Rules of Thumb

On Fri, 20 May 2016 11:15:59 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/19/2016 11:34 PM, John B. wrote:

Whatever became of all the "rules of thumb" that I used to read about
in the bike magazines.

I remember strict instructions that the front of the knee must be
directly over the center line of the pedal when the crank was
horizontal, and that the end of road bike handle bars should point at
the rear wheel axle. And when one is in the drops the handle bars
should "cover" the front wheel axle.

I remember those instructions. Personally, I never believed the
handlebar ones anyway. Seems to me handlebar pitch or tilt should be
whatever feels good to the rider.

And the "cover the axle" thing probably arose after an "expert" bike
tester for _Bicycling_ rode three road frames in a row and noticed that
similarity between them. It may have worked for that style frame, with
that rider's upper body, arm and neck length, but I can't imagine it
makes sense for every rider on every bike.

I read Dave Moulton's blog from time to time and recently read a
couple of his posts about bicycle fit. He recommends a seat adjustment
using the distance from the elbow to the tips of the finger between
the nose of the saddle and the handle bars. I tried it on my bikes and
Goodness! That's just how my bikes are set up. (which of course proves
he is right :-)

He also wrote about "women's bikes" and he argues that the real
difference between men and women (regarding bicycling) is that the
women are smaller and require a smaller bicycle, and, he recommends
slightly different angles due to the height difference.

I don't necessarily agree with everything that he writes but he did
build a lot of bikes and, as far as I can tell, was well respected in
the trade and I would guess that the majority of his customers were
satisfied with how his bikes fit.


I even remember articles about how to tape the handle bars - this was
in the days of thin bar wrapping - and some folks even recommended a
layer of "air conditioning pipe insulation" applied to the bars before
wrapping with the tape.

I think what's happened there is that people have spotted all those tips
as being economic opportunities. "Heck, if people are using pipe
insulation for that, we can buy it in bulk, cut it to size, package it
and sell it. We'll get rich!"

Nope, they just incorporated foam in the bar tape and all the old thin
stuff disappeared.

And, I might note, I was browsing through the tape offerings at one
shop the other day and came across some tape priced at 1,500 baht a
set. About US$42.... I didn't buy it :-)

Now all I read is "Ohhhh, that bike is Soooo stiff", and I even saw
one entitled "Ride without looking like a Rookie" and another "How to
enjoy a solo ride".

Not to mention "Get great looking legs!" and articles on just the right
outfit to wear when you ride to the coffee shop. $150 bicycle blue jeans!

Yup. I've read a couple of articles about how much better shaved legs
are. Nobody can quantify exactly why they are better but regardless,
they ARE.



BTW, a variation on the theme: My wife gets the Terry Bicycles catalog.
Georgena Terry was one of the earliest proponents of bikes designed to
better fit women riders. (Our daughter rides a Terry bike.) But the
catalog has devolved into a clothing store. There's no evidence that
they still bother selling bikes.

One of the basic facts of life is "chase the almighty dollar" :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 20 May 2016 15:58:32 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 8:16:03 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/19/2016 11:34 PM, John B. wrote:

Whatever became of all the "rules of thumb" that I used to read about
in the bike magazines.

I remember strict instructions that the front of the knee must be
directly over the center line of the pedal when the crank was
horizontal, and that the end of road bike handle bars should point at
the rear wheel axle. And when one is in the drops the handle bars
should "cover" the front wheel axle.

I remember those instructions. Personally, I never believed the
handlebar ones anyway. Seems to me handlebar pitch or tilt should be
whatever feels good to the rider.

And the "cover the axle" thing probably arose after an "expert" bike
tester for _Bicycling_ rode three road frames in a row and noticed that
similarity between them. It may have worked for that style frame, with
that rider's upper body, arm and neck length, but I can't imagine it
makes sense for every rider on every bike.

I even remember articles about how to tape the handle bars - this was
in the days of thin bar wrapping - and some folks even recommended a
layer of "air conditioning pipe insulation" applied to the bars before
wrapping with the tape.

I think what's happened there is that people have spotted all those tips
as being economic opportunities. "Heck, if people are using pipe
insulation for that, we can buy it in bulk, cut it to size, package it
and sell it. We'll get rich!"

Now all I read is "Ohhhh, that bike is Soooo stiff", and I even saw
one entitled "Ride without looking like a Rookie" and another "How to
enjoy a solo ride".

Not to mention "Get great looking legs!" and articles on just the right
outfit to wear when you ride to the coffee shop. $150 bicycle blue jeans!

