Limbaugh: Is free speech dead?

To be sure, I am a life long Philadelphia Eagles fan. Further, I have
been following Donovan McNabb's successes since his days at Syracuse.
This guy has done tremendous things for the Eagles as well as die hard
fans like me. We needed a strong QB in Philly! We got one. Having
said all of that, Donovan has been struggling in a big way this
season. Simply put, he is OFF his game. As Philly is a tough sports
town, the local media has been less than kind to Donovan lately. With
that in mind, I would argue that Rush Limbaugh is wrong when he
offered an opinion that suggested the media was going easy on the
criticism of Donovan because they may have a racial bias that favors
black quarterbacks and coaches. I would also argue that the media was
wrong in squashing Limbaugh like a bug rather than addressing the
content of his charge. Does this mean that we cannot talk openly
about racial bias in the media? Does this mean we cannot talk about
race in sports? Are we accepting of censorship when the topic is
considered outside of what is politically correct? Is free speech
dead?

Jim Reilly
Reading, PA

(stratrider) wrote in news:e4b0c94.0310061704.5e31f324
@posting.google.com:

To be sure, I am a life long Philadelphia Eagles fan. Further, I have
been following Donovan McNabb's successes since his days at Syracuse.
This guy has done tremendous things for the Eagles as well as die hard
fans like me. We needed a strong QB in Philly! We got one. Having
said all of that, Donovan has been struggling in a big way this
season. Simply put, he is OFF his game. As Philly is a tough sports
town, the local media has been less than kind to Donovan lately. With
that in mind, I would argue that Rush Limbaugh is wrong when he
offered an opinion that suggested the media was going easy on the
criticism of Donovan because they may have a racial bias that favors
black quarterbacks and coaches. I would also argue that the media was
wrong in squashing Limbaugh like a bug rather than addressing the
content of his charge. Does this mean that we cannot talk openly
about racial bias in the media? Does this mean we cannot talk about
race in sports? Are we accepting of censorship when the topic is
considered outside of what is politically correct? Is free speech
dead?

Jim Reilly
Reading, PA


You know, you are exactly right. But I'm having too much fun watching
Rushie squirm

I would argue that Rush Limbaugh is wrong when he
offered an opinion that suggested the media was going easy on the
criticism of Donovan because they may have a racial bias that favors
black quarterbacks and coaches.


why was the NAACP established and who established it?

(stratrider) wrote in message om...
Is free speech dead?


Rush on the Recumbent forum? If he can't be on ESPN, I guess the
Recumbent forum is the next best thing! g

As a Rush fan, I can only say that Rush let his ego get in front of
his brain.

Rush was stupid to think that he could get away with his comment.

Here, Rush is in his DREAM job. Something he's be trying to get into
for years. Something he LOVES! Football!
On TV!

And he goes as blows it with a dumb racial comment.

Rush, himself blew his dream job.

Can you get away with a vague racist comment at work?

I can't.

I can't speculate on the ability of Green people or yellow people, or
black people in my work place. I know if I do, I may lose my job.

Why didn't Rush know this?

Rush is not bigger than 200 years of Race problems.

Rush didn't lose his Free Speech. He lost his job.

And I like Rush. God I love it when he replays Rita from Detroit
calling in.

And I'm holding back on the drug thing. I'm letting that develop and
play out to the Truth as the media will report it. BUT, if old
Rush-bow took drugs, he will lose his credibility with me. But let
see how that one plays out. Not many facts are in on that one. I
with hold judgement on that one.

But Rush threw away his own job.

Now onto more important things. Did you know that the Aero Recumbent
is twice as fast as the Baron low Rider? I saw a scientific research
paper that a Professor did in Denmark that proved the Baron was not
very aerodynamic. I hold these research papers in my nicotine stained
fingers and rumble the paper as I say this.

"stratrider" wrote in message
m...
I would argue that Rush Limbaugh is wrong when he
offered an opinion that suggested the media was going easy on the
criticism of Donovan because they may have a racial bias that favors
black quarterbacks and coaches.

Was he wrong because there is no such racial bias, or wrong because he
offered his opinion on it?

I would also argue that the media was
wrong in squashing Limbaugh like a bug rather than addressing the
content of his charge.

Race is a hot potato in the US. The infamous "PC movement" of the late '90's
offers ample testament to my assertion. I've read several books and written
lengthy term papers on the topic of free speech vs. political correctness.
It's not an easy topic.

Does this mean that we cannot talk openly about racial bias in the media?

Yes. That's right. It means there are limits to what our society can cope
with easily in the media, and race is a topic that simply can't stand the
light of day. There are too many skeletons in too many closets, and a
racial/cultural divide that is more like a Grand Canyon (yes, referring to
the Lawrence Kasdan film). It's not the only hot potato in our culture, but
it's probably the hottest one of all.

