Compact Frame sizing

On 2007-09-23, landotter wrote:
On Sep 23, 10:45 am, SMS wrote:
Sparky wrote:
I'm looking at getting a road/commuter bike. I want disc brakes (for
the rain) and drop handlebars. I don't want to spend more than
$1,000.00. My target right now is the Schwinn Super Sport DBX. There
are some 2006's still available. My problem is I can't tell if I need
a small or a medium frame. I'm about 5'7". I have an 18" Yukon Giant
MTB and I think it's just a touch big. Any idea what frame size would
be best? I don't really have an opportunity to ride one.

Is there some reason you're looking at a compact frame? For most riders,
a compact frame is a very bad idea.

[drivelsnip]

That's bull****. Just ride a properly sized compact and you can avoid
using a bunch of spacers or stupid stem dohicky to get the bars at a
comfortable height.

You could eliminate spacers if the compact frame had a longer headtube
than a flat top with the same top tube length (measured horizontally),
but with most compacts I think you'd need to buy a custom geometry
to get that. For the compact frames I looked at when I bought my
last bike, when I picked the compact frame size with the top tube length
I prefer I found the head tube was almost exact the same length as my
other bikes, with few exceptions (the Trek Pilot might have been one).
The one I bought (a Gunnar Sport) has the same stem angle and number
of spacers as my horizontal top tube bikes, and the same cockpit length,
it just has more seat post showing.

You might think a flat top looks better--but please, stop with the
bull**** to back up your "faith". The problem is that people buy
frames too small, whether it be sloping top tube or not.

Certainly if you are willing to ride a bike with a longer top tube
you'll be able to get by with fewer spacers, but this is equally true
whether the top tube slopes or not. To reduce the stack of spacers
you would need a longer head tube relative to the horizontal top tube
length, and the standard geometries of the sloping tube bikes I've
looked at mostly don't provide this.

Personally I don't care much about the slope of the top tube, nor
the height of the stack of spacers (except that the latter is limited
if the steerer isn't steel). I just don't think that the standard
geometry of most sloping top tube bikes is designed to achieve want
you want.

Dennis Ferguson

On Sep 23, 6:40 pm, SMS wrote:

Run like hell away from any compact frame road bicycle.

If I had followed this advice six years ago, I would have failed to
buy the best-fitting and most comfortable and reliable bike I've ever
owned.

People come in all different shapes, sizes, builds, proportions. The
availability of more different approaches to frame design only
increases the probability that anyone can find the perfect fit.

Some manufacturers may use compact frames as a way to sell less for
more. So condemn those manufacturers, not the design, because other
manufacturers use the same approach to make better-fitting road bikes
available to people who once had to accept more uncomfortable
compromises.

r

On Sep 24, 12:08 am, Sparky wrote:
In article





wrote:
Sparky wrote:
It's not my first road bike. My first one was run over by a pickup
truck when it hit me. I was young and stupid, and riding on the
wrong side of the road. The driver was looking to his left as he
pulled out of a parking lot and made a right turn and ran me down.
Scary, I had to hold onto the bumper and grill as he dragged me and
the bike into the street. Thank goodness lots of people were honking
their horns, as he was an oblivious SOB.
I'd wait for an REI sale or coupon. They often send out 20% off
coupons for one item, and while it excludes most bicycles, it doesn't
usually exclude Novara bicycles. Add that to their 5% Visa rebate,
and it's down to $836 versus $700.
In any case, you said $1000, so that's why I came up with the best
$1000 bicycle I could find. Remember, you're going to have this
bicycle a long time (hopefully), so you'll forget about a $200
difference soon enough. Run like hell away from any compact frame
road bicycle.

At $836, it's not too bad a deal. It's way over priced at the $1099
rei wants. The front derailleur is shimano 2200, really low end. It
also comes with a steel fork, and the schwinn has a carbon fiber.

