BROL VS. TEAM VELOKRAFT AND THE NOCOM .... VERY LONG POST

The following discussion is pertinent to this newsgroup simply because
it falsely accuses NoCom owners with unfounded innuendo's.

A little preface to the entire discussion is needed. Team Velokraft
has a website dedicated to this years RAAM attempt. One of their
riders posted on their site a goal of their team, "Our team
objective will be to set an un faired trans-continental record and
beat Team Capital Bashetta / Aero and JIM. Conditions permitting, we
are hoping for a sub - 6 day continental crossing."

This statement is the source of the BROLIES concerns. Read below the
numerous posts from BROL "hpv racing" board. I have cut out the
unnecessary ID information and have interspersed the data with my
remarks in CAPS prefacing each post.

Thanks for reading this long post, it is certainly enlightening.

Ed Gin

************************************************** ******

JIM VERHUEL STARTS IT OFF INSINUATING A HACKING HAS OCCURED.....

Check out our updated web site at http://www.jdrf-velokraft.com

John,
It looks like someone my have hacked your site.
JV
TEAM BACCHETTA
Bacchetta Bikes

DORKUS, ANOTHER BROLIE JOINS THE CONCERN.....

I was waiting for someone to notice that. . .
Dorkus

JIM VERHUEL STARTS THE WITCH HUNT TO FIND THE CULPRIT.....

I just had a conversation with Dana. He saw the site before and after
the inflamatory content. We both believe it was hacked. Now its time
to speculate who.
JV

DANA, A NOCOM DISTRIBUTOR FINDS SOLICE IN THEIR CONCERNS.....

I can tell you that a couple days ago, the second half of the first
sentence on the opening page (in BOLD) was not the

"Our team objective will be to set an un faired trans-continental
record and beat Team Capital Bashetta / Aero and JIM. Conditions
permitting, we are hoping for a sub - 6 day continental crossing."

I think it's a real pity that any recumbent rider would do this to
this team. This team is quite busy trying to train, raise money, and
get ready for RAAM. The last thing they have time for is to fix
this... Also, current and potential sponsors review this site, so
whoever did this could be damaging the team's relationships with their
sponsors, and jeopardizing the much-needed funding to make this race a
success.

I am guessing it had to be a recumbent rider, probably someone who
lurks in or participates in this forum, as I'm not sure how many
outside this group would know who JIM is. Whoever you are, fix it.
Don't make a group of dedicated, busy people clean up after your bad
attempt at humor.
__________________
Dana Lieberman

JEFF WILLS, ANOTHER PROMINENT BROLIE GIVES HIS 2 CENTS OF ADVICE TO
CAPTURE THE CULPRIT.....

Dana-
Talk to the website host- they should log any downloads and uploads
that have occured on the site. Also notify the website's creator- if
someone's hacked the site, their security has been breached and they
need to take measures to counteract this. At very least, passwords
need to be changed.
Jeff

FINALLY BRYAN BALL, THE OMNIPOTENT LEADER OF BROL EXCLAIMS.....

I would like to say that I'm shocked by this but I'm not. This is
becoming typical fair lately. Some people seem to have just picked
this bike and decided to ruin anything associated with it by
"promoting" it to death. Our little niche is too small for this
schoolyard crap.
Bryan J. Ball
Managing Editor

DORKUS FURTHER ADDS THAT THE CULPRIT MAY BE "MONKEY BUSINESS!".....

Dana,
That verbiage was there when I first checked the site a few days ago
just after starting this thread. I then later noticed that the bios
were corrected and the site was updated, but the offending verbiage
you mentioned was not changed, so it may actually have been there all
along, but it was not noticed by anybody. Check with your webmaster
before you conclude that you were hacked. Since JV took himself off
the RAAM roster some time ago, this may have been around for awhile.
It does seem like a bit of "monkey business" though.