BTW, a variation on the theme: My wife gets the Terry Bicycles catalog.
Georgena Terry was one of the earliest proponents of bikes designed to
better fit women riders. (Our daughter rides a Terry bike.) But the
catalog has devolved into a clothing store. There's no evidence that
they still bother selling bikes.

Note:

From http://www.womenscycling.ca/bl... "Cervélo believes that women-specific bikes aren’t necessary because, contrary to what consumers are told, men and women’s leg and torso proportions aren’t different—the only difference is between short and tall people. Heather Henderson, women–specific product manager for Trek Bicycles, confirms that. 'The idea that women’s leg and torso length is different than men’s is not based on fact, but neither is it being spread by the manufactures of WSD (women-specific-design) bikes. It’s an urban legend. Misinformed staff in bicycle stores help propagate the legend.'” It is a serious issue as clearly the geometry of the bike is being affected.

There does seem to be some justification for women's track bikes to
have a bit slacker seat tube angle which seems to make the bike "fit"
a little better. But that is for a bike that is essentially ridden in
the drops, not a normal road bike.

http://cyclingtips.com/2015/05/women...et-part-three/

Nonetheless, there are a lot of women-specific-designs out there, and women have become the new bicycle marketing frontier. Terry has been eclipsed and pushed more towards saddles and clothes.

Some people still preach the old KOPS position, but the insidious modern trend is turning bike fitting over to supposed experts who charge $250 a pop. My son got a super-discounted fitting from a shop he rides for. I jumped on his fitted bike and immediately noticed the saddle was tilted up and probably rocking his hips. We went out with four old-guy racer friends of mine who, like me, all thought his stem was too short. I'm not sure about the super-scientific fit thing.

-- Jay Beattie.

You are trying to destroy the American Dream. A fitter that was fast
on his feet might be able to work in two "fittings" in the morning and
two in the afternoon. A Grand a day. Shoot, only have to work one day
a week :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 20 May 2016 15:35:55 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-19 20:34, John B. wrote:

Whatever became of all the "rules of thumb" that I used to read about
in the bike magazines.

I remember strict instructions that the front of the knee must be
directly over the center line of the pedal when the crank was
horizontal, and that the end of road bike handle bars should point at
the rear wheel axle. And when one is in the drops the handle bars
should "cover" the front wheel axle.

I even remember articles about how to tape the handle bars - this was
in the days of thin bar wrapping - and some folks even recommended a
layer of "air conditioning pipe insulation" applied to the bars before
wrapping with the tape.

Now all I read is "Ohhhh, that bike is Soooo stiff", and I even saw
one entitled "Ride without looking like a Rookie" and another "How to
enjoy a solo ride".


Yeah, or stories about the latest and greatest gizmos that cost a
fortune. I quit reading bike magazines a long time ago.

What I am much more interested in is endurance testing of tires and
other stuff like they regularly present in car magazines. But it doesn't
happen, so why buy those magazines?


Are bicycles now so standardized that we now don't have to be told how
to adjust handle bars?


We still have to adjust. Serious riders make sure they get the correct
frame size. When I bought my new MTB I rode it for a while after the LBS
had adjusted things upon delivery. I read up on best positioning for the
various riding styles, there's plenty of information. Just not in
magazines anymore because it's all online now.

Per these instructions I shortened my handlebar in 10mm increments
because I was brushing stuff too often on trails. Until it felt just
right. Then I tried stem lengths and found that 80mm suited me much
better than the stock 120mm. Slightly steeper angle as well. Now the
"cockpit" fits like a glove.

The usual "rule of thumb" for road bikes is the handle bars are the
width of your shoulders, which means that your arms stick straight out
in front. I've always assumed that this was a good until I bought a
new(old) bike and riding it felt fine. Eventually I measured the
handle bars, Goodness! They were 3 cm wider than "normal" and I had
never noticed it :-)



... Or does the LBS now do it for us?


A good one will. But just like with the adjustment of a partial at the
dentist there is a finite amount of time the LBS will be willing to
invest on the courtesy side (as in free). If you offer to pay he'll
surely adjust your bike as often as you want to.


I even came across an article "Race Back in Time at L'Eroica" a story
about riding a steel frame bicycle that had toe clips and down tube
shifters while wearing a wool jersey.

