Will e-bikes expand cycling?

On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 01:45:00 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Tuesday, 5 November 2019 04:06:38 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 00:15:43 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Tuesday, 5 November 2019 02:24:05 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 22:51:30 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/4/2019 9:52 PM, news18 wrote:
On Tue, 05 Nov 2019 07:06:34 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:07:23 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 04/11/2019 9:51 a.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:11:46 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:


(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more
efficient at high rpm.)

This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They
were of no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow
would be to burn out the batteries from high discharge rates.

Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the
"transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using
electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of
some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be
utilized by the machinery.

The problem is solvable :-)

Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see
https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...o-go-electric-
bicycle/




The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc.
there as well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making
inroads along w/
the usual 18650 battery format technology.

Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just
moth balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I
priced lithum batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and
$300K for lithium, if i could get them. The usual battery snake
oil seems to have shifted to thier sale now.


A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw
$5/gallon gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an
Australian company called "Elation".
250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of
business.

......
I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on
the flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle
only, hot pedal assist.

Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec
only, but a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is
why eleation might have shut up shop as the various states have
now adopted the same laws across tha nation,

(a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist
only, no throttle. Some have throttles also, I think..

The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that
drove the motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in
reply to someone who posted on a local forum that they had
pushed(walked) a pedelec hire trike for miles whenthe chain broke
.He was told he should have just sat on it and rotated the pedals.

That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on
crank rotation and not some sensor pedalling

Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com".

Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes
will do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a
LOT for E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region
was being used as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle.

Cheers


Yes but we?re we?re talking more about road bikes I think.

https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...electric-road-
bikes/?lang=en

People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to
maintain their levels.

But not trying to maintain the levels of their bank accounts. That
Fantic Passo Giau -- the cheap one of the bunch at $9K -- has assist
up to 16mph and weighs 30 pounds. It is basically a climbing motor.

-- Jay Beattie.


I know, the price is ridiculous. But look at the other two. Both more
expensive and sold out.

Perusing the Trek site it appears that recreational cycling is NOT a
sport for the impoverished :-)

It hasn't been for a while. In the 70's, so long as the wheels went round
and stayed that shape, you could go on a ride and enjoy yourself.

Now it is mostly about buying the latest useless trash to look good and
making sure you stay "connected" to plaster selfies of everything you
do, look at, touch, blah, blah, blah.

_Bicycling_ magazine is the most popular American cycling magazine.
There are good reasons it's mocked as _Buycycling_.

If you look at their web page, way down at the bottom there is a
notice: "Bicycling participates in various affiliate marketing
programs, which means we may get paid commissions on editorially
chosen products purchased through our links to retailer sites."

Which might make one a bit skeptical about the article titled "The
best new whatchamacallit for your bike" :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

Bicycling Magazine went that way in the 1980s. Too bad as they used to have some really great articles in it as well as How to do this repair tips.

I don't remember the name of the magazine but back in maybe sometime
in the '80's I used to buy a bike magazine that had all kind of good
information. How to adjust you seat and handle bars, etc. I even
remember a detailed article on how to patch "sew ups" that recommended
dental floss to sew the casing. I've still got a roll in one of my
tool boxes :-)

Then again, many magazines have gone the same route. I can't remember the last time I bought a paper magazine. Mostly ads and a tiny bit of subject related content is why.

Remember Popular Mechanics. they used to have some super how to make
it articles. I remember one that had, over several issues, detailed
instructions and plans to built a midget race car, I even remember
that it used a Ford 60 engine :-) Another series had an article about
making a knife out of a power hacksaw blade which my father used to
make a hunting knife that he used for probably 30 or 40 years.
--
cheers,

John B.

I didn't read about it in Popular Mechanics but I too made many knife blades from power hacksaw blades. The knives I made had curved blades and were most useful for making things that like bowls or spoons. Things that required a hollowed out area on their surface.

I guess with magazines it's a downward spiral. Ads take the place of content which reduces readership more and to make up the lost readership revenue (as little as it is) the magazine ads even more ad content further reducing space for articles which further reduces readership which leads to yet more advertising space. Sooner or later the magazine becomes an ad magazine with a minuscule amount of actual article space. Before I stopped buying paper magazines I took a few apart and added up the amount of ad space and the amount of actual content. Even then I was quite surprised at how little actual article content there was and so I stopped buying magazines.