DANA REVEALS THE TRUTH THE CULPRIT WAS ONE OF THEIR RIDERS AND THE
SITE WAS NOT HACKED.....

Yes, I spoke with the website designer before my last post. I received
a vague answer that seemed to say that they had not put it there.
Thus, my post.

I spoke with them again today, and found out that the site was not
hacked. Apparently, the team was screwing around with some text, and
it accidentally got put on the site by the webmaster.

I'm so happy when I'm wrong about these things...restores my faith in
the human spirit...

Dana Lieberman

JIM VERHUEL IN TYPICAL FASHION AVOIDS HIS ERRORS AND POST A WEASLY
RESPONSE STILL PRAYING THE SITE WAS HACKED.....

Several friends and I felt a lot more comfortable thinking it was
hacked.
Sad,
JV

BRYAN BALL ALSO BURIES HIS HEAD IN THE SAND DENYING HIS ERRORS AND
JOINS JV'S CHICKEN **** RESPONSE.....

I'm with JV. I would have rather heard it was hacked.
__________________
Bryan J. Ball
Managing Editor
'BentRider Online

FINALLY ED GIN REPLIES WITH A SERIOUS INQUIRY.....

Dana,

Having been appalled regarding this statement from the JD Velokraft
site:

"Our team objective will be to set an un faired trans-continental
record and beat Team Capital Bashetta / Aero and JIM. Conditions
permitting, we are hoping for a sub - 6 day continental crossing."

And upon contact with the webmaster discovering it WAS written by a JD
member and not hacked, explain to me how it is OK now, since that
statement still resides on their site? I'd imagine a constructive
inquiry would have been directed to remove or alter the quote to YOUR
satisfaction.

It appears clear to me, you and other BROL member's accusations were
hasty to say the least, and the use of "hacked" with more specific
guessing as to the source "Monkey Business," incorrect and unfounded.

Ed Gin

DANA DOESN'T ANSWER ED'S CONCERNS.....

Ed -

Here is my quote from earlier: "I'm so happy when I'm wrong about
these things...restores my faith in the human spirit... "

I am more than capable of saying I was incorrect, and I did so here as
soon as I found out what was going on.

Also, I never stated anything about Monkey Island in any of my posts.

As to the current state of the site, I am not their webmaster and thus
I cannot make any changes to it. John obviously monitors this site and
will change it as soon as he can.
__________________
Dana Lieberman
Bent Up Cycles
7828 Balboa Blvd.
Van Nuys, CA 91406

ED CORRECTS DANA AND NAMES THE BROLIE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FALSE
ACCUSATIONS........DORKUS THE NUMBNUT......

Yes Dana,

You are capable and apologized unlike others in their false
assumptions. And if you would've read more carefully I stated it was
"others" pointing the souce as "monkey business," specifically Dorkus.

Now here is some really funny stuff, Dorkus hosts the only MONKY
ISLAND SITE ON THE NET! See the below link:

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/MonkyIsland/

PERHAPS HE WAS THE SOURCE OF YOUR CONCERNS????

Ed Gin

JV AVOIDS HIS EMBARASSMENT STARTING A "BROLIE WITCH HUNT" WITH SOME
NONSENSE.....

That is interestingly defensive Ed. No one publically acussed or
speculated the source of the monkey business.
JV

ED REPLIES AND SETS THE RECORD STRAIGHT.....

JV,

Not defensive in any context. BROL and it's members went on a witch
Hunt to find out the source of a very, very sutle "race trashtalking"
statement. And finding out THEY WERE ALL WRONG in their assertions and
innuendo's, you and Bryan reverted to justifying it with the lame
response, "Several friends and I felt a lot more comfortable thinking
it was hacked."

The simple fact remains, you guys all jumped the gun and shot
yourselves in the ass.

Perhaps next time you read in others sites and message boards
statements not kosher with BROL guidelines you won't be so quick to
pull the trigger?

Ed Gin

JV FOLLOWS UP WITH MORE NONSENSE.....

