Dragging the wheel sucker

wrote in message
...
someone wrote:

The best draft I ever had was a pick-up truck pulling a wagon
full of hay bales at 40 to 50 kph, which I followed at a spacing
of about 1 meter for several kilometers at low effort. I doubt I
had any effect on the farmer's fuel economy.

My best draft was behind a Winnebago on a fully loaded touring
bike going down San Marcos Pass Road toward Santa Barbara. I
thought I'd bought it a couple of times.

OK, I just read Lance Armstrong's book, "Its Not about the bike".
He says that in a race, the support guys would chase down someone
who did a breakaway, and their technique was to get right behind the
breakaway racer and pace him, thereby slowing him down and making
him work harder... Did I read that wrong? I'm interested, because
I'll feel bad drafting someone at the end of a long ride if I'm
making his job harder... Of course, some days I can pull and other
days I'm shot.

To bad. Driving a truck right behind someone helps push him along, as
I and Tom Sherman mentioned. A following bicyclist does the same but
it isn't significant, his cross section being small and several
diameters behind the lead rider. A van, in contrast pushes a lot of
air ahead of itself and can assist a bicyclist is directly behind the
rider's rear wheel.

I guess Lance was cooking up more myth and lore. I like his noted
interview about drugs: "I don't use any BANNED substances!" which in
so many words didn't deny that he didn't use them but made clear these
substances had not yet been identified by the medical rule makers.

The only thing made clear is that your bias is showing. It could be
taken to mean his caffeine intake. Depending on whether your belief
system embraces the fact that Lance is a doper, or not, all statements
are interpreted accordingly.

Phil H

Philip Holman wrote:

The best draft I ever had was a pick-up truck pulling a wagon
full of hay bales at 40 to 50 kph, which I followed at a spacing
of about 1 meter for several kilometers at low effort. I doubt I
had any effect on the farmer's fuel economy.

My best draft was behind a Winnebago on a fully loaded touring
bike going down San Marcos Pass Road toward Santa Barbara. I
thought I'd bought it a couple of times.

OK, I just read Lance Armstrong's book, "Its Not about the bike".
He says that in a race, the support guys would chase down someone
who did a breakaway, and their technique was to get right behind
the breakaway racer and pace him, thereby slowing him down and
making him work harder... Did I read that wrong? I'm interested,
because I'll feel bad drafting someone at the end of a long ride
if I'm making his job harder... Of course, some days I can pull
and other days I'm shot.

To bad. Driving a truck right behind someone helps push him along,
as I and Tom Sherman mentioned. A following bicyclist does the
same but it isn't significant, his cross section being small and
several diameters behind the lead rider. A van, in contrast pushes
a lot of air ahead of itself and can assist a bicyclist if directly
behind the rider's rear wheel.

I guess Lance was cooking up more myth and lore. I like his noted
interview about drugs: "I don't use any BANNED substances!" which
in so many words didn't deny that he used them but made clear these
substances had not yet been identified by the medical rule makers.

The only thing made clear is that your bias is showing. It could be
taken to mean his caffeine intake. Depending on whether your belief
system embraces the fact that Lance is a doper, or not, all
statements are interpreted accordingly.

I saw the interview on TV and the emphasis was his, not mine. You can
make any inferences you like from his words in context of the
interview.

Jobst Brandt

Philip Holman wrote:

The best draft I ever had was a pick-up truck pulling a wagon
full of hay bales at 40 to 50 kph, which I followed at a spacing
of about 1 meter for several kilometers at low effort. I doubt I
had any effect on the farmer's fuel economy.

My best draft was behind a Winnebago on a fully loaded touring
bike going down San Marcos Pass Road toward Santa Barbara. I
thought I'd bought it a couple of times.

OK, I just read Lance Armstrong's book, "Its Not about the bike".
He says that in a race, the support guys would chase down someone
who did a breakaway, and their technique was to get right behind
the breakaway racer and pace him, thereby slowing him down and
making him work harder... Did I read that wrong? I'm interested,
because I'll feel bad drafting someone at the end of a long ride
if I'm making his job harder... Of course, some days I can pull
and other days I'm shot.

To bad. Driving a truck right behind someone helps push him along,
as I and Tom Sherman mentioned. A following bicyclist does the
same but it isn't significant, his cross section being small and
several diameters behind the lead rider. A van, in contrast pushes
a lot of air ahead of itself and can assist a bicyclist if directly
behind the rider's rear wheel.

