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  #11  
Old November 8th 19, 09:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,297
Default Patent updates

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 10:57:07 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/8/2019 9:51 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 1:18:13 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:41:37 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 2:44:57 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/7/2019 4:30 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 11:31:54 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
We all pause to slap our foreheads.
WTF? These are patentable designs??

https://bikerumor.com/2019/11/04/pat...es-for-others/

I would wonder how you could ever thread a hose/outer cable through that much of a length of bike without an actual inside tube.


Depends on the frame and how much impedimenta is hidden
inside. On some, drop in wire or hose, catch it in one's
fingers through the big hole in front of the BB. For many,
neodymium magnets and a stiff poly wire are the quickest
solution. Others need something to pierce the swarf inside
like a 1/16" welding rod. Then there are the odd frames now
and again which just resist cable/hose installation for no
good reason and tick off the mechanic.

Typical tool:
https://jagwire.com/products/tools/i...l-routing-tool

If you're doing a bare frame, it's a PITA but not horrible. It is horrible if you're trying to snake a Di2 wire or hose or cable through a crowded DT into a little passage under the BB with existing cables/hoses/wires. And let's see what's behind door number one! https://tinyurl.com/yy9xwxwb This is the great time suck with modern bikes -- along with hidden nipples in pre-fab wheels and a few other annoyances.

-- Jay Beattie.

-- Jay Beattie.

Last week I replaced for the first time the inner cables of the front and rear derailleur of my internal routed Canyon frame. It was very easy. The frame has a big removable plastic cap on the bottom of the bottom bracket shell with the cable guides integrated. I removed the cranks and put a liner (a piece of the smallest shrink tube) from the RD side over the old cable to the BB shell in the horizontal chainstay. After that it is a piece of cake.

Lou


Changing a cable isn't terrible. On my Norco, for example, the RD cable is all in housing. Installing the housing is a PITA getting it through the chain stay, but once in, cable replacement is easy. The FD cable is in housing from the lever to the DT, but then it stops and runs bare through the frame. My technique for running the FD cable is to pull the old cable just a bit out of the lever, cut off the button, pull off the outer housing and then I cut off a cable end cap so it has a hole in both ends, put the new cable through the lever, through the housing and crimp it to old cable with the cable cap and then just pull it through the frame. The openings are big enough to accommodate the cable cap, and then I just clip it off since there is so much excess cable anyway. I suppose I could use shrink wrap to join the cable for the pull, but I've never tried that. Running a new hydraulic hose or cable housing can be a pain depending on the frame and circumstances. My worst experience was running a new hose through a Roubaix when I couldn't use the old hose to pull because the meth-heads who stole the bike (the police brought it back) had cut the rear tube and shoved the end in the stay.


I don't doubt that there are many clever ways of fishing cables through
frame tubes. But isn't it amazing what people will put up with for
aesthetics?


Aesthetics in part -- IMO, it also has to do with manufacturing ease. It's easy to put a hole and grommet in a CF frame rather than gluing or riveting a stop onto the frame. One upside is less rear brake cable slap on bikes with cable stops, like my old SuperSix. https://tinyurl.com/y4qqj7fk Otherwise, its much easier to slap-together a bike with open cable runs.

-- Jay Beattie.
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  #12  
Old November 8th 19, 09:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 500
Default Patent updates

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 7:57:07 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/8/2019 9:51 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 1:18:13 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:41:37 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 2:44:57 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/7/2019 4:30 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 11:31:54 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
We all pause to slap our foreheads.
WTF? These are patentable designs??

https://bikerumor.com/2019/11/04/pat...es-for-others/

I would wonder how you could ever thread a hose/outer cable through that much of a length of bike without an actual inside tube.


Depends on the frame and how much impedimenta is hidden
inside. On some, drop in wire or hose, catch it in one's
fingers through the big hole in front of the BB. For many,
neodymium magnets and a stiff poly wire are the quickest
solution. Others need something to pierce the swarf inside
like a 1/16" welding rod. Then there are the odd frames now
and again which just resist cable/hose installation for no
good reason and tick off the mechanic.

Typical tool:
https://jagwire.com/products/tools/i...l-routing-tool

If you're doing a bare frame, it's a PITA but not horrible. It is horrible if you're trying to snake a Di2 wire or hose or cable through a crowded DT into a little passage under the BB with existing cables/hoses/wires. And let's see what's behind door number one! https://tinyurl.com/yy9xwxwb This is the great time suck with modern bikes -- along with hidden nipples in pre-fab wheels and a few other annoyances.