Given what we think we know now, I think its time to read this again.

Originally Posted by benthead
I think it's a real pity that any recumbent rider would do this to
this team. This team is quite busy trying to train, raise money, and
get ready for RAAM. The last thing they have time for is to fix
this... Also, current and potential sponsors review this site, so
whoever did this could be damaging the team's relationships with their
sponsors, and jeopardizing the much-needed funding to make this race a
success.
JV

ED GRACIOUSLY INQUIRES.....

Please JIM,

Given what YOU MAY THINK YOU KNOW NOW?

Give me a break.....wanna "jump the gun again?"

Ed Gin

JV NOW INSINUATES IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE THE SOURCE CAME FROM BUT
OBJECTS TO THE QUOTE, SOMETHING HE SHOULD HAVE DONE IN THE
BEGINNING.....

Hi Ed,
What we think we know now is that the site was not hacked, that
representatives of the team are responsible for the content.
Dana's thoughts seem apply to whatever recumbent rider did this,
hacker or otherwise.
I think Mikael hit it on the head
JV

PIERTRO SETS THE RECORD STRAIGHT FROM THE SIDELINES AND NAMES THE
OFFENDING PARTIES......FROM BROL......AND NOTES THEIR SPINELESS METHOD
OF PASSING THE BLAME ELSEWHERE....

Much ado about next to nothing
OK, OK. One guy fools around, trying to needle the other team. It's
not at all serious but, because of some past history, it's seen by
some as a nefarious plot by "the dark side".
I'd say that this time the laugh's on those who jumped to conclusions
and are now pointing fingers in every direction but at themselves.
Piertro

MIKAEL OPENS UP A CAN OF WORMS WITH A UNSUBSTATIATED INNUENDO ED IS A
FELLOW NAMED JOHHY.....

Default Very funny, Johnny... ehm Ed
A bit of the old "teapot calling the kettle black" here.
__________________
Mikael
Velokraft Racer 2
Flevobike Alleweder

ED GIN ANSWERS MIKAEL.....

Here's the crux of the matter......Mikael,

It's odd your post has been altered eliminating the name "JOHNNY?"

Be that as it may, you and all the BROLies would be disheartened to
discover the fact JOHNNY NOCOM is not me.

Ed Gin

VICTOR KAN INQUIRES ABOUT THIS BASELESS HUNT.....

Are people upset about the possibility of an overzealous supporter
cracking a web site, or that a team's web site specifically states
their goal is to beat another team?

If the latter, forgive me for not getting it, but what's so bad about
stating publically that one of your goals in a *race* is to defeat
your competition (it would have been nice if they got the team name
right--or is that part of a perceived slight?)?

It's not as if they said they wanted to blow them off the road, or
humiliate them, or run over their puppies and kittens. They wanted to
beat them...their only competition...in a race:

http://www.raceacrossamerica.org/Default.aspx?tabid=30

ED GIN ANSWERS VICTOR.....AND ASKS FOR BRYANS CLARIFICATION.....

Victor,

I totally agree with your inquiry. Had Bachetta stated a goal to "beat
Team Velokraft/ NoCom and DANA" how in any way would this be a concern
for BROL? I'd even go out on the limb betting that IS a primary goal
beating the only other recumbent team on RAAM!

What puzzles me is Bryan's comments:

"I would like to say that I'm shocked by this but I'm not. This is
becoming typical fair lately. Some people seem to have just picked
this bike and decided to ruin anything associated with it by
"promoting" it to death. Our little niche is too small for this
schoolyard crap."

Bryan, just how "shocked" and "typical" is that statement? And how are
they "promoting it to death?"

I think the only one throwing crap in your little niche is you.

Ed Gin

BRYAN BALL RESPONDS AVOIDING THE QUESTION AT HAND.....

