It's not science until Pope Urban VIII says so

On 5/8/2020 3:26 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 8 May 2020 16:15:01 UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 5/8/2020 1:06 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
sms wrote:
On 5/8/2020 9:01 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

However, COVID-19 orders are not laws; they have not gone through the
legislative process. There were no public hearings, notice and comment,
etc., etc. They are executive orders and can be as whimsical as the
executive, subject to state law limiting his or her emergency powers.

In my city, I asked the City Manager to order face coverings. While she
had the power to issue a face covering order under her emergency powers,
she asked me to put it on the City Council agenda and the City Council
voted to implement it, 4-1. So it did go through the legislative
process.

Inside every foam hatter lies a tyrant in waiting.

Hopefully you're being sarcastic.

Some people do confuse the definitions of quarantine and tyranny.

Quarantine is when the government restricts the movement of people to
keep the population safe. Tyranny is when the government restricts the
movement of people to maintain control.

Maybe so but a lot of people are s]asking if this strict self-quarnatine and/or social distancing is really needed never mind what it's doing to peoples' finances and to the economy in general.

There's been a LOT of double-speak from politicians since this Covid-`9 thing broke. A lot of people now are very skeptical of everything and anything any politician says about it.

Cheers



Did you say double-speak? We're on our way to Newspeak!

https://kprcradio.iheart.com/feature...e-hate-speech/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Friday, 8 May 2020 18:17:56 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/8/2020 3:26 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 8 May 2020 16:15:01 UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 5/8/2020 1:06 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
sms wrote:
On 5/8/2020 9:01 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

However, COVID-19 orders are not laws; they have not gone through the
legislative process. There were no public hearings, notice and comment,
etc., etc. They are executive orders and can be as whimsical as the
executive, subject to state law limiting his or her emergency powers.

In my city, I asked the City Manager to order face coverings. While she
had the power to issue a face covering order under her emergency powers,
she asked me to put it on the City Council agenda and the City Council
voted to implement it, 4-1. So it did go through the legislative
process.

Inside every foam hatter lies a tyrant in waiting.

Hopefully you're being sarcastic.

Some people do confuse the definitions of quarantine and tyranny.

Quarantine is when the government restricts the movement of people to
keep the population safe. Tyranny is when the government restricts the
movement of people to maintain control.

Maybe so but a lot of people are s]asking if this strict self-quarnatine and/or social distancing is really needed never mind what it's doing to peoples' finances and to the economy in general.

There's been a LOT of double-speak from politicians since this Covid-`9 thing broke. A lot of people now are very skeptical of everything and anything any politician says about it.

Cheers



Did you say double-speak? We're on our way to Newspeak!

https://kprcradio.iheart.com/feature...e-hate-speech/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

It's both actually.

Cheers

On Friday, 8 May 2020 18:17:56 UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/8/2020 3:26 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 8 May 2020 16:15:01 UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 5/8/2020 1:06 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
sms wrote:
On 5/8/2020 9:01 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

However, COVID-19 orders are not laws; they have not gone through the
legislative process. There were no public hearings, notice and comment,
etc., etc. They are executive orders and can be as whimsical as the
executive, subject to state law limiting his or her emergency powers.

In my city, I asked the City Manager to order face coverings. While she
had the power to issue a face covering order under her emergency powers,
she asked me to put it on the City Council agenda and the City Council
voted to implement it, 4-1. So it did go through the legislative
process.

Inside every foam hatter lies a tyrant in waiting.

Hopefully you're being sarcastic.

Some people do confuse the definitions of quarantine and tyranny.

Quarantine is when the government restricts the movement of people to
keep the population safe. Tyranny is when the government restricts the
movement of people to maintain control.

Maybe so but a lot of people are s]asking if this strict self-quarnatine and/or social distancing is really needed never mind what it's doing to peoples' finances and to the economy in general.

There's been a LOT of double-speak from politicians since this Covid-`9 thing broke. A lot of people now are very skeptical of everything and anything any politician says about it.

Cheers



Did you say double-speak? We're on our way to Newspeak!

https://kprcradio.iheart.com/feature...e-hate-speech/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

We have the same thing here in Ontario if anyone says anything about Muslims getting preferential treatment such as calling to prayer over loudspeakers during Ramadan but churches aren't allowed to ring their bells at most times. Say something about where this might lead and you're immediately labelled as an Islamophobic and even your job can be lost as one guy found out recently. Free speech is definitely NOT something we have any more in Canada..

Cheers

On Fri, 8 May 2020 07:51:38 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 5/7/2020 3:49 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Which raises the question of whether, or not, a government should pass
laws to force their citizens to live/act in a safer manner.

Only if acting in an unsafe manner affects the health and safety of
others should the government exert control over adults. Adults can make
the decision as to the level of risk they want to take in their lives,
if no one else is affected by their decision to not act in a safer matter.