-- Jay Beattie.

-- Jay Beattie.

Last week I replaced for the first time the inner cables of the front and rear derailleur of my internal routed Canyon frame. It was very easy. The frame has a big removable plastic cap on the bottom of the bottom bracket shell with the cable guides integrated. I removed the cranks and put a liner (a piece of the smallest shrink tube) from the RD side over the old cable to the BB shell in the horizontal chainstay. After that it is a piece of cake.

Lou


Changing a cable isn't terrible. On my Norco, for example, the RD cable is all in housing. Installing the housing is a PITA getting it through the chain stay, but once in, cable replacement is easy. The FD cable is in housing from the lever to the DT, but then it stops and runs bare through the frame. My technique for running the FD cable is to pull the old cable just a bit out of the lever, cut off the button, pull off the outer housing and then I cut off a cable end cap so it has a hole in both ends, put the new cable through the lever, through the housing and crimp it to old cable with the cable cap and then just pull it through the frame. The openings are big enough to accommodate the cable cap, and then I just clip it off since there is so much excess cable anyway. I suppose I could use shrink wrap to join the cable for the pull, but I've never tried that. Running a new hydraulic hose or cable housing can be a pain depending on the frame and circumstances. My worst experience was running a new hose through a Roubaix when I couldn't use the old hose to pull because the meth-heads who stole the bike (the police brought it back) had cut the rear tube and shoved the end in the stay.


I don't doubt that there are many clever ways of fishing cables through
frame tubes. But isn't it amazing what people will put up with for
aesthetics?


--
- Frank Krygowski


Well, lets see this was the first time I changed the cables in 5 years and it went pretty easy even with the removal of the crankset which is also pretty easy with the modern cranksets. So I think I can live with this little inconvenience for a cleaner look. Personally I find touring bikes incredibly ugly with all that bolted on junk but I don't have to ride one so I won't make a remark when it pops up here.

Lou

Lou
  #13  
Old November 9th 19, 12:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,621
Default Patent updates

On Friday, 8 November 2019 15:28:22 UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 7:57:07 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/8/2019 9:51 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 1:18:13 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:41:37 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 2:44:57 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/7/2019 4:30 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 11:31:54 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
We all pause to slap our foreheads.
WTF? These are patentable designs??

https://bikerumor.com/2019/11/04/pat...es-for-others/

I would wonder how you could ever thread a hose/outer cable through that much of a length of bike without an actual inside tube.


Depends on the frame and how much impedimenta is hidden
inside. On some, drop in wire or hose, catch it in one's
fingers through the big hole in front of the BB. For many,
neodymium magnets and a stiff poly wire are the quickest
solution. Others need something to pierce the swarf inside
like a 1/16" welding rod. Then there are the odd frames now
and again which just resist cable/hose installation for no
good reason and tick off the mechanic.

Typical tool:
https://jagwire.com/products/tools/i...l-routing-tool

If you're doing a bare frame, it's a PITA but not horrible. It is horrible if you're trying to snake a Di2 wire or hose or cable through a crowded DT into a little passage under the BB with existing cables/hoses/wires. And let's see what's behind door number one! https://tinyurl.com/yy9xwxwb This is the great time suck with modern bikes -- along with hidden nipples in pre-fab wheels and a few other annoyances.

-- Jay Beattie.

-- Jay Beattie.

Last week I replaced for the first time the inner cables of the front and rear derailleur of my internal routed Canyon frame. It was very easy. The frame has a big removable plastic cap on the bottom of the bottom bracket shell with the cable guides integrated. I removed the cranks and put a liner (a piece of the smallest shrink tube) from the RD side over the old cable to the BB shell in the horizontal chainstay. After that it is a piece of cake.

Lou

Changing a cable isn't terrible. On my Norco, for example, the RD cable is all in housing. Installing the housing is a PITA getting it through the chain stay, but once in, cable replacement is easy. The FD cable is in housing from the lever to the DT, but then it stops and runs bare through the frame. My technique for running the FD cable is to pull the old cable just a bit out of the lever, cut off the button, pull off the outer housing and then I cut off a cable end cap so it has a hole in both ends, put the new cable through the lever, through the housing and crimp it to old cable with the cable cap and then just pull it through the frame. The openings are big enough to accommodate the cable cap, and then I just clip it off since there is so much excess cable anyway. I suppose I could use shrink wrap to join the cable for the pull, but I've never tried that. Running a new hydraulic hose or cable housing can be a pain depending on the frame and circumstances. My worst experience was running a new hose through a Roubaix when I couldn't use the old hose to pull because the meth-heads who stole the bike (the police brought it back) had cut the rear tube and shoved the end in the stay.