All I said was that it wouldn't have surprised me if it was hacked.
It's right in line with the behavior that's been shown on all of the
boards lately. And the fact that it was "accidentally" posted by one
of the team members doesn't really make me feel any better. Stating
that you want to beat your competition is fine. I don't think it
really needs to be said since there are only two teams competing in
the first place but... Picking Jim out of the crowd is a bit odd
though and not too sportsmanlike. I don't think it will be inspiring
too many sponsors to empty their pockets.

I just want these two teams to finish one-two. I don't really care
which is which. It's good for recumbents either way. Unless the team
that wins decides to act a fool...
__________________
Bryan J. Ball

ED ANSWERS BRYAN'S DECEPTIVE ANSWER......

Bryan,

It's odd you find issue with someone stating a personal objective "to
beat an opponent?" And naming a specific person makes the goal more
accurate IMO whether or not he's racing. JIM signs off with "Bachetta
Team member" so there IS some relationship with the RAAM effort as he
intends to meet them personallly in San Diego.

What is this issue dealing with behavior on other boards recently? I
thought the scope of your control and concern was within the confines
of this particular Vbulletin board.

I agree it would be nice to have the two teams finish up the
standings. How they act is their perogative and your interpretations
should be kept to yourself and left to others to judge.

Ed Gin

BRYAN AVOIDS THE REAL ISSUES AT HAND WITH DIVERSIONARY STATEMENTS.....

My "issue" is that I want to see more people out there riding
recumbents and it makes me mad when I see people acting in ways that
make recumbent riders look bad. That will always be my issue and as
long as I have a soap box to stand on, I will. That's never gonna
change. __________________
Bryan J. Ball

ED CALLS HIM ON HIS "NON RESPONSIVE" REMARK.....

Bryan,

That sounds more like a overall objective suitable for BROL. I just
can't see how challenging an opponent on a racing website makes
"recumbent riders look bad." That's never gonna change for me...........

You were the one bringing up what is "going on other boards" as a
concern, I just asked what ARE those issues? Free speech and opinion
is an inalienable right, I for one am glad it exists elsewhere,
certainly NOT on this board.

I can feel the banning cloud coming............

Ed Gin

BIG ASS CLETUS UMPS IN AND IS FUMING MAD HOPING FOR THE BAN....

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowracer
Bryan,...I can feel the banning cloud coming............

Not soon enough!
__________________
Cletus D. Lee
Bacchetta Aero-Basso
Bacchetta Giro
Lightning Voyager temporarily unavailable
- Bellaire, TX USA -

BRYAN BALL STILL AVOIDS THE TRUTH WITH NO APOLOGY BUT TRIES TO DIVERT
ATTENTION WITH SOME MENTION OF SPEED AND MONKEY'S.....

Ed,

I'm not going around and around with you about this... again... You
think that I take this stuff too seriously. Fine. I don't agree with
you. You and probably every Monkey Island rider there ever was are
faster than me. Congratulations. I honestly don't care. I'm just so
sick of all of the hostility that surrounds this bike. I just don't
get it.
__________________
Bryan J. Ball

JV IS STILL ****ED ABOUT THE STATEMENT AS IT REMAINS ON THE TEAM
VELOKRAFT SITE.....

I would be a bit more chraritable here but:
Someone representing the team wrote that.
They let it get on the site.
It would take less than a minute to remove it, but they have not.

Still sad,
__________________
JV

BRYAN BALL SHUTS OFF THE DISCUSSION HAVING HEARD HIS ARCH NEMESIS
MENTIONED.....JOHNNY NO COM.......

Well now that we're throwing around the name that shall not be spoken
I think it's time for the horrible, evil, tyrant to lock it up. I
appologize to everyone for getting involved and for letting it go on
this long.
__________________
Bryan J. Ball
Managing Editor
'BentRider Online
www.bentrideronline.com

On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 01:46:35 GMT, Ed Gin wrote
in message :

The following discussion is pertinent to this newsgroup simply because
it falsely accuses NoCom owners with unfounded innuendo's.