Do you really want a CF fork on a commuter? On an *all weather*
commuter?

r

On Sep 24, 3:04 pm, rdclark wrote:
On Sep 24, 12:08 am, Sparky wrote:



In article

wrote:
Sparky wrote:
It's not my first road bike. My first one was run over by a pickup
truck when it hit me. I was young and stupid, and riding on the
wrong side of the road. The driver was looking to his left as he
pulled out of a parking lot and made a right turn and ran me down.
Scary, I had to hold onto the bumper and grill as he dragged me and
the bike into the street. Thank goodness lots of people were honking
their horns, as he was an oblivious SOB.
I'd wait for an REI sale or coupon. They often send out 20% off
coupons for one item, and while it excludes most bicycles, it doesn't
usually exclude Novara bicycles. Add that to their 5% Visa rebate,
and it's down to $836 versus $700.
In any case, you said $1000, so that's why I came up with the best
$1000 bicycle I could find. Remember, you're going to have this
bicycle a long time (hopefully), so you'll forget about a $200
difference soon enough. Run like hell away from any compact frame
road bicycle.

At $836, it's not too bad a deal. It's way over priced at the $1099
rei wants. The front derailleur is shimano 2200, really low end. It
also comes with a steel fork, and the schwinn has a carbon fiber.

Do you really want a CF fork on a commuter? On an *all weather*
commuter?


ISTM that a CF fork is right up there with low spoke-count wheels on
the list of things you *don't want* on a commuter.

(Hey, if you buy a Trek Portland, you can get both stupid things for
one high price.) ;-)

On Sep 24, 3:09 pm, Ozark Bicycle
wrote:
On Sep 24, 3:04 pm, rdclark wrote:



On Sep 24, 12:08 am, Sparky wrote:

In article

wrote:
Sparky wrote:
It's not my first road bike. My first one was run over by a pickup
truck when it hit me. I was young and stupid, and riding on the
wrong side of the road. The driver was looking to his left as he
pulled out of a parking lot and made a right turn and ran me down.
Scary, I had to hold onto the bumper and grill as he dragged me and
the bike into the street. Thank goodness lots of people were honking
their horns, as he was an oblivious SOB.
I'd wait for an REI sale or coupon. They often send out 20% off
coupons for one item, and while it excludes most bicycles, it doesn't
usually exclude Novara bicycles. Add that to their 5% Visa rebate,
and it's down to $836 versus $700.
In any case, you said $1000, so that's why I came up with the best
$1000 bicycle I could find. Remember, you're going to have this
bicycle a long time (hopefully), so you'll forget about a $200
difference soon enough. Run like hell away from any compact frame
road bicycle.

At $836, it's not too bad a deal. It's way over priced at the $1099
rei wants. The front derailleur is shimano 2200, really low end. It
also comes with a steel fork, and the schwinn has a carbon fiber.

Do you really want a CF fork on a commuter? On an *all weather*
commuter?

ISTM that a CF fork is right up there with low spoke-count wheels on
the list of things you *don't want* on a commuter.

(Hey, if you buy a Trek Portland, you can get both stupid things for
one high price.) ;-)

Don't forget the mono cock frame!

On Sep 24, 1:39 pm, Dennis Ferguson wrote:
On 2007-09-23, landotter wrote:





On Sep 23, 10:45 am, SMS wrote:
Sparky wrote:
I'm looking at getting a road/commuter bike. I want disc brakes (for
the rain) and drop handlebars. I don't want to spend more than
$1,000.00. My target right now is the Schwinn Super Sport DBX. There
are some 2006's still available. My problem is I can't tell if I need
a small or a medium frame. I'm about 5'7". I have an 18" Yukon Giant
MTB and I think it's just a touch big. Any idea what frame size would
be best? I don't really have an opportunity to ride one.

Is there some reason you're looking at a compact frame? For most riders,
a compact frame is a very bad idea.

[drivelsnip]

That's bull****. Just ride a properly sized compact and you can avoid
using a bunch of spacers or stupid stem dohicky to get the bars at a
comfortable height.

You could eliminate spacers if the compact frame had a longer headtube
than a flat top with the same top tube length (measured horizontally),
but with most compacts I think you'd need to buy a custom geometry
to get that. For the compact frames I looked at when I bought my
last bike, when I picked the compact frame size with the top tube length
I prefer I found the head tube was almost exact the same length as my
other bikes, with few exceptions (the Trek Pilot might have been one).
The one I bought (a Gunnar Sport) has the same stem angle and number
of spacers as my horizontal top tube bikes, and the same cockpit length,
it just has more seat post showing.

