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#32
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New Trek Pricing
On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 18:19:51 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 1:10:00 AM UTC-5, jOHN b. wrote: When I was first married I used to give my wife 500 baht (about US$ 25.00 at the time) a month to run the house, pay the lights and water, etc. Now... I give her about US$775 for the same purpose. cheers, John B. You still have a wife? I'm guessing your wife is NOT American or western European or from any modern, civilized, democratic, rich type country. I ride with a bunch of dirty old men. All married. I'm guessing their wives would whip the hide off their arse if they tried anything like that. Why? Good Lord, how much does it take you people run a house? Lights, water, garbage, maid service, etc.? -- cheers, John B. |
#33
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New Trek Pricing
On Saturday, April 6, 2019 at 3:57:47 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
What Trek doesn't have is sex appeal and European cachet. Rubbish. My Smover, with a fully automatic gearbox and electronic active suspension, is a Trek, engineered by Trek's Benelux Division. It is not only technically advanced but very elegant too; the local cafe racers drooled over it. Trek has plenty of European cachet and sex appeal; they just don't bother trying to sell it to Americans because the American market is -- how to put this politely? -- stuck in the Peugeot ten-speed era. BTW, when I reengineered my Smover to better fit a hedonist's priorities, Trek's European office gave me their enthusiastic support, advice and components; it was a very happy purchase of a bike so rare and wonderful it could easily have become an inoperable waste of money. I conclude that the legendary Trek service applies to Europe no less than to the States. Andre Jute Credit where it is due |
#34
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New Trek Pricing
On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 1:58:12 AM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 07 Apr 2019 10:09:22 +0700, wrote: There is a law that covers a "Made in U.S.A." statement. From memory it doesn't mean that the entire thing was made in the U.S. but that the majority was, or something of that nature. "Complying with the Made in USA Standard" https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard Marketers and manufacturers that promote their products as Made in USA must meet the "all or virtually all" standard. Note that this document was scribbled in 1998 and is probably in need of revision. So the "Designed in Wisconsin" probably means that the design and specifications were done there and the actual manufacturing done elsewhere. https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-made-usa-standard Example: A company designs a product in New York City and sends the blueprint to a factory in Finland for manufacturing. It labels the product "Designed in USA - Made in Finland." Such a specific processing claim would not lead a reasonable consumer to believe that the whole product was made in the U.S. The Customs Service requires the product to be marked "Made in," or "Product of" Finland since the product is of Finnish origin and the claim refers to the U.S. Actually this type of design - manufacture process is not uncommon. Caterpillar, for example, manufacturers several types of their equipment in Indonesia, Cummins makes several models of their diesel engines in China, and so on. Both Cat and Cummins give exactly the same guarantee for the Asian made equipment as they do for the U.S. made. I would think that Trek should have labeled their bicycles as "Made in China - Designed in Wisconsin". "Are Trek Bikes Made in the USA"? https://allamericanreviews.com/trek/ -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 Apple, whose phones, tablets, computers, etc are made in China, describe them as "Designed in California". I can't for a moment imagine they'd do that, and get away with it, if it were not legal. AJ |
#35
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New Trek Pricing
On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 20:13:49 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
wrote: Apple, whose phones, tablets, computers, etc are made in China, describe them as "Designed in California". I can't for a moment imagine they'd do that, and get away with it, if it were not legal. AJ "Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'It's Not True That the iPhone is Not Made in the United States'" https://www.macrumors.com/2018/03/28/tim-cook-iphone-us-manufacturing/ "Where Is the iPhone Made?" https://www.lifewire.com/where-is-the-iphone-made-1999503 "Made in USA" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_USA "The Meaning of Made in U.S.A." https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44755.pdf As near as I can tell, the only real importance to where something is "made" is in the setting any import duties. If something were actually made in the USA, sent to a foreign country for additional work, and then returned to the USA, there would be no import duties on the part made in the USA. It therefore pays to mark a product "Made in U.S.A." As shown in the "The meaning of Made in U.S.A." document, major parts of the FTC labeling guidelines are obsolete and in need of revision. As near as I can tell from some quick reading, the only item of importance is the country of origin inscribed on the shipping manifests and customs papers, which are what sets the import duties. How the manufacturer labels their products seems to be their business, as long they don't try to claim that it's made in USA when it might be customs fraud. In other words, "Designed in California" means nothing to the customs people. "Made on Planet Earth" would probably be more informative. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#36
