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Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park



 
 
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  #61  
Old September 15th 07, 02:35 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Mike Vandeman
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Posts: 4,798
Default Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:31:52 -0700, y_p_w wrote:

On Sep 14, 2:20 pm, (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
Chris wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote:
Chris wrote:


Mike,
We finally have a subject where we agree. The bear should not be
killed.


Thanks. Did you do anything to prevent that?


I did exactly the same thing you did. Nothing! Nice job Mike.


But....... You were wrong in your statement "It's a well known
fact that black bears don't attack humans, except to defend their
cubs."


Okay.


Unfortunately, you are both wrong. The bear should be
killed. That is an unfortunate tragedy, but life is not
necessarily nice.

Bears are not terribly bright compared to humans, they
do not often reason out what works and what
doesn't... they mostly learn by repetition and form
habits to go along with instinct. Instinct tells them
that humans are scary things that they should stay away
from. But it takes just about exactly 1 instance where
that is proven wrong for a bear to become habituated
towards attacking rather than fleeing from a human.


Personally, I think they are intelligent as far as non-human animals
go. Many believe they can problem solve. I love the stories of
particular bears that learned to recognize a particular model of car,
and from that point became known as "Camaro Bear" or "VB Bug Bear" for
their practice and expertise, before meeting their demise.

Whether it is the bear's fault that such a situation was
presented to it, is immaterial. Whether it is the
bear's fault that it is not smart enough to reason out
that one example is not proof that attacking humans is
safe, is immaterial.


I think the key is that bears don't really have a "moral compass" like
we'd hope humans would. A bear is looking after its own interests,
and frankly has no concept of "theft" or "injury".


Sounds just like a typical mountain biker. They were made for each
other!

The fact is that an *intelligent* human *can* reason out
the fact that the bear is now very likely to be a
significant danger to humans. The only safe action for
humans is to kill that particular bear.


That I agree with. Bears are wonderful creatures, but a bear that has
shown the propensity to injure people should be put down. It's
something I would have wished had never gotten to that point.


The same goes for mountain bikers, who have shown a propensity for
irritating bears and other creatures.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
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  #62  
Old September 16th 07, 06:00 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
y_p_w
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Posts: 102
Default Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park

On Sep 14, 6:33 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:20:24 -0800, (Floyd L.
The fact is that an *intelligent* human *can* reason out
the fact that the bear is now very likely to be a
significant danger to humans. The only safe action for
humans is to kill that particular bear.


BS. If you are so smart, you should be able to figure out that ALL
bears are dangerous, and so you should stay out of their habitat. DUH!


Sure. Why didn't we already think of that? I guess we should all
start by vacating all of Yosemite, Yellowstone. Move people out of
their rural homes in Idaho, the Sierras, the Cascades, etc. I'll
probably should never go to Lake Tahoe again, since "bears are
dangerous". I guess the American Indians had it all wrong not getting
the heck out of areas where bears lived, which includes the Berkeley
Hills (where I live) and even as far as San Francisco in the early
1900's.

Heck - several black bears came into Reno, Nevada on occasion and
started raiding trash cans. I guess that's their habitat now. Better
move people out.

Seriously though (for people who can reason better than Vandeman) -
bears aren't statistically dangerous. It's the rare case where bears
have the potential to cause harm to people. Black bears have
coexisted alongside people in North America for thousands of years,
and there's not going to be some massive die-off because an animal is
alongside a human presence. It's respect that should minimize
potential harm to humans and bears, and not a separation of the
habitats of humans and bears. Fact is - people are living and
visiting in areas where bears live, and nothing is going to change
that. Most of the time, it's not an issue. In the rare case where a
bear does show the propensity to injure a person, I have no problem if
it is put down. I respect bears, but I don't romanticize them as some
noble creature that must be preserved at all costs.

  #63  
Old September 17th 07, 12:07 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
[email protected]
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Posts: 2
Default Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park

On Sep 3, 9:23 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
What crime did the bear commit, that it deserves to die?! She was only
defending her cubs!

