Need advice on bottom bracket repair

On Mon, 9 Jan 2017, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/9/2017 4:26 PM, wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 2:15:41 PM UTC-8, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 10:43:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 10:01:31 AM UTC-8, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom
bracket in serious need of overhaul [both cups stuck]

Delco 10.4020 penetrant is the best, PC Blaster is good.
Warming with a heat gun can help.

If no other path, flats can be cut on the cup with a disc
grinder to allow a wrench instead of those brittle
expensive pins.

p.s. Try the right side cup too. If that moves, you can
easily deal with the left one after disasssembly.

Thanks for the added tips. Off to get penetrating oil and new
pins now. Grinding on it is beyond my abilities, so if I'm not
able to get things off with the addition of penetrating oil and
time, I'll be hauling it off to my LBS.

As a last resort, once I simply pulled out the bottom bracket
via the fixed side and then spend half a day cutting the
adjustable cup with a hacksaw blade up to but not touching the
threads. This allowed the cup to collapse partially when the pin
spanner was applied and come loose.

By the way - you ARE turning the adjustable cup off clockwise
aren't you?

No, counterclockwise--same direction the lockring came off, and
the direction that every website I looked at called for. As I
understand it, the fixed cup may be threaded the other direction.

Just to clarify (I have spent a lot of time with Angel Rodriguez and
in his shop; your BB is BSC threaded) the chain side (right side
when riding) cup is reverse thread. The non-drive side (clean side,
adjustable side, left side) unscrews like a jar lid.

Okay, after nearly a week of daily Blaster drips, I got replacement
pins last night. Today I was able to get the adjustable cup out, a
bit of back and forth helped.

Now I'm tackling the fixed cup, using the large bolts and wrenches as
described by Sheldon. So far I haven't been able to get it to budge,
and before I spend too much time moosing on it I want to double
confirm it is reverse threaded. In other words, I should be turning
from the outside of the shell and not from the inside.

Thanks again to all for the great tips!

--
Ted Heise Bloomington, IN, USA

On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 08:58:29 -0800 (PST),
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 9:33:31 PM UTC-5, Theodore Heise wrote:

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom
bracket in serious need of overhaul. The cranks flop
severely.

I've pulled the cranks and the lock ring on the left side, but
the adjustable cup won't come out. It turns about a quarter
turn, but then gets too stiff to turn further. It has no
flats for a wrench instead having holes for turning with a pin
spanner--so I'm unable to put a lot of force on it.

I've soaked it with WD40, but still no joy. Any advice for
me?

Have you had any luck getting that cup off or looser?

Yep, I got the adjustable cup out just now, and am working on the
fixed. I posted a few more details elsethread.

--
Ted Heise Bloomington, IN, USA

On 1/14/2017 3:46 PM, Ted Heise wrote:


On Mon, 9 Jan 2017, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/9/2017 4:26 PM, wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 2:15:41 PM UTC-8, Theodore
Heise wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 10:43:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 10:01:31 AM UTC-8,
Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear
bottom bracket in serious need of overhaul [both
cups stuck]

Delco 10.4020 penetrant is the best, PC Blaster is
good.
Warming with a heat gun can help.

If no other path, flats can be cut on the cup with
a disc
grinder to allow a wrench instead of those brittle
expensive pins.

p.s. Try the right side cup too. If that moves, you
can
easily deal with the left one after disasssembly.

Thanks for the added tips. Off to get penetrating oil
and new pins now. Grinding on it is beyond my
abilities, so if I'm not able to get things off with
the addition of penetrating oil and time, I'll be
hauling it off to my LBS.

As a last resort, once I simply pulled out the bottom
bracket via the fixed side and then spend half a day
cutting the adjustable cup with a hacksaw blade up to
but not touching the threads. This allowed the cup to
collapse partially when the pin spanner was applied and
come loose.

By the way - you ARE turning the adjustable cup off
clockwise
aren't you?

No, counterclockwise--same direction the lockring came
off, and the direction that every website I looked at
called for. As I understand it, the fixed cup may be
threaded the other direction.