I don't doubt that there are many clever ways of fishing cables through
frame tubes. But isn't it amazing what people will put up with for
aesthetics?


--
- Frank Krygowski


Well, lets see this was the first time I changed the cables in 5 years and it went pretty easy even with the removal of the crankset which is also pretty easy with the modern cranksets. So I think I can live with this little inconvenience for a cleaner look. Personally I find touring bikes incredibly ugly with all that bolted on junk but I don't have to ride one so I won't make a remark when it pops up here.

Lou

Lou


YMMV, but I'd not want a bicycle where I had to remove the crankset in order to install a cable or a cable housing. That you have to do that is just - WOW!

Cheers
  #14  
Old November 9th 19, 12:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,875
Default Patent updates

On 11/8/2019 5:04 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 8 November 2019 15:28:22 UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 7:57:07 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/8/2019 9:51 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 1:18:13 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:41:37 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 2:44:57 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/7/2019 4:30 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 11:31:54 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
We all pause to slap our foreheads.
WTF? These are patentable designs??

https://bikerumor.com/2019/11/04/pat...es-for-others/

I would wonder how you could ever thread a hose/outer cable through that much of a length of bike without an actual inside tube.


Depends on the frame and how much impedimenta is hidden
inside. On some, drop in wire or hose, catch it in one's
fingers through the big hole in front of the BB. For many,
neodymium magnets and a stiff poly wire are the quickest
solution. Others need something to pierce the swarf inside
like a 1/16" welding rod. Then there are the odd frames now
and again which just resist cable/hose installation for no
good reason and tick off the mechanic.

Typical tool:
https://jagwire.com/products/tools/i...l-routing-tool

If you're doing a bare frame, it's a PITA but not horrible. It is horrible if you're trying to snake a Di2 wire or hose or cable through a crowded DT into a little passage under the BB with existing cables/hoses/wires. And let's see what's behind door number one! https://tinyurl.com/yy9xwxwb This is the great time suck with modern bikes -- along with hidden nipples in pre-fab wheels and a few other annoyances.


Last week I replaced for the first time the inner cables of the front and rear derailleur of my internal routed Canyon frame. It was very easy. The frame has a big removable plastic cap on the bottom of the bottom bracket shell with the cable guides integrated. I removed the cranks and put a liner (a piece of the smallest shrink tube) from the RD side over the old cable to the BB shell in the horizontal chainstay. After that it is a piece of cake.



Changing a cable isn't terrible. On my Norco, for example, the RD cable is all in housing. Installing the housing is a PITA getting it through the chain stay, but once in, cable replacement is easy. The FD cable is in housing from the lever to the DT, but then it stops and runs bare through the frame. My technique for running the FD cable is to pull the old cable just a bit out of the lever, cut off the button, pull off the outer housing and then I cut off a cable end cap so it has a hole in both ends, put the new cable through the lever, through the housing and crimp it to old cable with the cable cap and then just pull it through the frame. The openings are big enough to accommodate the cable cap, and then I just clip it off since there is so much excess cable anyway. I suppose I could use shrink wrap to join the cable for the pull, but I've never tried that. Running a new hydraulic hose or cable housing can be a pain depending on the frame and circumstances. My worst exp

erience was running a new hose through a Roubaix when I couldn't use the old hose to pull because the meth-heads who stole the bike (the police brought it back) had cut the rear tube and shoved the end in the stay.

I don't doubt that there are many clever ways of fishing cables through
frame tubes. But isn't it amazing what people will put up with for
aesthetics?



Well, lets see this was the first time I changed the cables in 5 years and it went pretty easy even with the removal of the crankset which is also pretty easy with the modern cranksets. So I think I can live with this little inconvenience for a cleaner look. Personally I find touring bikes incredibly ugly with all that bolted on junk but I don't have to ride one so I won't make a remark when it pops up here.


