A real reason for gravel bikes?

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 7:27:28 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 18:29:23 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 3:47:53 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/18/2020 5:08 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 14:36:28 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

“In 10 years, we’re going to start turning roads back into gravel� if
nothing changes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html

As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more
miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed
for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead
of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding
from one county into another.

Are roads in the U.S. really as bad as described here? I grew up in
New England, went to school in Florida, lived in a number of states
including Ohio, Texas, Louisiana, California and Maine, drove coast to
coast a couple of times and while I wouldn't say that all the roads
were as smooth as a billiard table I would say that they were pretty
damned good.

Granted I left the U.S. in 1972 but have U.S. roads deteriorate from
"pretty damned good" to the wilderness of chuck holes that I see
described here?
--
cheers,

John B.


I'm also of the glass-half-full school on that. Are there
roads in poor repair? Sure. But there are long term
replacement schedules which can be reviewed at your State
DOT web site.

Example- WI Hwy 19 from Springfield Corners to Mazomanie, a
road I use weekly, was about 1/4 literally AWOL. With an
oncoming milk truck, the best technique was to pull over
where possible and stop because two vehicles couldn't pass
in large sections. That was rebuilt in 2018 and is now an
absolute joy.

#2- WI Hwy 60 in front of our building is being replaced
this year. Sure it needs help, but I'm much less excited
because this will involve an assessment and months of dust.

#3- The loudest bitching about the Governor and road
maintenance usually centers on condition of city streets and
township roads which are not his problem. I don't much care
for The Current Occupant in the statehouse either but let's
hang him for his own sins.

And then there are bridges. I go over this one to see my brother. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVSTcKLJ5gw From above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOmnC05Ou7w It's scary narrow, and its scheduled to be replaced as soon as the bridge toll piggy bank is full.

Looks like a normal two lane bridge built for trucks and automobiles,
one lane each way. What more could one want?

Well, I could want lanes that were not scaled for Model Ts and could do without a metal deck that steers the car (particularly with the usual high wind), and I could want a bridge that allows bicycles, but apart from that, nothing.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 3:23:33 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 3:41:10 PM UTC-6, Tom Kunich wrote:

This is interesting. Why do you suppose they went from very good roads during the Presidency of Eisenhower to the slow degradation of roads since?


????? Eisenhower was in office about 70 years ago. He started the national Interstate road system. Based upon the road network he observed in Germany during World War 2. In the 1950s there was not two cars for every single human being. There was not as many roads. The car culture had not become the meaning of the USA yet. There were also less people. Now there are 330 million people in the USA. People who consume stuff. People who buy stuff. People who need stores to sell them stuff. Stores that need roads to haul all the stuff to the store. Stores that need heavy semi trucks to haul the stuff. Heavy semis that destroy the roads. 70 years of heavy trucks on roads destroy the roads and eventually they need to be replaced. How many cars built during Eisenhower's reign do you see being driven today? None. They all wore out. And the roads have to be replaced too.

And most of these 330 Million citizens are all paying to maintain a road system that is not being maintained. I can't put pictures on here or I could show you roads that you could hardly believe.

Even worse now, Google will redirect traffic onto poorly made backroads that were made to only service farm traffic. This very heavy traffic is ruining the roads. Why shouldn't Google be taxed to repair the roads that they are ruining?

Riding up Redwood Road yesterday I was passed by an almost continuous stream of traffic. This road was supposed to provide access to two parks, not commute traffic.

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 3:57:06 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 1:41:10 PM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 1:22:44 PM UTC-8, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 February 2020 16:12:43 UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 8:36:32 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
“In 10 years, we’re going to start turning roads back into gravel� if
nothing changes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html

As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more
miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed
for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead
of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding
from one county into another.


I can't complain about the condition of our country roads. They are well maintained compared to Germany and Belgium were I ride also frequently especially Germany. The roads in Belgium are awful. There are no borders anymore but as soon as you cross the invisible Belgium border you now immidiately you are in Belgium. Your fillings are rattling out of your teeth.

Lou
--
- Frank Krygowski

That's exactly what Duane says about riding from Quebec to Ontario Canada.