I have no idea what modern magazines are like with regards to ad copy versus article content but I don't think it's any better than it was when I stopped buying magazines.

Cheers

I know little about magazines but in the newspaper business, which I
assume is similar, it is income from advertisements that really
counts. Which, of course, translates, to some extent, into circulation
figures.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:41:18 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
snip


You must hate it too when people say SIS indexing system or SIS index cable housing? VBEG LOL

Cheers

Hey! You're right! Now that I think of it.......

I guess I'd best clam down and not worry about common usage....still.....
pH

On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 11:24:39 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 03:34:07 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 11:11:35 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:


(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more efficient at
high rpm.)

This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They were of
no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow would be to burn
out the batteries from high discharge rates.

Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the
"transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using
electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of
some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be
utilized by the machinery.

The problem is solvable :-)

Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see
https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...ctric-bicycle/




The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc. there as
well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making inroads along w/
the usual 18650 battery format technology.

Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just moth
balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I priced lithum
batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and $300K for lithium, if i
could get them. The usual battery snake oil seems to have shifted to
thier sale now.


A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw $5/gallon
gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an Australian
company called "Elation".
250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of business.

......
I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on the
flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle only, hot
pedal assist.

Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec only, but
a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is why eleation
might have shut up shop as the various states have now adopted the same
laws across tha nation,

(a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist only, no
throttle. Some have throttles also, I think..

The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that drove the
motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in reply to someone
who posted on a local forum that they had pushed(walked) a pedelec hire
trike for miles whenthe chain broke .He was told he should have just sat
on it and rotated the pedals.

That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on crank
rotation and not some sensor pedalling

Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com".

Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes will
do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a LOT for
E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region was being used
as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle.

Cheers


Yes but we?re we?re talking more about road bikes I think.

https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...bikes/?lang=en

People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to maintain
their levels.

That goes to show how unrealistic some people are. Put an electric
motor on the bike and gee! I'm just as fast as I was when I was
twenty...

Why not put on a bigger motor and Lo! One would be even faster than
they were at 20 :-) Or maybe an even larger motor and set records :-)
--
cheers,

John B.



Who the **** said anything about being faster than when they were 20?

No one, but someone did say, "People buying these are more likely
sports cyclists trying to maintain their levels. "

And I guessed that the "levels" would be what they were when they were
young and frisky, i.e., 20 years old , not what they were as they
coasted past 70, sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.
--
cheers,

John B.



Their levels, to me meant last year’s levels before that surgery or
whatever.
Having had surgery and am still recovering I would hope my "level"
does get better.

Jeez I know a lot of people around 70 that are in better shape than that.

You know a lot of people around 70...Five? Ten? Assuming that you are
in the U.S. some 80% percent of the population doesn't even get
minimum levels of exercise, to say nothing of developing stamina.

If you work try telling all your co-workers that you "just did a 50
mile bicycle ride on Sunday" and watch their faces. Half of them won't
believe you and the other half will recoil in amazement that anyone
could ride a bicycle such a tendentiously long distance.

Back when I was running I once mentioned, at work, that "I usually run
5 miles before breakfast four mornings a week" and people could hardly
believe it. FIVE MILES! Ohhh, so long!
--
cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 13:08:00 +0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 22:51:30 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/4/2019 9:52 PM, news18 wrote:
On Tue, 05 Nov 2019 07:06:34 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:07:23 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 04/11/2019 9:51 a.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:11:46 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:


(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more
efficient at high rpm.)

This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They
were of no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow
would be to burn out the batteries from high discharge rates.

Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the
"transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using
electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of
some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be
utilized by the machinery.

The problem is solvable :-)

Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see
https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...o-go-electric-
bicycle/




The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc.
there as well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making
inroads along w/
the usual 18650 battery format technology.

Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just
moth balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I
priced lithum batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and
$300K for lithium, if i could get them. The usual battery snake
oil seems to have shifted to thier sale now.


A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw
$5/gallon gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an
Australian company called "Elation".
250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of
business.

......
I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on
the flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle
only, hot pedal assist.

Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec
only, but a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is
why eleation might have shut up shop as the various states have
now adopted the same laws across tha nation,

(a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist
only, no throttle. Some have throttles also, I think..