You might think a flat top looks better--but please, stop with the
bull**** to back up your "faith". The problem is that people buy
frames too small, whether it be sloping top tube or not.

Certainly if you are willing to ride a bike with a longer top tube
you'll be able to get by with fewer spacers, but this is equally true
whether the top tube slopes or not. To reduce the stack of spacers
you would need a longer head tube relative to the horizontal top tube
length, and the standard geometries of the sloping tube bikes I've
looked at mostly don't provide this.

Personally I don't care much about the slope of the top tube, nor
the height of the stack of spacers (except that the latter is limited
if the steerer isn't steel). I just don't think that the standard
geometry of most sloping top tube bikes is designed to achieve want
you want.

Dennis Ferguson- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Dennis, how do you like your Gunnar Sport? I'm considering purchasing
one in the future.

Smokey

On 2007-09-24, wrote:
Dennis, how do you like your Gunnar Sport? I'm considering purchasing
one in the future.

I can recommend it. It is the bike I commute on in California so, these
days, it gets more mileage than my other bicycles.

I do have a list of tiny things I wish were different on the bike:

- The pump peg is too fat, and too low on the headtube, to be useful
for the frame-fit pumps I have.

- Fenders fit best on a bike with standard reach calipers if the
brake pads are close to the bottom of the slot. On my Gunnar
they are about half way up, which makes it a bit tight under there.

- There's only one eyelet on each rear dropout, which means if you
mount both a rack and a fender it is hard to do it in a way which
lets you remove either without effecting the other (this is probably
only a problem of my own making; I have both, but I like to
remove them if I won't be needing them).

- I wish the hole in the chainstay bridge was threaded.

I actually went to the shop with the intention of buying a bike with
a Soma frame, but the Gunnar was on sale and it looked so pretty
that I let the salesperson up-sell me.

Dennis Ferguson

On Sep 24, 8:13 pm, Dennis Ferguson wrote:
On 2007-09-24, wrote:

Dennis, how do you like your Gunnar Sport? I'm considering purchasing
one in the future.

I can recommend it. It is the bike I commute on in California so, these
days, it gets more mileage than my other bicycles.

I do have a list of tiny things I wish were different on the bike:

- The pump peg is too fat, and too low on the headtube, to be useful
for the frame-fit pumps I have.

- Fenders fit best on a bike with standard reach calipers if the
brake pads are close to the bottom of the slot. On my Gunnar
they are about half way up, which makes it a bit tight under there.

Dopey! I didn't notice that the last time I checked one out. It's off
my personal wanna list then, unless you can sincerely get a 28mm tire
and a 35mm mudguard in there at the same time.

Sparky wrote:

At $836, it's not too bad a deal. It's way over priced at the $1099
rei wants. The front derailleur is shimano 2200, really low end. It
also comes with a steel fork, and the schwinn has a carbon fiber.

One more reason to get the Novara.

In article .com,
rdclark wrote:

On Sep 24, 12:08 am, Sparky wrote:
In article





wrote:
Sparky wrote:
It's not my first road bike. My first one was run over by a pickup
truck when it hit me. I was young and stupid, and riding on the
wrong side of the road. The driver was looking to his left as he
pulled out of a parking lot and made a right turn and ran me down.
Scary, I had to hold onto the bumper and grill as he dragged me and
the bike into the street. Thank goodness lots of people were honking
their horns, as he was an oblivious SOB.
I'd wait for an REI sale or coupon. They often send out 20% off
coupons for one item, and while it excludes most bicycles, it doesn't
usually exclude Novara bicycles. Add that to their 5% Visa rebate,
and it's down to $836 versus $700.
In any case, you said $1000, so that's why I came up with the best
$1000 bicycle I could find. Remember, you're going to have this
bicycle a long time (hopefully), so you'll forget about a $200
difference soon enough. Run like hell away from any compact frame
road bicycle.

At $836, it's not too bad a deal. It's way over priced at the $1099
rei wants. The front derailleur is shimano 2200, really low end. It
also comes with a steel fork, and the schwinn has a carbon fiber.

Do you really want a CF fork on a commuter? On an *all weather*
commuter?

A fork that can't rust on my commuter? On my *all weather* commuter?

Sold,

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos