Boris keeps the important traffic flowing

http://tinyurl.com/q9tu6c

Toby Young:-
"My five-year-old daughter's best friend was run over last week. It
happened on the pelican crossing on Uxbridge Road, opposite St
Stephen's Primary School in Shepherd's Bush.

Miguel waited until he saw a green man, crossed to the island in the
middle of the road, then carried on walking, not realising that the
green man had started flashing. He was hit by a Ford Focus travelling
at 30mph.

Luckily, he wasn't badly hurt, but it is only a matter of time before
a child is killed at this crossing. Miguel is the third child from St
Stephen's to be hit there this year.

In each case, the cause has been the same: a child has started to
cross, only to be marooned in the middle of the road when the green
man has started to flash. Like all pelican crossings, it simply
doesn't give you enough time, thanks to the Mayor's decision to reduce
the length of time all traffic lights in London stay red in the hope
of reducing congestion. Linford Christie might be able to make it but
a child doesn't stand a chance."

Third class citizens. Endanger and delay the peds so that the over-
privileged and important motorists (and the cyclists who do bother to
stop) don't get too frustrated.

On Wed, 13 May 2009, Squashme wrote:

[quoting someone else, I think]

In each case, the cause has been the same: a child has started to
cross, only to be marooned in the middle of the road when the green
man has started to flash. Like all pelican crossings, it simply
doesn't give you enough time, thanks to the Mayor's decision to reduce
the length of time all traffic lights in London stay red in the hope
of reducing congestion. Linford Christie might be able to make it but
a child doesn't stand a chance."

I don't think you can entirely blame Boris - the pedestrian phase I
use most often is so short that at my normal walking pace (as an above
averagely fit and healthy adult) I get about 80% across the road on
the green man. This is well outside Boris' sphere of control.

With my daughters accompanying me, I typically get to about the white
lines in the middle of the road.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Ian Smith wrote:

On Wed, 13 May 2009, Squashme wrote:

[quoting someone else, I think]

In each case, the cause has been the same: a child has started to
cross, only to be marooned in the middle of the road when the green
man has started to flash. Like all pelican crossings, it simply
doesn't give you enough time, thanks to the Mayor's decision to reduce
the length of time all traffic lights in London stay red in the hope
of reducing congestion. Linford Christie might be able to make it but
a child doesn't stand a chance."

I don't think you can entirely blame Boris - the pedestrian phase I
use most often is so short that at my normal walking pace (as an above
averagely fit and healthy adult) I get about 80% across the road on
the green man. This is well outside Boris' sphere of control.

With my daughters accompanying me, I typically get to about the white
lines in the middle of the road.

regards, Ian SMith

indeed which is why as a car/van/bike/on foot i like zebra crossings,
one can cross when you want and you are only their for the time it comes
to cross, and on road you don't end up waiting at lights when people
have pressed the button but given up waiting and crossed any way.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com
Capital to Coast
www.justgiving.com/rogermerriman

Ian Smith wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2009, Squashme wrote:

[quoting someone else, I think]

In each case, the cause has been the same: a child has started to
cross, only to be marooned in the middle of the road when the green
man has started to flash. Like all pelican crossings, it simply
doesn't give you enough time, thanks to the Mayor's decision to reduce
the length of time all traffic lights in London stay red in the hope
of reducing congestion. Linford Christie might be able to make it but
a child doesn't stand a chance."

I don't think you can entirely blame Boris - the pedestrian phase I
use most often is so short that at my normal walking pace (as an above
averagely fit and healthy adult) I get about 80% across the road on
the green man. This is well outside Boris' sphere of control.

With my daughters accompanying me, I typically get to about the white
lines in the middle of the road.

regards, Ian SMith


From when the green man/woman/person of indeterminite gender is lit
you've got ten second before they start flashing. At this point you have
to be ready to slap the roof of cars or kick the doors to remind them
that you are still on the crossing.
(Not done this for a while but it was frequent when my girls were
younger. Not yet been thumped for it as my rant involves the idea of
them killing my child. Nearly shoved a cyclist off once as he just
missed me and one of my girls, I wouldn't have been too concerned if
he'd ended up in hospital as he was prepared to speed across while
people were in his way.)