Does this mean we cannot talk about
race in sports? Are we accepting of censorship when the topic is
considered outside of what is politically correct? Is free speech
dead?

Free speech is a continuous spectrum. Not all free speech is legally
protected. You still can't openly threaten people with physical harm. You
can't slander or libel private citizens. You can't yell "fire!" in a crowded
theatre.

Look, I'm a card-carrying member of the ACLU, and I do take free speech very
seriously; but I think the issue isn't freedom of speech. I think the issue
is responsible speech, and taking responsibility when your speech offends
someone. Please by all means, have an opinion, and tell us all about it; but
be aware also that yours isn't the only opinion. This is the hard lesson
about free speech: It never exists in a vacuum. It always affects everyone
who hears it - a little, or a lot. You can choose not to care; but that
doesn't mean that everybody chooses the same way. Your employer, or your
friends or your neighbors, might want to get clear of you if you are being
particularly offensive. Are you free to be incredibly offensive? Sure you
are, thanks to the ACLU and the Warren court; but you're also free to be
alone, and unliked, and unemployed. Free speech depends upon tolerance, and
tolerance depends upon social norms, and those vary continuously. Intent and
context are very important.

As much as I think Rush Limbaugh is a bombastic windbag most of the time, I
believe he's entitled to speak his mind without fear of censure. I only wish
there was equal time offered to opposing (or just different) viewpoints to
present a more balanced ecology in the world of media punditry. Sadly, the
loudest, most opinionated knee-jerk conservatives are the ones that bring in
the ratings. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Rush Limbaugh makes
a very good case for even-handed liberal thinking, and he's the left wing's
best friend. He's so offensively obnoxious that he might just light a fire
under the dormant and divided Lefties and get them motivated to organize and
move toward some worthy political goals again. We have plenty of important
challenges ahead of us: the Medicare crisis, public school funding, repeal
of irresponsible tax cuts, etc, etc.

To answer your question with another question: Do you feel at liberty to
walk into your racially-integrated workplace and start shouting your
opinions on issues of race, loudly and publicly? If not, why not?

-=B=-

To answer your question with another question: Do you feel at liberty to
walk into your racially-integrated workplace and start shouting your
opinions on issues of race, loudly and publicly? If not, why not?

-=B=-

Loudly and publicy. No. I agree there is a time and place for all
forms of speech. But have I offered calm dissenting opinions in the
office to friends and co-workers of a different color. YES. Have I
won some debates? Yes. Have I lost some? Yes. Do we have a better
workplace for having debate? Yes.

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
m...
(Truestorys) wrote in message
. com...

(stratrider) wrote in message
om...
Is free speech dead?


Rush on the Recumbent forum? If he can't be on ESPN, I guess the
Recumbent forum is the next best thing! g

As a Rush fan, I can only say that Rush let his ego get in front of
his brain.

Rush was stupid to think that he could get away with his comment.

Here, Rush is in his DREAM job. Something he's be trying to get into
for years. Something he LOVES! Football!
On TV!

And he goes as blows it with a dumb racial comment.

Rush, himself blew his dream job.

Can you get away with a vague racist comment at work?

I can't.

I can't speculate on the ability of Green people or yellow people, or
black people in my work place. I know if I do, I may lose my job.

Why didn't Rush know this?

Rush is not bigger than 200 years of Race problems.

Rush didn't lose his Free Speech. He lost his job.

And I like Rush. God I love it when he replays Rita from Detroit
calling in.

And I'm holding back on the drug thing. I'm letting that develop and
play out to the Truth as the media will report it. BUT, if old
Rush-bow took drugs, he will lose his credibility with me. But let
see how that one plays out. Not many facts are in on that one. I
with hold judgement on that one.

But Rush threw away his own job.

The best thing that ever happened was for Limbaugh to lose that stupid
football thing. He is needed in the land of political punditry and
should not be dissipating his time and talents on something as foolish
and irrelevant as football. Any one can do that sort of thing, but to
do what he does in the political realm takes genius - which he has.

Mmmkay. I think this sums up Ed's grasp of reality nicely.

The liberals hate him (see other posts in this thread) because they
know how effective he has been in changing the political dynamic in
this country. For the first time in my lifetime the liberals are on
the defensive and it is largely due to conservative radio talk shows
like Limbaugh. The g.d. NY Times and the g.d. LA Times no longer
dictate what people are going to think about things anymore. Those
newspapers are self destructing before our very eyes as they have now
become propaganda screeds for the Democratic Party. They are out in
the open about it at long last.

Limbaugh has built up a very loyal following over many years

So did Hitler, and for similar reasons :P

and they
will stick by him through thick and thin.

Just like the SS did in WWII. Dittoheads all.

He talks about race issues
all the time on his show.

