Hydrate or Die... or

Absent Husband wrote:
Lat tmonth, when I went to buy some Potassium tablets (use them
occasionally on loooong rides for cramps and 'salt' replacement) - the
consulting naturopath (who happened to be at the pharmacy at the time),
asked me what they were for.

When I told her, she told me to buy magnesium tablets instead. She said
that all the research was showing that potassium had litle/no effect on
cramps, and that magnesium was proving to be the main culprit.

Took her advice and gave it a go. And am having much greater results!!
I suspect that this type of thing is very individual, but reckon that
its worth a shot for those not getting good results from there
potassium tablets (or whatever you're using)

Cheers,
Absent Husband

What he didn't tell you is that you still need the Potassium for heart
and muscle regulation. You can die from lack of Potassium, usually from
a heart attack. I don't know if coroners look for this but it is a well
known fact that doctor who prescribe diuretics for their patients with
high blood pressure also tell them to take Potassium supplements.
Bill Baka

Absent Husband wrote:

Lat tmonth, when I went to buy some Potassium tablets (use them
occasionally on loooong rides for cramps and 'salt' replacement) - the
consulting naturopath (who happened to be at the pharmacy at the time),
asked me what they were for.

When I told her, she told me to buy magnesium tablets instead. She said
that all the research was showing that potassium had litle/no effect on
cramps, and that magnesium was proving to be the main culprit.

Took her advice and gave it a go. And am having much greater results!!
I suspect that this type of thing is very individual, but reckon that
its worth a shot for those not getting good results from there
potassium tablets (or whatever you're using)


A good idea is to bave a basic blood test done, have them check mineral
levels, some people have lower levels of one or another. If one is low,
or maybe a low normal, then you might want to suppliment that when
riding, your doctor can tell you whether it's better to take a
suppliment before, during or after a ride.

If your *really* concerned about during rides, tell your doctor, maybe
get a blood draw done, go ride a century, then stop back at the lab, for
another blood draw, then run the mineral panel on both, you and your
doctor can then look at both sets of values and determine what (if
anything) you need, and how much.

W

bbaka writes:

Absent Husband wrote:
Lat tmonth, when I went to buy some Potassium tablets (use them
occasionally on loooong rides for cramps and 'salt' replacement) - the
consulting naturopath (who happened to be at the pharmacy at the time),
asked me what they were for.
When I told her, she told me to buy magnesium tablets instead. She
said
that all the research was showing that potassium had litle/no effect on
cramps, and that magnesium was proving to be the main culprit.
Took her advice and gave it a go. And am having much greater
results!!
I suspect that this type of thing is very individual, but reckon that
its worth a shot for those not getting good results from there
potassium tablets (or whatever you're using)
Cheers,
Absent Husband

What he didn't tell you is that you still need the Potassium for heart
and muscle regulation. You can die from lack of Potassium, usually
from a heart attack.

The thing is, you just don't lose that much potasium in your
sweat. Sodium losses are about 20 times the potasium losses. Partly
this is because 98% of your potasium is inside of cells. On the other
hand, about 90% of your sodium is outside of the cells. This is true
of all lifeforms on earth.

One consequense of potasium being intracellular is that any time you
eat food composed of cells you are getting potasium. This includes
any fruits, vegetables, or muscles you eat. It is not hard at all to
get plenty of potasium in your diet.

People who get their potasium down low enough to have symptoms almost
always have something else going on, such as diuretic use, prolonged
diarrhea or vommiting, certain types of kidney disease, etc.

The situation with sodium is different because the regulation of
sodium and water are intimately connected. It is easy to affect
sodium concentration by adjusting water intake.

I don't know if coroners look for this but it is
a well known fact that doctor who prescribe diuretics for their
patients with high blood pressure also tell them to take Potassium
supplements.

Pretty much if you come within ten feet of a hospital you are going to
get your potassium checked. (It's cheap too.) Some characteristic
stuff happens when potassium gets really low, a death would be hard to
miss.

You are correct, certain diuretics are the most common cause of low
potassium, but that has nothing to do with a healthy person
exercising.

JeffWills wrote:
Yup- and that's why potassium-containing IV's in hospitals are supposed
to be marked in a distinctive fashion, and full-strength IV potassium
chloride is kept away from the ER. Otherwise, bad stuff happens:
http://www.iatrogenic.org/fatalerr.html

Jeff

It's a big deal at the hospital I work at. The Joint Commission that
accredits hospitals nationwide (http://www.jcaho.org/) has very strict
rules as to where concentrated potassium can be kept in the hospital.
I've also been told concentrated potassium is used for lethal injection.