Just to clarify (I have spent a lot of time with Angel
Rodriguez and in his shop; your BB is BSC threaded) the
chain side (right side when riding) cup is reverse thread.
The non-drive side (clean side, adjustable side, left
side) unscrews like a jar lid.

Okay, after nearly a week of daily Blaster drips, I got
replacement pins last night. Today I was able to get the
adjustable cup out, a bit of back and forth helped.

Now I'm tackling the fixed cup, using the large bolts and
wrenches as described by Sheldon. So far I haven't been
able to get it to budge, and before I spend too much time
moosing on it I want to double confirm it is reverse
threaded. In other words, I should be turning from the
outside of the shell and not from the inside.

Thanks again to all for the great tips!


Yes but don't suffer for it. R&E (or any competent shop
which commonly services bicycles) will have a right cup tool
(Campagnolo or other) which makes that job very quick.

Your cup has 36mm flats, yes? Much better purchase on those
than simple friction against the face. Secure your tool so
it doesn't slip and damage the cup, the finish or your fingers.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 10:17:20 +1100, James
wrote:

I wonder whether a couple of hours soaking in a solution of CLR (Calcium
Lime Rust household cleaner) would help?

CLR and such will attack the aluminum frame. It works for cleaning
aluminum, but must be substantially diluted.

http://www.thecarycompany.com/facility-supplies/cleaners/clr/faq
What will CLR do to copper or aluminum?
CLR will take the finish off of aluminum and copper.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"AMuzi" wrote in message
news
On 1/14/2017 3:46 PM, Ted Heise wrote:


On Mon, 9 Jan 2017, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/9/2017 4:26 PM, wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 2:15:41 PM UTC-8, Theodore
Heise wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 10:43:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 10:01:31 AM UTC-8,
Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear
bottom bracket in serious need of overhaul [both
cups stuck]

Delco 10.4020 penetrant is the best, PC Blaster is
good.
Warming with a heat gun can help.

If no other path, flats can be cut on the cup with
a disc
grinder to allow a wrench instead of those brittle
expensive pins.

p.s. Try the right side cup too. If that moves, you
can
easily deal with the left one after disasssembly.

Thanks for the added tips. Off to get penetrating oil
and new pins now. Grinding on it is beyond my
abilities, so if I'm not able to get things off with
the addition of penetrating oil and time, I'll be
hauling it off to my LBS.

As a last resort, once I simply pulled out the bottom
bracket via the fixed side and then spend half a day
cutting the adjustable cup with a hacksaw blade up to
but not touching the threads. This allowed the cup to
collapse partially when the pin spanner was applied and
come loose.

By the way - you ARE turning the adjustable cup off
clockwise
aren't you?

No, counterclockwise--same direction the lockring came
off, and the direction that every website I looked at
called for. As I understand it, the fixed cup may be
threaded the other direction.

Just to clarify (I have spent a lot of time with Angel
Rodriguez and in his shop; your BB is BSC threaded) the
chain side (right side when riding) cup is reverse thread.
The non-drive side (clean side, adjustable side, left
side) unscrews like a jar lid.

Okay, after nearly a week of daily Blaster drips, I got
replacement pins last night. Today I was able to get the
adjustable cup out, a bit of back and forth helped.

Now I'm tackling the fixed cup, using the large bolts and
wrenches as described by Sheldon. So far I haven't been
able to get it to budge, and before I spend too much time
moosing on it I want to double confirm it is reverse
threaded. In other words, I should be turning from the
outside of the shell and not from the inside.

Thanks again to all for the great tips!


Yes but don't suffer for it. R&E (or any competent shop which commonly
services bicycles) will have a right cup tool (Campagnolo or other) which
makes that job very quick.

Your cup has 36mm flats, yes? Much better purchase on those than simple
friction against the face. Secure your tool so it doesn't slip and damage
the cup, the finish or your fingers.

The cup might even be tool steel - it would take some effort to damage it.

An aluminium frame I was cleaning to weigh in for scrap - I had to hacksaw
the BB housing and split it with a chisel to get the cup out, the hacksaw
caught the flange on the cup - the hacksaw blade was completely dulled, the
flange on the cup was barely marked.