YMMV, but I'd not want a bicycle where I had to remove the crankset in order to install a cable or a cable housing. That you have to do that is just - WOW!



Not a new problem. 1984 Panasonic Team, among many others:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/pta4.jpg

Oh, and modern carbon frames have internal control lines in
part because the previous format, glue-on cable stops, were
found unworthy.

Aesthetics do play a part but IMHO aesthetic trends _follow_
major manufacturer flailings at solutions to various problems.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #15  
Old November 9th 19, 12:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,297
Default Patent updates

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:28:22 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 7:57:07 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/8/2019 9:51 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 1:18:13 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:41:37 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 2:44:57 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/7/2019 4:30 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 11:31:54 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
We all pause to slap our foreheads.
WTF? These are patentable designs??

https://bikerumor.com/2019/11/04/pat...es-for-others/

I would wonder how you could ever thread a hose/outer cable through that much of a length of bike without an actual inside tube.


Depends on the frame and how much impedimenta is hidden
inside. On some, drop in wire or hose, catch it in one's
fingers through the big hole in front of the BB. For many,
neodymium magnets and a stiff poly wire are the quickest
solution. Others need something to pierce the swarf inside
like a 1/16" welding rod. Then there are the odd frames now
and again which just resist cable/hose installation for no
good reason and tick off the mechanic.

Typical tool:
https://jagwire.com/products/tools/i...l-routing-tool

If you're doing a bare frame, it's a PITA but not horrible. It is horrible if you're trying to snake a Di2 wire or hose or cable through a crowded DT into a little passage under the BB with existing cables/hoses/wires. And let's see what's behind door number one! https://tinyurl.com/yy9xwxwb This is the great time suck with modern bikes -- along with hidden nipples in pre-fab wheels and a few other annoyances.

-- Jay Beattie.

-- Jay Beattie.

Last week I replaced for the first time the inner cables of the front and rear derailleur of my internal routed Canyon frame. It was very easy. The frame has a big removable plastic cap on the bottom of the bottom bracket shell with the cable guides integrated. I removed the cranks and put a liner (a piece of the smallest shrink tube) from the RD side over the old cable to the BB shell in the horizontal chainstay. After that it is a piece of cake.

Lou

Changing a cable isn't terrible. On my Norco, for example, the RD cable is all in housing. Installing the housing is a PITA getting it through the chain stay, but once in, cable replacement is easy. The FD cable is in housing from the lever to the DT, but then it stops and runs bare through the frame. My technique for running the FD cable is to pull the old cable just a bit out of the lever, cut off the button, pull off the outer housing and then I cut off a cable end cap so it has a hole in both ends, put the new cable through the lever, through the housing and crimp it to old cable with the cable cap and then just pull it through the frame. The openings are big enough to accommodate the cable cap, and then I just clip it off since there is so much excess cable anyway. I suppose I could use shrink wrap to join the cable for the pull, but I've never tried that. Running a new hydraulic hose or cable housing can be a pain depending on the frame and circumstances. My worst experience was running a new hose through a Roubaix when I couldn't use the old hose to pull because the meth-heads who stole the bike (the police brought it back) had cut the rear tube and shoved the end in the stay.


I don't doubt that there are many clever ways of fishing cables through
frame tubes. But isn't it amazing what people will put up with for
aesthetics?


--
- Frank Krygowski


Well, lets see this was the first time I changed the cables in 5 years and it went pretty easy even with the removal of the crankset which is also pretty easy with the modern cranksets. So I think I can live with this little inconvenience for a cleaner look. Personally I find touring bikes incredibly ugly with all that bolted on junk but I don't have to ride one so I won't make a remark when it pops up here.

Lou


BTW, another upside to the "behind door number one" approach is that the BB guide doesn't get all muddy, and the cables don't stick, causing ghost shifting. On my Norco, the cables do not run through the BB but rather go under the BB insert, e.g. https://i1.wp.com/capovelo.com/wp-co...size=950%2C547

-- Jay Beattie

  #16  
Old November 9th 19, 09:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 500
Default Patent updates

On Saturday, November 9, 2019 at 12:04:03 AM UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 8 November 2019 15:28:22 UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 7:57:07 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/8/2019 9:51 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 1:18:13 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:41:37 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 2:44:57 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/7/2019 4:30 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 11:31:54 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
We all pause to slap our foreheads.
WTF? These are patentable designs??

https://bikerumor.com/2019/11/04/pat...es-for-others/

I would wonder how you could ever thread a hose/outer cable through that much of a length of bike without an actual inside tube.