But your government does "pass laws" to, for example, have safety
equipment built into your automobiles. If an air bag is required by
law, and there is evidence that in certain instances an air bag might
kill you than why not a law mandating bicyce helmets which, in some
instances, might save your life?


-- snipped --
--
cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 8 May 2020 13:26:57 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Friday, 8 May 2020 16:15:01 UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 5/8/2020 1:06 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
sms wrote:
On 5/8/2020 9:01 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

However, COVID-19 orders are not laws; they have not gone through the
legislative process. There were no public hearings, notice and comment,
etc., etc. They are executive orders and can be as whimsical as the
executive, subject to state law limiting his or her emergency powers.

In my city, I asked the City Manager to order face coverings. While she
had the power to issue a face covering order under her emergency powers,
she asked me to put it on the City Council agenda and the City Council
voted to implement it, 4-1. So it did go through the legislative
process.

Inside every foam hatter lies a tyrant in waiting.

Hopefully you're being sarcastic.

Some people do confuse the definitions of quarantine and tyranny.

Quarantine is when the government restricts the movement of people to
keep the population safe. Tyranny is when the government restricts the
movement of people to maintain control.

Maybe so but a lot of people are s]asking if this strict self-quarnatine and/or social distancing is really needed never mind what it's doing to peoples' finances and to the economy in general.

There's been a LOT of double-speak from politicians since this Covid-`9 thing broke. A lot of people now are very skeptical of everything and anything any politician says about it.

Cheers

Well, what can be done to limit the spread of the Virus? Or, should a
government simply ignore the virus and just let the chips fall where
they may?

Note that the countries where the government acted in a timely manner
and enforced things like, travel into and out of the country, travel
within the country, social distances, face masks, restricting large
gatherings, and so on, do have far lower incidence of sickness than
those that didn't.

--
cheers,

John B.

On 5/8/2020 6:15 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/8/2020 3:26 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 8 May 2020 16:15:01 UTC-4, smsÂ* wrote:
On 5/8/2020 1:06 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
sms wrote:
On 5/8/2020 9:01 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

However, COVID-19 orders are not laws; they have not gone through the
legislative process. There were no public hearings, notice and
comment,
etc., etc. They are executive orders and can be as whimsical as the
executive, subject to state law limiting his or her emergency powers.

In my city, I asked the City Manager to order face coverings. While
she
had the power to issue a face covering order under her emergency
powers,
Â*Â* she asked me to put it on the City Council agenda and the City
Council
voted to implement it, 4-1. So it did go through the legislative
process.

Inside every foam hatter lies a tyrant in waiting.

Hopefully you're being sarcastic.

Some people do confuse the definitions of quarantine and tyranny.

Quarantine is when the government restricts the movement of people to
keep the population safe. Tyranny is when the government restricts the
movement of people to maintain control.

Maybe so but a lot of people are s]asking if this strict
self-quarnatine and/or social distancing is really needed never mind
what it's doing to peoples' finances and to the economy in general.

There's been a LOT of double-speak from politicians since this
Covid-`9 thing broke. A lot of people now are very skeptical of
everything and anything any politician says about it.

Cheers


You're so right. Credibility has been sacrificed on the PC altar.

In one small example, words matter. I remember red quarantine signs on
houses long ago. A quarantine order keeps sick people away from the
general population. This is not that.

IMO, some of the isolation orders have been obviously wrong. Some have
been perhaps questionable. Many have been correct and beneficial.

But this is not like the quarantines of old that applied to people who
were obviously contagious. This virus has a long period during which
asymptomatic people are quite contagious. The quarantine techniques of
50 years ago don't work here.

There have been quite a few "super spreader" events, like funerals that
led to illness and deaths of the mourners and visitors, because someone
attending appeared healthy but transmitted COVID.

For example:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...a6d_story.html

or
https://blockclubchicago.org/2020/04...ad-in-chicago/


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, May 8, 2020 at 1:15:01 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 5/8/2020 1:06 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
sms wrote:
On 5/8/2020 9:01 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

However, COVID-19 orders are not laws; they have not gone through the
legislative process. There were no public hearings, notice and comment,
etc., etc. They are executive orders and can be as whimsical as the
executive, subject to state law limiting his or her emergency powers.

In my city, I asked the City Manager to order face coverings. While she
had the power to issue a face covering order under her emergency powers,
she asked me to put it on the City Council agenda and the City Council
voted to implement it, 4-1. So it did go through the legislative
process.

Inside every foam hatter lies a tyrant in waiting.

Hopefully you're being sarcastic.

Some people do confuse the definitions of quarantine and tyranny.

Quarantine is when the government restricts the movement of people to
keep the population safe. Tyranny is when the government restricts the
movement of people to maintain control.