Cheers

This is interesting. Why do you suppose they went from very good roads during the Presidency of Eisenhower to the slow degradation of roads since? They are continually asking for additional taxes for road repairs. People, sick of the poor roads comply and pass these taxes and nothing seems to ever come of them. I noted road repairs after the last gas tax increase - in one rich neighborhood that had good roads to begin with.

Eisenhower was the interstate system and not county roads, but existing roads were better 60 years ago -- in large part because they were 60 years newer.

Apart from graft and the usual inefficiencies in road building and repair, road maintenance budgets are stretched because of lost gas tax revenues, competition with other public transportation modes, new road construction -- and just a lot of roads to maintain.

I'll defer to SMS on this, but it is my understanding that funding for local road construction can come from a lot of sources (state and local bonds, local option taxes, gas tax, etc.), but maintenance may have fewer funding sources or a lower priority over existing sources. When a county gets a nice new rural road, it can be like getting a free Bugatti. It gets a hot new car but can't afford the $21,000 oil change. And if a county is building a lot of new roads, its funding sources may be tapped, and it has nothing left for maintenance -- and then it has even more roads to maintain. One reason why roads are going to hell is because there are so many new roads.

-- Jay Beattie.

There is a reason that the greater part of Oregon wants to succeed and become a part of Greater Idaho.

On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 8:30:57 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 6:47:53 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/18/2020 5:08 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 14:36:28 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

“In 10 years, we’re going to start turning roads back into gravel� if
nothing changes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html

As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more
miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed
for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead
of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding
from one county into another.

Are roads in the U.S. really as bad as described here? I grew up in
New England, went to school in Florida, lived in a number of states
including Ohio, Texas, Louisiana, California and Maine, drove coast to
coast a couple of times and while I wouldn't say that all the roads
were as smooth as a billiard table I would say that they were pretty
damned good.

Granted I left the U.S. in 1972 but have U.S. roads deteriorate from
"pretty damned good" to the wilderness of chuck holes that I see
described here?
--
cheers,

John B.


I'm also of the glass-half-full school on that. Are there
roads in poor repair? Sure. But there are long term
replacement schedules which can be reviewed at your State
DOT web site.

Example- WI Hwy 19 from Springfield Corners to Mazomanie, a
road I use weekly, was about 1/4 literally AWOL. With an
oncoming milk truck, the best technique was to pull over
where possible and stop because two vehicles couldn't pass
in large sections. That was rebuilt in 2018 and is now an
absolute joy.

#2- WI Hwy 60 in front of our building is being replaced
this year. Sure it needs help, but I'm much less excited
because this will involve an assessment and months of dust.

#3- The loudest bitching about the Governor and road
maintenance usually centers on condition of city streets and
township roads which are not his problem. I don't much care
for The Current Occupant in the statehouse either but let's
hang him for his own sins.

As I've stated, I ride and drive on U.S. highways, state highways, on, county roads, on township roads, on city and village streets. All
have different financing systems. I think most get funds from a mix
of sources; for example, local projects often get some state or
federal help.

One problem that's upcoming is the expected drop in gasoline sales
due to electric and hybrid cars. I know a person who recently bought
an electric car, and was surprised to find the licensing fees are
much higher than a gas car, supposedly to help make up that deficit.

I may need to change my attitude, and write thank you notes to the
dudes who buy huge pickup trucks.

- Frank Krygowski

Frank - eight and then six years ago the taxpayers in California passes a 12 cent gas tax increase.. This makes a total of about 45 cents of so. California fuel use is way down - only about 5 million gallons a month for gasoline alone. They also tax diesel more and they even have aviation fuel taxes..

With a yearly income of something like $27 Million you'd expect to see SOME road repairs. The main street in Oakland - Broadway - was literally gravel before they refinished it. Other than that the only other repairs I'd seen is the re-paving of a street in the rich part of town that didn't need it.

They are patching roads here and there by pouring hot tar into the largest cracks. Now large parts of Northern California also want to become part of Greater Idaho.

It's pretty simple - put a liberal in charge of a penny and he will break it.

On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 7:44:15 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 8:30:57 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 6:47:53 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/18/2020 5:08 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 14:36:28 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

“In 10 years, we’re going to start turning roads back into gravel� if
nothing changes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html

As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more
miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed
for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead
of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding
from one county into another.