On Saturday, January 14, 2017 at 5:13:14 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/14/2017 3:46 PM, Ted Heise wrote:


On Mon, 9 Jan 2017, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/9/2017 4:26 PM, wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 2:15:41 PM UTC-8, Theodore
Heise wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 10:43:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 10:01:31 AM UTC-8,
Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear
bottom bracket in serious need of overhaul [both
cups stuck]

Delco 10.4020 penetrant is the best, PC Blaster is
good.
Warming with a heat gun can help.

If no other path, flats can be cut on the cup with
a disc
grinder to allow a wrench instead of those brittle
expensive pins.

p.s. Try the right side cup too. If that moves, you
can
easily deal with the left one after disasssembly.

Thanks for the added tips. Off to get penetrating oil
and new pins now. Grinding on it is beyond my
abilities, so if I'm not able to get things off with
the addition of penetrating oil and time, I'll be
hauling it off to my LBS.

As a last resort, once I simply pulled out the bottom
bracket via the fixed side and then spend half a day
cutting the adjustable cup with a hacksaw blade up to
but not touching the threads. This allowed the cup to
collapse partially when the pin spanner was applied and
come loose.

By the way - you ARE turning the adjustable cup off
clockwise
aren't you?

No, counterclockwise--same direction the lockring came
off, and the direction that every website I looked at
called for. As I understand it, the fixed cup may be
threaded the other direction.

Just to clarify (I have spent a lot of time with Angel
Rodriguez and in his shop; your BB is BSC threaded) the
chain side (right side when riding) cup is reverse thread.
The non-drive side (clean side, adjustable side, left
side) unscrews like a jar lid.

Okay, after nearly a week of daily Blaster drips, I got
replacement pins last night. Today I was able to get the
adjustable cup out, a bit of back and forth helped.

Now I'm tackling the fixed cup, using the large bolts and
wrenches as described by Sheldon. So far I haven't been
able to get it to budge, and before I spend too much time
moosing on it I want to double confirm it is reverse
threaded. In other words, I should be turning from the
outside of the shell and not from the inside.

Thanks again to all for the great tips!


Yes but don't suffer for it. R&E (or any competent shop
which commonly services bicycles) will have a right cup tool
(Campagnolo or other) which makes that job very quick.

Your cup has 36mm flats, yes? Much better purchase on those
than simple friction against the face. Secure your tool so
it doesn't slip and damage the cup, the finish or your fingers.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

PcB, heat and vise grips

On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 16:46:53 -0500, Ted Heise
wrote:



On Mon, 9 Jan 2017, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/9/2017 4:26 PM, wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 2:15:41 PM UTC-8, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 10:43:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 10:01:31 AM UTC-8, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:
Hi all,

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom
bracket in serious need of overhaul [both cups stuck]

Delco 10.4020 penetrant is the best, PC Blaster is good.
Warming with a heat gun can help.

If no other path, flats can be cut on the cup with a disc
grinder to allow a wrench instead of those brittle
expensive pins.

p.s. Try the right side cup too. If that moves, you can
easily deal with the left one after disasssembly.

Thanks for the added tips. Off to get penetrating oil and new
pins now. Grinding on it is beyond my abilities, so if I'm not
able to get things off with the addition of penetrating oil and
time, I'll be hauling it off to my LBS.

As a last resort, once I simply pulled out the bottom bracket
via the fixed side and then spend half a day cutting the
adjustable cup with a hacksaw blade up to but not touching the
threads. This allowed the cup to collapse partially when the pin
spanner was applied and come loose.

By the way - you ARE turning the adjustable cup off clockwise
aren't you?

No, counterclockwise--same direction the lockring came off, and
the direction that every website I looked at called for. As I
understand it, the fixed cup may be threaded the other direction.

Just to clarify (I have spent a lot of time with Angel Rodriguez and
in his shop; your BB is BSC threaded) the chain side (right side
when riding) cup is reverse thread. The non-drive side (clean side,
adjustable side, left side) unscrews like a jar lid.

Okay, after nearly a week of daily Blaster drips, I got replacement
pins last night. Today I was able to get the adjustable cup out, a
bit of back and forth helped.