I guess Lance was cooking up more myth and lore. I like his noted
interview about drugs: "I don't use any BANNED substances!" which
in so many words didn't deny that he used them but made clear these
substances had not yet been identified by the medical rule makers.

The only thing made clear is that your bias is showing. It could be
taken to mean his caffeine intake. Depending on whether your belief
system embraces the fact that Lance is a doper, or not, all
statements are interpreted accordingly.

I saw the interview on TV and the emphasis was his, not mine. You can
make any inferences you like from his words in context of the
interview.

Jobst Brandt

On 27 Sep 2008 20:42:42 GMT, wrote:

Philip Holman wrote:

The best draft I ever had was a pick-up truck pulling a wagon
full of hay bales at 40 to 50 kph, which I followed at a spacing
of about 1 meter for several kilometers at low effort. I doubt I
had any effect on the farmer's fuel economy.

My best draft was behind a Winnebago on a fully loaded touring
bike going down San Marcos Pass Road toward Santa Barbara. I
thought I'd bought it a couple of times.

OK, I just read Lance Armstrong's book, "Its Not about the bike".
He says that in a race, the support guys would chase down someone
who did a breakaway, and their technique was to get right behind
the breakaway racer and pace him, thereby slowing him down and
making him work harder... Did I read that wrong? I'm interested,
because I'll feel bad drafting someone at the end of a long ride
if I'm making his job harder... Of course, some days I can pull
and other days I'm shot.

To bad. Driving a truck right behind someone helps push him along,
as I and Tom Sherman mentioned. A following bicyclist does the
same but it isn't significant, his cross section being small and
several diameters behind the lead rider. A van, in contrast pushes
a lot of air ahead of itself and can assist a bicyclist if directly
behind the rider's rear wheel.

I guess Lance was cooking up more myth and lore. I like his noted
interview about drugs: "I don't use any BANNED substances!" which
in so many words didn't deny that he used them but made clear these
substances had not yet been identified by the medical rule makers.

The only thing made clear is that your bias is showing. It could be
taken to mean his caffeine intake. Depending on whether your belief
system embraces the fact that Lance is a doper, or not, all
statements are interpreted accordingly.

I saw the interview on TV and the emphasis was his, not mine. You can
make any inferences you like from his words in context of the
interview.

Jobst Brandt

Dear Jobst,

Yes, we understand that you feel that you can make any inferences you
like from his words in the interview.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

In article
,
wrote:

Ok, I just read Lance Armstrongs book, "Its Not about the bike". He
says that in a race, the support guys would chase down someone who
did a breakaway, and their technique was to get right behind the
breakaway racer and pace him, thereby slowing him down and making him
work harder... Did I read that wrong? I'm interested, because I'll
feel bad drafting someone at the end of a long ride if I'm making his
job harder... Of course, some days I can pull and other days I'm
shot.

He was wrong. Drafting a rider does not slow him/her down and,
according to the wind tunnel testing I mentioned earlier, may actually
provide a benefit to the leading rider.

On Sep 27, 2:30*pm, wrote:

I guess Lance was cooking up more myth and lore. *I like his noted
interview about drugs: "I don't use any BANNED substances!" which in
so many words didn't deny that he didn't use them but made clear these
substances had not yet been identified by the medical rule makers.

Jobst Brandt

Then are they banned or not?

On Sep 27, 4:08*pm, "Philip Holman" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Sep 27, 12:23 pm, Mike Rocket J Squirrel





wrote:
On 9/27/2008 8:57 AM RicodJour wrote:

On Sep 27, 11:14 am, Tom Sherman
wrote:
The best draft I ever had was a pick-up truck pulling a wagon full
of
hay bales at 40 to 50 kph, which I followed at a spacing of about 1
meter for several kilometers at low effort. I doubt I had any
effect on
the farmer's fuel economy.

My best draft was behind a Winnebago on a fully loaded touring bike
going down San Marcos Pass Road towards Santa Barbara. I thought I'd
bought it a couple of times.

I bow before you.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"

Ok, I just read Lance Armstrongs book, "Its Not about the bike". *He
says that in a race, the support guys would chase down someone who did
a breakaway, and their technique was to get right behind the breakaway
racer and pace him, thereby slowing him down and making him work
harder... *Did I read that wrong?

Do you have a page number?