No it's not. It's a private spat, and posting it here invites a
further outbreak of monkeypox.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

This is ridiculous.

You need to get out and ride more.

Lewis.

********

I agree, what a fool. More ego problems then useful information from some
of these farts.


"Ed Gin" wrote in message
...
The following discussion is pertinent to this newsgroup simply because
it falsely accuses NoCom owners with unfounded innuendo's.

A little preface to the entire discussion is needed. Team Velokraft
has a website dedicated to this years RAAM attempt. One of their
riders posted on their site a goal of their team, "Our team
objective will be to set an un faired trans-continental record and
beat Team Capital Bashetta / Aero and JIM. Conditions permitting, we
are hoping for a sub - 6 day continental crossing."

This statement is the source of the BROLIES concerns. Read below the
numerous posts from BROL "hpv racing" board. I have cut out the
unnecessary ID information and have interspersed the data with my
remarks in CAPS prefacing each post.

Thanks for reading this long post, it is certainly enlightening.

Ed Gin

************************************************** ******

JIM VERHUEL STARTS IT OFF INSINUATING A HACKING HAS OCCURED.....

Check out our updated web site at http://www.jdrf-velokraft.com

John,
It looks like someone my have hacked your site.
JV
TEAM BACCHETTA
Bacchetta Bikes

DORKUS, ANOTHER BROLIE JOINS THE CONCERN.....

I was waiting for someone to notice that. . .
Dorkus

JIM VERHUEL STARTS THE WITCH HUNT TO FIND THE CULPRIT.....

I just had a conversation with Dana. He saw the site before and after
the inflamatory content. We both believe it was hacked. Now its time
to speculate who.
JV

DANA, A NOCOM DISTRIBUTOR FINDS SOLICE IN THEIR CONCERNS.....

I can tell you that a couple days ago, the second half of the first
sentence on the opening page (in BOLD) was not the

"Our team objective will be to set an un faired trans-continental
record and beat Team Capital Bashetta / Aero and JIM. Conditions
permitting, we are hoping for a sub - 6 day continental crossing."

I think it's a real pity that any recumbent rider would do this to
this team. This team is quite busy trying to train, raise money, and
get ready for RAAM. The last thing they have time for is to fix
this... Also, current and potential sponsors review this site, so
whoever did this could be damaging the team's relationships with their
sponsors, and jeopardizing the much-needed funding to make this race a
success.

I am guessing it had to be a recumbent rider, probably someone who
lurks in or participates in this forum, as I'm not sure how many
outside this group would know who JIM is. Whoever you are, fix it.
Don't make a group of dedicated, busy people clean up after your bad
attempt at humor.
__________________
Dana Lieberman

JEFF WILLS, ANOTHER PROMINENT BROLIE GIVES HIS 2 CENTS OF ADVICE TO
CAPTURE THE CULPRIT.....

Dana-
Talk to the website host- they should log any downloads and uploads
that have occured on the site. Also notify the website's creator- if
someone's hacked the site, their security has been breached and they
need to take measures to counteract this. At very least, passwords
need to be changed.
Jeff

FINALLY BRYAN BALL, THE OMNIPOTENT LEADER OF BROL EXCLAIMS.....

I would like to say that I'm shocked by this but I'm not. This is
becoming typical fair lately. Some people seem to have just picked
this bike and decided to ruin anything associated with it by
"promoting" it to death. Our little niche is too small for this
schoolyard crap.
Bryan J. Ball
Managing Editor

DORKUS FURTHER ADDS THAT THE CULPRIT MAY BE "MONKEY BUSINESS!".....

Dana,
That verbiage was there when I first checked the site a few days ago
just after starting this thread. I then later noticed that the bios
were corrected and the site was updated, but the offending verbiage
you mentioned was not changed, so it may actually have been there all
along, but it was not noticed by anybody. Check with your webmaster
before you conclude that you were hacked. Since JV took himself off
the RAAM roster some time ago, this may have been around for awhile.
It does seem like a bit of "monkey business" though.

