A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

-30C Freehub lube?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old November 22nd 18, 10:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default -30C Freehub lube?

If a person is riding their bicycle in -30C (without the windchill factored in to even lower temperature) and they have some intermittent cases where the freehub freely turns once pedaling starts again after coasting; would they be advised t o remove the grease or oil inside the freehub body entirely so that that lubrication does not freeze and cause the unwanted freewheeling?

Cheers
Ads
  #2  
Old November 22nd 18, 10:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default -30C Freehub lube?

On 11/22/2018 3:14 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
If a person is riding their bicycle in -30C (without the windchill factored in to even lower temperature) and they have some intermittent cases where the freehub freely turns once pedaling starts again after coasting; would they be advised t o remove the grease or oil inside the freehub body entirely so that that lubrication does not freeze and cause the unwanted freewheeling?

Cheers


Probably not as your lubricant, even when stiff, is better
than water/ice.

Down to -70F this oughta do it:

https://www.lubriplate.com/Products/...ases/Aero.aspx

Colder than that you're on your own.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #3  
Old November 23rd 18, 04:36 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Doug Cimperman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 147
Default -30C Freehub lube?

On 11/22/2018 3:14 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
If a person is riding their bicycle in -30C (without the windchill factored in to even lower temperature) and they have some intermittent cases where the freehub freely turns once pedaling starts again after coasting; would they be advised t o remove the grease or oil inside the freehub body entirely so that that lubrication does not freeze and cause the unwanted freewheeling?

Cheers

What I've always heard is that you clean out any grease and just use oil.

If the bicycle will be stored in sub-freezing conditions, you could
clean out all the grease and oil and then just use plain teflon powder.
Being a solid powder, it cannot freeze. It does not offer any corrosion
protection from *liquid* water however, thus the always-sub-freezing
condition... (the teflon will tend to drive out any liquid lubricants,
so mixing the two doesn't really "work" like you'd think)

Get it from a piano tool source. They sell big tubs pretty cheap.
Everywhere else acts like it's gold and they charge a lot for a tiny vial.

? Some places note a minimum temperature of -100F for teflon, while
others say -328F ? Either way, let me know how it goes. I'll probably
stay home that day.

  #4  
Old November 23rd 18, 05:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default -30C Freehub lube?

On Thursday, November 22, 2018 at 10:37:03 PM UTC-5, Doug Cimperman wrote:
On 11/22/2018 3:14 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
If a person is riding their bicycle in -30C (without the windchill factored in to even lower temperature) and they have some intermittent cases where the freehub freely turns once pedaling starts again after coasting; would they be advised t o remove the grease or oil inside the freehub body entirely so that that lubrication does not freeze and cause the unwanted freewheeling?

Cheers

What I've always heard is that you clean out any grease and just use oil.

If the bicycle will be stored in sub-freezing conditions, you could
clean out all the grease and oil and then just use plain teflon powder.
Being a solid powder, it cannot freeze. It does not offer any corrosion
protection from *liquid* water however, thus the always-sub-freezing
condition... (the teflon will tend to drive out any liquid lubricants,
so mixing the two doesn't really "work" like you'd think)

Get it from a piano tool source. They sell big tubs pretty cheap.
Everywhere else acts like it's gold and they charge a lot for a tiny vial..

? Some places note a minimum temperature of -100F for teflon, while
others say -328F ? Either way, let me know how it goes. I'll probably
stay home that day.


Thanks Andrew and Doug.

Unfortunately the bicycle lives inside an apartment when not in use outside.. I think that the condensation might be part of the culprit for the intermittent freewheeling. Fortunately it goes away after a few strokes but if there's a pause in the pedaling motion such as stopping for a red light to turn green, the freewheeling might happen when the bicycle is tried to be put in motion again = not the safest thing to have happen.

Cheers
  #5  
Old November 23rd 18, 07:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,563
Default -30C Freehub lube?

On 11/22/18 10:14 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
If a person is riding their bicycle in -30C (without the windchill
factored in to even lower temperature) and they have some
intermittent cases where the freehub freely turns once pedaling
starts again after coasting; would they be advised t o remove the
grease or oil inside the freehub body entirely so that that
lubrication does not freeze and cause the unwanted freewheeling?


My guess is it isn't the oil, it's water that's freezing causing the
problem. It's happened to me in the past. Strangely, leaving it out
works better as the ice is displaced never to return, but if it warms
up, the water pools, and refreezes again. Just my guess.

  #6  
Old November 23rd 18, 08:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default -30C Freehub lube?