The Nazis *loved* talking about race issues. They had some strong opinions
on the subject. Maybe you've read about them. Oh, wait - you don't read, do
you? Just watch O'Reilly and Limbaugh on the TV.

Screw political correctness all the way to
hell and back and screw those who defend political correctness. The
day is not far off when we will all be discussing race in this country
with a vengeance, and it will be the best thing that ever happened to
this country

Ok, then stop whining and tell us how it really is with racial issues in
America. Tell us the Truth About Race, Ed. Save us from our ignorant Lefty
selves. Speak your mind and prove that free speech still exists. Don't hold
back. Don't be a lilly-livered-Lefty on us. Be a gutsy, devil-may-care
Libertarian like your heroes. Let's hear your righteous rant about race
issues. What? You're afraid of repercussions? Afraid that somebody might
not agree with you? What would Rush think of you? I think he'd say you're
a coward.

Ask yourself: What Would Rush Do?

Those Dems and liberals who can't take the heat on this
issue had better get out of the kitchen.

You gonna tell us how it really is with race issues in America, or shoot
your little pea-shooter at some straw men all day? You talk a lot, but you
don't say much.

I admire Limbaugh
tremendously for speaking his mind without regard to the sensitivities
of a self selected elite of liberal snobs and Dems who only know how
to cater to minorities for their votes, never giving them much of
anything that amount to a hill of beans.

Tell us all about the evils of catering to minorities when you finally start
biting instead of just tugging at your leash and barking all day little
doggie. If the Lefties are so inferior to you, then why don't you start
rippin' em apart with your incisive wit and deep knowledge of politics and
race relations in the US. Don't hold back!

Truestorys does not like Limbaugh. He has called him stupid, dumb and
a racist in his post above. He is clearly a liar about liking him.

Oh gawd, spare us the "more dittohead than thou" attitude. You're going from
merely ignorant to truly pathetic.

-=B=-

(Edward Dolan) wrote in message om...


Truestorys does not like Limbaugh. He has called him stupid, dumb and
a racist in his post above. He is clearly a liar about liking him.

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

LOL real loud Ed. I'm sure glad you can read all that into my post.

God, Ed, I've been a fan of the Ma-Ha-Rushdie for about god, for too
long, like 10 years. I like 95% of what he says. I just dont have
your blind passion.

Gees Ed, you were awful darn quick to call me a liar.

Don

It seems like when a political thread gets going, it's almost a certainty
that there's someone out there that will scream Nazi or make an analogy with
Hitler or the Nazi party. Apparently these Nazi screamers are unaware that
when they do this, they're not credible, they're not influencing anyone, and
they're not going to change anyone's opinions (except probably changing
other reader's opinion of the Nazi screamer himself).

Rush Limbaugh Is A Big, Fat Idiot?

Emil Guillermo, Special to SF Gate
Tuesday, October 7, 2003

Al Franken was wrong.

Rush Limbaugh isn't a big, fat idiot, as Franken's book title proclaimed
a few years back. Certainly not after Limbaugh lost more than 100
pounds.

But since a news item last week about the conservative icon, we know he
is not color-blind.

We know that when Limbaugh sees Donovan McNabb, he doesn't see a great
NFL quarterback. He sees a black man.

And, as if being a bigot is not enough, in the tabloids we learn from
Limbaugh's alleged former drug peddler that in Limbaugh's more desperate
moments, he apparently liked the opium derivative OxyContin so much, he
called the pills his "blue babies."

These revelations mean that the Darling of Dittoheads everywhere could
be a racist, a dope addict or both. Does it seem as if some kind of
cosmic justice is at work here?

Rush the Racist?

In case you hadn't heard, Limbaugh, already making $30 million from his
three-hour daily radio show, had been moonlighting as a football analyst
for ESPN's "Sunday NFL Countdown."

He was forced to resign last week.

On Sept. 28, a panel discussion on the show featured ex-players Michael
Ervin, Steve Young and Tom Jackson and sportscaster Chris Berman. The
topic was Donovan McNabb's poor start this season as quarterback for the
Philadelphia Eagles.

Limbaugh, hired by ESPN this year to jack up the ratings (which he did)
and mix it up with the boys in the studio (which he tried to do), did
what he does best. He polarized the issue. It's how he gets 20 million
listeners to tune in to his radio show.

So, when the ex-jocks went soft on McNabb, shock jock Limbaugh went for
the hot button.

"I think the sum total of what you're saying is that Donovan McNabb is
regressing and going backwards," said Limbaugh. "And I'm sorry to say
this: I don't think he's been that good from the get-go."

I hate it when people use the term get-go.

But that's not the hanging offense. If Limbaugh stopped there, that
would have been fine. But he didn't.

