Before We See a Bike Friendly World

George Conklin schrieb:
"ComandanteBanana" wrote in message
...
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.


Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

Where else do WE Europeans live? Come on tell it to me over the big pond!

Tadej
--
"Frauen sind als Gesprächspartner nun einmal interessanter,
weil das Gespräch nicht beendet ist, wenn nichts sinnvolles mehr zu
sagen ist."
David Kastrup in d.t.r

George Conklin schrieb:
"Tim McNamara" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George Conklin" wrote:

"ComandanteBanana" wrote in message

...
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.
What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs." Still are, for
that matter.

The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city. The summer I
lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
city. The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.

It is true that the one family house is common and popular, especially
in Germany, or in some regions of my native Austria (uppe raustria being
very strongly, rurally sprawled. But how much does the example of
continental Europe's biggest city of Paris cater for the whole system?

True, Europe isn't perfect either.

Tadej
--
"Frauen sind als Gesprächspartner nun einmal interessanter,
weil das Gespräch nicht beendet ist, wenn nichts sinnvolles mehr zu
sagen ist."
David Kastrup in d.t.r

CJ schrieb:
On 9 Jun, 21:16, "George Conklin" wrote:
"ComandanteBanana" wrote in message

...

We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.
Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

It's true, there are also rather a lot of sprawling "American style"
developments in Europe, but the kind of urban environment he's talking
about is sufficiently common in most European countries for that to be
a useful label.

The interesting question is how will one transform into the other.

Easy, although not easy to practically realise due to people's
addictions: erase the car as basis of all design elements, rules and
regulations and put the pedestrian, bike and LRT in.

For all the narrowed vision readers her: i didn't write erase the car
from the cities, but erase it as the dominator all rules are revolving
around.

Tadej
--
"Frauen sind als Gesprächspartner nun einmal interessanter,
weil das Gespräch nicht beendet ist, wenn nichts sinnvolles mehr zu
sagen ist."
David Kastrup in d.t.r

George Conklin schrieb:
"Tim McNamara" wrote in message
...
In article
,
ComandanteBanana wrote:

We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.
You do know that utopianism doesn't work, right?

Even in Europe when people get the chance to decompress they do so.

bileveled bogus:
1. People do not decompress, but it is the geographically inherent
property of cities all over the world to almost all times (except for
eg. walled cities) that they, when there's no explicit physical
boundary, lose density from city level to rural level at its fringes.
3. Density is to be looked upon dually: high in neighbourhoods of the
economically weaker groups, but also high in central neighbourhoods of
wealthier groups.
Of course there are also peripheral settlements of poorer and rich elements.

Tadej
--
"Frauen sind als Gesprächspartner nun einmal interessanter,
weil das Gespräch nicht beendet ist, wenn nichts sinnvolles mehr zu
sagen ist."
David Kastrup in d.t.r

"Tadej Brezina" wrote in message
...
George Conklin schrieb:
"Tim McNamara" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"George Conklin" wrote:

"ComandanteBanana" wrote in message

...
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.
What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs." Still are, for
that matter.

The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most
residents
of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he
shows
pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city. The summer
I
lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but
in
fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
city. The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.

It is true that the one family house is common and popular, especially in
Germany, or in some regions of my native Austria (uppe raustria being very
strongly, rurally sprawled. But how much does the example of continental
Europe's biggest city of Paris cater for the whole system?

I lived in a single family house (on a large lot, no less) in Germany. I
could still walk or bike to any place in town. And if you were willing to
spend some time at it, it was possible to walk to the next town as well,
though it was quicker to bike.

On Jun 10, 8:49*am, Tadej Brezina wrote:
George Conklin schrieb:

"ComandanteBanana" wrote in message
...
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

* *Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

Where else do WE Europeans live? Come on tell it to me over the big pond!

I think he means there are lot of foreigners there.

On Jun 10, 8:52*am, Tadej Brezina wrote:
George Conklin schrieb:





"Tim McNamara" wrote in message
...
In article ,
*"George Conklin" wrote:

"ComandanteBanana" wrote in message

...
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

*Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.
What he's talking about used to be called "suburbs." *Still are, for
that matter.

* *The book "Sprawl: A Compact History" makes the point that most residents
of Paris actually live in houses which we would call suburban (and he shows
pictures), but tourists only see the older parts of the city. *The summer I
lived with a family near Paris showed that the houses had small lots, but in
fact were not what is usually called the "typical" old-fashioned European
city. *The traffic jams in Paris attest to that too.

It is true that the one family house is common and popular, especially
in Germany, or in some regions of my native Austria (uppe raustria being
very strongly, rurally sprawled. But how much does the example of
continental Europe's biggest city of Paris cater for the whole system?

True, Europe isn't perfect either.

One reason may be that you watch too much American TV. European elites
must get hints from the "happy life" in the American suburb along with
the SUV to impress the neighbors...

How prevalent are the SUVs there nowadays? I saw a few in Oslo --and
still too many.

On Jun 10, 12:48*am, Tim McNamara wrote:
In article
,

*ComandanteBanana wrote:
We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

You do know that utopianism doesn't work, right?

Urban sprawl IS American utopianism.

Maybe you are right.

On Jun 10, 6:30 am, CJ wrote:
On 9 Jun, 21:16, "George Conklin" wrote:

"ComandanteBanana" wrote in message

...

We need to be aware of things that must happen in the psychological
and physical world, namely "small is better" and traditional
neighborhoods, aka "New Urbanism" or European style cities.

Only a small percentage of Europeans live in what you like to call
"European style" cities.

It's true, there are also rather a lot of sprawling "American style"
developments in Europe, but the kind of urban environment he's talking
about is sufficiently common in most European countries for that to be
a useful label.

The interesting question is how will one transform into the other.

Some kind of major change must occur for it to happen. McCain is
business as usual, and Obama more of the same. Still, the former is a
"liberal" and the latter a "socialist" to the American Christian
voter ... So any European leader would be a "communist"...

'HOLD MY NOSE'

Dan Yoder, the pastor of a small country church in Springfield,
Tennessee, said, "I'm going to have to hold my nose while I vote for
McCain ... but Obama's a die-hard socialist."

Obama, a senator from Illinois who would be America's first black
president, is right off the scale for many conservative evangelicals
because of his liberal voting record, his opposition to the Iraq war
and his support for abortion rights.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080610/...ists_mccain_dc

See, I didn't want to open this Pandora's Box because MANY things must
happen before we a Bike Friendly World...

To begin with, gas in Europe costs twice as much as in America, so the
sprawl is kept in check NATURALLY, and they get some money for public
transportation as well.

This article argues that the true cost of gas is $10, and that's
excluding the war in Iraq...

"One thing has become clear. If Americans had to pay the true cost of
fuel at the pump, we would all ride bicycles and drive electric cars."

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbc...NEWS/806080327