The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that
drove the motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in
reply to someone who posted on a local forum that they had
pushed(walked) a pedelec hire trike for miles whenthe chain broke
.He was told he should have just sat on it and rotated the pedals.

That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on
crank rotation and not some sensor pedalling

Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com".

Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes
will do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a
LOT for E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region
was being used as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle.

Cheers


Yes but we?re we?re talking more about road bikes I think.

https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...electric-road-
bikes/?lang=en

People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to
maintain their levels.

But not trying to maintain the levels of their bank accounts. That
Fantic Passo Giau -- the cheap one of the bunch at $9K -- has assist
up to 16mph and weighs 30 pounds. It is basically a climbing motor.

-- Jay Beattie.


I know, the price is ridiculous. But look at the other two. Both more
expensive and sold out.

Perusing the Trek site it appears that recreational cycling is NOT a
sport for the impoverished :-)

It hasn't been for a while. In the 70's, so long as the wheels went round
and stayed that shape, you could go on a ride and enjoy yourself.

Now it is mostly about buying the latest useless trash to look good and
making sure you stay "connected" to plaster selfies of everything you
do, look at, touch, blah, blah, blah.

_Bicycling_ magazine is the most popular American cycling magazine.
There are good reasons it's mocked as _Buycycling_.

If you look at their web page, way down at the bottom there is a
notice: "Bicycling participates in various affiliate marketing
programs, which means we may get paid commissions on editorially
chosen products purchased through our links to retailer sites."

Which might make one a bit skeptical about the article titled "The
best new whatchamacallit for your bike" :-)
--
cheers,

John B.


If I saw even one review that ended with “This product is a piece of crap
and we’re not sure why anyone would buy it”, I would feel a lot better
about the rest of the reviews.

If you ever see that you can be assured that company does not
advertise in that magazine :-)

Although there is or was a publication that evaluates different
things and rated them. Consumer Digest? Report? Anyway, they once
tested a bunch of cheap .22 rifles and downgraded them because they
were single shot. Which kind of put me off as at the time all cheap
..22 rifles were single shot :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

snip

Apologies for the delay in replying. I saved the link to look into and got distracted by a discussion of tilting motorcycle (and bicycle) three wheelers on another forum.

The basic principle around which I developed my bike, a Utopia Kranich which was awesome even in the ex-factory trim -- see http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLING.html -- is zero servicing. I've now got it down to five minutes a year to change the gearbox oil and give one shot of grease to its click box. That's it. I don't clean the chain because I run it on the factory lube for its entire life, inside a Hebie Chainglider. A description of how I arrived there is at http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?

That *is* a lovely machine. At first glance I wondered what that black disk was surrounding the chainring, but then got around to reading the text to discover that it's a fully enclosed chaincase. Slick!
Does it make any chain-rubbing noise when pedaling?
The colour and pinstripes (just kidding! Coachlines) are lovely.

I can see that there is a lot to read on your website. Looks fun.

snip


I had not realized that 8Fun/Bafang made a hub motor until I read the first part of your install article. My chainring comment earlier of course makes no sense for a hub motor. (I do recall that there were some hubmotors w/ two-speed planetary gear...I'll have to go back and read more when I have a bit more time.)

Is the front hub, then, 32H to match the Rohloff in the rear? (unless Rohloff has gone beyond 32H, that is)

I'm impressed that you have been carfree since '92.



Andre Jute
Nostalgic for days of power and glory

Your website looks good...must be a lot of work.
pH

On Wed, 06 Nov 2019 09:23:21 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Although there is or was a publication that evaluates different
things and rated them. Consumer Digest? Report? Anyway, they once
tested a bunch of cheap .22 rifles and downgraded them because they
were single shot. Which kind of put me off as at the time all cheap
.22 rifles were single shot :-)

The last article I read in that maganzine was a review of bicycles --
which stated that it would not review bikes that cost more than two
hundred dollars because easy-to-pedal bikes are strictly for people
who like to "torture themselves".

Two hundred dollars was a bit more money back then, but still not
enough to buy a decent bike new.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 4:27:46 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:31:06 -0800 (PST), pH wrote:

snip

I *hate* it when writers use the term "RPMs".
Really? Revolutions per Minutes? How many minutes? What's wrong with one minute?

Well," Look at ME! I'm making some great RPM", just doesn't sound
right :-) While I'm making some rpms or cutting some donuts does :-)

I am similarly annoyed when I see or hear "ATM machine" GAAAHHH!