(I think that old age has crept up behind me when I wasn't looking :-)


If it's any comfort I ride a circa 1982 steel frame road bike, down tube
shifters, changed from 2*6 to 2*7 after I crunched the freehub. I also
gave it a 11-32T cassette which is the maximum the old Shimano 600
derailer was willing to stomach. 52/42 up front. Still not so ideal for
some of the hills here but suits me well.

I find that the terrain seems to be the deciding factor. In Bangkok,
essentially flat, I find down tube shifters to be just the thing and
make maybe two or three gear changes a ride. In Phuket, which is
essentially a mountain sticking out of the water I use a 3 x 10 setup
and on most days will use nearly all the gears.

The bike was custom made for me so back then was expensive. Immediately
after delivery I added lighting and a sturdy luggage rack. Meantime I
removed the toe clip pedals and replaced them with ... gasp ... MTB
pedals. Last year I added small panniers (Nashbar Daytrekker). Those
kinds of changes and my unorthodox clothing causes some in the
Lycra-crowd to look down on me but I don't care.

Do I feel old now? Nah!
--
cheers,

John B.

Per John B.:
I read Dave Moulton's blog from time to time and recently read a
couple of his posts about bicycle fit. He recommends a seat adjustment
using the distance from the elbow to the tips of the finger between
the nose of the saddle and the handle bars.

So far, I have not heard an argument against my own seat-distance
setting:

- Riding on the saddle, upshift until you are pedaling with your butt
floating an inch or so above the saddle.

- Peddle like that for a minute or so.

- Downshift until your butt settles back on the saddle.
If your sit bones are not centered in the usable portion
of the saddle, move it fore or aft and repeat until they are.


I have found that handlebar extension does not affect where my sit bones
rest on the saddle. My bars allow me to shift my grip 7+ inches fore
and aft - and the outcome of the floating-butt test above seems to
remain the same with my grip all the way forward or all the way aft.

And if there *is* a diff, it is no more than a quarter of an inch -
arrived at by setting the saddle so my sit bones are on the rear edge
rivets of the saddle so that I can feel any diff.


I think there is a psychological/marketing factor in at least some of
the recommended settings/sizes: people have a built-in desire for
hard-and-fast rules and making some up helps sell bikes.

I remember surfing in the early sixties: the board makers felt
constrained to issue precise recommendations on board length vs the
surfer's height..... and then mini-boards came along....
--
Pete Cresswell

On 5/21/2016 12:18 AM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 15:58:32 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 8:16:03 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/19/2016 11:34 PM, John B. wrote:

Whatever became of all the "rules of thumb" that I used to read about
in the bike magazines.

I remember strict instructions that the front of the knee must be
directly over the center line of the pedal when the crank was
horizontal, and that the end of road bike handle bars should point at
the rear wheel axle. And when one is in the drops the handle bars
should "cover" the front wheel axle.

I remember those instructions. Personally, I never believed the
handlebar ones anyway. Seems to me handlebar pitch or tilt should be
whatever feels good to the rider.

And the "cover the axle" thing probably arose after an "expert" bike
tester for _Bicycling_ rode three road frames in a row and noticed that
similarity between them. It may have worked for that style frame, with
that rider's upper body, arm and neck length, but I can't imagine it
makes sense for every rider on every bike.

I even remember articles about how to tape the handle bars - this was
in the days of thin bar wrapping - and some folks even recommended a
layer of "air conditioning pipe insulation" applied to the bars before
wrapping with the tape.

I think what's happened there is that people have spotted all those tips
as being economic opportunities. "Heck, if people are using pipe
insulation for that, we can buy it in bulk, cut it to size, package it
and sell it. We'll get rich!"

Now all I read is "Ohhhh, that bike is Soooo stiff", and I even saw
one entitled "Ride without looking like a Rookie" and another "How to
enjoy a solo ride".

Not to mention "Get great looking legs!" and articles on just the right
outfit to wear when you ride to the coffee shop. $150 bicycle blue jeans!

BTW, a variation on the theme: My wife gets the Terry Bicycles catalog.
Georgena Terry was one of the earliest proponents of bikes designed to
better fit women riders. (Our daughter rides a Terry bike.) But the
catalog has devolved into a clothing store. There's no evidence that
they still bother selling bikes.

Note:

From http://www.womenscycling.ca/bl... "Cervélo believes that women-specific bikes aren’t necessary because, contrary to what consumers are told, men and women’s leg and torso proportions aren’t different—the only difference is between short and tall people. Heather Henderson, women–specific product manager for Trek Bicycles, confirms that. 'The idea that women’s leg and torso length is different than men’s is not based on fact, but neither is it being spread by the manufactures of WSD (women-specific-design) bikes. It’s an urban legend. Misinformed staff in bicycle stores help propagate the legend.'” It is a serious issue as clearly the geometry of the bike is being affected.