Are roads in the U.S. really as bad as described here? I grew up in
New England, went to school in Florida, lived in a number of states
including Ohio, Texas, Louisiana, California and Maine, drove coast to
coast a couple of times and while I wouldn't say that all the roads
were as smooth as a billiard table I would say that they were pretty
damned good.

Granted I left the U.S. in 1972 but have U.S. roads deteriorate from
"pretty damned good" to the wilderness of chuck holes that I see
described here?
--
cheers,

John B.


I'm also of the glass-half-full school on that. Are there
roads in poor repair? Sure. But there are long term
replacement schedules which can be reviewed at your State
DOT web site.

Example- WI Hwy 19 from Springfield Corners to Mazomanie, a
road I use weekly, was about 1/4 literally AWOL. With an
oncoming milk truck, the best technique was to pull over
where possible and stop because two vehicles couldn't pass
in large sections. That was rebuilt in 2018 and is now an
absolute joy.

#2- WI Hwy 60 in front of our building is being replaced
this year. Sure it needs help, but I'm much less excited
because this will involve an assessment and months of dust.

#3- The loudest bitching about the Governor and road
maintenance usually centers on condition of city streets and
township roads which are not his problem. I don't much care
for The Current Occupant in the statehouse either but let's
hang him for his own sins.

As I've stated, I ride and drive on U.S. highways, state highways, on, county roads, on township roads, on city and village streets. All
have different financing systems. I think most get funds from a mix
of sources; for example, local projects often get some state or
federal help.

One problem that's upcoming is the expected drop in gasoline sales
due to electric and hybrid cars. I know a person who recently bought
an electric car, and was surprised to find the licensing fees are
much higher than a gas car, supposedly to help make up that deficit.

I may need to change my attitude, and write thank you notes to the
dudes who buy huge pickup trucks.

- Frank Krygowski

Frank - eight and then six years ago the taxpayers in California passes a 12 cent gas tax increase.. This makes a total of about 45 cents of so. California fuel use is way down - only about 5 million gallons a month for gasoline alone. They also tax diesel more and they even have aviation fuel taxes.

With a yearly income of something like $27 Million you'd expect to see SOME road repairs. The main street in Oakland - Broadway - was literally gravel before they refinished it. Other than that the only other repairs I'd seen is the re-paving of a street in the rich part of town that didn't need it.

On 2/19/2020 9:44 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 8:30:57 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 6:47:53 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/18/2020 5:08 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 14:36:28 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

“In 10 years, we’re going to start turning roads back into gravel� if
nothing changes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html

As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more
miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed
for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead
of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding
from one county into another.

Are roads in the U.S. really as bad as described here? I grew up in
New England, went to school in Florida, lived in a number of states
including Ohio, Texas, Louisiana, California and Maine, drove coast to
coast a couple of times and while I wouldn't say that all the roads
were as smooth as a billiard table I would say that they were pretty
damned good.

Granted I left the U.S. in 1972 but have U.S. roads deteriorate from
"pretty damned good" to the wilderness of chuck holes that I see
described here?
--
cheers,

John B.


I'm also of the glass-half-full school on that. Are there
roads in poor repair? Sure. But there are long term
replacement schedules which can be reviewed at your State
DOT web site.

Example- WI Hwy 19 from Springfield Corners to Mazomanie, a
road I use weekly, was about 1/4 literally AWOL. With an
oncoming milk truck, the best technique was to pull over
where possible and stop because two vehicles couldn't pass
in large sections. That was rebuilt in 2018 and is now an
absolute joy.

#2- WI Hwy 60 in front of our building is being replaced
this year. Sure it needs help, but I'm much less excited
because this will involve an assessment and months of dust.

#3- The loudest bitching about the Governor and road
maintenance usually centers on condition of city streets and
township roads which are not his problem. I don't much care
for The Current Occupant in the statehouse either but let's
hang him for his own sins.

As I've stated, I ride and drive on U.S. highways, state highways, on, county roads, on township roads, on city and village streets. All
have different financing systems. I think most get funds from a mix
of sources; for example, local projects often get some state or
federal help.

One problem that's upcoming is the expected drop in gasoline sales
due to electric and hybrid cars. I know a person who recently bought
an electric car, and was surprised to find the licensing fees are
much higher than a gas car, supposedly to help make up that deficit.

I may need to change my attitude, and write thank you notes to the
dudes who buy huge pickup trucks.