From Joint Commission website:

Medication Error Prevention -- Potassium Chloride

In the two years since the Joint Commission enacted its Sentinel Event
Policy, the Accreditation Committee of the Board of Commissioners has
reviewed more than 200 sentinel events. The most common category of
sentinel events was medication errors, and of those, the most frequently
implicated drug was potassium chloride (KCl). The Joint Commission has
reviewed 10 incidents of patient death resulting from misadministration
of KCl, eight of which were the result of direct infusion of
concentrated KCl. In all cases, a contributing factor identified was
the availability of concentrated KCl on the nursing unit. In six of the
eight cases, the KCl was mistaken for some other medication, primarily
due to similarities in packaging and labeling. Most often, KCl was
mistaken for sodium chloride, heparin or furosemide (Lasix).

Issue For Consideration: In light of this experience, the Joint
Commission suggests that health care organizations NOT make concentrated
KCl available outside of the pharmacy unless appropriate specific
safeguards are in place.


--

Let the bridges I burn light my way...

wrote:
Peter Cole wrote:

V-8 is the distance rider's resuscitation drink. It's probably the
highest saline solution that's drinkable (subjective). A salt-rich
meal
might be: V-8, doritos and a turkey sandwich (turkey is also loaded
with potassium, although potassium depletion isn't an issue). Fast
food
french fries are also a great source of salt (& potassium) but most
can't tolerate the grease when riding hard.

What's interesting to me is that my cravings during hot, humid, hard
rides seem to be sodium and potassium foods. I didn't know french
fries had any potassium, but I know they taste wonderful to me in
those
conditions.

How about Pringles potato chips? That's something else that I seem
to
crave. And beer, of course. And, as mentioned, orange juice with
salt
mixed into it.

From my table, it looks like 1 serving of Pringles has 100% RDA for
Potassium, so does 32 fl oz of OJ, or a pound or so of bananas.

While we're at it, I wonder what foods are rich in magnesium. I'd be
interested to know if I crave those.

Watermelon, almonds, chocolate, sunflower seeds...

Funny thing about beer. I was doing a 400K (250 mi) ride, and all I
could think of for the last several hours was a cold beer. I called my
wife and begged her to bring a cold one (or 2) to the finish. When I
got there I couldn't wait for it, but it was the worst tasting beer I
think I've ever had, couldn't finish a single bottle. Same beer tasted
fine the next day.

Roger Zoul wrote:

Thanks for the info....I had big problems with cramps on two rides
last year and ended up in the sag wagon. So, I'm going to try the
magnesium this time.

Try Tums/Rolaids/whatever. You can get them in almost any convenience store,
even in the middle of nowhere.

Matt O.

Peter Cole wrote:

Matt O'Toole wrote:

I'm a V-8 drinker too. Call me un-American, but I hate soft drinks,
and most "juice" drinks aren't much better. V-8 is the only thing
I'll drink that's available in most convenience stores. It seems to
do the trick with salt depletion too.

V-8 is the distance rider's resuscitation drink. It's probably the
highest saline solution that's drinkable (subjective). A salt-rich
meal might be: V-8, doritos and a turkey sandwich (turkey is also
loaded with potassium, although potassium depletion isn't an issue).
Fast food french fries are also a great source of salt (& potassium)
but most can't tolerate the grease when riding hard.

Well, V8, pretzels, and turkey sandwiches are definately some of my staples.

Last year we had Hammergel as a sponsor for our big club ride. We
got free samples of their electrolyte capsules. As a believer in
real food vs. artificial yuppie power food, I had never tried such a
thing. It sat around for months, but I tried it one day when I was
feeling really bad. Well, the stuff is like magic. I felt much
better, instantly. So I bought some more. I use it occasionally
when I feel sick or overtired. It's great stuff. I recommend it.

Their listed ingredients don't sound too magical. I just make up my
own capsules 2/3 table salt, 1/3 bicarb. I've found that salt
depletion isn't a problem until after 8-10 hr or so of hot, hard
riding, an observation that squares with the theory given the amount
of sodium reserves and sweat loss rate. The ingredients for Hammergel
Electrolytes:

Sodium Chloride 100 mg.
Calcium (Chelate) 50 mg.
Magnesium (Chelate) 25 mg.
Potassium (Chelate) 25 mg.
Vitamin B-6 (Pyrodoxine HCL) 6.6 mg.
Manganese (Chelate) 1.6 mg.
L-Tyrosine 50 mg.

It looks like you can get all that in Tums or whatever. Someone told me the
B-vitamins in Hammergel are what makes the difference.

Matt O.