"I think what we've had here is a little social concern from the NFL,"
he continued. "I think the media has been very desirous of a black
quarterback to do well. They're interested in seeing black quarterbacks
and black coaches doing well. I thing there's a little hope invested in
McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that
he really didn't deserve."

Why was it relevant to bring in race?

In a week in which the league's two top-rated quarterbacks were Steve
McNair and Daunte Culpepper, both African Americans, bringing up an old
saw about the supposed inferiority of blacks to play a skilled position
like quarterback in the NFL was clearly gratuitous.

The ex-jocks knew that in football terms.

"Somebody went to those Pro Bowls," Tom Jackson, an African American,
said, referring to McNabb's all-star credentials and putting the subject
back on his ability, not his skin color.

"I think he got a lot of credit from the defensive side of the ball,
winning games for this team," Limbaugh retorted. (That was Limbaugh's
main point, but it was obscured when Limbaugh mentioned race).

Steve Young jumped in but didn't go after Rush. He defended McNabb,
saying, "When [Philadelphia] is winning, nobody makes more plays than
Donovan McNabb."

I'm sure everybody at ESPN thought it was a spirited discussion. After
all, that's what they wanted when they hired Rush.

Until the calls of protest came in.

And then a surprising thing happened: Limbaugh went out with a whimper.
He resigned. He didn't fight back. He made a weak statement in response,
saying he was just offering his opinion, and that his comments were
"directed at the media and not racially motivated."

Ah, it's that biased liberal media that wanted to prop up McNabb. The
same liberal media that supports Limbaugh's $30 million dollar-a-year
paycheck.

That's some liberal media -- which, incidentally, gladly accepted
Limbaugh's resignation.

Frankly, I'm surprised most commentators were willing to give Limbaugh a
pass after his statement, which wasn't exactly an apology.

But McNabb wasn't letting Limbaugh get away with it.

"I thought we were through with that," McNabb said at a press conference
last week, referring to the historical discussion of whether blacks can
excel as quarterbacks. "I'm sure that everyone else has thought about
it. Or it's on their mind. I'm sure that he's not the only one who feels
that way."

He's probably not, and that's the real problem.

Rush Limbaugh has done more to make racist and intolerant views
mainstream than anyone else I can think of.

When he "says what people think" on the 600-plus radio stations
throughout the country, most of them owned by major media conglomerates,
that air his program, Limbaugh legitimizes sentiments that some people
would be too afraid to express openly -- until they hear it somewhere
else first.

When Limbaugh says it, Dittoheads are programmed. Suddenly, it's OK to
diss people of color. Immigrants. The undocumented. "Femi-Nazis." Animal
rights wackos. Tree huggers.

So I'm sure, when some people heard what Limbaugh said on ESPN, it may
not have seemed so egregious compared to the sentiments on his radio
show, or those replicated on other right-wing programs.

The sentiments expressed about McNabb seemed so commonplace, most of us
were no longer shocked. It was Rush Lite.

Rush the Drug Addict?

But I must admit I was shocked to read the details of Limbaugh's
purported drug addiction and his role in a Florida drug investigation,
as reported in The National Enquirer and confirmed by major news
organizations.

The news reports spoke of Limbaugh buying as many as 4,350 pills -- all
of them opium derivatives such as Lorcet, hydrocodone and OxyContin,
which have the same effect as morphine, in a 47-day period.

Last week, Limbaugh told his radio audience, "Just trust me."

But I'm wondering when we'll see the reenactments show up on Fox News of
Limbaugh driving to a Denny's parking lot in West Palm Beach, where
reports said he bought drugs from his ex-housekeeper, Wilma Cline.

She said he'd lower the window of his Mercedes and she'd hand him a
cigar box full of pills. "He'd take it and hand me his cigar box full of
money," Cline told the Enquirer. "'Here's the cabbage,' he'd say. Then
he'd drive off."

Is this just the GOP version of the '80s T-shirt message, "Cocaine is
God's way of saying you make too much money"?

Believe me, I'm trying to summon the same compassion for Rush that he's
shown in the past for drug addicts, not to mention the homeless, welfare
recipients, people of color, immigrants, etc.

But I admit it's tough.

After hearing Limbaugh belittle some groups of people, especially the
drug dependent, for so many years, there's a sweetness in reading about
his alleged gargantuan drug addiction.

After listening to him mock black speech by saying, "What you axe me?"
it's somehow satisfying to see him face up to charges of racism with a
wimpy resignation note to ESPN. Perhaps the appeal is the same stuff
that makes us revel in the Martha Stewart/Ken Lay/Enron stories. There's
something oh so satisfying about bloated icons that go pop, then fall
with a nice thud.

When that icon is such a demagogue as Limbaugh is, there is a delicious
sense of cosmic justice when the guy who claimed to have "talent on loan
from God" is now suddenly found to be in default.