- Frank Krygowski

Frank - eight and then six years ago the taxpayers in California passes a 12 cent gas tax increase.. This makes a total of about 45 cents of so. California fuel use is way down - only about 5 million gallons a month for gasoline alone. They also tax diesel more and they even have aviation fuel taxes.

With a yearly income of something like $27 Million you'd expect to see SOME road repairs. The main street in Oakland - Broadway - was literally gravel before they refinished it. Other than that the only other repairs I'd seen is the re-paving of a street in the rich part of town that didn't need it.

They are patching roads here and there by pouring hot tar into the largest cracks. Now large parts of Northern California also want to become part of Greater Idaho.

It's pretty simple - put a liberal in charge of a penny and he will break it.


I'm not saying the contractors or the politicians are honest
or well meaning, but it actually is complex. When fully
rebuilding a city street/avenue, the project usually starts
with a 15~20 foot trench to replace water/sewer/gas pipes.
(as with the 100-year old gas line explosion with multiple
fatalities near you. And every city loses significant water
and sewer to chronic leaks) Commonly now, the project also
includes electricity/fiber with underground vaults plus
traffic signal/streetlight connections. Each item has its
own details, foibles, budget, engineers, crews, equipment
and schedule. And all of it moves at a snail's pace with
multiple 'impact studies' (often used as leverage for
kickbacks).

'Simple' is the only word which does not apply here.

p.s. $27 million? I laugh at your pathetic number. That's
barely enough to buy a few county board votes. CalTrans
says their annual road budget is $4.5 billion (plus the
****holes of trains, bicycle paths and so on)

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2/19/2020 9:44 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 7:27:28 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 18:29:23 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:


And then there are bridges. I go over this one to see my brother. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVSTcKLJ5gw From above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOmnC05Ou7w It's scary narrow, and its scheduled to be replaced as soon as the bridge toll piggy bank is full.

Looks like a normal two lane bridge built for trucks and automobiles,
one lane each way. What more could one want?

Well, I could want lanes that were not scaled for Model Ts and could do without a metal deck that steers the car (particularly with the usual high wind), and I could want a bridge that allows bicycles, but apart from that, nothing.

Speaking of metal decks: There's a suspension bridge over the Ohio River
that I used to use for a ride I led - a toll bridge, 5 cents per bike.
(I very generously paid for everyone on the ride.)

https://bridgehunter.com/wv/hancock/newell/

The open steel deck gave a nice view of the water maybe 50 feet below.
It gave me a feeling of flying. Looking down as I rode, the height
wasn't really apparent until I got to the support towers, or to the
banks on the north. Those provided a sense of scale and a little shiver
of excitement.

One or two of my friends found riding it too scary. They used the
sidewalk instead.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 8:44:43 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 7:44:15 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 8:30:57 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 6:47:53 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/18/2020 5:08 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 14:36:28 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

“In 10 years, we’re going to start turning roads back into gravel� if
nothing changes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html

As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more
miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed
for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead
of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding
from one county into another.

Are roads in the U.S. really as bad as described here? I grew up in
New England, went to school in Florida, lived in a number of states
including Ohio, Texas, Louisiana, California and Maine, drove coast to
coast a couple of times and while I wouldn't say that all the roads
were as smooth as a billiard table I would say that they were pretty
damned good.

Granted I left the U.S. in 1972 but have U.S. roads deteriorate from
"pretty damned good" to the wilderness of chuck holes that I see
described here?
--
cheers,

John B.


I'm also of the glass-half-full school on that. Are there
roads in poor repair? Sure. But there are long term
replacement schedules which can be reviewed at your State
DOT web site.

Example- WI Hwy 19 from Springfield Corners to Mazomanie, a
road I use weekly, was about 1/4 literally AWOL. With an
oncoming milk truck, the best technique was to pull over
where possible and stop because two vehicles couldn't pass
in large sections. That was rebuilt in 2018 and is now an
absolute joy.

#2- WI Hwy 60 in front of our building is being replaced
this year. Sure it needs help, but I'm much less excited
because this will involve an assessment and months of dust.

#3- The loudest bitching about the Governor and road
maintenance usually centers on condition of city streets and
township roads which are not his problem. I don't much care
for The Current Occupant in the statehouse either but let's
hang him for his own sins.