There does seem to be some justification for women's track bikes to
have a bit slacker seat tube angle which seems to make the bike "fit"
a little better. But that is for a bike that is essentially ridden in
the drops, not a normal road bike.

http://cyclingtips.com/2015/05/women...et-part-three/

Nonetheless, there are a lot of women-specific-designs out there, and women have become the new bicycle marketing frontier. Terry has been eclipsed and pushed more towards saddles and clothes.

Some people still preach the old KOPS position, but the insidious modern trend is turning bike fitting over to supposed experts who charge $250 a pop. My son got a super-discounted fitting from a shop he rides for. I jumped on his fitted bike and immediately noticed the saddle was tilted up and probably rocking his hips. We went out with four old-guy racer friends of mine who, like me, all thought his stem was too short. I'm not sure about the super-scientific fit thing.

-- Jay Beattie.

You are trying to destroy the American Dream. A fitter that was fast
on his feet might be able to work in two "fittings" in the morning and
two in the afternoon. A Grand a day. Shoot, only have to work one day
a week :-)

On a ride this week, a friend described the results of a professional
bike fit session, albeit a much less expensive one. As I understood it,
the changes were a centimeter here, a centimeter there, and a tremendous
increase in comfort.

Personally, I doubt that I can feel those centimeters of difference.
For me, the only one that's really important is the height of the seat,
but even that one is effectively changed when I ride using a different
pair of shoes; and for rides under (say) 30 miles, I don't bother to
re-adjust it. And regarding the forward reach, I just measured it on
the four bikes I ride most. They vary by a full inch.

Admittedly, I'm not much of a connoisseur. And I don't doubt the value
of a proper fit when getting a brand new bike.

But I wonder if the value of expensive fine-tuning fit sessions might be
matched by some ceremony involving feathers, bones and rattles.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2016-05-20 21:32, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 15:35:55 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-19 20:34, John B. wrote:

[...]


Are bicycles now so standardized that we now don't have to be told how
to adjust handle bars?


We still have to adjust. Serious riders make sure they get the correct
frame size. When I bought my new MTB I rode it for a while after the LBS
had adjusted things upon delivery. I read up on best positioning for the
various riding styles, there's plenty of information. Just not in
magazines anymore because it's all online now.

Per these instructions I shortened my handlebar in 10mm increments
because I was brushing stuff too often on trails. Until it felt just
right. Then I tried stem lengths and found that 80mm suited me much
better than the stock 120mm. Slightly steeper angle as well. Now the
"cockpit" fits like a glove.

The usual "rule of thumb" for road bikes is the handle bars are the
width of your shoulders, which means that your arms stick straight out
in front. I've always assumed that this was a good until I bought a
new(old) bike and riding it felt fine. Eventually I measured the
handle bars, Goodness! They were 3 cm wider than "normal" and I had
never noticed it :-)


On my road bike the handle bar is much shorter than shoulder width which
was quite normal in Europe in the early 80's. It is a custom-fitted bike
and the LBS owner asked me a lot of questions about my riding style and
most of all the routes.



... Or does the LBS now do it for us?


A good one will. But just like with the adjustment of a partial at the
dentist there is a finite amount of time the LBS will be willing to
invest on the courtesy side (as in free). If you offer to pay he'll
surely adjust your bike as often as you want to.


I even came across an article "Race Back in Time at L'Eroica" a story
about riding a steel frame bicycle that had toe clips and down tube
shifters while wearing a wool jersey.

(I think that old age has crept up behind me when I wasn't looking :-)


If it's any comfort I ride a circa 1982 steel frame road bike, down tube
shifters, changed from 2*6 to 2*7 after I crunched the freehub. I also
gave it a 11-32T cassette which is the maximum the old Shimano 600
derailer was willing to stomach. 52/42 up front. Still not so ideal for
some of the hills here but suits me well.

I find that the terrain seems to be the deciding factor. In Bangkok,
essentially flat, I find down tube shifters to be just the thing and
make maybe two or three gear changes a ride. In Phuket, which is
essentially a mountain sticking out of the water I use a 3 x 10 setup
and on most days will use nearly all the gears.


That would be my dream set-up but one can't have everything. By the time
I'd have changed all that plus brifters and stuff I might as well buy a
whole new bike. And then my wife would want me to get rid of this one
which I can't do (yet).