Mike

http://www.komotv.com/news/9538012.html:

Black bear attacks bicyclist in park

Story Published: Sep 2, 2007 at 4:14 PM PDT

Story Updated: Sep 3, 2007 at 7:33 AM PDT

By KOMO Staff

Watch the story
NEAR OLLALA, Wash. -- A man was attacked by a bear while mountain
biking in the Banner Forest Heritage Park just before noon on Sunday,
according to South Kitsap Fire and Rescue officials.

Spokesman Ron Powers said a 51-year-old Port Orchard man was biking
with his two dogs alongside him when the dogs ran ahead and around the
bend, then started barking fiercely. The man turned the bend and saw
the dogs were barking at a bear.

Powers said the bear immediately charged at the man, who tried to use
his bike to shield himself from the animal. But the bear managed to
injure the man's arm, back, neck and ear before he was able to get
back on his bike and ride away.

Down the path, the injured man ran into other mountain bikers, who
called 911.

The man was conscious and alert when he was taken to St. Joseph
Medical Center in Tacoma. The unidentified man is in serious
condition, but is expected to recover.

One of the man's dogs is still missing. It is not known whether the
dog suffered injuries during the attack. The second dog is said to be
OK.

Officials evacuated the park and shut it down in order to search for
the bear. Powers said if the bear is found, officials plan to kill it.
Officials said crews will search through the night until the bear is
found.

Another bicyclist who was at the park on Sunday told authorities he
saw mother bear and two cubs while riding on the trail.

Powers said Sunday's attack is a freak accident, stating black bears
rarely attack humans and, unless provoked or threatened, will run
away. The man or the dogs may have appeared as a threat to the bear,
who may have been protecting her cubs, Powers said.

Area resident Teri Nelson agrees, while bears are not uncommon at the
park, she didn't expect them to be aggressive.

"Attacking somebody would make me have second thoughts about walking
through this forest by myself," she said. "It's pretty scary."
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande


Hi, I'm new to this com method but have enjoyed the dialogue and wish
to add something. My Standard Poodle and I were attacked near Ashland,
OR on September 10th. I was returning from hiking a remote trail above
my home and the dog, unleashed and about 15 yards ahead, evidently
bumped into the bear and a short fight occurred. The dog has about 20
stictches in her left hind quarter but has pretty much recovered
already. As the dog yelped and exited Manzanita trailside shrubs, she
ran toward me with the bear, possibly a young male, re-focused on me,
snarling and growling at my feet. I had hiking poles and was waving
them at him and screaming loudly as he charged. When he got very
close, I got my hiking poles in his face and continued yelling at the
top of my lungs. The dog, somewhere behind me, was awol, just as well.
I used the poles like the Kitsap fellow tried to use his bike. I'm 6'
3". After about a minute during which I thought there was a good
chance of him biting and clawing me, he backed slowly down the trail
and exited the way he came. I've hiked in bear habitat for forty years
and seen bears. I have a healthy respect for them but have not been
particularly fearful and take standard precautions. I believe this
bear was surprised by my dog and protecting his territory. Folks like
me have intruded on the bears over the years but I was within two
miles of my home and I don't plan on staying inside. I have added bear
spray to my shirt pocket and would have used it as he remained at
arm's length for some time during the encounter. Charlie Kehoe,
Ashland, OR

  #64  
Old September 17th 07, 04:12 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Mike Vandeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,798
Default Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 10:00:22 -0700, y_p_w wrote:

On Sep 14, 6:33 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:20:24 -0800, (Floyd L.
The fact is that an *intelligent* human *can* reason out
the fact that the bear is now very likely to be a
significant danger to humans. The only safe action for
humans is to kill that particular bear.


BS. If you are so smart, you should be able to figure out that ALL
bears are dangerous, and so you should stay out of their habitat. DUH!


Sure. Why didn't we already think of that? I guess we should all
start by vacating all of Yosemite, Yellowstone. Move people out of
their rural homes in Idaho, the Sierras, the Cascades, etc. I'll
probably should never go to Lake Tahoe again, since "bears are
dangerous". I guess the American Indians had it all wrong not getting
the heck out of areas where bears lived, which includes the Berkeley
Hills (where I live) and even as far as San Francisco in the early
1900's.