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New Trek Pricing
On Mon, 08 Apr 2019 21:25:14 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote: On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 20:13:49 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute wrote: Apple, whose phones, tablets, computers, etc are made in China, describe them as "Designed in California". I can't for a moment imagine they'd do that, and get away with it, if it were not legal. AJ "Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'It's Not True That the iPhone is Not Made in the United States'" https://www.macrumors.com/2018/03/28/tim-cook-iphone-us-manufacturing/ "Where Is the iPhone Made?" https://www.lifewire.com/where-is-the-iphone-made-1999503 "Made in USA" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_USA "The Meaning of Made in U.S.A." https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44755.pdf As far back as the Apple II they were making stuff in foreign countries. I owned an Apple II marked "Made in Ireland". As near as I can tell, the only real importance to where something is "made" is in the setting any import duties. If something were actually made in the USA, sent to a foreign country for additional work, and then returned to the USA, there would be no import duties on the part made in the USA. It therefore pays to mark a product "Made in U.S.A." As shown in the "The meaning of Made in U.S.A." document, major parts of the FTC labeling guidelines are obsolete and in need of revision. As near as I can tell from some quick reading, the only item of importance is the country of origin inscribed on the shipping manifests and customs papers, which are what sets the import duties. How the manufacturer labels their products seems to be their business, as long they don't try to claim that it's made in USA when it might be customs fraud. In other words, "Designed in California" means nothing to the customs people. "Made on Planet Earth" would probably be more informative. -- cheers, John B. |
#37
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New Trek Pricing
On Tuesday, April 9, 2019 at 5:25:12 AM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 20:13:49 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute wrote: Apple, whose phones, tablets, computers, etc are made in China, describe them as "Designed in California". I can't for a moment imagine they'd do that, and get away with it, if it were not legal. AJ "Apple CEO Tim Cook: 'It's Not True That the iPhone is Not Made in the United States'" https://www.macrumors.com/2018/03/28/tim-cook-iphone-us-manufacturing/ "Where Is the iPhone Made?" https://www.lifewire.com/where-is-the-iphone-made-1999503 "Made in USA" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_USA "The Meaning of Made in U.S.A." https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44755.pdf As near as I can tell, the only real importance to where something is "made" is in the setting any import duties. If something were actually made in the USA, sent to a foreign country for additional work, and then returned to the USA, there would be no import duties on the part made in the USA. It therefore pays to mark a product "Made in U.S.A." As shown in the "The meaning of Made in U.S.A." document, major parts of the FTC labeling guidelines are obsolete and in need of revision. As near as I can tell from some quick reading, the only item of importance is the country of origin inscribed on the shipping manifests and customs papers, which are what sets the import duties. How the manufacturer labels their products seems to be their business, as long they don't try to claim that it's made in USA when it might be customs fraud. In other words, "Designed in California" means nothing to the customs people. "Made on Planet Earth" would probably be more informative. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 There was a time when "Made in the USA" meant something: simple, reliable engineering that could be repaired without access to a fully furnished engineering shop (which is where German gear fell flat). I'm rather surprised that US companies don't try to protect what could be a super-trademark in these days when even pasties (a small crusted pie with meat of uncertain provenance and some root vegetables inside) are protected by law this side of the water. Thanks for the info, your usual thorough job, Jeff. Andre Jute PS The fellow from Thailand is right; I saw what must have been the last Apple IIs and the early upright Macintoshes being made in the Apple factory on the hill above Cork. |
#38
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New Trek Pricing
