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#71
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Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution
On 08/05/2018 3:49 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 10:32:47 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-05-08 10:09, Duane wrote: On 08/05/2018 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-05-08 08:49, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 7:18:39 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: snip That tire belongs on the trash heep and that's where mine went. I didn't see the first one, but I'm still not concerned. It's not bulging, and if I were worried and didn't want to trash the tire (they're not cheap), I'd put a patch behind the scuff and throw some Shoe Goo on it. I know people who even think about their car tires that way. Some threads showing? Aw, heck! Quit crab-walking. We're not talking about cars. We're not talking about MTBs. We're not talking about a fox in a box. We're talking about a scuff on a Gatorskin -- a road tire on a rear wheel. It's not a runaway truck filled with nitroglycerin. It's similar. Also, a road bike has two wheels, not just a rear wheel. [...] Once again, we're talking about a scuffed road tire and not some epic smashing of a MTB tire on rocks. You're talking about riding a scuffed tire as terribly dangerous, yet every story is about exploding tires on gnarly trails and physical conditions that tax ordinary bicycles. For you, maybe a scuff is fatal. On a normal road bike not so much. Yeah, right. As a kid I had a front blow-out in a tunnel on the way back home from school. Just a normal paved road. Narrow one-lane tunnel and I wanted to beat the traffic light that guided direction. The long descent before the tunnel helped me get to speed. I must have hit some sort of pothole in the fairly dark tunnel ... *KAPOW* ... I did come out of that tunnel but separated from my road bike and the school pack came rolling out last according to the first driver waiting at the light on the other side. The front tire had popped. For a few days I had to sleep on one side because the other hurt a lot. So what? You blew a tire in a pot hole. I'm not getting how this illustrates anything except how lucky you were that you didn't go OTB -- the usual consequence of hitting a pot hole at high speed. What are you suggesting here -- solid tires? Tires with proper side walls. That's what blew out in the tunnel. Again, I don't care whether you, Doug or others use Gatorskins with compromised side walls. It's your lives. Here at our house they are banned and will no longer be purchased. Yeah but your evidence seems flawed. You're saying that you careem downhill at speed on a road bike into a dark tunnel, hit a pothole blowing a tire and crash and it's the tire's fault? It wasn't a major pothole and I expect from any road vehicle that it is able to handle ... roads. You know the manufacturers are so stupid. That fat Michelin man. I call him sad Michelin man -- a failing tire company. If they did like I suggested in 1982 and made solid tires, they would be great again. Losers. BTW, I've never crashed because of an equipment failure. I've broken three pedals, snapped six or more cranks (at least three while out of the saddle sprinting), broken handle bars, seat posts. No fork failures or wheel collapses, which I would expect to cause a crash. Never crashed because of a blown tire. Oh, I take it back, I picked up a thorn riding over to the Alpenrose velodrome and ultimately flatted in a bank and slid down -- but that's only because I stopped pedaling. http://hubalabike.com/wp-content/upl...me_43_bank.jpg That's the same kind of "logic" as saying that grandpa tooled around in the old Studebaker which didn't have seat belts and he lived to ripe old age, so seat belts are "not needed". No, I think what he means is **** happens more to you than to most people. But you seem to blame the equipment. I use my equipment for what it was intended to be used. Pffffff (spitting out coffee). You have a Euro sport bike with Mod E-ish rims and 600EX museum piece equipment, 23mm tires (?) and you've saddle it with all sorts of racks and then ride it on super-gnarly death-trails. You are taking a mid-fi club racing bike and using it as an adventure bike. Can you even get a 28mm Gatorskin under the fork crown or brake bridge? My commuter has 28mm Gatorskins. They're not the best rolling tires in the world, but they last O.K. No sidewall problems. I had sidewall problems with UltraSports and Panasonic Paselas. The Vittoria Zaffiros were flat-magnets, and wet traction was just O.K. Getting dizzy yet? |
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#72