My grammar-curmudgeonly-ness is showing again.

While I'm at it, I also hate the frequency with which I see people using "advocate for" in letters to the editor and news articles in general. Don't they (or their editors)know that the 'for' is already built into the word advocate!!??

Modern American English like "Oh it is 90 degrees out there!", "Hey
Man, cool."

Ultimately it will regress to "Ugg?", "Ugg!"


pH in Aptos

off-topic rant over
--
cheers,

John B.

I'll calm down now and stick to non-controversial issues like h*lmets.

pH

On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 12:47:58 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/5/2019 2:11 AM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 5 Nov 2019 03:34:13 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 10:07:23 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 04/11/2019 9:51 a.m., jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 3:11:46 AM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, 3 November 2019 21:27:16 UTC-5, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 4 Nov 2019 01:45:33 -0000 (UTC), news18
wrote:

On Sat, 02 Nov 2019 11:37:59 -0700, wb6dwp wrote:


(Apparently electric motors like to spin fast and are more efficient at
high rpm.)

This is why I've only vaguely followed e-bikes for decades. They were of
no use to slow riders. The only result of riding slow would be to burn
out the batteries from high discharge rates.

Internal combustion vehicles suffer from the same malady. Thus the
"transmission" fitted to nearly all of them. Machinery using
electrical motors almost invariably use a speed reduction system of
some sort to reduce the high motor rpm to a lower speed that can be
utilized by the machinery.

The problem is solvable :-)

Or to be more accurate "the problem has been solved" see
https://electrek.co/2019/04/21/elect...ctric-bicycle/




The there are lots of great battery articles and howtos, etc. there as
well. The 21700 Tesla Li-ion cell appears to be making inroads along w/
the usual 18650 battery format technology.

Pricing will be interesting as a new local lithium miner has just moth
balled their mine claiming lack of demand. The last time I priced lithum
batteries for a project, it was $30K for lead and $300K for lithium, if i
could get them. The usual battery snake oil seems to have shifted to
thier sale now.


A few years ago during the latest gas crunch I thought I saw $5/gallon
gas on the horizon, so I bought a mid-drive kit from an Australian
company called "Elation".
250W motor, 10 AH 48V system. They have since gone out of business.

......
I find the 250watt motor will give me a steady 13-14mph or so on the
flat just for how it performs. The elation kit was throttle only, hot
pedal assist.

Over here, the mania, including bicycle bodies, screams pedelec only, but
a reading of the legislation does not say that. which is why eleation
might have shut up shop as the various states have now adopted the same
laws across tha nation,

(a lot of the European offerings also appear to be pedal assist only, no
throttle. Some have throttles also, I think..

The hint on pedelecs was to use a lower gear so the sensor that drove the
motor was fooled by the chain ring rotating. That was in reply to someone
who posted on a local forum that they had pushed(walked) a pedelec hire
trike for miles whenthe chain broke .He was told he should have just sat
on it and rotated the pedals.

That advice/hint would depend on the sensor still being based on crank
rotation and not some sensor pedalling

Anyway, lots of fun reading at "electricbike DOT com".

Sounds like a very useful site from your comments. Thanks.
--
cheers,

John B.

In keeping with the title of this thread. I don't think that E-bikes will
do much for bicycling per se. I DO think that E-bikes will do a LOT for
E-motor-biking though. Every E-bike Ive seen in my region was being used
as an Electric Motorbike NOT a bicycle.

Cheers


Yes but we’re we’re talking more about road bikes I think.

https://e2-sport.ca/product-category...bikes/?lang=en

People buying these are more likely sports cyclists trying to maintain
their levels.

But not trying to maintain the levels of their bank accounts. That
Fantic Passo Giau -- the cheap one of the bunch at $9K -- has assist up
to 16mph and weighs 30 pounds. It is basically a climbing motor.

-- Jay Beattie.


I know, the price is ridiculous. But look at the other two. Both more
expensive and sold out.

Perusing the Trek site it appears that recreational cycling is NOT a
sport for the impoverished :-)
--
cheers,

John B.



I think you confuse recreation and sport.

I don't think so. After all a sport can be a recreation. Think all the
millions that play golf, the majority of whom can't break 100.

I'm not convinced that golf ever qualified as a "sport." Even bowling is
more strenuous.

I put golf in the same category as billiards. Neither one is a "sport."