DANA REVEALS THE TRUTH THE CULPRIT WAS ONE OF THEIR RIDERS AND THE
SITE WAS NOT HACKED.....

Yes, I spoke with the website designer before my last post. I received
a vague answer that seemed to say that they had not put it there.
Thus, my post.

I spoke with them again today, and found out that the site was not
hacked. Apparently, the team was screwing around with some text, and
it accidentally got put on the site by the webmaster.

I'm so happy when I'm wrong about these things...restores my faith in
the human spirit...

Dana Lieberman

JIM VERHUEL IN TYPICAL FASHION AVOIDS HIS ERRORS AND POST A WEASLY
RESPONSE STILL PRAYING THE SITE WAS HACKED.....

Several friends and I felt a lot more comfortable thinking it was
hacked.
Sad,
JV

BRYAN BALL ALSO BURIES HIS HEAD IN THE SAND DENYING HIS ERRORS AND
JOINS JV'S CHICKEN **** RESPONSE.....

I'm with JV. I would have rather heard it was hacked.
__________________
Bryan J. Ball
Managing Editor
'BentRider Online

FINALLY ED GIN REPLIES WITH A SERIOUS INQUIRY.....

Dana,

Having been appalled regarding this statement from the JD Velokraft
site:

"Our team objective will be to set an un faired trans-continental
record and beat Team Capital Bashetta / Aero and JIM. Conditions
permitting, we are hoping for a sub - 6 day continental crossing."

And upon contact with the webmaster discovering it WAS written by a JD
member and not hacked, explain to me how it is OK now, since that
statement still resides on their site? I'd imagine a constructive
inquiry would have been directed to remove or alter the quote to YOUR
satisfaction.

It appears clear to me, you and other BROL member's accusations were
hasty to say the least, and the use of "hacked" with more specific
guessing as to the source "Monkey Business," incorrect and unfounded.

Ed Gin

DANA DOESN'T ANSWER ED'S CONCERNS.....

Ed -

Here is my quote from earlier: "I'm so happy when I'm wrong about
these things...restores my faith in the human spirit... "

I am more than capable of saying I was incorrect, and I did so here as
soon as I found out what was going on.

Also, I never stated anything about Monkey Island in any of my posts.

As to the current state of the site, I am not their webmaster and thus
I cannot make any changes to it. John obviously monitors this site and
will change it as soon as he can.
__________________
Dana Lieberman
Bent Up Cycles
7828 Balboa Blvd.
Van Nuys, CA 91406

ED CORRECTS DANA AND NAMES THE BROLIE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FALSE
ACCUSATIONS........DORKUS THE NUMBNUT......

Yes Dana,

You are capable and apologized unlike others in their false
assumptions. And if you would've read more carefully I stated it was
"others" pointing the souce as "monkey business," specifically Dorkus.

Now here is some really funny stuff, Dorkus hosts the only MONKY
ISLAND SITE ON THE NET! See the below link:

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/MonkyIsland/

PERHAPS HE WAS THE SOURCE OF YOUR CONCERNS????

Ed Gin

JV AVOIDS HIS EMBARASSMENT STARTING A "BROLIE WITCH HUNT" WITH SOME
NONSENSE.....

That is interestingly defensive Ed. No one publically acussed or
speculated the source of the monkey business.
JV

ED REPLIES AND SETS THE RECORD STRAIGHT.....

JV,

Not defensive in any context. BROL and it's members went on a witch
Hunt to find out the source of a very, very sutle "race trashtalking"
statement. And finding out THEY WERE ALL WRONG in their assertions and
innuendo's, you and Bryan reverted to justifying it with the lame
response, "Several friends and I felt a lot more comfortable thinking
it was hacked."

The simple fact remains, you guys all jumped the gun and shot
yourselves in the ass.