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Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution
On 2018-05-08 12:49, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 10:32:47 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-05-08 10:09, Duane wrote: On 08/05/2018 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-05-08 08:49, jbeattie wrote: [...] You know the manufacturers are so stupid. That fat Michelin man. I call him sad Michelin man -- a failing tire company. If they did like I suggested in 1982 and made solid tires, they would be great again. Losers. BTW, I've never crashed because of an equipment failure. I've broken three pedals, snapped six or more cranks (at least three while out of the saddle sprinting), broken handle bars, seat posts. No fork failures or wheel collapses, which I would expect to cause a crash. Never crashed because of a blown tire. Oh, I take it back, I picked up a thorn riding over to the Alpenrose velodrome and ultimately flatted in a bank and slid down -- but that's only because I stopped pedaling. http://hubalabike.com/wp-content/upl...me_43_bank.jpg That's the same kind of "logic" as saying that grandpa tooled around in the old Studebaker which didn't have seat belts and he lived to ripe old age, so seat belts are "not needed". No, I think what he means is **** happens more to you than to most people. But you seem to blame the equipment. I use my equipment for what it was intended to be used. Pffffff (spitting out coffee). I had half a glass of homemade Pale Ale during lunch. Much better than coffee :-) ... You have a Euro sport bike with Mod E-ish rims and 600EX museum piece equipment, 23mm tires (?) and you've saddle it with all sorts of racks and then ride it on super-gnarly death-trails. Huh? I use a Fuji Outland full suspension MTB on gnarly trails. Not the road bike. Nice shocks, can be turned on and off and even adjusted in their response while riding. I posted a photo numerous times. As for "museum pieces" I have ridden modern bikes and found no difference to write home about in brake performance. Brifters are nice, I have to reach down to shift gears but OTOH I can over-shift gears a lot faster than with brifters or the handlebar clickies on my MTB. I did have younger riders ask me what I am doing down there all the time without grabbing my bottle. "I was shifting" ... looks down ... "Oh!" .. ... You are taking a mid-fi club racing bike and using it as an adventure bike. Can you even get a 28mm Gatorskin under the fork crown or brake bridge? I had 25mm Gatorskins. 28mm would be possible but barely. The slightest out of trueness in the rim and it'll chafe. In this region that happens quickly because not all roads are paved and occasionally I break a rear spoke. My commuter has 28mm Gatorskins. They're not the best rolling tires in the world, but they last O.K. No sidewall problems. I had sidewall problems with UltraSports and Panasonic Paselas. The Vittoria Zaffiros were flat-magnets, and wet traction was just O.K. No problems with Zaffiros, knocking on wood. However, I have thorn-resistant tubes in there plus Mr.Tuffy tire liners. In goat's head country anything less would make for annoying ride experiences, missed appointments and all. I can't stand flats and now I never get any. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#73
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Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution
On 2018-05-08 13:03, Duane wrote:
On 08/05/2018 3:34 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-05-08 11:13, Duane wrote: On 08/05/2018 1:32 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-05-08 10:09, Duane wrote: On 08/05/2018 12:43 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-05-08 08:49, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 7:18:39 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: snip [...] Once again, we're talking about a scuffed road tire and not some epic smashing of a MTB tire on rocks. You're talking about riding a scuffed tire as terribly dangerous, yet every story is about exploding tires on gnarly trails and physical conditions that tax ordinary bicycles. For you, maybe a scuff is fatal. On a normal road bike not so much. Yeah, right. As a kid I had a front blow-out in a tunnel on the way back home from school. Just a normal paved road. Narrow one-lane tunnel and I wanted to beat the traffic light that guided direction. The long descent before the tunnel helped me get to speed. I must have hit some sort of pothole in the fairly dark tunnel ... *KAPOW* ... I did come out of that tunnel but separated from my road bike and the school pack came rolling out last according to the first driver waiting at the light on the other side. The front tire had popped. For a few days I had to sleep on one side because the