On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 1:09:29 AM UTC-5, Tosspot wrote:
On 11/22/18 10:14 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
If a person is riding their bicycle in -30C (without the windchill
factored in to even lower temperature) and they have some
intermittent cases where the freehub freely turns once pedaling
starts again after coasting; would they be advised t o remove the
grease or oil inside the freehub body entirely so that that
lubrication does not freeze and cause the unwanted freewheeling?


My guess is it isn't the oil, it's water that's freezing causing the
problem. It's happened to me in the past. Strangely, leaving it out
works better as the ice is displaced never to return, but if it warms
up, the water pools, and refreezes again. Just my guess.


That's what I'm thinking too and that the water you mentioned is condensation. I'd like to figure out a way to stop the freewheeling from happening as it's annoying and dangerous plus I don't want it to become a permanent thing whilst I'm 20 or 30 kilometers from home and on country/backroads that do not have public transportation.

Cheers
  #7  
Old November 23rd 18, 09:37 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 454
Default -30C Freehub lube?

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 1:09:29 AM UTC-5, Tosspot wrote:
On 11/22/18 10:14 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
If a person is riding their bicycle in -30C (without the windchill
factored in to even lower temperature) and they have some
intermittent cases where the freehub freely turns once pedaling
starts again after coasting; would they be advised t o remove the
grease or oil inside the freehub body entirely so that that
lubrication does not freeze and cause the unwanted freewheeling?


My guess is it isn't the oil, it's water that's freezing causing the
problem. It's happened to me in the past. Strangely, leaving it out
works better as the ice is displaced never to return, but if it warms
up, the water pools, and refreezes again. Just my guess.


That's what I'm thinking too and that the water you mentioned is
condensation. I'd like to figure out a way to stop the freewheeling from
happening as it's annoying and dangerous plus I don't want it to become a
permanent thing whilst I'm 20 or 30 kilometers from home and on
country/backroads that do not have public transportation.


I'd flush the freehub mechanism with light oil and apply (not stuff) a
semi-generous layer of grease at the joint where water could run from the
hub /cassette into the freehub. All done out in the cold of course, so no
condensation can occur during reassembly. Stay frosty!

BTW... which of the crazy warmies had those life-saving, carbon-neutral,
organical whale-oil driven, hub temperating hub-lamps banned -- Edison or Nader?
https://www.sterba-bike.cz/item/joseph-lucas-king-of-the-road-hub-lamp/category/lamps-archive?lang=EN
  #8  
Old November 23rd 18, 10:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,131
Default -30C Freehub lube?

On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 20:04:35 -0800, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

Unfortunately the bicycle lives inside an apartment when not in use
outside. I think that the condensation might be part of the culprit for
the intermittent freewheeling. Fortunately it goes away after a few
strokes but if there's a pause in the pedaling motion such as stopping
for a red light to turn green, the freewheeling might happen when the
bicycle is tried to be put in motion again = not the safest thing to
have happen.


YMMV, IME with the old clusters, it was a case of failing paul springs.
It was a knock about bike from scrounged/given stuff and the paul springs
were splitting longitudinally so there was a delay in opening after being
held in compression when stopped. I just put is down to lack of quality
control in yumcha manufacturing. Sticking to known brands hasn't seen it
recurr.

I suck at "track stands' so I appreciate your dilemma there.

  #9  
Old November 23rd 18, 11:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,131
Default -30C Freehub lube?

On Thu, 22 Nov 2018 23:00:37 -0800, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 1:09:29 AM UTC-5, Tosspot wrote:
On 11/22/18 10:14 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
If a person is riding their bicycle in -30C (without the windchill
factored in to even lower temperature) and they have some
intermittent cases where the freehub freely turns once pedaling
starts again after coasting; would they be advised t o remove the
grease or oil inside the freehub body entirely so that that
lubrication does not freeze and cause the unwanted freewheeling?


My guess is it isn't the oil, it's water that's freezing causing the
problem. It's happened to me in the past. Strangely, leaving it out
works better as the ice is displaced never to return, but if it warms
up, the water pools, and refreezes again. Just my guess.


That's what I'm thinking too and that the water you mentioned is
condensation. I'd like to figure out a way to stop the freewheeling from
happening as it's annoying and dangerous plus I don't want it to become
a permanent thing whilst I'm 20 or 30 kilometers from home and on
country/backroads that do not have public transportation.


So taking it from a nice warm appartment out into the freezing cold is
drawing moisture into the mechanism. Perhaps first packing the void with
grease and thus reducing the volume of air to be affected and secondly
installing some sort of "felt" filter to catch the moisture before it
reaches the mechanism.

  #10  
Old November 23rd 18, 12:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default -30C Freehub lube?

Doug told us about "teflon powder".

