'd say something is wrong with
society. :-(


It does seem rather strange as when I grew up practically every boy
had a bicycle and rode it everywhere. An "older - middle aged" person
in the 1980's would probably have been old enough to have some
recollection of those times.

But even as late as the 1970's, kids in Riverside California, where I
lived at the time, had bicycles and rode them daily.


I was stationed at March AFB in the mid-70's In those days I wouldn't even have noticed a bicycle. They were too expensive for most people to own in my Oakland neighborhood. When my older brother stop riding his Roll Easy my father gave it to me so my older brother broke it.
 




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