Depends on the frame and how much impedimenta is hidden
inside. On some, drop in wire or hose, catch it in one's
fingers through the big hole in front of the BB. For many,
neodymium magnets and a stiff poly wire are the quickest
solution. Others need something to pierce the swarf inside
like a 1/16" welding rod. Then there are the odd frames now
and again which just resist cable/hose installation for no
good reason and tick off the mechanic.

Typical tool:
https://jagwire.com/products/tools/i...l-routing-tool

If you're doing a bare frame, it's a PITA but not horrible. It is horrible if you're trying to snake a Di2 wire or hose or cable through a crowded DT into a little passage under the BB with existing cables/hoses/wires. And let's see what's behind door number one! https://tinyurl.com/yy9xwxwb This is the great time suck with modern bikes -- along with hidden nipples in pre-fab wheels and a few other annoyances.

-- Jay Beattie.

-- Jay Beattie.

Last week I replaced for the first time the inner cables of the front and rear derailleur of my internal routed Canyon frame. It was very easy. The frame has a big removable plastic cap on the bottom of the bottom bracket shell with the cable guides integrated. I removed the cranks and put a liner (a piece of the smallest shrink tube) from the RD side over the old cable to the BB shell in the horizontal chainstay. After that it is a piece of cake.

Lou

Changing a cable isn't terrible. On my Norco, for example, the RD cable is all in housing. Installing the housing is a PITA getting it through the chain stay, but once in, cable replacement is easy. The FD cable is in housing from the lever to the DT, but then it stops and runs bare through the frame. My technique for running the FD cable is to pull the old cable just a bit out of the lever, cut off the button, pull off the outer housing and then I cut off a cable end cap so it has a hole in both ends, put the new cable through the lever, through the housing and crimp it to old cable with the cable cap and then just pull it through the frame. The openings are big enough to accommodate the cable cap, and then I just clip it off since there is so much excess cable anyway. I suppose I could use shrink wrap to join the cable for the pull, but I've never tried that. Running a new hydraulic hose or cable housing can be a pain depending on the frame and circumstances. My worst experience was running a new hose through a Roubaix when I couldn't use the old hose to pull because the meth-heads who stole the bike (the police brought it back) had cut the rear tube and shoved the end in the stay.

I don't doubt that there are many clever ways of fishing cables through
frame tubes. But isn't it amazing what people will put up with for
aesthetics?


--
- Frank Krygowski


Well, lets see this was the first time I changed the cables in 5 years and it went pretty easy even with the removal of the crankset which is also pretty easy with the modern cranksets. So I think I can live with this little inconvenience for a cleaner look. Personally I find touring bikes incredibly ugly with all that bolted on junk but I don't have to ride one so I won't make a remark when it pops up here.

Lou

Lou


YMMV, but I'd not want a bicycle where I had to remove the crankset in order to install a cable or a cable housing. That you have to do that is just - WOW!

Cheers


Well you don't have to but then you have to fiddle a lot more to get the cables installed. Since inspecting your crankset and bearings from time to time is always wise and the fact that the modern cranksets are removed and installed in minutes this is my preferred option now.

Lou
  #17  
Old November 9th 19, 04:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,798
Default Patent updates

On 11/8/2019 3:28 PM, wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 7:57:07 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 11/8/2019 9:51 AM, jbeattie wrote:

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 1:18:13 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:41:37 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 2:44:57 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/7/2019 4:30 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 11:31:54 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
We all pause to slap our foreheads.
WTF? These are patentable designs??

https://bikerumor.com/2019/11/04/pat...es-for-others/

I would wonder how you could ever thread a hose/outer cable through that much of a length of bike without an actual inside tube.


Depends on the frame and how much impedimenta is hidden
inside. On some, drop in wire or hose, catch it in one's
fingers through the big hole in front of the BB. For many,
neodymium magnets and a stiff poly wire are the quickest
solution. Others need something to pierce the swarf inside
like a 1/16" welding rod. Then there are the odd frames now
and again which just resist cable/hose installation for no
good reason and tick off the mechanic.