Now I'm tackling the fixed cup, using the large bolts and wrenches as
described by Sheldon. So far I haven't been able to get it to budge,
and before I spend too much time moosing on it I want to double
confirm it is reverse threaded. In other words, I should be turning
from the outside of the shell and not from the inside.

Thanks again to all for the great tips!

I've never been able to make Sheldon's scheme of a bolt, nut and
washers work as he described it. What I have had success with was
using a nut, bolt and washers to clamp the correct size wrench in
place so it didn't slip when loosening the fixed cup. I've no idea of
costs in the U.S. but here a cheap Chinese wrench costs, maybe, a
dollar, or even three :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Saturday, January 14, 2017 at 4:49:30 PM UTC-5, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2017 08:58:29 -0800 (PST),
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, January 7, 2017 at 9:33:31 PM UTC-5, Theodore Heise wrote:

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear bottom
bracket in serious need of overhaul. The cranks flop
severely.

I've pulled the cranks and the lock ring on the left side, but
the adjustable cup won't come out. It turns about a quarter
turn, but then gets too stiff to turn further. It has no
flats for a wrench instead having holes for turning with a pin
spanner--so I'm unable to put a lot of force on it.

I've soaked it with WD40, but still no joy. Any advice for
me?

Have you had any luck getting that cup off or looser?

Yep, I got the adjustable cup out just now, and am working on the
fixed. I posted a few more details elsethread.

--
Ted Heise Bloomington, IN, USA

Check Sheldon's Tool Tips again because he tells you whether to tighten the inside or the outside of the bolt-nut tool.For what it's worth I found that it took a lot of presure to tighten the nut/bolt to the point where it'd unscrew the cup and when it did it was a very sudden movement of the cup.

Good luck and cheers

AE6KS 831-336-2558


https://www.google.com/search?q=ph+s...JrUxbibX4OM%3A

lactic acid , of all !...wiki's at 3.6 saturated.

https://www.google.com/#q=lactic-acid.com is wiki's reference to industrial use age ! needs review.

the cleaner reviewed would be higher....near 5 ?

Lieb...what is the old book of home brew chemicals ? is this tome on your shelf ? I searched for it several years ago too some time....not or then currently popular in searching numbers. there may be a strong HB anti ionic solid solution ...

On Sat, 14 Jan 2017 16:13:13 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/14/2017 3:46 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Mon, 9 Jan 2017, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/9/2017 4:26 PM, wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 2:15:41 PM UTC-8, Theodore
Heise wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 10:43:33 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
On Sunday, January 8, 2017 at 10:01:31 AM UTC-8,
Theodore Heise wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 11:08:20 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/7/2017 8:33 PM, Theodore Heise wrote:

I have an early 1990s Rodriguez tandem with a rear
bottom bracket in serious need of overhaul [both cups
stuck]

Just to clarify (I have spent a lot of time with Angel
Rodriguez and in his shop; your BB is BSC threaded) the chain
side (right side when riding) cup is reverse thread. The
non-drive side (clean side, adjustable side, left side)
unscrews like a jar lid.

Okay, after nearly a week of daily Blaster drips, I got
replacement pins last night. Today I was able to get the
adjustable cup out, a bit of back and forth helped.

Now I'm tackling the fixed cup, using the large bolts and
wrenches as described by Sheldon. So far I haven't been able
to get it to budge, and before I spend too much time moosing
on it I want to double confirm it is reverse threaded. In
other words, I should be turning from the outside of the shell
and not from the inside.

Yes but don't suffer for it. R&E (or any competent shop which
commonly services bicycles) will have a right cup tool
(Campagnolo or other) which makes that job very quick.

Your cup has 36mm flats, yes? Much better purchase on those
than simple friction against the face. Secure your tool so it
doesn't slip and damage the cup, the finish or your fingers.

Yes, my Park tool (HCW4) with fixed pins at one end is labeled 36
mm--I believe for the end with flats for the fixed cup end. It
fits the fixed cup.

I will stop by the hardware store later this morning (when it
opens) to get a larger washer so I can use the 5/8" bolt and nut
to keep the cup tool in place when wrenching with it.

If that doesn't work (which I expect), I will be taking the frame
in to my LBS (taking to heart your "don't suffer for it" advice).

--
Ted Heise Bloomington, IN, USA