Heck - several black bears came into Reno, Nevada on occasion and
started raiding trash cans. I guess that's their habitat now. Better
move people out.

Seriously though (for people who can reason better than Vandeman) -
bears aren't statistically dangerous.


Then the people who were killed by bears aren't statistically dead!
But they still aren't coming back....

It's the rare case where bears
have the potential to cause harm to people. Black bears have
coexisted alongside people in North America for thousands of years,


That's nowhere long enough for the bears to evolve defenses against
humans and their weapons.

and there's not going to be some massive die-off because an animal is
alongside a human presence. It's respect that should minimize
potential harm to humans and bears, and not a separation of the
habitats of humans and bears. Fact is - people are living and
visiting in areas where bears live, and nothing is going to change
that. Most of the time, it's not an issue. In the rare case where a
bear does show the propensity to injure a person, I have no problem if
it is put down. I respect bears,


No, you don't. Yours is the same attitude that drove the California
grizzly extinct: "Humans ALWAYS come first"!

but I don't romanticize them as some
noble creature that must be preserved at all costs.

--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #65  
Old September 17th 07, 04:19 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Mike Vandeman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,798
Default Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 16:07:40 -0700, wrote:

On Sep 3, 9:23 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
What crime did the bear commit, that it deserves to die?! She was only
defending her cubs!

Mike

http://www.komotv.com/news/9538012.html:

Black bear attacks bicyclist in park

Story Published: Sep 2, 2007 at 4:14 PM PDT

Story Updated: Sep 3, 2007 at 7:33 AM PDT

By KOMO Staff

Watch the story
NEAR OLLALA, Wash. -- A man was attacked by a bear while mountain
biking in the Banner Forest Heritage Park just before noon on Sunday,
according to South Kitsap Fire and Rescue officials.

Spokesman Ron Powers said a 51-year-old Port Orchard man was biking
with his two dogs alongside him when the dogs ran ahead and around the
bend, then started barking fiercely. The man turned the bend and saw
the dogs were barking at a bear.

Powers said the bear immediately charged at the man, who tried to use
his bike to shield himself from the animal. But the bear managed to
injure the man's arm, back, neck and ear before he was able to get
back on his bike and ride away.

Down the path, the injured man ran into other mountain bikers, who
called 911.

The man was conscious and alert when he was taken to St. Joseph
Medical Center in Tacoma. The unidentified man is in serious
condition, but is expected to recover.

One of the man's dogs is still missing. It is not known whether the
dog suffered injuries during the attack. The second dog is said to be
OK.

Officials evacuated the park and shut it down in order to search for
the bear. Powers said if the bear is found, officials plan to kill it.
Officials said crews will search through the night until the bear is
found.

Another bicyclist who was at the park on Sunday told authorities he
saw mother bear and two cubs while riding on the trail.

Powers said Sunday's attack is a freak accident, stating black bears
rarely attack humans and, unless provoked or threatened, will run
away. The man or the dogs may have appeared as a threat to the bear,
who may have been protecting her cubs, Powers said.

Area resident Teri Nelson agrees, while bears are not uncommon at the
park, she didn't expect them to be aggressive.

"Attacking somebody would make me have second thoughts about walking
through this forest by myself," she said. "It's pretty scary."
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande


Hi, I'm new to this com method but have enjoyed the dialogue and wish
to add something. My Standard Poodle and I were attacked near Ashland,
OR on September 10th. I was returning from hiking a remote trail above
my home and the dog, unleashed and about 15 yards ahead, evidently
bumped into the bear and a short fight occurred. The dog has about 20
stictches in her left hind quarter but has pretty much recovered
already. As the dog yelped and exited Manzanita trailside shrubs, she
ran toward me with the bear, possibly a young male, re-focused on me,
snarling and growling at my feet. I had hiking poles and was waving
them at him and screaming loudly as he charged. When he got very
close, I got my hiking poles in his face and continued yelling at the
top of my lungs. The dog, somewhere behind me, was awol, just as well.
I used the poles like the Kitsap fellow tried to use his bike. I'm 6'
3". After about a minute during which I thought there was a good
chance of him biting and clawing me, he backed slowly down the trail
and exited the way he came. I've hiked in bear habitat for forty years
and seen bears. I have a healthy respect for them but have not been
particularly fearful and take standard precautions. I believe this
bear was surprised by my dog and protecting his territory. Folks like
me have intruded on the bears over the years but I was within two
miles of my home and I don't plan on staying inside.


Then don't plan on living too long. None of this would help you
against a bigger bear. By allowing your dog off-leash, and not backong
off, you are asking to be attacked.

I have added bear
spray to my shirt pocket and would have used it as he remained at
arm's length for some time during the encounter. Charlie Kehoe,
Ashland, OR

--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #66  
Old September 17th 07, 04:40 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
y_p_w
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 102
Default Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park

On Sep 17, 8:12 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 10:00:22 wrote:
On Sep 14, 6:33 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:20:24 -0800, (Floyd L.
The fact is that an *intelligent* human *can* reason out
the fact that the bear is now very likely to be a
significant danger to humans. The only safe action for
humans is to kill that particular bear.


BS. If you are so smart, you should be able to figure out that ALL
bears are dangerous, and so you should stay out of their habitat. DUH!


Sure. Why didn't we already think of that? I guess we should all
start by vacating all of Yosemite, Yellowstone. Move people out of
their rural homes in Idaho, the Sierras, the Cascades, etc. I'll
probably should never go to Lake Tahoe again, since "bears are
dangerous". I guess the American Indians had it all wrong not getting
the heck out of areas where bears lived, which includes the Berkeley
Hills (where I live) and even as far as San Francisco in the early
1900's.


Heck - several black bears came into Reno, Nevada on occasion and
started raiding trash cans. I guess that's their habitat now. Better
move people out.


Seriously though (for people who can reason better than Vandeman) -
bears aren't statistically dangerous.


Then the people who were killed by bears aren't statistically dead!
But they still aren't coming back....


The people killed by black bears are aberrations. Besides that,
there's never been a recorded case of a black bear ever killing a
person in California. If I were someone going backcountry camping or
mountain biking in the Cascades, Sierras, or Rockies, I'd be more
concerned with the possibility of a fatal traffic accident or
carjacking than a bear attack. Dying from a heart attack is more
likely.

It's the rare case where bears

have the potential to cause harm to people. Black bears have
coexisted alongside people in North America for thousands of years,


That's nowhere long enough for the bears to evolve defenses against
humans and their weapons.


Wha? I rolling my on my ass laughing so hard.

and there's not going to be some massive die-off because an animal is
alongside a human presence. It's respect that should minimize
potential harm to humans and bears, and not a separation of the
habitats of humans and bears. Fact is - people are living and
visiting in areas where bears live, and nothing is going to change
that. Most of the time, it's not an issue. In the rare case where a
bear does show the propensity to injure a person, I have no problem if
it is put down. I respect bears,


No, you don't. Yours is the same attitude that drove the California
grizzly extinct: "Humans ALWAYS come first"!


No. The attitude that people had to hunt everything because there was
supposedly an inexhaustible supply is what drove the California
grizzly extinct. The American black bear is nowhere near going
extinct. I'm not a big proponent of hunting for the sake of hunting.
However - I have no problem if a bear with a recognized potential to
harm humans is put down.

I do think it's tragic when a bear is killed. If I recall correctly,
the American Indian were known to "apologize" to their amimal
bretheren for hunting them.