--

Come to Dave & Boris - your cycle security experts.

On May 14, 10:31*am, Keith T wrote:
Ian Smith wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2009, Squashme wrote:

[quoting someone else, I think]

*In each case, the cause has been the same: a child has started to
*cross, only to be marooned in the middle of the road when the green
*man has started to flash. Like all pelican crossings, it simply
*doesn't give you enough time, thanks to the Mayor's decision to reduce
*the length of time all traffic lights in London stay red in the hope
*of reducing congestion. Linford Christie might be able to make it but
*a child doesn't stand a chance."

I don't think you can entirely blame Boris - the pedestrian phase I
use most often is so short that at my normal walking pace (as an above
averagely fit and healthy adult) I get about 80% across the road on
the green man. *This is well outside Boris' sphere of control.

With my daughters accompanying me, I typically get to about the white
lines in the middle of the road.

regards, * Ian SMith

*From when the green man/woman/person of indeterminite gender is lit
you've got ten second before they start flashing. At this point you have
to be ready to slap the roof of cars or kick the doors to remind them
that you are still on the crossing.

Yep...motorists are so fundamentally selfish, reckless and unobservant
that otherwise they would run you over, either through not seeing you,
or deliberately. ******s, the lot of 'em (except me, because I'm more
entitled to drive than the hoi polloi).

(Not done this for a while but it was frequent when my girls were
younger. Not yet been thumped for it as my rant involves the idea of
them killing my child.

You sound like a joy to share the roads with. I'm sure you're not
sanctimonious towards others any more than is necessary.

Nearly shoved a cyclist off once as he just
missed me and one of my girls, I wouldn't have been too concerned if
he'd ended up in hospital as he was prepared to speed across while
people were in his way.)

I think you might be new here, in which case you should know that the
head moderator of URC, Guy Chapman, doesn't permit any criticism of
cyclists on this group. Cyclists are all perfect; motorists are all
scum. Since you didn't realise, you'll probably get away with it this
time, but don't let it become a habit.

Nuxx Bar wrote:
On May 14, 10:31 am, Keith T wrote:
Ian Smith wrote:
On Wed, 13 May 2009, Squashme wrote:
[quoting someone else, I think]
In each case, the cause has been the same: a child has started to
cross, only to be marooned in the middle of the road when the green
man has started to flash. Like all pelican crossings, it simply
doesn't give you enough time, thanks to the Mayor's decision to reduce
the length of time all traffic lights in London stay red in the hope
of reducing congestion. Linford Christie might be able to make it but
a child doesn't stand a chance."
I don't think you can entirely blame Boris - the pedestrian phase I
use most often is so short that at my normal walking pace (as an above
averagely fit and healthy adult) I get about 80% across the road on
the green man. This is well outside Boris' sphere of control.
With my daughters accompanying me, I typically get to about the white
lines in the middle of the road.
regards, Ian SMith
From when the green man/woman/person of indeterminite gender is lit
you've got ten second before they start flashing. At this point you have
to be ready to slap the roof of cars or kick the doors to remind them
that you are still on the crossing.

Yep...motorists are so fundamentally selfish, reckless and unobservant
that otherwise they would run you over, either through not seeing you,
or deliberately. ******s, the lot of 'em (except me, because I'm more
entitled to drive than the hoi polloi).


If I'm on a crossing I won't have judged it carefully it so I can be
offended at the behaviour of drivers and others. I don't play that game.
I've seen all the road safety stuff from Darth Vader to hedgehogs, not
only that I give them plenty of time to stop without activating thier
airbags.

(Not done this for a while but it was frequent when my girls were
younger. Not yet been thumped for it as my rant involves the idea of
them killing my child.

You sound like a joy to share the roads with. I'm sure you're not
sanctimonious towards others any more than is necessary.