As I've stated, I ride and drive on U.S. highways, state highways, on, county roads, on township roads, on city and village streets. All
have different financing systems. I think most get funds from a mix
of sources; for example, local projects often get some state or
federal help.

One problem that's upcoming is the expected drop in gasoline sales
due to electric and hybrid cars. I know a person who recently bought
an electric car, and was surprised to find the licensing fees are
much higher than a gas car, supposedly to help make up that deficit.

I may need to change my attitude, and write thank you notes to the
dudes who buy huge pickup trucks.

- Frank Krygowski

Frank - eight and then six years ago the taxpayers in California passes a 12 cent gas tax increase.. This makes a total of about 45 cents of so. California fuel use is way down - only about 5 million gallons a month for gasoline alone. They also tax diesel more and they even have aviation fuel taxes.

With a yearly income of something like $27 Million you'd expect to see SOME road repairs. The main street in Oakland - Broadway - was literally gravel before they refinished it. Other than that the only other repairs I'd seen is the re-paving of a street in the rich part of town that didn't need it.

They are patching roads here and there by pouring hot tar into the largest cracks. Now large parts of Northern California also want to become part of Greater Idaho.

WTF? Large parts of Northern California are idiots. Look at a map. How about they want to become part of Greater Nevada . . . or Oregon.

BTW, large parts of I-84 in Idaho drive like chipseal, and there are some nasty concrete sections. Taxes are low, and you get what you pay for. https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/lo...2-6b28798fe1b2 IMO, Oregon and Utah have better roads.

-- Jay Beattie.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...ehP?li=BBnb7Kz

On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 9:20:08 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/19/2020 9:44 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 8:30:57 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 6:47:53 PM UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/18/2020 5:08 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 14:36:28 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

“In 10 years, we’re going to start turning roads back into gravel†if
nothing changes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/b...sin-roads.html

As I've mentioned, Ohio has 88 counties. Some, like mine, have many more
miles of county roads than do others. But the state's funds distributed
for county road maintenence gives each county 1/88 of the total instead
of giving on a per-mile basis. I frequently see the effects when riding
from one county into another.

Are roads in the U.S. really as bad as described here? I grew up in
New England, went to school in Florida, lived in a number of states
including Ohio, Texas, Louisiana, California and Maine, drove coast to
coast a couple of times and while I wouldn't say that all the roads
were as smooth as a billiard table I would say that they were pretty
damned good.

Granted I left the U.S. in 1972 but have U.S. roads deteriorate from
"pretty damned good" to the wilderness of chuck holes that I see
described here?
--
cheers,

John B.


I'm also of the glass-half-full school on that. Are there
roads in poor repair? Sure. But there are long term
replacement schedules which can be reviewed at your State
DOT web site.

Example- WI Hwy 19 from Springfield Corners to Mazomanie, a
road I use weekly, was about 1/4 literally AWOL. With an
oncoming milk truck, the best technique was to pull over
where possible and stop because two vehicles couldn't pass
in large sections. That was rebuilt in 2018 and is now an
absolute joy.

#2- WI Hwy 60 in front of our building is being replaced
this year. Sure it needs help, but I'm much less excited
because this will involve an assessment and months of dust.

#3- The loudest bitching about the Governor and road
maintenance usually centers on condition of city streets and
township roads which are not his problem. I don't much care
for The Current Occupant in the statehouse either but let's
hang him for his own sins.

As I've stated, I ride and drive on U.S. highways, state highways, on, county roads, on township roads, on city and village streets. All
have different financing systems. I think most get funds from a mix
of sources; for example, local projects often get some state or
federal help.

One problem that's upcoming is the expected drop in gasoline sales
due to electric and hybrid cars. I know a person who recently bought
an electric car, and was surprised to find the licensing fees are
much higher than a gas car, supposedly to help make up that deficit.

I may need to change my attitude, and write thank you notes to the
dudes who buy huge pickup trucks.

- Frank Krygowski

Frank - eight and then six years ago the taxpayers in California passes a 12 cent gas tax increase.. This makes a total of about 45 cents of so. California fuel use is way down - only about 5 million gallons a month for gasoline alone. They also tax diesel more and they even have aviation fuel taxes.

With a yearly income of something like $27 Million you'd expect to see SOME road repairs. The main street in Oakland - Broadway - was literally gravel before they refinished it. Other than that the only other repairs I'd seen is the re-paving of a street in the rich part of town that didn't need it.