  #67  
Old September 17th 07, 08:02 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
You
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park

In article .com,
wrote:

Hi, I'm new to this com method but have enjoyed the dialogue and wish
to add something. My Standard Poodle and I were attacked near Ashland,
OR on September 10th. I was returning from hiking a remote trail above
my home and the dog, unleashed and about 15 yards ahead, evidently
bumped into the bear and a short fight occurred. The dog has about 20
stictches in her left hind quarter but has pretty much recovered
already. As the dog yelped and exited Manzanita trailside shrubs, she
ran toward me with the bear, possibly a young male, re-focused on me,
snarling and growling at my feet. I had hiking poles and was waving
them at him and screaming loudly as he charged. When he got very
close, I got my hiking poles in his face and continued yelling at the
top of my lungs. The dog, somewhere behind me, was awol, just as well.
I used the poles like the Kitsap fellow tried to use his bike. I'm 6'
3". After about a minute during which I thought there was a good
chance of him biting and clawing me, he backed slowly down the trail
and exited the way he came. I've hiked in bear habitat for forty years
and seen bears. I have a healthy respect for them but have not been
particularly fearful and take standard precautions. I believe this
bear was surprised by my dog and protecting his territory. Folks like
me have intruded on the bears over the years but I was within two
miles of my home and I don't plan on staying inside. I have added bear
spray to my shirt pocket and would have used it as he remained at
arm's length for some time during the encounter. Charlie Kehoe,
Ashland, OR


Hmmm, Seems to "Me", that you should teach your Doggie, to heal,
and stay closer to you, while in the woods. Your encounter with
the the Black Bear, is one of many encounters, that are caused
by the same set of circumstances.

Doggie runs out of sight, of owner. Doggie encounters Bear. Doggie
Starts barking, and harassing Black Bear. Black Bear is startled, and
goes on defense, but can't catch the little pest. Black Bear finally
goes "Postal" and whacks Doggie with paw. Doggie learns Bears are
dangerous, and heads for Master, Post Haste. Enraged Black Bear chases
after Doggie, in Fullout Attack Mode. Master sees Doggie returning, with
Black Bear on it's trail, coming like a "Strong Wind on a Nasty Day".
Master dumps load in his/her shorts.

The ending of the senerio, is variable, depending on the stance of the
"Master", the bluff of the Bear, and the size, and age of the Bear.
It is about 50/50 if you get munched. Usually younger Male Black Bears
with little human interaction, will continue on, and munch you. Older
and more habituated Black Bears, will bluff charge, and then when
confronted with what they preceive as a "Bigger, Noisier, and Meaner,
Specie, will retreat.

Black Bear Software is really very primative, but when in Fullout
Attach Mode, Sensual Interupts are Masked, and it takes a BIG
Hardware Interupt, to break out of that Mode. Usually a Good Whack on
the Nose, does it, but there are instances, where that just doesn't
work, and then your LUNCH.

Charlie, you have no idea just how lucky you are...........
  #68  
Old September 17th 07, 09:51 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Jeff Strickland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 613
Default Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park

AS IT TURNS OUT, black bears are attacking all sorts of people these days.
It seems the bears are responding to a shortage in the food chain that has
resulted from several years of drought in the western states.



  #69  
Old September 18th 07, 03:02 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Ryan Robbins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 16
Default Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park


"Jeff Strickland" wrote in message
news:4NBHi.2751$io2.196@trnddc06...
AS IT TURNS OUT, black bears are attacking all sorts of people these days.


Really? And I take it that you're basing this assumption on a couple of news
reports which, by definition, report things that are unusual. Attacks by
black bears are rare. Fatal attacks are even rarer still. Here in Maine, we
have the largest black bear population east of the Mississippi. I don't
recall ever hearing of even so much as an attack by a black bear here. I
have had four black bear encounters since June, one only 25 feet from a
mother bear and her cub. And every time the bear didn't make any attempt to
attack. On three occasions, the bears took off. On one occasion, the bear
just kept eating nuts, not minding the discharge of my flash.


  #70  
Old September 18th 07, 04:13 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Puppet_Sock
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default Black bear attacks mountain biker in Washington State park

On Sep 17, 11:40 am, y_p_w wrote:
[snip]
The people killed by black bears are aberrations.


I think you mean to say that the killing of people
by black bears is an aberration, not that the people
are...

Oh. You were talking about Mickey.
Socks

 




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