On 4/8/2019 9:56 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 08 Apr 2019 19:22:21 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 4/8/2019 6:30 PM, John B. wrote: On Mon, 08 Apr 2019 09:43:36 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 4/8/2019 9:04 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 4/7/2019 11:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Mon, 08 Apr 2019 09:43:57 +0700, wrote: To be honest, in this day and age it makes little sense to manufacture in the U.S. Given the cost of labor and overhead in the U.S. you can make the same product in a foreign country much cheaper and if you are a competent manager of the same quality. True. We have successfully exported most of our industrial capacity to foreign countries. In return we get cheap manufactured products. When we export most of our research and design, the US will cease to be a major manufacturing nation. Trek can then remove the "Designed in Wisconsin" sticker. For example, the U.S. minimum salary is now in the $10/hour range I'm told while in Thailand the minimum salary is 300 baht, about US$9..60... a day. As we slowly blunder towards a world economy, such pay imbalances are unlikely to continue. Initially, as the standard of living increases in former counties with currently low labor rates, they will simply find other 3rd world countries with similarly low labor rates to exploit. Maybe a few small wars might be needed to equalize the pay scale. My crystal ball isn't very clear beyond that point. Our US trade magazine just dropped Italy from the quarterly import report and replaced them with Vietnam (now 10X Italy's volume). Meanwhile these guys are a going concern and just extended their order to ship times by a few weeks: dammit here's the actual link https://waterfordbikes.com/ I notice that site doesn't seem to include prices... is that to prevent heart attacks amongst their potential customers? The accepted wisdom of so-called web experts today is to start with a popular and functional website and then change it frenetically and mercilessly until whatever you seek is hard to find: https://waterfordbikes.com/pricing/ Pretty fair proof that "you can get it over there, cheaper :-) For apples vs. oranges maybe. In our actual world, we export Waterford and Gunnar because they are competitive to similar quality product anywhere on earth. No one chooses a Waterford over a $89 XMart BSO or the other way around. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#39
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New Trek Pricing
AMuzi wrote:
On 4/8/2019 10:38 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 8:19:08 AM UTC-7, Ralph Barone wrote: AMuzi wrote: On 4/8/2019 9:04 AM, AMuzi wrote: Our US trade magazine just dropped Italy from the quarterly import report and replaced them with Vietnam (now 10X Italy's volume). Meanwhile these guys are a going concern and just extended their order to ship times by a few weeks: dammit here's the actual link https://waterfordbikes.com/ The other link you posted was also educational on market realities. It makes you what other links he has open on his browser. I saw that on the radio, found a link and sent it to my ex, who just got a 'promotion' at work but no raise. Yeah, right, but you'll still have to rename your store or at least stop selling yellow jerseys. ;-) Hmmm, wondering who of you has the weirder sense of humor ... and might enjoy "The Scent of Spring," wondering about the business sense of successfully creating a stir vs connecting one's brand to the supposed smell of the main customer group, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3iNXwHBKoI |
#40
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New Trek Pricing
On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 6:19:53 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 1:10:00 AM UTC-5, jOHN b. wrote: When I was first married I used to give my wife 500 baht (about US$ 25.00 at the time) a month to run the house, pay the lights and water, etc. Now... I give her about US$775 for the same purpose. cheers, John B. You still have a wife? I'm guessing your wife is NOT American or western European or from any modern, civilized, democratic, rich type country. I ride with a bunch of dirty old men. All married. I'm guessing their wives would whip the hide off their arse if they tried anything like that. When I first got married I thought that I should just turn my check over to the wife. That was certainly wrong. She spent it all and for the life of me I couldn't tell what on. I wanted to take her to a financial councilor but she refused so I went anyway. He said that in leu of her even trying to gain any control over her spending habits that I should just give her an allowance. She ended up leaving me. Now she's back again with someone that will support her. But she has her own income and spends most of it on herself. I do everything else. But she did by all new kitchen appliances and I have to admit that all except for the stove are a great improvement. The bottom freezer split door Kitchen Aid is perfect and the Kitchen Aid dishwasher is so quiet that you don't even know it's running. The old stove burners didn't get how enough and this Kitchen Aid stove gets too damn hot. Lowest heat is about medium high on the old range. It would probably work well if you used all cast iron pots and pans.. The microwave works well. All in all I only dislike the stove. It is continually needing cleaning because everything boils over if you don't watch it every second. It will boil 8 quarts of water for pasta in less than 5 minutes. Then you have to watch the pasta with the heat turned all the way down to keep it from boiling over. That's no way to cook. |
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