They are patching roads here and there by pouring hot tar into the largest cracks. Now large parts of Northern California also want to become part of Greater Idaho.

It's pretty simple - put a liberal in charge of a penny and he will break it.


I'm not saying the contractors or the politicians are honest
or well meaning, but it actually is complex. When fully
rebuilding a city street/avenue, the project usually starts
with a 15~20 foot trench to replace water/sewer/gas pipes.
(as with the 100-year old gas line explosion with multiple
fatalities near you. And every city loses significant water
and sewer to chronic leaks) Commonly now, the project also
includes electricity/fiber with underground vaults plus
traffic signal/streetlight connections. Each item has its
own details, foibles, budget, engineers, crews, equipment
and schedule. And all of it moves at a snail's pace with
multiple 'impact studies' (often used as leverage for
kickbacks).

'Simple' is the only word which does not apply here.

p.s. $27 million? I laugh at your pathetic number. That's
barely enough to buy a few county board votes. CalTrans
says their annual road budget is $4.5 billion (plus the
****holes of trains, bicycle paths and so on)

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Well, I suppose they did replace a 3 block section of road adjacent to my home. This was a truck route since there are several trucking forms within a half mile of my home. I noticed them doing this when the trucks, instead of going the opposite way on an industrial route, came directly through the NO TRUCKS sign and though out neighborhood breaking the asphalt up and turning at least one road into nearly gravel. This was entirely unnecessary and the police could have easily stopped it. But they don't.

The town of Moraga has three exits. One goes up a very crooked road in the Redwoods, another past St. Mary's College and a third towards the town of Orinda and the Freeway. The road to Orinda opened a HUGE sinkhole that shut that road down. The intelligent thing for Trucks to do would be to go down past St. Mary's and connect with the Freeways in that manner. Instead they went over the road into the Redwoods. This broke down the bridge over a small creek. This was five years ago and the temporary bridge is still there and trucks are STILL crossing that "MAX LOAD 5 TONES" bridge with 10 ton trucks. The road on the other side is pushed into the group in places and broken up in others. Again, all it would have taken is a cop stationed there to prevent all of this damage but no such thing. The TRAFFIC fines in this area could have paid for all of the repair work and still they do not do a thing. I don't understand what the hell is going on in the city fathers' minds. In the meantime the road up through the Redwoods is crumbling and soon will no longer be a possible escape route in case of earthquake, fire or flood (the town is 10 or more feet below an adjoining reservoir. Pinehurst Rd. through the Redwoods is the only elevated escape route.

Plainly the thought processes of the average government is far below that of the normal bicyclist. Even those who think that faster is better. I even had a guy pass me in the opposite direction while I was on an 8% climb yesterday shout "Hi Al". I returned his greeting and tried my hardest to look like an Al.

On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 9:29:26 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/19/2020 9:44 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, February 18, 2020 at 7:27:28 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 18:29:23 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:


And then there are bridges. I go over this one to see my brother. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVSTcKLJ5gw From above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOmnC05Ou7w It's scary narrow, and its scheduled to be replaced as soon as the bridge toll piggy bank is full.

Looks like a normal two lane bridge built for trucks and automobiles,
one lane each way. What more could one want?

Well, I could want lanes that were not scaled for Model Ts and could do without a metal deck that steers the car (particularly with the usual high wind), and I could want a bridge that allows bicycles, but apart from that, nothing.

Speaking of metal decks: There's a suspension bridge over the Ohio River
that I used to use for a ride I led - a toll bridge, 5 cents per bike.
(I very generously paid for everyone on the ride.)

https://bridgehunter.com/wv/hancock/newell/

The open steel deck gave a nice view of the water maybe 50 feet below.
It gave me a feeling of flying. Looking down as I rode, the height
wasn't really apparent until I got to the support towers, or to the
banks on the north. Those provided a sense of scale and a little shiver
of excitement.

One or two of my friends found riding it too scary. They used the
sidewalk instead.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Several local bridges across the Oakland estuary have metal gratings. I have used them several times but not when I'm riding with people because I don't know what their reactions would be. Actually it rides well enough though I don't know what would happen if you had to veer or brake hard. Since they have traffic lights on one side or the other I can usually cross without traffic so I'm not put in such a position.