While researching my book on the Iditarod, a sled dog race across Alaska, I was at one stage the guest of pipeline builders inside the Arctic Circle, where it gets really cool. My laptop, an Epson PX8, sold in the States as the Epson Paris, didn't freeze first in the liquid crystal display, as I expected. Instead the case hinges froze. They had just the thing for it: a guy staggered in with a huge barrel of what I was told was graphite grease, good to any temperature in which a human can go out. It worked a treat on the hinges and they gave me a jamjar full that I used every year I went back to Alaska. My laptop survived to be given away to a favourite film producer when I upgraded to a more sophisticated laptop, and from him went to his son, a journalist, for several more years. My pilot also begged an ice-cream tub full, for the same reason Doug mentions --

Get it from a piano tool source. They sell big tubs pretty cheap.
Everywhere else acts like it's gold and they charge a lot for a tiny vial..


-- that airplane supply companies sold small units for $$$$. This so-called "graphite grease" was a pretty thin nearly runny stuff, between your fingers feeling like a fine powder with just enough thin oil to hold it; you could make small ball of it between your fingers but a larger ball would flow and try to coat everything, and it was hell to get of any surface it clung to.

Here's a more easily available and probably more economical alternative: Rohloff's hub service kit contains two oils. One is the "four seasons oil" which is good to -10C. The other is the so-called "cleaning oil", which in a 50/50 mix with the "four seasons oil" is guaranteed down to -30C. See the item "Low temperature/winter shifting issues" at
https://www.rohloff.de/en/service/handbook/faqs/
I can't find the entry now but 100% "cleaning oil" by itself used to be said to be good even lower down. I buy these oils in big tubs because I use them once a year to service my Rolloff box, but they're also sold in 25ml bottles (one bottle is 50ml in size but filled to 25ml, so the used old plus the cleaning oil can be disposed of thoughtfully). This is my dealer:
https://www.bike-components.de/en/s/...=Rohloff%20oil
There's probably also a Canadian Rohloff dealer, or you can get it off Amazon or Ebay.

Mind though, this stuff is low-temp oil, not grease, and the "cleaning oil" is very, very thin*, so Ridealot should first ascertain that his seals are in good order because one wouldn't want such expensive oil to be sloshed out before it has coated all the gubbins thoroughly. Maybe complete disassembly and component coating with a brush is called for.

Me, I wouldn't even try to cycle in such extreme temps, despite having bike transmission guaranteed to go that low.

Andre Jute
Always helpful

*Some of you may have heard that the Rohloff Speed 14 isn't actually sealed to the outside, such lightweight seals as there are being intended to keep grit out though permitting oil to "mist out"; the main misting-out mechanism is a small breather hole in the through-axle shaft. It works because the Rolloff doesn't run in a "bath of oil" like an old-fashioned car's crankshaft. Sophisticated users don't even put in the handbook's 25ml, but only about 15ml, which causes less "misting out". How does the Rohloff stay lubricated then for the 5000km service interval? Both oils stick to the gears like the proverbial to the baby's blanket, and it takes only 12ml to cover the gears completely. It works a treat.

Here's the interesting original exchange:

On Friday, November 23, 2018 at 3:37:03 AM UTC, Doug Cimperman wrote:
On 11/22/2018 3:14 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
If a person is riding their bicycle in -30C (without the windchill factored in to even lower temperature) and they have some intermittent cases where the freehub freely turns once pedaling starts again after coasting; would they be advised t o remove the grease or oil inside the freehub body entirely so that that lubrication does not freeze and cause the unwanted freewheeling?

Cheers

What I've always heard is that you clean out any grease and just use oil.

If the bicycle will be stored in sub-freezing conditions, you could
clean out all the grease and oil and then just use plain teflon powder.
Being a solid powder, it cannot freeze. It does not offer any corrosion
protection from *liquid* water however, thus the always-sub-freezing
condition... (the teflon will tend to drive out any liquid lubricants,
so mixing the two doesn't really "work" like you'd think)

Get it from a piano tool source. They sell big tubs pretty cheap.
Everywhere else acts like it's gold and they charge a lot for a tiny vial..

? Some places note a minimum temperature of -100F for teflon, while
others say -328F ? Either way, let me know how it goes. I'll probably
stay home that day.

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Recalcitrant UG freehub, lube? Joerg[_2_] Techniques 10 September 23rd 15 12:33 AM
To Lube Or Not To Lube Shifter Cables That is the Question! MykalCrooks Techniques 1 June 9th 06 06:48 AM
To Lube Or Not To Lube Shifter Cables That is the Question! Chris M Techniques 2 June 9th 06 01:30 AM
To Lube Or Not To Lube Shifter Cables That is the Question! Qui si parla Campagnolo Techniques 0 June 8th 06 09:05 PM
To Lube Or Not To Lube Shifter Cables That is the Question! [email protected] Techniques 0 June 8th 06 08:50 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.