other hurt a lot. So what? You blew a tire in a pot hole. I'm not getting how this illustrates anything except how lucky you were that you didn't go OTB -- the usual consequence of hitting a pot hole at high speed. What are you suggesting here -- solid tires? Tires with proper side walls. That's what blew out in the tunnel. Again, I don't care whether you, Doug or others use Gatorskins with compromised side walls. It's your lives. Here at our house they are banned and will no longer be purchased. Yeah but your evidence seems flawed. You're saying that you careem downhill at speed on a road bike into a dark tunnel, hit a pothole blowing a tire and crash and it's the tire's fault? It wasn't a major pothole and I expect from any road vehicle that it is able to handle ... roads. Don't try driving on Quebec roads then. Hitting a pothole around here can bust a tie rod. Been there, done that. There's even a law that excludes the municipality from liability in that case. What world do you live in where equipment can take any abuse you throw at it? I didn't say "any", I said "road". It was in Germany where municipalities were responsible to a non-fixed major hole if negligence could be proven. At least back then. Well they are responsible here if you can prove that they knew about it and failed to repair it. Good luck with that. So you are saying you think a car should not be damaged by hitting potholes on a road? Not by that shallow one. I went in there and looked, mainly to see if other stuff had flown off that I'd want to collect. The tunnel had a small sidewalk. It still seems to be there, middle of the picture, under the rail lines, I came in from the west when it happened: https://goo.gl/maps/EUhHSoUqo2t Anyway, what you described is reckless behavior, even if you now say that it wasn't a big pothole. Going through a tunnel on a road bike is not reckless, it is called riding. The road isn't very steep but enough to get to a good speed. You said you were going through a dark tunnel at speed and hit a pothole you didn't see: direction. The long descent before the tunnel helped me get to speed. I must have hit some sort of pothole in the fairly dark tunnel ... *KAPOW* ... I did come out of that tunnel but Is speed prohibited on a road bike? Is using it in the dark prohibited? ... Maybe the hill wasn't that steep and the tunnel not that dark. Stick with your Chinese import tires if you like but quick complaining about it. Not Chinese, I tried CST and it's thumbs down. Thailand makes better tires IMO. On the MTB they have proven themselves very well. Got one on the road bike now and a few more are coming. So far I am impressed. Despite some gravel road exposure no side wall damage at all. So if you're happy about your tires why do you keep complaining? What complaining? All I said is that I find Gatorskin tires to be of inferior quality in their side walls and I stand by that opinion. Others are better, way better. Heck, even the cheap CST Conquistares were. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#74
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Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution
On 5/8/2018 8:49 AM, jbeattie wrote:
So what? You blew a tire in a pot hole. I'm not getting how this illustrates anything except how lucky you were that you didn't go OTB -- the usual consequence of hitting a pot hole at high speed. What are you suggesting here -- solid tires? You know the manufacturers are so stupid. That fat Michelin man. I call him sad Michelin man -- a failing tire company. If they did like I suggested in 1982 and made solid tires, they would be great again. Losers. BTW, I've never crashed because of an equipment failure. I've broken three pedals, snapped six or more cranks (at least three while out of the saddle sprinting), broken handle bars, seat posts. Impressive technique. When I snapped a crank out of the saddle (starting from a red light), down I went. Years later, I think I kept it up when I snapped a chain. Way back in the day, I kept the tandem up when we popped the small cog off a Regina Corsa cluster (held on only by two threads, it turned out), but that was a close-run thing. Just can't figure how to do it with a crank snap, though. How _does_ one stay up upon snapping a crank? Was the failure not sudden? Your prospective bike-handling disciple (mostly serious) Mark J. |
#75
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Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution
On Tue, 08 May 2018 07:40:35 -0700, Joerg