Surpisingly enough, I'm a bit too generous usually - according to other
drivers and cyclists - I realise I share the roads (and pavements) with
others and know that it is often better to wait than forge ahead
regardless. Over 25 years of cycle commuting in London hasn't left me
bitter and twisted. I even find it relaxing at times. Bus drivers and
black cab drivers (for the pedants, that's the vehicle, not the
licensee) often recognise that the cyclist is actually letting them out
or had dropped back a bit to give them room. This is frequently paid
back 50 metres further up the road where they make a bit of space for
me, usually the slight reduction in speed that allows me to get past
instead of firmly plugging a gap.
I've always approached cycling with a recognition of how the other road
users are likely to behave - as a driver and pedestrian myself, I've had
a bit of practice. I don't see others as adversaries but as part of the
traffic, we're all road users, same Highway Code.


Nearly shoved a cyclist off once as he just
missed me and one of my girls, I wouldn't have been too concerned if
he'd ended up in hospital as he was prepared to speed across while
people were in his way.)

I think you might be new here, in which case you should know that the
head moderator of URC, Guy Chapman, doesn't permit any criticism of
cyclists on this group. Cyclists are all perfect; motorists are all
scum. Since you didn't realise, you'll probably get away with it this
time, but don't let it become a habit.

The cyclist in me is glad it doesn't need any training or test or
license to ride and that my bike doesn't need an MOT test, the driver in
me wonders if some of these cyclists should be ever in charge of any
vehicle and wouldn't a bit of mandatory awareness training be useful.Oh
********, I believe in equality, I also believe in calling a stupid ****
a stupid ****, it's one of the drawbacks of equality that's missed.
I could help out by ranting about cars with fish on the back of them as
thier safe conduct appears to be through divine intervention while
racking up a body-count around them. I won't help by recounting watching
a cyclist trying to pedal with almost flat tyres - wobble all over the
road, then brake -- wobble all over the road. Same cyclist got to
traffic lights, sat well over the white line (placed vack as then local
buses need to turn the corner) and promptly fell off the bike when the
lights turned green as one of the flip-flops had slipped off the pedal.
The drivers behind were apitient and waited for the cyclist to remount,
no beeping or revving of engines. Should the cyclist have fallen off and
got thier head squashed (I've seen it, it's not nice) it would most
likely have been the fault of the drivers.

New to this list, not new to ng's.
Cyclists are people, cyclists are part of the traffic.
We may have been on tarmac first but it's a priviledged position - no
license, no insurance, no road tax, no MOT. If cyclists can't learn to
interact with the rest of humanity then they get picked off one at a
time, ask Dawkins.


And yes, I have been knocked off my bike a few times.
And no, no points on my license.
And 38 minutes North London to Waterloo, rush hour, obeying all the
Highway Code and not ****ing others off.



--

Come to Dave & Boris - your cycle security experts.

On Wed, 13 May 2009 13:59:32 -0700 (PDT), Squashme
wrote:



http://tinyurl.com/q9tu6c

Toby Young:-
"My five-year-old daughter's best friend was run over last week. It
happened on the pelican crossing on Uxbridge Road, opposite St
Stephen's Primary School in Shepherd's Bush.

Miguel waited until he saw a green man, crossed to the island in the
middle of the road, then carried on walking, not realising that the
green man had started flashing. He was hit by a Ford Focus travelling
at 30mph.

Luckily, he wasn't badly hurt, but it is only a matter of time before
a child is killed at this crossing. Miguel is the third child from St
Stephen's to be hit there this year.

In each case, the cause has been the same: a child has started to
cross, only to be marooned in the middle of the road when the green
man has started to flash. Like all pelican crossings, it simply
doesn't give you enough time, thanks to the Mayor's decision to reduce
the length of time all traffic lights in London stay red in the hope
of reducing congestion. Linford Christie might be able to make it but
a child doesn't stand a chance."

Third class citizens. Endanger and delay the peds so that the over-
privileged and important motorists (and the cyclists who do bother to
stop) don't get too frustrated.