Phil H- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

---- (good book by the way) "Its Not About the Bike" Berkley Paperback
edition, page 234:
" Kevin's (Livingston) job was to get behind Zulle and stay right
behind his wheel, making it harder for Zulle to pull up the hill.
It's called "sitting on him." While Kevin "sat" on Zulle's wheel and
slowed him down, the rest of my Postal teammates pulled me...."

I also can't imagine the physics at work here.

wrote in message
...
On Sep 27, 4:08 pm, "Philip Holman" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Sep 27, 12:23 pm, Mike Rocket J Squirrel





wrote:
On 9/27/2008 8:57 AM RicodJour wrote:

On Sep 27, 11:14 am, Tom Sherman

wrote:
The best draft I ever had was a pick-up truck pulling a wagon
full
of
hay bales at 40 to 50 kph, which I followed at a spacing of about
1
meter for several kilometers at low effort. I doubt I had any
effect on
the farmer's fuel economy.

My best draft was behind a Winnebago on a fully loaded touring
bike
going down San Marcos Pass Road towards Santa Barbara. I thought
I'd
bought it a couple of times.

I bow before you.

--
Mike "Rocket J Squirrel"

Ok, I just read Lance Armstrongs book, "Its Not about the bike". He
says that in a race, the support guys would chase down someone who did
a breakaway, and their technique was to get right behind the breakaway
racer and pace him, thereby slowing him down and making him work
harder... Did I read that wrong?

Do you have a page number?

Phil H- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

---- (good book by the way) "Its Not About the Bike" Berkley Paperback
edition, page 234:
" Kevin's (Livingston) job was to get behind Zulle and stay right
behind his wheel, making it harder for Zulle to pull up the hill.
It's called "sitting on him." While Kevin "sat" on Zulle's wheel and
slowed him down, the rest of my Postal teammates pulled me...."

I also can't imagine the physics at work here.

The physics doesn't support slowing him down from a science perspective.
However, from a psychological standpoint, towing another rider up a hill
when attacking and not getting a gap will eventaully make the lead rider
slow down. The reason being is that even for a small power saving at
climbing speeds, the following rider is in a good position to counter
attack.

It's a bad tactic to tow somebody at max power output for any length of
time. Knowing this, the tactic of the other teams is to get someone to
sit on the attacking wheel. Now if a gap opens up, that's a totally
different scenario.

Phil H

wrote in message
...
Philip Holman wrote:

The best draft I ever had was a pick-up truck pulling a wagon
full of hay bales at 40 to 50 kph, which I followed at a spacing
of about 1 meter for several kilometers at low effort. I doubt I
had any effect on the farmer's fuel economy.

My best draft was behind a Winnebago on a fully loaded touring
bike going down San Marcos Pass Road toward Santa Barbara. I
thought I'd bought it a couple of times.

OK, I just read Lance Armstrong's book, "Its Not about the bike".
He says that in a race, the support guys would chase down someone
who did a breakaway, and their technique was to get right behind
the breakaway racer and pace him, thereby slowing him down and
making him work harder... Did I read that wrong? I'm interested,
because I'll feel bad drafting someone at the end of a long ride
if I'm making his job harder... Of course, some days I can pull
and other days I'm shot.

To bad. Driving a truck right behind someone helps push him along,
as I and Tom Sherman mentioned. A following bicyclist does the
same but it isn't significant, his cross section being small and
several diameters behind the lead rider. A van, in contrast pushes
a lot of air ahead of itself and can assist a bicyclist if directly
behind the rider's rear wheel.

I guess Lance was cooking up more myth and lore. I like his noted
interview about drugs: "I don't use any BANNED substances!" which
in so many words didn't deny that he used them but made clear these
substances had not yet been identified by the medical rule makers.

The only thing made clear is that your bias is showing. It could be
taken to mean his caffeine intake. Depending on whether your belief
system embraces the fact that Lance is a doper, or not, all
statements are interpreted accordingly.

I saw the interview on TV and the emphasis was his, not mine. You can
make any inferences you like from his words in context of the
interview.

I personally wouldn't make any inferences from such emphasis and
especially not to interpret it as "substances not yet identified by the
medical rule makers". That's a stretch don't you think?

This is similar to those who interpret his statement that "I've never
tested positive for illegal performance enhancing drugs" as "I've taken
them, but I've never been caught by drug testing".

Other than an admission by Lance, the issue of whether he took drugs or
not isn't even testable any more.....we'll never know for sure. Of
course his comeback will open up a new chapter in this ongoing debate.

Phil H