wrote: On 2018-05-07 17:35, John B. wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:00:56 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-05-07 06:43, sms wrote: On 5/4/2018 4:51 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-05-04 15:07, sms wrote: On 5/4/2018 10:52 AM, Doug Landau wrote: With a $45 tire I do not expect to have to rant snipped I spent another few minutes and $1 of gorilla snot on this tire : https://www.dropbox.com/s/rdsokmbfixi7jf2/tire.jpg?dl=0 I'll get my 3K miles out of this gatorskin, no problem OMG, what a terribly ridiculous thing to do to save a few bucks. It reminds me of the guys who used some sort of glorified soldering iron to cut "new tread" into their car tires when they were bald. To save the expense of having to buy new ones. https://www.hardlineproducts.com/product/tread-doctor-knobby-cutting-tool-for-usa/ Yup. Another accident waiting to happen. The ones I saw in Europe had sort of a heated "cutting box" at the tip to "dregde" the tread valley. It's really sick, just like glueing tire side walls is. Really sick? Just as a fingernail file and a bent nail are when used as a chain tool? That works. File usually not even needed, just a hardened nail (the kind to drive into concrete, pointy tip ground down) and a steel nut on the other side. The first five decades of my life I did not have a chain tool yet managed to change dozens of chains. The ones I used rarely had a missing link. I had to make sure that I did that job when the folks in the apartment below weren't home because the process is loud. However, I just splurged and in a few days this will arrive: https://www.crankbrothers.com/produc...nt=53958754055 One can only speculate about your tails of woe. Firstly you describe riding in really gnarly terrain, then you describe a remote and uninhabited area where one can't even stop for a beer. Then in this remote and uninhabited country you can, apparently, have no problems finding (1) Concrete nails, (2) Nuts of an appropriate size to use as a backstop.(3)hammer stones. And, apparently these areas are common in your selected riding areas. One can only wonder why anyone would carry concrete nails into the "outback" given that they are more expensive then common nails and there is no concrete way out there in the bush. I feel that you are rapidly becoming what a Saigon bar girl once refereed to as a "Bull**** Boy". -- Cheers, John B. |
#76
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Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution
On Wed, 09 May 2018 07:59:48 +0700, John B.
wrote: On Tue, 08 May 2018 07:40:35 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-05-07 17:35, John B. wrote: On Mon, 07 May 2018 08:00:56 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2018-05-07 06:43, sms wrote: On 5/4/2018 4:51 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2018-05-04 15:07, sms wrote: On 5/4/2018 10:52 AM, Doug Landau wrote: With a $45 tire I do not expect to have to rant snipped I spent another few minutes and $1 of gorilla snot on this tire : https://www.dropbox.com/s/rdsokmbfixi7jf2/tire.jpg?dl=0 I'll get my 3K miles out of this gatorskin, no problem OMG, what a terribly ridiculous thing to do to save a few bucks. It reminds me of the guys who used some sort of glorified soldering iron to cut "new tread" into their car tires when they were bald. To save the expense of having to buy new ones. https://www.hardlineproducts.com/product/tread-doctor-knobby-cutting-tool-for-usa/ Yup. Another accident waiting to happen. The ones I saw in Europe had sort of a heated "cutting box" at the tip to "dregde" the tread valley. It's really sick, just like glueing tire side walls is. Really sick? Just as a fingernail file and a bent nail are when used as a chain tool? That works. File usually not even needed, just a hardened nail (the kind to drive into concrete, pointy tip ground down) and a steel nut on the other side. The first five decades of my life I did not have a chain tool yet managed to change dozens of chains. The ones I used rarely had a missing link. I had to make sure that I did that job when the folks in the apartment below weren't home because the process is loud. However, I just splurged and in a few days this will arrive: https://www.crankbrothers.com/produc...nt=53958754055 One can only speculate about your tails of woe. Firstly you describe riding in really gnarly terrain, then you describe a remote and uninhabited area where one can't even stop for a beer. Then in this remote and uninhabited country you can, apparently, have no problems finding (1) Concrete nails, (2) Nuts of an appropriate size to use as a backstop.(3)hammer stones. And, apparently these areas are common in your selected riding areas. One can only wonder why anyone would carry concrete nails into the "outback" given that they are more expensive then common nails and there is no concrete way out there in the bush. I feel that you are rapidly becoming what a Saigon bar girl once refereed to as a "Bull**** Boy". Referred to ... -- Cheers, John B. |