Perhaps next time you read in others sites and message boards
statements not kosher with BROL guidelines you won't be so quick to
pull the trigger?

Ed Gin

JV FOLLOWS UP WITH MORE NONSENSE.....

Given what we think we know now, I think its time to read this again.

Originally Posted by benthead
I think it's a real pity that any recumbent rider would do this to
this team. This team is quite busy trying to train, raise money, and
get ready for RAAM. The last thing they have time for is to fix
this... Also, current and potential sponsors review this site, so
whoever did this could be damaging the team's relationships with their
sponsors, and jeopardizing the much-needed funding to make this race a
success.
JV

ED GRACIOUSLY INQUIRES.....

Please JIM,

Given what YOU MAY THINK YOU KNOW NOW?

Give me a break.....wanna "jump the gun again?"

Ed Gin

JV NOW INSINUATES IT DOESN'T MATTER WHERE THE SOURCE CAME FROM BUT
OBJECTS TO THE QUOTE, SOMETHING HE SHOULD HAVE DONE IN THE
BEGINNING.....

Hi Ed,
What we think we know now is that the site was not hacked, that
representatives of the team are responsible for the content.
Dana's thoughts seem apply to whatever recumbent rider did this,
hacker or otherwise.
I think Mikael hit it on the head
JV

PIERTRO SETS THE RECORD STRAIGHT FROM THE SIDELINES AND NAMES THE
OFFENDING PARTIES......FROM BROL......AND NOTES THEIR SPINELESS METHOD
OF PASSING THE BLAME ELSEWHERE....

Much ado about next to nothing
OK, OK. One guy fools around, trying to needle the other team. It's
not at all serious but, because of some past history, it's seen by
some as a nefarious plot by "the dark side".
I'd say that this time the laugh's on those who jumped to conclusions
and are now pointing fingers in every direction but at themselves.
Piertro

MIKAEL OPENS UP A CAN OF WORMS WITH A UNSUBSTATIATED INNUENDO ED IS A
FELLOW NAMED JOHHY.....

Default Very funny, Johnny... ehm Ed
A bit of the old "teapot calling the kettle black" here.
__________________
Mikael
Velokraft Racer 2
Flevobike Alleweder

ED GIN ANSWERS MIKAEL.....

Here's the crux of the matter......Mikael,

It's odd your post has been altered eliminating the name "JOHNNY?"

Be that as it may, you and all the BROLies would be disheartened to
discover the fact JOHNNY NOCOM is not me.

Ed Gin

VICTOR KAN INQUIRES ABOUT THIS BASELESS HUNT.....

Are people upset about the possibility of an overzealous supporter
cracking a web site, or that a team's web site specifically states
their goal is to beat another team?

If the latter, forgive me for not getting it, but what's so bad about
stating publically that one of your goals in a *race* is to defeat
your competition (it would have been nice if they got the team name
right--or is that part of a perceived slight?)?

It's not as if they said they wanted to blow them off the road, or
humiliate them, or run over their puppies and kittens. They wanted to
beat them...their only competition...in a race:

http://www.raceacrossamerica.org/Default.aspx?tabid=30

ED GIN ANSWERS VICTOR.....AND ASKS FOR BRYANS CLARIFICATION.....

Victor,

I totally agree with your inquiry. Had Bachetta stated a goal to "beat
Team Velokraft/ NoCom and DANA" how in any way would this be a concern
for BROL? I'd even go out on the limb betting that IS a primary goal
beating the only other recumbent team on RAAM!

What puzzles me is Bryan's comments:

"I would like to say that I'm shocked by this but I'm not. This is
becoming typical fair lately. Some people seem to have just picked
this bike and decided to ruin anything associated with it by
"promoting" it to death. Our little niche is too small for this
schoolyard crap."

Bryan, just how "shocked" and "typical" is that statement? And how are
they "promoting it to death?"

I think the only one throwing crap in your little niche is you.