Sounds to me like he had crossed to the island on one green light -
and then crossed the second carriageway - probably even on a red (for
him)

How old was the child? - perhaps 5 - the same as his friend.

Should he have been crossing a main road on his own at that age?

I blame the parents. - he should have been taught how to cross the
road.

Odd that a child was hit on a pelican crossing by a car doing thirty
and the only paper it made was the Evening Standard.


--

"Primary position" the middle of a traffic lane. To take the "primary position" : to ride a bike in the middle of the lane in order to obstruct other road vehicles from overtaking.

A term invented by and used by psycholists and not recognised in the Highway Code.

Highway Code Rule 168 : "Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass."

In ,
Judith Smith tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

Sounds to me like he had crossed to the island on one green light -
and then crossed the second carriageway - probably even on a red (for
him)

Which part of "marooned in the middle of the road when the green man has
started to flash" suggests that the children in question were starting to
cross on a red light?

--
Dave Larrington
http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk
Unloading, please wait.

Dave Larrington wrote:
In ,
Judith Smith tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

Sounds to me like he had crossed to the island on one green light -
and then crossed the second carriageway - probably even on a red (for
him)

Which part of "marooned in the middle of the road when the green man has
started to flash" suggests that the children in question were starting to
cross on a red light?

Not only that but it's probably irrelevant: if the two parts of the
crossing are in-line then they count as one crossing (staggered
crossings count separately). Traffic on the far side is required to
wait until pedestrians have crossed both parts of the crossing
irrespective of whether the lights change before they have made it
half way across.

Highway Code:

196
Signal-controlled crossings

Pelican crossings. These are signal-controlled crossings where
flashing amber follows the red ‘Stop’ light. You MUST stop when the
red light shows. When the amber light is flashing, you MUST give way
to any pedestrians on the crossing. If the amber light is flashing and
there are no pedestrians on the crossing, you may proceed with
caution.

[Laws ZPPPCRGD regs 23 & 26 & RTRA sect 25(5)]

197

Pelican crossings which go straight across the road are one crossing,
even when there is a central island. You MUST wait for pedestrians who
are crossing from the other side of the island.

[Laws ZPPPCRGD reg 26 & RTRA sect 25(5)]

198

Give way to anyone still crossing after the signal for vehicles has
changed to green. This advice applies to all crossings.

Phil

--
http://www.kantaka.co.uk/ .oOo. public key: http://www.kantaka.co.uk/gpg.txt

Phil Armstrong wrote:
Dave Larrington wrote:
In ,
Judith Smith tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

Sounds to me like he had crossed to the island on one green light -
and then crossed the second carriageway - probably even on a red (for
him)
Which part of "marooned in the middle of the road when the green man has
started to flash" suggests that the children in question were starting to
cross on a red light?

Not only that but it's probably irrelevant: if the two parts of the
crossing are in-line then they count as one crossing (staggered
crossings count separately). Traffic on the far side is required to
wait until pedestrians have crossed both parts of the crossing
irrespective of whether the lights change before they have made it
half way across.

Highway Code:

196
Signal-controlled crossings

Pelican crossings. These are signal-controlled crossings where
flashing amber follows the red ‘Stop’ light. You MUST stop when the
red light shows. When the amber light is flashing, you MUST give way
to any pedestrians on the crossing. If the amber light is flashing and
there are no pedestrians on the crossing, you may proceed with
caution.

[Laws ZPPPCRGD regs 23 & 26 & RTRA sect 25(5)]

197

Pelican crossings which go straight across the road are one crossing,
even when there is a central island. You MUST wait for pedestrians who
are crossing from the other side of the island.

[Laws ZPPPCRGD reg 26 & RTRA sect 25(5)]

198

Give way to anyone still crossing after the signal for vehicles has
changed to green. This advice applies to all crossings.

Phil

Look like the sensible thing would be to remove the island as it is
causing confusion.

Paul

--
CTC Right to Ride Rep. for Richmond upon Thames