True, but "quarantine" is just "control" for medical reasons, and if those reasons are false, then its tyranny -- or so one could argue.

Ultimately the difference between order and tyranny is consensus, and if you don't bother to build a consensus, you're labeled a tyrant. And even if you build a consensus, it's still tyranny as to the minority -- but that's O..K., they're the minority. Screw 'em -- bunch of babies. What do they know.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 5/8/2020 3:53 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Note that the countries where the government acted in a timely manner
and enforced things like, travel into and out of the country, travel
within the country, social distances, face masks, restricting large
gatherings, and so on, do have far lower incidence of sickness than
those that didn't.

While there are a few people that are genuinely asking if the social
distancing is necessary, in reality it's a small percentage. Most people
understand the necessity. You can't count the people that are protesting
because they were told to protest by various political groups.

I was on a call with our County's Health Officer today and there were
some legitimate questions as to why certain outdoor businesses, where
social distancing is possible are still not able to open. I.e. why can
golf courses open with social distancing but not drive-in movies (yes,
there are still some of those around)?

I listened to one science guy who was saying that the U.S. quarantine
and shelter-in-place is like a garden party compared to what China did.

On Friday, 8 May 2020 19:13:08 UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/8/2020 6:15 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/8/2020 3:26 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 8 May 2020 16:15:01 UTC-4, smsÂ* wrote:
On 5/8/2020 1:06 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
sms wrote:
On 5/8/2020 9:01 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

However, COVID-19 orders are not laws; they have not gone through the
legislative process. There were no public hearings, notice and
comment,
etc., etc. They are executive orders and can be as whimsical as the
executive, subject to state law limiting his or her emergency powers.

In my city, I asked the City Manager to order face coverings. While
she
had the power to issue a face covering order under her emergency
powers,
Â*Â* she asked me to put it on the City Council agenda and the City
Council
voted to implement it, 4-1. So it did go through the legislative
process.

Inside every foam hatter lies a tyrant in waiting.

Hopefully you're being sarcastic.

Some people do confuse the definitions of quarantine and tyranny.

Quarantine is when the government restricts the movement of people to
keep the population safe. Tyranny is when the government restricts the
movement of people to maintain control.

Maybe so but a lot of people are s]asking if this strict
self-quarnatine and/or social distancing is really needed never mind
what it's doing to peoples' finances and to the economy in general.

There's been a LOT of double-speak from politicians since this
Covid-`9 thing broke. A lot of people now are very skeptical of
everything and anything any politician says about it.

Cheers


You're so right. Credibility has been sacrificed on the PC altar.

In one small example, words matter. I remember red quarantine signs on
houses long ago. A quarantine order keeps sick people away from the
general population. This is not that.

IMO, some of the isolation orders have been obviously wrong. Some have
been perhaps questionable. Many have been correct and beneficial.

But this is not like the quarantines of old that applied to people who
were obviously contagious. This virus has a long period during which
asymptomatic people are quite contagious. The quarantine techniques of
50 years ago don't work here.

There have been quite a few "super spreader" events, like funerals that
led to illness and deaths of the mourners and visitors, because someone
attending appeared healthy but transmitted COVID.

For example:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...a6d_story.html

or
https://blockclubchicago.org/2020/04...ad-in-chicago/


--
- Frank Krygowski

How about back in the days when people coming into the country were quarantined as a matter of course?

Cheers

On 5/8/2020 7:40 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, May 8, 2020 at 1:15:01 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 5/8/2020 1:06 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
sms wrote:
On 5/8/2020 9:01 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

However, COVID-19 orders are not laws; they have not gone through the
legislative process. There were no public hearings, notice and comment,
etc., etc. They are executive orders and can be as whimsical as the
executive, subject to state law limiting his or her emergency powers.

In my city, I asked the City Manager to order face coverings. While she
had the power to issue a face covering order under her emergency powers,
she asked me to put it on the City Council agenda and the City Council
voted to implement it, 4-1. So it did go through the legislative
process.

Inside every foam hatter lies a tyrant in waiting.

Hopefully you're being sarcastic.

Some people do confuse the definitions of quarantine and tyranny.

Quarantine is when the government restricts the movement of people to
keep the population safe. Tyranny is when the government restricts the
movement of people to maintain control.

True, but "quarantine" is just "control" for medical reasons, and if those reasons are false, then its tyranny -- or so one could argue.

Ultimately the difference between order and tyranny is consensus, and if you don't bother to build a consensus, you're labeled a tyrant. And even if you build a consensus, it's still tyranny as to the minority -- but that's O.K., they're the minority. Screw 'em -- bunch of babies. What do they know.

Or at least, they're outnumbered. That's the key fact about democracy.


--
- Frank Krygowski