"sport /spôrt/ noun: sport; plural noun: sports
1. an activity involving physical exertion and skill..."

I should have used a different example :-) In fact, for whatever
reason, there is considerable controversy over the question of whether
or not golf is a sport.

You do walk between 5 and 7 miles on most golf courses. And walking
can be considered a sport, the race walkers think that it is. It takes
tremendous skill to hit a golf ball and have it go just where you want
it to.

But then (to use a" Tom" and change the subject) is bicycling a sport?
It can be but it is hardly sporting to ride down to the corner store
to get a loaf of bread.

The Wiki, by the way, describes a "sport" as "Sport includes all forms
of competitive physical activity or games which, through casual or
organized participation, aim to use, maintain or improve physical
ability and skills while providing enjoyment to participants, and in
some cases, entertainment for spectators." In which case golf does
qualify :-)

But then, of course, we also have, to use the vernacular, sporting
houses and sporting ladies :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, November 5, 2019 at 1:18:25 PM UTC-8, duane wrote:

snip


I used to carry spare rotor, points and condenser in my glove
compartment and was able to get things going when they broke. The bad
part was that I had to do that occasionally. I haven't had a problem
like that with an electronic ignition in - well I don't remember the
last time.

snip
I have points, condenser and even a few spark plugs rolling around in the trunk (boot) of my Morris Minor right now.
I started carrying them on purpose after having to change the failed condenser one dark, cold night and I just happened to have an old one for no particular reason. What fun.
Also learned to always have a spare bypass hose (head to block), too.

pH

On Tue, 05 Nov 2019 12:24:53 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 11/5/2019 12:14 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/5/2019 9:00 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 11/4/2019 9:17 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 11/4/2019 1:44 PM, pH wrote:
Stop me before I post again.....

Okay, last time, then I'm going outside.

Here are *26* kits that were around in 2014.
There was a TdF rider who was accused of using a motor
assist some years back, wasn't there? Kit Number 10 in
this list could have been the culprit if true.

pH in Aptos

https://www.electricbike.com/mid-drive-kits/

I'm curious about how the Yellow Jersey bike shop is
responding to this ebike trend.

Andy?



We walked away a few years ago when we were unable to
provide any service beyond "replace entire system" to
customers with products we sold. There's a current front
page article in our industry news on that very subject:

https://read.dmtmag.com/i/1179600-no...ew s+Audience


Lower right, "E-bike Service Can Mean Saying 'No' "

This situation may well change, and our opinion will
change, but despite the hype the product is generally not
ready for average consumers IMHO.

We're very good with mechanical, machining,
welding/brazing processes and electromechanical systems
such as classic autos and motorcycles. E-bike troubles are
often not in those realms, rather software, sensors,
semiconductor circuits, motor controller systems,
batteries and connectors/fixtures of the lowest orders.

It's one thing for the importer to reply in text that you
have to replace the entire system. It's quite another to
look a man in the eye and say that.

In my experience, some dealers have that skill. :-/

In the early 1970s, I bought a 350cc Kawasaki A7, a rotary
valve twin with one of the first motorcycle electronic
ignitions - capacitive discharge, surface gap plugs,
triggered by a magnet and sensor instead of points.

It was wonderful, much better starting and running than my
previous 2-stroke bikes. Until one day on a camping trip up
in the mountains, a massive thunderstorm hit. My friend and
I pulled under shelter to wait it out. When I tried to
re-start, one of the electronic boxes emitted sizzles,
sparks and smoke.

The dealer in my small town claimed that the entire ignition
system had to be replaced, and at about half the cost of the
bike. According to him, that included the permanent magnet.
How does water damage a permanent magnet??

I retrofitted a classic points-and-coil system instead.



I have to explain to Engine Guru twice a year that, no, I'm
not interested in electronic ignition and yes I'm happy to
clean and gap mechanical points. I was once up on US 666
between Payson and Snowflake 3am in a snowstorm [1]. Rental
truck was missing and popping. I pulled a matchbook across
the points, gapped them by ear and drove on.

Mr Engine Guru says modern are much simpler, you just drop
in a new electronic module. This is not communication, as we
see the problem from different universes.

[1]45 years ago that highway was not as nice as now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-1wTo5oVUI

Buy a diesel and eliminate all that electronic folderol :-)
--
cheers,

John B.