Ed Gin

BRYAN BALL RESPONDS AVOIDING THE QUESTION AT HAND.....

All I said was that it wouldn't have surprised me if it was hacked.
It's right in line with the behavior that's been shown on all of the
boards lately. And the fact that it was "accidentally" posted by one
of the team members doesn't really make me feel any better. Stating
that you want to beat your competition is fine. I don't think it
really needs to be said since there are only two teams competing in
the first place but... Picking Jim out of the crowd is a bit odd
though and not too sportsmanlike. I don't think it will be inspiring
too many sponsors to empty their pockets.

I just want these two teams to finish one-two. I don't really care
which is which. It's good for recumbents either way. Unless the team
that wins decides to act a fool...
__________________
Bryan J. Ball

ED ANSWERS BRYAN'S DECEPTIVE ANSWER......

Bryan,

It's odd you find issue with someone stating a personal objective "to
beat an opponent?" And naming a specific person makes the goal more
accurate IMO whether or not he's racing. JIM signs off with "Bachetta
Team member" so there IS some relationship with the RAAM effort as he
intends to meet them personallly in San Diego.

What is this issue dealing with behavior on other boards recently? I
thought the scope of your control and concern was within the confines
of this particular Vbulletin board.

I agree it would be nice to have the two teams finish up the
standings. How they act is their perogative and your interpretations
should be kept to yourself and left to others to judge.

Ed Gin

BRYAN AVOIDS THE REAL ISSUES AT HAND WITH DIVERSIONARY STATEMENTS.....

My "issue" is that I want to see more people out there riding
recumbents and it makes me mad when I see people acting in ways that
make recumbent riders look bad. That will always be my issue and as
long as I have a soap box to stand on, I will. That's never gonna
change. __________________
Bryan J. Ball

ED CALLS HIM ON HIS "NON RESPONSIVE" REMARK.....

Bryan,

That sounds more like a overall objective suitable for BROL. I just
can't see how challenging an opponent on a racing website makes
"recumbent riders look bad." That's never gonna change for me...........

You were the one bringing up what is "going on other boards" as a
concern, I just asked what ARE those issues? Free speech and opinion
is an inalienable right, I for one am glad it exists elsewhere,
certainly NOT on this board.

I can feel the banning cloud coming............

Ed Gin

BIG ASS CLETUS UMPS IN AND IS FUMING MAD HOPING FOR THE BAN....

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowracer
Bryan,...I can feel the banning cloud coming............

Not soon enough!
__________________
Cletus D. Lee
Bacchetta Aero-Basso
Bacchetta Giro
Lightning Voyager temporarily unavailable
- Bellaire, TX USA -

BRYAN BALL STILL AVOIDS THE TRUTH WITH NO APOLOGY BUT TRIES TO DIVERT
ATTENTION WITH SOME MENTION OF SPEED AND MONKEY'S.....

Ed,

I'm not going around and around with you about this... again... You
think that I take this stuff too seriously. Fine. I don't agree with
you. You and probably every Monkey Island rider there ever was are
faster than me. Congratulations. I honestly don't care. I'm just so
sick of all of the hostility that surrounds this bike. I just don't
get it.
__________________
Bryan J. Ball

JV IS STILL ****ED ABOUT THE STATEMENT AS IT REMAINS ON THE TEAM
VELOKRAFT SITE.....

I would be a bit more chraritable here but:
Someone representing the team wrote that.
They let it get on the site.
It would take less than a minute to remove it, but they have not.

Still sad,
__________________
JV

BRYAN BALL SHUTS OFF THE DISCUSSION HAVING HEARD HIS ARCH NEMESIS
MENTIONED.....JOHNNY NO COM.......

Well now that we're throwing around the name that shall not be spoken
I think it's time for the horrible, evil, tyrant to lock it up. I
appologize to everyone for getting involved and for letting it go on
this long.
__________________
Bryan J. Ball
Managing Editor
'BentRider Online
www.bentrideronline.com