Typical tool:
https://jagwire.com/products/tools/i...l-routing-tool

If you're doing a bare frame, it's a PITA but not horrible. It is horrible if you're trying to snake a Di2 wire or hose or cable through a crowded DT into a little passage under the BB with existing cables/hoses/wires. And let's see what's behind door number one! https://tinyurl.com/yy9xwxwb This is the great time suck with modern bikes -- along with hidden nipples in pre-fab wheels and a few other annoyances.

-- Jay Beattie.

-- Jay Beattie.

Last week I replaced for the first time the inner cables of the front and rear derailleur of my internal routed Canyon frame. It was very easy. The frame has a big removable plastic cap on the bottom of the bottom bracket shell with the cable guides integrated. I removed the cranks and put a liner (a piece of the smallest shrink tube) from the RD side over the old cable to the BB shell in the horizontal chainstay. After that it is a piece of cake.

Lou

Changing a cable isn't terrible. On my Norco, for example, the RD cable is all in housing. Installing the housing is a PITA getting it through the chain stay, but once in, cable replacement is easy. The FD cable is in housing from the lever to the DT, but then it stops and runs bare through the frame. My technique for running the FD cable is to pull the old cable just a bit out of the lever, cut off the button, pull off the outer housing and then I cut off a cable end cap so it has a hole in both ends, put the new cable through the lever, through the housing and crimp it to old cable with the cable cap and then just pull it through the frame. The openings are big enough to accommodate the cable cap, and then I just clip it off since there is so much excess cable anyway. I suppose I could use shrink wrap to join the cable for the pull, but I've never tried that. Running a new hydraulic hose or cable housing can be a pain depending on the frame and circumstances. My worst experience was running a new hose through a Roubaix when I couldn't use the old hose to pull because the meth-heads who stole the bike (the police brought it back) had cut the rear tube and shoved the end in the stay.


I don't doubt that there are many clever ways of fishing cables through
frame tubes. But isn't it amazing what people will put up with for
aesthetics?


--
- Frank Krygowski


Well, lets see this was the first time I changed the cables in 5 years and it went pretty easy even with the removal of the crankset which is also pretty easy with the modern cranksets. So I think I can live with this little inconvenience for a cleaner look. Personally I find touring bikes incredibly ugly with all that bolted on junk but I don't have to ride one so I won't make a remark when it pops up here.


Tastes vary, of course. And they're greatly affected by one's personal
interests.

When I was young, just discovering bicycling and a bit interested in
racing, I thought the most beautiful bikes were pared-to-the-minimum
racing bikes. But after a while, those all began to look the same to me.
(Yawn - another bike with spider web wheels and holes drilled in the
shift levers.)

These days I'm more likely to stop and inspect a well-used touring bike
or cargo bike, especially if it has custom features. Modern racing bikes
look so... well, so plastic!

But I do think steel frame fixies look cool. Now _that's_ minimalist!

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #18  
Old November 9th 19, 05:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,416
Default Patent updates

On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 11:51:27 PM UTC, James wrote:
On 8/11/19 6:31 am, AMuzi wrote:
We all pause to slap our foreheads.
WTF? These are patentable designs??

https://bikerumor.com/2019/11/04/pat...es-for-others/


Oh how I long for all electric wireless brakes and gears.

--
JS


Preferably radio controlled. The wiring on my Trek Smover with electronic gear changing and suspension was a pain to turn into a neat installation. Eventually I took a piece of spiral cable tidy from my study to my bike and solved the problem by folding up the surplus wire in the spiral tidy, painted bike colour. Radio control would solve all these problems, though it may of course bring others with it.

Andre Jute
I'm not obsessive, but tidiness costs nothing and avoids confusion
  #19  
Old November 9th 19, 05:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,416
Default Patent updates

On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 8:28:22 PM UTC, wrote:

Personally I find touring bikes incredibly ugly with all that bolted on junk but I don't have to ride one so I won't make a remark when it pops up here.

Lou


Touring cyclists have their own aesthetic, and they are very attached to their principles as expressed in what you call "bolted-on junk". I'm not defending them one way or the other, just pointing out that they have reasonable, logical preferences to do with they style of cycling. On their behalf, I thank you for your good manners in not mentioning it.

To me the peloton on their drops with their arses in the air look like a bunch of gorillas in too-small cages, but I won't be mentioning it to them either. I don't expect them to share my aesthetic that machines should serve man, not be designed so badly that man must contort himself to the machine.