Matt O'Toole wrote:
Peter Cole wrote:


Sodium Chloride 100 mg.
Calcium (Chelate) 50 mg.
Magnesium (Chelate) 25 mg.
Potassium (Chelate) 25 mg.
Vitamin B-6 (Pyrodoxine HCL) 6.6 mg.
Manganese (Chelate) 1.6 mg.
L-Tyrosine 50 mg.

It looks like you can get all that in Tums or whatever. Someone told
me the
B-vitamins in Hammergel are what makes the difference.

Well, it's about 5x the RDA for B-6. I don't know what the science is
supposed to be, people have been hustling B-vitamins for decades as a
cure-all for fatigue. I think it's BS. You do need the salt if you
sweat enough to blow through your 8 gr nominal (sodium) reserve. My
home-made capsules are about 1 g of salt (400 mg sodium), and I take
one every couple of hours after I get to the point where I start to
lose my thirst (8-10 hr, typically of hot, hard riding). Those
Hammergel caps, like Gatorade, just wouldn't do much for me. Heck, 12
fl oz of V-8 is 1 g of sodium (2.5 g salt).

Roger Zoul wrote:
Absent Husband wrote:
:: Lat tmonth, when I went to buy some Potassium tablets (use them
:: occasionally on loooong rides for cramps and 'salt' replacement) -
:: the consulting naturopath (who happened to be at the pharmacy at
the
:: time), asked me what they were for.
::
:: When I told her, she told me to buy magnesium tablets instead. She
:: said that all the research was showing that potassium had litle/no
:: effect on cramps, and that magnesium was proving to be the main
:: culprit.
::
:: Took her advice and gave it a go. And am having much greater
:: results!! I suspect that this type of thing is very individual,
but
:: reckon that its worth a shot for those not getting good results
from
:: there potassium tablets (or whatever you're using)

Thanks for the info....I had big problems with cramps on two rides
last year
and ended up in the sag wagon. So, I'm going to try the magnesium
this
time.

Some people say potassium, some say calcium, now it's magnesium. You
have to diferentiate between "medical" cramps (which may be an ion
imbalance) and "exercise induced cramps". EIC is purely the result of
fatigue. There's no magic pill or food. You can only train for
endurance. The harder you push muscles, the faster you accumulate
fatigue. You can get the most out of your current level of fitness by
keeping your muscular level of effort very uniform. For most people
that means not getting carried away and going out too fast and backing
off to a comfortable pace during climbs. A HRM can be useful to keep an
eye on your average effort level and help to pace yourself.

Jim Smith wrote:
bbaka writes:


Absent Husband wrote:

Lat tmonth, when I went to buy some Potassium tablets (use them
occasionally on loooong rides for cramps and 'salt' replacement) - the
consulting naturopath (who happened to be at the pharmacy at the time),
asked me what they were for.
When I told her, she told me to buy magnesium tablets instead. She
said
that all the research was showing that potassium had litle/no effect on
cramps, and that magnesium was proving to be the main culprit.
Took her advice and gave it a go. And am having much greater
results!!
I suspect that this type of thing is very individual, but reckon that
its worth a shot for those not getting good results from there
potassium tablets (or whatever you're using)
Cheers,
Absent Husband


What he didn't tell you is that you still need the Potassium for heart
and muscle regulation. You can die from lack of Potassium, usually
from a heart attack.


The thing is, you just don't lose that much potasium in your
sweat. Sodium losses are about 20 times the potasium losses. Partly
this is because 98% of your potasium is inside of cells. On the other
hand, about 90% of your sodium is outside of the cells. This is true
of all lifeforms on earth.

One consequense of potasium being intracellular is that any time you
eat food composed of cells you are getting potasium. This includes
any fruits, vegetables, or muscles you eat. It is not hard at all to
get plenty of potasium in your diet.

People who get their potasium down low enough to have symptoms almost
always have something else going on, such as diuretic use, prolonged
diarrhea or vommiting, certain types of kidney disease, etc.

The situation with sodium is different because the regulation of
sodium and water are intimately connected. It is easy to affect
sodium concentration by adjusting water intake.


I don't know if coroners look for this but it is
a well known fact that doctor who prescribe diuretics for their
patients with high blood pressure also tell them to take Potassium
supplements.


Pretty much if you come within ten feet of a hospital you are going to
get your potassium checked. (It's cheap too.) Some characteristic
stuff happens when potassium gets really low, a death would be hard to
miss.

You are correct, certain diuretics are the most common cause of low
potassium, but that has nothing to do with a healthy person
exercising.

I only put that in there as a maybe, since some people must be
exercising to lose both weight and high blood pressure. I am borderline
myself at 130/90 so I only sometimes take Atenolol/Tenormin which lowers
BP by about 10 points but also put my pulse down that much, a side
effect I don't mind while relaxing.
Caution with all meds, vitamins, and foods.
Bill Baka