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 11:34:19 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-05-20 21:32, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 15:35:55 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-19 20:34, John B. wrote:

[...]


Are bicycles now so standardized that we now don't have to be told how
to adjust handle bars?


We still have to adjust. Serious riders make sure they get the correct
frame size. When I bought my new MTB I rode it for a while after the LBS
had adjusted things upon delivery. I read up on best positioning for the
various riding styles, there's plenty of information. Just not in
magazines anymore because it's all online now.

Per these instructions I shortened my handlebar in 10mm increments
because I was brushing stuff too often on trails. Until it felt just
right. Then I tried stem lengths and found that 80mm suited me much
better than the stock 120mm. Slightly steeper angle as well. Now the
"cockpit" fits like a glove.

The usual "rule of thumb" for road bikes is the handle bars are the
width of your shoulders, which means that your arms stick straight out
in front. I've always assumed that this was a good until I bought a
new(old) bike and riding it felt fine. Eventually I measured the
handle bars, Goodness! They were 3 cm wider than "normal" and I had
never noticed it :-)


On my road bike the handle bar is much shorter than shoulder width which
was quite normal in Europe in the early 80's. It is a custom-fitted bike
and the LBS owner asked me a lot of questions about my riding style and
most of all the routes.



... Or does the LBS now do it for us?


A good one will. But just like with the adjustment of a partial at the
dentist there is a finite amount of time the LBS will be willing to
invest on the courtesy side (as in free). If you offer to pay he'll
surely adjust your bike as often as you want to.


I even came across an article "Race Back in Time at L'Eroica" a story
about riding a steel frame bicycle that had toe clips and down tube
shifters while wearing a wool jersey.

(I think that old age has crept up behind me when I wasn't looking :-)


If it's any comfort I ride a circa 1982 steel frame road bike, down tube
shifters, changed from 2*6 to 2*7 after I crunched the freehub. I also
gave it a 11-32T cassette which is the maximum the old Shimano 600
derailer was willing to stomach. 52/42 up front. Still not so ideal for
some of the hills here but suits me well.

I find that the terrain seems to be the deciding factor. In Bangkok,
essentially flat, I find down tube shifters to be just the thing and
make maybe two or three gear changes a ride. In Phuket, which is
essentially a mountain sticking out of the water I use a 3 x 10 setup
and on most days will use nearly all the gears.


That would be my dream set-up but one can't have everything. By the time
I'd have changed all that plus brifters and stuff I might as well buy a
whole new bike. And then my wife would want me to get rid of this one
which I can't do (yet).

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Shoulder width or a bit wider was needed when bicyclists were riding bicycles with short cockpits and their knees came up between their elbows when the bicyclist was riding in the drops.

Cheers

On 2016-05-21 12:28, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 11:34:19 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-05-20 21:32, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 15:35:55 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-19 20:34, John B. wrote:


[...]


I even came across an article "Race Back in Time at L'Eroica"
a story about riding a steel frame bicycle that had toe clips
and down tube shifters while wearing a wool jersey.

(I think that old age has crept up behind me when I wasn't
looking :-)


If it's any comfort I ride a circa 1982 steel frame road bike,
down tube shifters, changed from 2*6 to 2*7 after I crunched
the freehub. I also gave it a 11-32T cassette which is the
maximum the old Shimano 600 derailer was willing to stomach.
52/42 up front. Still not so ideal for some of the hills here
but suits me well.

I find that the terrain seems to be the deciding factor. In
Bangkok, essentially flat, I find down tube shifters to be just
the thing and make maybe two or three gear changes a ride. In
Phuket, which is essentially a mountain sticking out of the water
I use a 3 x 10 setup and on most days will use nearly all the
gears.


That would be my dream set-up but one can't have everything. By the
time I'd have changed all that plus brifters and stuff I might as
well buy a whole new bike. And then my wife would want me to get
rid of this one which I can't do (yet).

[...]

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Shoulder width or a bit wider was needed when bicyclists were riding
bicycles with short cockpits and their knees came up between their
elbows when the bicyclist was riding in the drops.


I guess my frame is long enough because I am over 6' tall and ride in
the drops occasionally. Max 5% of the time though, getting too old in my
back for more. There is never interference.