Andre Jute
Horses for courses
  #20  
Old November 9th 19, 06:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,875
Default Patent updates

On 11/9/2019 9:44 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/8/2019 3:28 PM, wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 7:57:07 PM UTC+1, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
On 11/8/2019 9:51 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 1:18:13 AM UTC-8,
wrote:
On Friday, November 8, 2019 at 12:41:37 AM UTC+1,
jbeattie wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 2:44:57 PM UTC-8,
AMuzi wrote:
On 11/7/2019 4:30 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 11:31:54 AM UTC-8,
AMuzi wrote:
We all pause to slap our foreheads.
WTF? These are patentable designs??

https://bikerumor.com/2019/11/04/pat...es-for-others/


I would wonder how you could ever thread a
hose/outer cable through that much of a length of
bike without an actual inside tube.


Depends on the frame and how much impedimenta is hidden
inside. On some, drop in wire or hose, catch it in one's
fingers through the big hole in front of the BB. For
many,
neodymium magnets and a stiff poly wire are the quickest
solution. Others need something to pierce the swarf
inside
like a 1/16" welding rod. Then there are the odd
frames now
and again which just resist cable/hose installation
for no
good reason and tick off the mechanic.

Typical tool:
https://jagwire.com/products/tools/i...l-routing-tool

If you're doing a bare frame, it's a PITA but not
horrible. It is horrible if you're trying to snake a
Di2 wire or hose or cable through a crowded DT into a
little passage under the BB with existing
cables/hoses/wires. And let's see what's behind door
number one! https://tinyurl.com/yy9xwxwb This is the
great time suck with modern bikes -- along with hidden
nipples in pre-fab wheels and a few other annoyances.

-- Jay Beattie.

-- Jay Beattie.

Last week I replaced for the first time the inner
cables of the front and rear derailleur of my internal
routed Canyon frame. It was very easy. The frame has a
big removable plastic cap on the bottom of the bottom
bracket shell with the cable guides integrated. I
removed the cranks and put a liner (a piece of the
smallest shrink tube) from the RD side over the old
cable to the BB shell in the horizontal chainstay.
After that it is a piece of cake.

Lou

Changing a cable isn't terrible. On my Norco, for
example, the RD cable is all in housing. Installing the
housing is a PITA getting it through the chain stay, but
once in, cable replacement is easy. The FD cable is in
housing from the lever to the DT, but then it stops and
runs bare through the frame. My technique for running
the FD cable is to pull the old cable just a bit out of
the lever, cut off the button, pull off the outer
housing and then I cut off a cable end cap so it has a
hole in both ends, put the new cable through the lever,
through the housing and crimp it to old cable with the
cable cap and then just pull it through the frame. The
openings are big enough to accommodate the cable cap,
and then I just clip it off since there is so much
excess cable anyway. I suppose I could use shrink wrap
to join the cable for the pull, but I've never tried
that. Running a new hydraulic hose or cable housing can
be a pain depending on the frame and circumstances. My
worst experience was running a new hose through a
Roubaix when I couldn't use the old hose to pull because
the meth-heads who stole the bike (the police brought it
back) had cut the rear tube and shoved the end in the stay.

I don't doubt that there are many clever ways of fishing
cables through
frame tubes. But isn't it amazing what people will put up
with for
aesthetics?


--
- Frank Krygowski


Well, lets see this was the first time I changed the
cables in 5 years and it went pretty easy even with the
removal of the crankset which is also pretty easy with the
modern cranksets. So I think I can live with this little
inconvenience for a cleaner look. Personally I find
touring bikes incredibly ugly with all that bolted on junk
but I don't have to ride one so I won't make a remark when
it pops up here.


Tastes vary, of course. And they're greatly affected by
one's personal interests.

When I was young, just discovering bicycling and a bit
interested in racing, I thought the most beautiful bikes
were pared-to-the-minimum racing bikes. But after a while,
those all began to look the same to me. (Yawn - another bike
with spider web wheels and holes drilled in the shift levers.)

These days I'm more likely to stop and inspect a well-used
touring bike or cargo bike, especially if it has custom
features. Modern racing bikes look so... well, so plastic!

But I do think steel frame fixies look cool. Now _that's_
minimalist!


When we were young, top racing bicycles were notable for
having no brazed bits, unlike 'cheap' ten speeders. The
popular theory was that brazing a bottle or shift mount
'weakened' the frame. So the popular aesthetic was a pile of
sloppy steel clamps with crappy screws. That changed.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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