#77
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Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution
On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 4:55:10 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
On 5/8/2018 8:49 AM, jbeattie wrote: So what? You blew a tire in a pot hole. I'm not getting how this illustrates anything except how lucky you were that you didn't go OTB -- the usual consequence of hitting a pot hole at high speed. What are you suggesting here -- solid tires? You know the manufacturers are so stupid. That fat Michelin man. I call him sad Michelin man -- a failing tire company. If they did like I suggested in 1982 and made solid tires, they would be great again. Losers. BTW, I've never crashed because of an equipment failure. I've broken three pedals, snapped six or more cranks (at least three while out of the saddle sprinting), broken handle bars, seat posts. Impressive technique. When I snapped a crank out of the saddle (starting from a red light), down I went. Years later, I think I kept it up when I snapped a chain. Way back in the day, I kept the tandem up when we popped the small cog off a Regina Corsa cluster (held on only by two threads, it turned out), but that was a close-run thing. Just can't figure how to do it with a crank snap, though. How _does_ one stay up upon snapping a crank? Was the failure not sudden? Your prospective bike-handling disciple (mostly serious) Mostly good luck, because I've done plenty of things that have landed me in the hospital, usually related to traction loss. Anyway, with one of the cranks, I was sprinting that little approach hill to Sauvie Island, and the crank broke (Campy NR). The front end wobbled hard, and I put my foot/pedal on the pavement and threw-up some sparks (maybe, it could have happened). The rough part was riding home 15 miles on one leg. I broke two Shimanos near my current home, going over short hills out of the saddle. The last time, I had really hard wobble and again put my foot on the ground, but the SPD pedal came off. I had to hunt around the next morning to find my pedal in a leaf pile on Terwiliger. It still had part of the crank on it. I don't remember the details of the ones back in the 70-90s. I'm not saying its safe to break equipment, but Joerg's world is so bleak, I though a counter-anecdote was in order. I don't want everyone running for the Xanax and hiding inside, worried about killer cars and exploding tires.. -- Jay Beattie. |
#78
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Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution
On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 5:47:48 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 7:02:00 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 5/7/2018 9:28 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 4:39:31 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: And what do you do for the front? Bikes have two wheels. Call your wife from the hospital that dinner is off tonight, and the next 10-20 days? Wow, you're a nervous nelly. And what about the front? We're talking about a rear wheel and a casing scuff. If it were on the front tire, I'd keep an eye on it. I've ridden front tires booted with a $1 bill for many, many miles. On our coast-to-coast tour, my daughter got a gash over 1/2" in the front tire of her Terry bike. That bike has an odd size front wheel. Late Saturday in South Dakota, there was absolutely no way to get a replacement tire. Ditto Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday... The best we could do was to call Terry Inc. on Monday and get it quick-shipped to the next bike shop on our route, which was well over a hundred miles away. On the road, I triple-booted the tire and we ran low pressure the rest of that day. In the motel, I stitched the gash back together as well as I could, re-did the internal boots, and rode the tire all those miles to that bike shop. I guess Joerg would have taken a taxi? No, Joerg's tire would have exploded violently, blowing his body parts all over the road. He would have been mailed home in a giant Ziplock bag. Mundane mechanical failures are catastrophic, life endangering events for Joerg. I don't know, met or talked to anyone that: - break so many parts on a regular base, - met so many people who do so also, - is so scared of events that could happen. It is so remarkable that I tend to not believing him or doubting his riding skills. Hitting a pothole in a tunnel at high speed? WTF? What was he thinking? When I enter a dark tunnel I reduce my speed... Lou |
#79
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Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution
wrote:
On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 5:47:48 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 7:02:00 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 5/7/2018 9:28 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, May 7, 2018 at 4:39:31 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: And what do you do for the front? Bikes have two wheels. Call your wife from the hospital that dinner is off tonight, and the next 10-20 days? Wow, you're a nervous nelly. And what about the front? We're talking about a rear wheel and a casing scuff. If it were on the front tire, I'd keep an eye on it. I've ridden front tires booted with a $1 bill for many, many miles. On our coast-to-coast tour, my daughter got a gash over 1/2" in the front tire of her Terry bike. That bike has an odd size front wheel. Late Saturday in South Dakota, there was absolutely no way to get a replacement tire. Ditto Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday... The best we could do was to call Terry Inc. on Monday and get it quick-shipped to the next bike shop on our route, which was well over a hundred miles away. On the road, I triple-booted the tire and we ran low pressure the rest of that day. In the motel, I stitched the gash back together as well as I could, re-did the internal boots, and rode the tire all those miles to that bike shop. I guess Joerg would have taken a taxi? No, Joerg's tire would have exploded violently, blowing his body parts all over the road. He would have been mailed home in a giant Ziplock bag. Mundane mechanical failures are catastrophic, life endangering events for Joerg. I don't know, met or talked to anyone that: - break so many parts on a regular base, - met so many people who do so also, - is so scared of events that could happen. It is so remarkable that I tend to not believing him or doubting his riding skills. Hitting a pothole in a tunnel at high speed? WTF? What was he thinking? When I enter a dark tunnel I reduce my speed... Lou Apparently after further questioning the hill wasn’t very steep, the pothole wasn’t very deep and the tunnel wasn’t very dark. It was the fault of the tire. -- duane |
#80
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Desperate needs = desperate but workable solution
On 5/8/2018 10:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 8, 2018 at 4:55:10 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote: On 5/8/2018 8:49 AM, jbeattie wrote: So what? You blew a tire in a pot hole. I'm not getting how this illustrates anything except how lucky you were that you didn't go OTB -- the usual consequence of hitting a pot hole at high speed. What are you suggesting here -- solid tires? You know the manufacturers are so stupid. That fat Michelin man. I call him sad Michelin man -- a failing tire company. If they did like I suggested in 1982 and made solid tires, they would be great again. Losers. BTW, I've never crashed because of an equipment failure. I've broken three pedals, snapped six or more cranks (at least three while out of the saddle sprinting), broken handle bars, seat posts. Impressive technique. When I snapped a crank out of the saddle (starting from a red light), down I went. Years later, I think I kept it up when I snapped a chain. Way back in the day, I kept the tandem up when we popped the small cog off a Regina Corsa cluster (held on only by two threads, it turned out), but that was a close-run thing. Just can't figure how to do it with a crank snap, though. How _does_ one stay up upon snapping a crank? Was the failure not sudden? Your prospective bike-handling disciple (mostly serious) Mostly good luck, because I've done plenty of things that have landed me in the hospital, usually related to traction loss. Anyway, with one of the cranks, I was sprinting that little approach hill to Sauvie Island, and the crank broke (Campy NR). The front end wobbled hard, and I put my foot/pedal on the pavement and threw-up some sparks (maybe, it could have happened). The rough part was riding home 15 miles on one leg. I broke two Shimanos near my current home, going over short hills out of the saddle. The last time, I had really hard wobble and again put my foot on the ground, but the SPD pedal came off. I had to hunt around the next morning to find my pedal in a leaf pile on Terwiliger. It still had part of the crank on it. I don't remember the details of the ones back in the 70-90s. I'm not saying its safe to break equipment, but Joerg's world is so bleak, I though a counter-anecdote was in order. I don't want everyone running for the Xanax and hiding inside, worried about killer cars and exploding tires. -- Jay Beattie. lurid graphics here http://www.yellowjersey.org/jayscranks.html -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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