However, the narrow handle bar has another drawback I just found out. I
can't mount the new MP3 player (with speaker) on there or I'd take away
too much grip area up top. So unless I switch to a wider bar I'll have
to build some sort of steerer tube mount for that. Bicycles have
surprisingly little options when it comes to mounting additional gizmos.
On long boring uphill slogs that little MP3 player is nice.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 3:39:46 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-05-21 12:28, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 11:34:19 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-05-20 21:32, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 15:35:55 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-19 20:34, John B. wrote:


[...]


I even came across an article "Race Back in Time at L'Eroica"
a story about riding a steel frame bicycle that had toe clips
and down tube shifters while wearing a wool jersey.

(I think that old age has crept up behind me when I wasn't
looking :-)


If it's any comfort I ride a circa 1982 steel frame road bike,
down tube shifters, changed from 2*6 to 2*7 after I crunched
the freehub. I also gave it a 11-32T cassette which is the
maximum the old Shimano 600 derailer was willing to stomach.
52/42 up front. Still not so ideal for some of the hills here
but suits me well.

I find that the terrain seems to be the deciding factor. In
Bangkok, essentially flat, I find down tube shifters to be just
the thing and make maybe two or three gear changes a ride. In
Phuket, which is essentially a mountain sticking out of the water
I use a 3 x 10 setup and on most days will use nearly all the
gears.


That would be my dream set-up but one can't have everything. By the
time I'd have changed all that plus brifters and stuff I might as
well buy a whole new bike. And then my wife would want me to get
rid of this one which I can't do (yet).

[...]

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Shoulder width or a bit wider was needed when bicyclists were riding
bicycles with short cockpits and their knees came up between their
elbows when the bicyclist was riding in the drops.


I guess my frame is long enough because I am over 6' tall and ride in
the drops occasionally. Max 5% of the time though, getting too old in my
back for more. There is never interference.

However, the narrow handle bar has another drawback I just found out. I
can't mount the new MP3 player (with speaker) on there or I'd take away
too much grip area up top. So unless I switch to a wider bar I'll have
to build some sort of steerer tube mount for that. Bicycles have
surprisingly little options when it comes to mounting additional gizmos.
On long boring uphill slogs that little MP3 player is nice.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Pockets are very useful for putting MP3 players in.

Cheers

On 2016-05-21 13:03, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 3:39:46 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-05-21 12:28, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 11:34:19 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-05-20 21:32, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 20 May 2016 15:35:55 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2016-05-19 20:34, John B. wrote:


[...]


I even came across an article "Race Back in Time at L'Eroica"
a story about riding a steel frame bicycle that had toe clips
and down tube shifters while wearing a wool jersey.

(I think that old age has crept up behind me when I wasn't
looking :-)


If it's any comfort I ride a circa 1982 steel frame road bike,
down tube shifters, changed from 2*6 to 2*7 after I crunched
the freehub. I also gave it a 11-32T cassette which is the
maximum the old Shimano 600 derailer was willing to stomach.
52/42 up front. Still not so ideal for some of the hills here
but suits me well.

I find that the terrain seems to be the deciding factor. In
Bangkok, essentially flat, I find down tube shifters to be just
the thing and make maybe two or three gear changes a ride. In
Phuket, which is essentially a mountain sticking out of the water
I use a 3 x 10 setup and on most days will use nearly all the
gears.


That would be my dream set-up but one can't have everything. By the
time I'd have changed all that plus brifters and stuff I might as
well buy a whole new bike. And then my wife would want me to get
rid of this one which I can't do (yet).

[...]

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Shoulder width or a bit wider was needed when bicyclists were riding
bicycles with short cockpits and their knees came up between their
elbows when the bicyclist was riding in the drops.


I guess my frame is long enough because I am over 6' tall and ride in
the drops occasionally. Max 5% of the time though, getting too old in my
back for more. There is never interference.

However, the narrow handle bar has another drawback I just found out. I
can't mount the new MP3 player (with speaker) on there or I'd take away
too much grip area up top. So unless I switch to a wider bar I'll have
to build some sort of steerer tube mount for that. Bicycles have
surprisingly little options when it comes to mounting additional gizmos.
On long boring uphill slogs that little MP3 player is nice.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Pockets are very useful for putting MP3 players in.


My T-shirts don't have pockets and it wouldn't work anyhow because it's
this kind, with speaker:

http://myivation.com/index.php/ivati...h-speaker.html

It is about the size of the cardboard drum inside a toilet paper roll
and has remarkably good sound. I do not like to wear any plugs in my
ears and AFAIK that would also be illegal here.

The rubber strap that comes with it is too flimsy.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/